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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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Old
04-24-2011, 02:01 PM
  #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
agreed.


also dont be surprised if Fedotenko will be brought back. Torts played him alot in the playoffs. i wouldnt mind it. he played well for the rangers this year.
He's one of like 8 untouchables at this point. HAVE to bring him back. He was in the top 5 best looking every game.

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04-24-2011, 02:10 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Blue Line Monster View Post
Yep, and also Dan Bylsma..

I'm pretty meh on Torts. Not sure why people think he did such an amazing job..

I think people just like to see a lot of blocked shots and don't care that other coaches did more with less..
I don't know, Bylsma had Crosby and Malkin for half a season, once they went down Staal returned. And they have a seasoned and capable defense. Great puck movement from their blueline. The run Crosby had for 41 games was more than enough to put them near the top of the conference.

I actually like the comparision to the Pens. A little more experience back there and a puck mover and I think we're in their range. Fleury and Lundqvist are equals at the least. I think our depth at forward is better but there is no equalizer for their first line talent.

We're not many moves off, its just the players we need are hard to come by.

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Old
04-24-2011, 02:13 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
How would it be looked at as bad?
Aging player with concussion history, could never play an important game for us while making a ton of money. Just look at our signing history under Sather, so much potential ON PAPER.

Richards is nowhere near the final piece to making this team a legit contender, without knowing the final pieces along with Richards I can't say this is a great move or not. I do know Sather's history the last 20 years, and its been awful yet arrogantly cocky.

The way everyone is talking about adding Richards I not only expect the playoffs next season but won't accept anything else but conference finals, next level baby

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04-24-2011, 02:40 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Which is good or bad depending on how you look at it.



I can't say that for certain after what I witnessed all season long.

And also, I'd love to get a coach who knows how to handle the lack of talent and injuries instead of using it as an excuse. Example, Dave Tippett seem to do just nicely this year.
Because getting into the playoffs with Brian Boyle as one of your main producers for much of the season isn't handling it?

Keith Yandle himself has more talent than anybody on this team except Hank.

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04-24-2011, 02:43 PM
  #930
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And yeah let's go hire Dave Tippet and Dan Bylsma.

Oh wait, they already have jobs.

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04-24-2011, 02:56 PM
  #931
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Dave Tippets team also got swept out of the playoffs pretty easily.

The grass is always greener until you win something and then you can start talking about how so and so has regressed and how the team needs new blood, etc etc

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Old
04-24-2011, 02:56 PM
  #932
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Glad Torts was extended. A little continuity goes a long way in achieving sustained success.

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Old
04-24-2011, 02:56 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by lovetherangers View Post
Lighten up francis, its a joke. Thought it was pretty obvious.
I am lightened up. Just stating my opinion.

I'm happy Torts is going to be back. I always believe he knows what he's doing and he's doing it right with the youth. I'm not in favor of seeing young players get fooled around with different systems and whatever.

Of course there's some things that I don't like with Torts, but that's with everybody...

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04-24-2011, 02:57 PM
  #934
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Very good job this year. He deserves the extension.

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Old
04-24-2011, 03:44 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Because getting into the playoffs with Brian Boyle as one of your main producers for much of the season isn't handling it?

Keith Yandle himself has more talent than anybody on this team except Hank.
When you take everything into account we should been a playoff team this year given the actual events that unfolded around our team and the league. If you don't agree, that's fine with me, different perspectives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
And yeah let's go hire Dave Tippet and Dan Bylsma.

Oh wait, they already have jobs.
There are plenty of candidates that have followed in their footsteps waiting for the chance, those two are just examples of coaches who make the best with what they have. They also have brought along as much young talent as Torts, which also doesnt get mentioned in regards to the job they're doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Dave Tippets team also got swept out of the playoffs pretty easily.

The grass is always greener until you win something and then you can start talking about how so and so has regressed and how the team needs new blood, etc etc
Tippett has done amazing things with one of the lowest payrolls(only one other team in the bottom half of NHL payrolls even made the playoffs) and leading the league in ownership problems, I find it pretty weak of you to blast him for getting ousted by a much deeper Wings team.

5 on 5 the Yotes couldnt match the Wings, scored 4 even strength goals in 4 games and Bryzgalov was nothing like himself in the series if you cared to watch any of it. PP was clicking at 55% after game 1 which is pretty damn good. And he's forced to ride just as many young guys as Torts, so results were pretty much the same.

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Old
04-24-2011, 03:50 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Dave Tippets team also got swept out of the playoffs pretty easily.

The grass is always greener until you win something and then you can start talking about how so and so has regressed and how the team needs new blood, etc etc
When it comes to the NY Rangers you never know. It's hard to make comparisons when some people thrive where ever they go but can't hack it in NY. Not saying Tippet wouldn't be able too, just saying.

Whether you hate Torts or not (like JR was saying on VS last night), he's extremely passionate about his job (which sometimes can work against him in the media capital).

I too agree with Zipay, who claimed "the team overachieved." This offense is deplorable. Not one player reached the 55pt mark during the season but they get into the playoffs because the players are working their tails off.

That's a pretty good reflection on not only Tortorella, but the whole staff (not to mention the players like Girardi, Prust and Cally who set the example for teammates every night, that you don't need to have great skills to stay in this league and help your team win).

That's what scares me the most about some of these contracts Dolan/Sather are willing to shell out with nmc's (I'm sure there are plenty of nyr fans who are ambivalent about whether or not the Rangers should obtain Richards).

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Old
04-24-2011, 04:32 PM
  #937
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Happy to see Torts stay. He did a good job this season

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Old
04-24-2011, 04:42 PM
  #938
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Did Torts get the players to overachive? Quite possible.

No matter what, with the way our players played; with the way Dubi, Cally, Staal, Girardi, Boyle, Sauer, McD, Prust, Fedetenkot and co played; with Hank, Gabby and co, no freakin way we "overachived" to get into the PO's. Thats just not in touch with reality. Look around us in the standings. What team should have been ahead of us? And do not start with the injuries crap -- some teams with a lot bigger problems then us finnished ahead of us in the standings.

This roster is easily stronger and the roster we had the last time we got into the PO's, if we overachived a lot this year that team must have been heads and shoulders above the 1980's US Olympic team... Seriously.

On some it sounds like we are a "real 1st line center" from being a PO contender. Solid top 8 team. Thats the biggest jokes on all of hfboards. If we could add one real 1st line center to this team we will have as good a roster as you ever can get in the NHL with a cap.

We need a better team. No doubt.

Many of the players we have need to do a better job. Or the coach must be able to get more out of them (Gabby comes to mind for sure).

But the coach must also do a better job. No doubt. To say that he was like "amazing" this season is BS. We should have been a 6th+ if everyone was reasonably healthy. Now we had a lot of injuries and finnished 8th. Thats ok. At the same time we got off to a very good start and I kind of think that with the start we got off to, with the way some players stepped up, we shouldn't have struggled as much to get in to the PO's as we did, even with the injuries, but thats my opinion. Its fair to say that we got a ok result in the regular season.

In the PO's, I think we should have been able to give a team like the Caps a good run. But then Cally was hurt, and I can't really complain on how we played them. I just don't think they were any good, but without Cally and the bad losses we had, we really had no chance and Torts shouldn't get any heat for that.

But no way jose can we call this season a amazing coaching effort and expect to ever win a cup if this is the bar we set for out coach. Torts need to improve too.

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04-24-2011, 04:50 PM
  #939
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I dont think they overachieved. They pretty much did the same thing they did last year. Except they got in on the last day of the season. I think most fans had them finishing somewhere between the 7th-9th seed.

Torts did do a nice job this season he deserves the extension.


Last edited by XLJ: 04-24-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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Old
04-24-2011, 04:57 PM
  #940
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Excellent stuff Ola

Now that the season is done and we might not be on here as much just wanted to publicly say thanks for all your posting throughout the year, one of my go to guys for so many years on this board. You and a few others make this place worth coming to, don't let the sproutlings who post every thought keep you away from here

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Old
04-24-2011, 05:21 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Aging player with concussion history, could never play an important game for us while making a ton of money. Just look at our signing history under Sather, so much potential ON PAPER.

Richards is nowhere near the final piece to making this team a legit contender, without knowing the final pieces along with Richards I can't say this is a great move or not. I do know Sather's history the last 20 years, and its been awful yet arrogantly cocky.

The way everyone is talking about adding Richards I not only expect the playoffs next season but won't accept anything else but conference finals, next level baby
Richards on this team doesn't guarantee anything other than we have a first line center to play with gaborik who can pass to him and keep up with him, Brad can score between 20-30 goals himself, and he runs our PP. Richards in this lineup adds more goals which equals more wins for a low scoring defense first team. That means instead of fighting for 8th we should get in to the playoffs between the 4th and 6th seed. If this team is healthy and motivated to play 60 minutes, who knows if we win one round or two, but it makes this team better in so many different ways. Until we fix our PP and either get someone who can play with Gaborik and make him an elite player again or trade him and go all youth it is impossible to say what the limit is for this team.

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Old
04-24-2011, 05:26 PM
  #942
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I'm fine with it. I like JT's mentality and how he leans on the youth movement. There aren't many other solid candidates available out there anyway.

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Old
04-24-2011, 05:41 PM
  #943
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im not a torts guy at all but hes been much better this year and ive said so many times. he was calmer, less confrontational and more in control. his player played hard for him and that says alot.

he gave the young guys prime time minutes. sauer, mcd and stepan all developed and produced.

extending him makes sense as he has, im sure, a 5 year plan for this team and so hes got unfinished business. this team made strides this year. imo, he earned an extension.

still not convinced that gaby and hank love him and get along and i dont like his underlying distrust of euros.

and lastly, who ever was in charge of the pp should be terminated immediately. lets get the pp fixed for next season please.

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04-24-2011, 05:50 PM
  #944
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and lastly, who ever was in charge of the pp should be terminated immediately. lets get the pp fixed for next season please.
Yes. The PP ended up biting us in the rear end too many times. Especially during the playoffs. Watching that crap was painful.

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Old
04-24-2011, 06:25 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Did Torts get the players to overachive? Quite possible.

No matter what, with the way our players played; with the way Dubi, Cally, Staal, Girardi, Boyle, Sauer, McD, Prust, Fedetenkot and co played; with Hank, Gabby and co, no freakin way we "overachived" to get into the PO's. Thats just not in touch with reality. Look around us in the standings. What team should have been ahead of us? And do not start with the injuries crap -- some teams with a lot bigger problems then us finnished ahead of us in the standings.

This roster is easily stronger and the roster we had the last time we got into the PO's, if we overachived a lot this year that team must have been heads and shoulders above the 1980's US Olympic team... Seriously.

On some it sounds like we are a "real 1st line center" from being a PO contender. Solid top 8 team. Thats the biggest jokes on all of hfboards. If we could add one real 1st line center to this team we will have as good a roster as you ever can get in the NHL with a cap.

We need a better team. No doubt.

Many of the players we have need to do a better job. Or the coach must be able to get more out of them (Gabby comes to mind for sure).

But the coach must also do a better job. No doubt. To say that he was like "amazing" this season is BS. We should have been a 6th+ if everyone was reasonably healthy. Now we had a lot of injuries and finnished 8th. Thats ok. At the same time we got off to a very good start and I kind of think that with the start we got off to, with the way some players stepped up, we shouldn't have struggled as much to get in to the PO's as we did, even with the injuries, but thats my opinion. Its fair to say that we got a ok result in the regular season.

In the PO's, I think we should have been able to give a team like the Caps a good run. But then Cally was hurt, and I can't really complain on how we played them. I just don't think they were any good, but without Cally and the bad losses we had, we really had no chance and Torts shouldn't get any heat for that.

But no way jose can we call this season a amazing coaching effort and expect to ever win a cup if this is the bar we set for out coach. Torts need to improve too.
Quote:
Did Torts get the players to overachive? Quite possible.

No matter what, with the way our players played; with the way Dubi, Cally, Staal, Girardi, Boyle, Sauer, McD, Prust, Fedetenkot and co played; with Hank, Gabby and co, no freakin way we "overachived" to get into the PO's. Thats just not in touch with reality.
It's quite possible Tortorella was responsible for getting the players to overachieve but at the same time "no freakin way we overachieved to get into the playoff's?"

If you're admitting it was possible for Torts to get the players to overachieve with the way our players played (which resulted in the team barely getting into the playoffs), then that in fact, is over achieving (and in touch with reality as well).
So how do we judge, or measure the coaches effort, and where is the bar set, if we're not sure if Tortorella was greatly responsible for the team's effort (or getting the players to overachieve)?
If he was (responsible), the bar should be set much lower than if he wasn't, correct? Right off the bat though, you're admitting that you're not sure.

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Old
04-24-2011, 06:46 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
It's quite possible Tortorella was responsible for getting the players to overachieve but at the same time "no freakin way we overachieved to get into the playoff's?"

If you're admitting it was possible for Torts to get the players to overachieve with the way our players played (which resulted in the team barely getting into the playoffs), then that in fact, is over achieving (and in touch with reality as well).
So how do we judge, or measure the coaches effort, and where is the bar set, if we're not sure if Tortorella was greatly responsible for the team's effort (or getting the players to overachieve)?
If he was (responsible), the bar should be set much lower than if he wasn't, correct? Right off the bat though, you're admitting that you're not sure.
I was a bit confused by the verbage in Ola's post myself.

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Old
04-24-2011, 06:53 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
im not a torts guy at all but hes been much better this year and ive said so many times. he was calmer, less confrontational and more in control. his player played hard for him and that says alot.

he gave the young guys prime time minutes. sauer, mcd and stepan all developed and produced.

extending him makes sense as he has, im sure, a 5 year plan for this team and so hes got unfinished business. this team made strides this year. imo, he earned an extension.

still not convinced that gaby and hank love him and get along and i dont like his underlying distrust of euros.

and lastly, who ever was in charge of the pp should be terminated immediately. lets get the pp fixed for next season please.
I thought Tortorella was in charge of the PP himself?

And I wholly agree with this post, aside from the Euros thing.

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Old
04-24-2011, 07:04 PM
  #948
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I thought Tortorella was in charge of the PP himself?

And I wholly agree with this post, aside from the Euros thing.
It's Sullivan.

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Old
04-24-2011, 07:05 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I thought Tortorella was in charge of the PP himself?

And I wholly agree with this post, aside from the Euros thing.
I thought Sullivan was in charge of the PP, but I don't really care which one of them was, a 3rd coach should be brought in next season to run the PP. I don't care if it's Zubov or Al MacInnis, just someone with experience and who can provide a fresh scheme and use players properly which seems to be an issue. Gaborik, Wolski, Stepan and even McCabe were afraid to shoot on the PP in the playoffs, yet those were the 4 guys getting most of the PP point time in the series, McCabe would get 2 full minutes per PP. Staal, Girardi, Gilroy, and Christensen (yes EC who isn't afraid to shoot from anywhere) should have been given time at the point and told to shoot off passes, shoot low and just get it on net. Hopefully Sather will demand another coach to run the PP is hired, i highly doubt it.

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04-24-2011, 07:28 PM
  #950
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I'm glad Tortorella will stay.

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