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Old
04-25-2011, 09:43 AM
  #26
DUHockey9
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I plan to get my detailed thoughts on paper after the playoffs but my general thoughts are:

Carcillo, Zherdev walk.
I trade Carle and ideally Versteeg to free up some money.
I try to sign a real goalie.
And I find some O'Donnell like signing to ease the loss of Carle. Some cheap, solid bottom pairing guy. (I also wouldn't mind O'Donnell being re-signed as well.)

We'd need to run a more traditional lineup with only 2 scoring lines, but I'm tired of not having a real goalie.

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Old
04-25-2011, 10:05 AM
  #27
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Shake it up. Jeff Carter and Bob to the Kings for Bernier, Stoll, Hickey + pick (Never happen, but a dream). Resign Powe, Carcillo, Leino, Nodl and maybe Zherdev (or find a way to replace him).

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($1.500m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($2.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.850m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Darroll Powe ($0.850m)
Blair Betts ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Sean O'Donnell ($1.000m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.850m)

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,304,761; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,745,239

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04-25-2011, 10:07 AM
  #28
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Anyone who doesn't think this team needs a legit tender is out to lunch....seriously out to lunch.

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04-25-2011, 11:06 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CdnFlyersFan View Post
Anyone who doesn't think this team needs a legit tender is out to lunch....seriously out to lunch.
And anyone who does not see that Jeff Carter is the most valuable asset to get this done.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:08 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
And anyone who does not see that Jeff Carter is the most valuable asset to get this done.
We won't be trading for a goalie this offseason... we need cap space, not a trade chip... and trading Jeff Carter to gain cap space is *ing idiotic.

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04-25-2011, 11:10 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We won't be trading for a goalie this offseason... we need cap space, not a trade chip... and trading Jeff Carter to gain cap space is *ing idiotic.
eye to eye. agree.

My roster makes the most sense... page 1, depending on the Cap increase and what we can get of course.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:12 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
eye to eye. agree.

My roster makes the most sense... page 1, depending on the Cap increase and what we can get of course.
Vokoun is going to be there to be had at a reasonable rate... that's who I would like them to target. Then they can figure out what they want to do about Bob, Boucher, and Leighton. I would prefer Bob in the AHL if they go that route.

We have players that we can lose... Leino and Carle jump immediately to mind. I'm not in favor of moving Versteeg, because I think he complements Richards really well.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:17 AM
  #33
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I'll add "trading Jeff Carter for an unproven goalie" to my list of bad ideas.

So, bad offseason moves:

1) Dropping Timonen
2) Dropping Carter

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:30 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Vokoun is going to be there to be had at a reasonable rate... that's who I would like them to target. Then they can figure out what they want to do about Bob, Boucher, and Leighton. I would prefer Bob in the AHL if they go that route.

We have players that we can lose... Leino and Carle jump immediately to mind. I'm not in favor of moving Versteeg, because I think he complements Richards really well.
I was hard on Steeg to start, he has been good with Richards.

I would rather lose Lieno OVER Carle.... but neither if we could work it.

I'd like to see a Vet GK - Vokoun or Bryz (this would work with communication and mentorship more than Vokoun, I'd imagine).

Glencross and Svatos are FA's - I like the Cap they currently lie under - with upside - I REALLY want Glencross.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:37 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
I was hard on Steeg to start, he has been good with Richards.

I would rather lose Lieno OVER Carle.... but neither if we could work it.

I'd like to see a Vet GK - Vokoun or Bryz (this would work with communication and mentorship more than Vokoun, I'd imagine).

Glencross and Svatos are FA's - I like the Cap they currently lie under - with upside - I REALLY want Glencross.
Bryz is going to get more years than I think they should be looking to give if they have any plans for Bob down the road. Vokoun will probably be there on a 2 year deal at a reasonable rate given his age and the fact that he probably wants to get on a winning roster.

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04-25-2011, 11:40 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We won't be trading for a goalie this offseason... we need cap space, not a trade chip... and trading Jeff Carter to gain cap space is *ing idiotic.
2010 playoffs they seemed to be able to make it to game 6 of the playoffs, whereas the goalie situation has giving up some wins. The logical point of view is you have to give up something to get something, the logical person who has failed to produce is Carter because they have been able to do it without him and even when he is on the roster he still comes up small in the playoffs.

Proposing that the goalie situation is fine just to keep Carter and thinking that a guy like Briere is a better move is the only thing that is idiotic. It is stuck in this belief that everything is OK, that Jeff Carter is the straw that stirs the drink. When in reality he is maybe the 7th or 8th most important player on this team and if moving him to fill other more pressing needs is what needs to done to ensure that goaltending is not an issue over the next two years well then you get it done!

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:43 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Vokoun is going to be there to be had at a reasonable rate... that's who I would like them to target. Then they can figure out what they want to do about Bob, Boucher, and Leighton. I would prefer Bob in the AHL if they go that route.

We have players that we can lose... Leino and Carle jump immediately to mind. I'm not in favor of moving Versteeg, because I think he complements Richards really well.
There are just so many things wrong with this I do not even know where to start.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:46 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
2010 playoffs they seemed to be able to make it to game 6 of the playoffs, whereas the goalie situation has giving up some wins. The logical point of view is you have to give up something to get something, the logical person who has failed to produce is Carter because they have been able to do it without him and even when he is on the roster he still comes up small in the playoffs.

Proposing that the goalie situation is fine just to keep Carter and thinking that a guy like Briere is a better move is the only thing that is idiotic. It is stuck in this belief that everything is OK, that Jeff Carter is the straw that stirs the drink. When in reality he is maybe the 7th or 8th most important player on this team and if moving him to fill other more pressing needs is what needs to done to ensure that goaltending is not an issue over the next two years well then you get it done!
Yes, and it is also logical to suggest that what you are arguing for is idiotic overpayment inspired largely because you're nothing more than a 610 WIP hater incapable of rational thought.

You don't trade proven 35 goal scorers that are strong defensively for unproven commodities... which is all you're going to be talking about in a deal, unless Boston wants to talk about moving Rask (and I doubt they do).

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
There are just so many things wrong with this I do not even know where to start.
More like you don't have the intellectual ability to formulate a point. If you do, *ing go for it champ.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:49 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Shake it up. Jeff Carter and Bob to the Kings for Bernier, Stoll, Hickey + pick (Never happen, but a dream). Resign Powe, Carcillo, Leino, Nodl and maybe Zherdev (or find a way to replace him).

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Nikolai Zherdev ($1.500m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($2.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.850m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Daniel Carcillo ($1.075m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Darroll Powe ($0.850m)
Blair Betts ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Sean O'Donnell ($1.000m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Bernier ($1.250m) / Brian Boucher ($0.850m)

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,304,761; BONUSES: $850,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,745,239
wow, you dont pay a 4th line centerman $3m

also, there's no way Zherdev is back on this team, especially with a paycut

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Old
04-25-2011, 12:21 PM
  #41
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Radim Vrbata ($2.500m)
Andreas Nodl ($1.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($2.500m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.850m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) / Brian Boucher ($0.900m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,219,155; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,180,845

It can either be Vrbata or Versteeg. Which ever.

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Old
04-25-2011, 12:29 PM
  #42
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Pretty sure all bonuses will count against next year's cap... right? Something for the folks doing cap geek rosters to be aware of.

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04-25-2011, 12:41 PM
  #43
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I don't expect anything drastic to happen, unless Bob has managed to completely scuttle himself.

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Old
04-25-2011, 12:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yes, and it is also logical to suggest that what you are arguing for is idiotic overpayment inspired largely because you're nothing more than a 610 WIP hater incapable of rational thought.

You don't trade proven 35 goal scorers that are strong defensively for unproven commodities... which is all you're going to be talking about in a deal, unless Boston wants to talk about moving Rask (and I doubt they do).
What does improving the goaltending have to do with hating on 610 WIP?

If you can move Carter for a proven young commodity to fill in on the wing and use that space to sign Bryzgalov it is moving pieces to improve the central problem by using a commodity to strengthen the roster and also allow the cap space to get a legit #1 goalie. That is pretty basic to understand.

You acting like you are getting nothing in return, but au contraire mon frere, you are getting the most value possible because as you pointed out Carter does have real value in the market.

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Old
04-25-2011, 12:46 PM
  #45
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Jeff Carter is a proven young commodity. More proven than any of those other commodities that might feasibly be available.

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Old
04-25-2011, 12:48 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Pretty sure all bonuses will count against next year's cap... right? Something for the folks doing cap geek rosters to be aware of.
I'm still confused about that part. The Flyers managed the teams cap around those bonuses. Which is to say they took JVR's cap hit as 1.7mil and Bobo at 1.75mil etc... and didn't go over during the year, but at the end of the year they added Versteeg.

I have yet to see anything truly compelling to show that we will be carrying 2mil over to next year in deadcap from bonuses.

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04-25-2011, 12:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What does improving the goaltending have to do with hating on 610 WIP?

If you can move Carter for a proven young commodity to fill in on the wing and use that space to sign Bryzgalov it is moving pieces to improve the central problem by using a commodity to strengthen the roster and also allow the cap space to get a legit #1 goalie. That is pretty basic to understand.

You acting like you are getting nothing in return, but au contraire mon frere, you are getting the most value possible because as you pointed out Carter does have real value in the market.
I like how you shred Carter for his playoff performance, but are stoked to go out and sign Bryzgalov.

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04-25-2011, 12:50 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What does improving the goaltending have to do with hating on 610 WIP?

If you can move Carter for a proven young commodity to fill in on the wing and use that space to sign Bryzgalov it is moving pieces to improve the central problem by using a commodity to strengthen the roster and also allow the cap space to get a legit #1 goalie. That is pretty basic to understand.

You acting like you are getting nothing in return, but au contraire mon frere, you are getting the most value possible because as you pointed out Carter does have real value in the market.
Only people from Montreal should use french in their retorts. I'll let it slide for now, so long as we can get Carter and Richards off this team though.

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Old
04-25-2011, 12:52 PM
  #49
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I'm still confused about that part. The Flyers managed the teams cap around those bonuses. Which is to say they took JVR's cap hit as 1.7mil and Bobo at 1.75mil etc... and didn't go over during the year, but at the end of the year they added Versteeg.

I have yet to see anything truly compelling to show that we will be carrying over 2mil in deadcap from bonuses.
So next year is the last year of the current CBA (I'm pretty sure about this, but haven't been paying that close attention to it). Because of that, signing bonuses are counted towards the cap (this happened a couple years ago before they extended the CBA).

This year bonuses do not count, just like they didn't count last year (thus how the Hawks ended up way over). We obviously ended the year rather close to the cap NOT including whatever bonus money JVR and Bob earned... whatever cannot be paid for with this year's cap space is going to count next year.

So, if anyone knows the solid number for Bob and JVR, then we will have a good idea of the roll over.

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04-25-2011, 01:02 PM
  #50
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So next year is the last year of the current CBA (I'm pretty sure about this, but haven't been paying that close attention to it). Because of that, signing bonuses are counted towards the cap (this happened a couple years ago before they extended the CBA).

This year bonuses do not count, just like they didn't count last year (thus how the Hawks ended up way over). We obviously ended the year rather close to the cap NOT including whatever bonus money JVR and Bob earned... whatever cannot be paid for with this year's cap space is going to count next year.

So, if anyone knows the solid number for Bob and JVR, then we will have a good idea of the roll over.
Exactly. I'm focusing on the latter part. How close were we to the cap (excluding all the player bonuses), how many bonuses were met, and how Versteeg throws a wrench into all of this.

I know a lot of us followed the cap pretty closely throughout the year, and it seemed the way Capgeek totaled it; it included the bonuses (as if they were already meet), but also gave a secondary cap projection, which allowed the use of the bonuses.

For the most part it seemed we had a good cushion, but the deadline deal confuses things.

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