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WCQF: Game 7 - Vancouver Canucks vs. Chicago Blackhawks - Apr 26th - 7:00PM PST - CBC

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04-25-2011, 11:43 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
It's too late for logic now. I don't think you can flip flop on your goaltending like this. Vigneault already decided Schneider gives this team the best chance to win because Luongo was the reason we lost Games 4 and 5 apparently. How can you go back to Luongo in a Game 7 and expect him to be 100% focused and confident?

I wish the best for the Schneider Canucks and also hope Luongo gets traded to a real team like Philly in the off-season. Not a bunch of quitters.

Quitters who are probably going to win Game 7, though.
i knew you advocated to start luongo in game 6 because, in your eyes, he's done no wrong this series, but you expect luongo to be 100% focused and confident in game 7 because he's your franchise player and its the biggest game in franchise history

you can blame vigneault for his lack of confidence, or you can blame his lack of confidence on the fact that luongo's record is 1-8 the past 3 seasons in games 4, 5, and 6 against the hawks

if luongo can't handle that responsibility, then yeah, he should get traded because he's not the stud we all thought he was during the regular season

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04-25-2011, 11:44 AM
  #102
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My bet would be Devorski/Kozari. I don't want to think about Chris Lee having our fate in his hands.
I'm betting on Chris Lee, paired with Stephane Auger.

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04-25-2011, 11:44 AM
  #103
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Obviously a defining moment in Canucks' history. If they lose this I will likely take a break from NHL hockey. I don't think you could script a bigger kick in the groin for Canucks fans.

What is scary is that Chicago seems to be getting every break possible. Just their destiny to crush our spirits. Refs have not been helping our cause, but there were no calls through the second half of that game, Canucks need to perservere.

Crazy thing with that game is I actually thought the Canucks out-played Chicago. The Hawks just got bounces and calls when needed. Other than the gaffes, which bounced Chicago's way, the Canucks didn't give them much. And they controlled over-time only to see Luongo over-play the only shot he really got.

BUT, they're going to win. I've been a Canucks fan since 1982 and it's not about to change. **** the Hawks, **** Luongo's mental fragility. We're at home, and they will do what they need to do. Hawks have been more than lucky all series. No more excuses. Fight for the pucks like you want them. If there is any pride in this team, they'll snuff out the Hawks in game 7. They are the better team and at home. If they fall apart again, there will be changes and we move on.

If you want to see a happy-riot and not a mad-riot, win the game.

Go Canucks go.
I am so dejected, yet this is honestly how I feel at heart. I am so dejected because it seems even if the team shows up, they cannot get the breaks. Burrows burries that shot instead of off the post I think the series would've been done.

I am in the same boat. I am going to go on an NHL hiatus if the Canucks lose this game simply because I have invested so much emotion and time into this team, especially since 1989. At this point, it just seems that the canucks cannot get any breaks.

I hope they win, want them to win, and most of all the entire Canucks fan base deserves this win, and more after this.

But I just do not see them getting this. But here's hoping for a 5-2 Canucks win.

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04-25-2011, 11:46 AM
  #104
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Luongo's been Vigneault's go-to guy for 4 years. Every important game and situation, he's started no matter what. Essentially the only significant lineup move was to change that on a whim. I would assure you Luongo took it as the blame for Games 4 and 5 being placed directly on him. The team played like garbage for 2 games and all got another chance while he didn't.

Look at Brodeur at the Olympics. He was pissed and upset about having the blame (more rightfully) placed on him for the US game by being replaced. He said he couldn't even enjoy the win much after that. That's the mentality of guys who have been established starters for as long as these guys have.

Like I said, what's done is done and Schneider is the guy now. I hope to heck he succeeds.
To be honest, I don't think he is. AV has said "Luongo is our guy" and I believe him. AV knows his job is on the line, he and Luongo have run the gamut together and I think if AV is going to go down he'll go down with Luongo as his goalie.

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04-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #105
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i knew you advocated to start luongo in game 6 because, in your eyes, he's done no wrong this series, but you expect luongo to be 100% focused and confident in game 7 because he's your franchise player and its the biggest game in franchise history

you can blame vigneault for his lack of confidence, or you can blame his lack of confidence on the fact that luongo's record is 1-8 the past 3 seasons in games 4, 5, and 6 against the hawks

if luongo can't handle that responsibility, then yeah, he should get traded because he's not the stud we all thought he was during the regular season
The franchise has already decided he's not their guy. It's done, it's over with, now you expect him to go save your ass in Game 7? It doesn't work that way. Now you've said Schneider isn't good enough by going back to Luongo. Vigneault made his choice now he needs to stand by it for game 7.

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04-25-2011, 11:47 AM
  #106
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I'm betting on Chris Lee, paired with Stephane Auger.
LOL. That would really be the cherry on top, wouldn't it?

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04-25-2011, 11:49 AM
  #107
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the only thing worse than the canucks collapse is the blame being placed on the officiating and the bettman conspiracy theories whereby the league is apparently doing its best to ensure that the canucks lose the series

i thought the refs did a pretty good job in game 6 because, following raymond's penalty, they put their whistles in their pockets for anything except the most obvious of calls

by obvious, they had to call hodgson for delay of game, had to call the diving penalty on henrik, and had to call the penalty shot on a clear breakaway...those were pretty obvious calls to anybody who is not wearing canuck-tinted glasses

they didn't call the head shot on bieksa because he had possession of the puck and was a carbon copy of the torres hit that everybody advocated was perfectly legal but for the fact that seabrook might not have had the puck (which was correctly called as a 2 minute interference minor)

in the playoffs, all i want is for the officials to put away their whistles except for strict liability penalties, and that's what they did in the second half of game 6

for game 7, i hope they put away the whistles again and let the players decide the outcome

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04-25-2011, 11:50 AM
  #108
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LOL. That would really be the cherry on top, wouldn't it?
just par for the course.

we've waived the towel to the refs before, maybe we just self penalize and play the whole game with 4 skaters?

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04-25-2011, 11:51 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
The franchise has already decided he's not their guy. It's done, it's over with, now you expect him to go save your ass in Game 7? It doesn't work that way. Now you've said Schneider isn't good enough by going back to Luongo. Vigneault made his choice now he needs to stand by it for game 7.
He will start Luongo and it seems that you are going to be terribly disappointed.

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04-25-2011, 11:52 AM
  #110
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The franchise has already decided he's not their guy. It's done, it's over with, now you expect him to go save your ass in Game 7? It doesn't work that way. Now you've said Schneider isn't good enough by going back to Luongo. Vigneault made his choice now he needs to stand by it for game 7.
I don't see it that way at all. I don't think he has lost any confidence and I don't think he had any issues with what happened last night, beyond the fact that he's a competitor and will want to prove that he IS the guy.

I think they'll go with the guy that AV thinks gives them the best chance. To me that's Luongo, to AV it might be Schneider, but it won't be just because he started Game 6.

Either way, I couldn't possibly care less about who starts. I'll say it agian, the team faced around 5 legitimate scoring chances last night during regular time. If that's all the Hawks can come up with and need 2 EXTREMELY lucky goals and a braindead play by Hamhuis to win... well, they better be ready for a spanking in Game 7.

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04-25-2011, 11:52 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
It's too late for logic now. I don't think you can flip flop on your goaltending like this. Vigneault already decided Schneider gives this team the best chance to win because Luongo was the reason we lost Games 4 and 5 apparently. How can you go back to Luongo in a Game 7 and expect him to be 100% focused and confident?

I wish the best for the Schneider Canucks and also hope Luongo gets traded to a real team like Philly in the off-season. Not a bunch of quitters.

Quitters who are probably going to win Game 7, though.
Game 4 had nothing to do with Luongo but you can't just discount Luongo not being able to stop the 1st shot of the game against Hossa. That's a save your star goalie has to make and there's no doubt in my mind that deflated the team.

Did you feel confident when Luongo came in last night? I sure didn't. And watching him give off brutal rebounds into the slot from muffins from the point didn't help matters either. The game winning goal was played poorly but 10 minutes earlier he gave off one of the worst rebounds of the season for him. He just never looked comfortable and you knew he wasn't going to match the rookie at the other end of the ice.

Luongo needs to be traded because he puts too much pressure on himself, is too self aware and worries too much about his legacy in the sport. He just wants it too much and that works against him. Move him to a market where the pressure won't be as intense.

In general Luongo's play really hasn't been an issue in this series - yet at no point have I ever fealt we hold a goaltending edge over Chicago.

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04-25-2011, 11:53 AM
  #112
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the only thing worse than the canucks collapse is the blame being placed on the officiating and the bettman conspiracy theories whereby the league is apparently doing its best to ensure that the canucks lose the series

i thought the refs did a pretty good job in game 6 because, following raymond's penalty, they put their whistles in their pockets for anything except the most obvious of calls

by obvious, they had to call hodgson for delay of game, had to call the diving penalty on henrik, and had to call the penalty shot on a clear breakaway

they didn't call the head shot on bieksa because he had possession of the puck and was a carbon copy of the torres hit that everybody advocated was perfectly legal but for the fact that seabrook might not have had the puck, thus was a 2 minute interference minor

in the playoffs, all i want is for the officials to put away their whistles except for strict liability penalties, and that's what they did in the second half of game 6

for game 7, i hope they put away the whistles again and let the players decide the outcome
How do you explain the blatant two handed chops by Bolland on Henrik right in front of the refs?

I agree with you, the refs are not at fault with respect to where the series stands, but they were not good yesterday. If you think they did a "pretty good job," I'd hate to see what happens if they do a bad job.

I understand the point you are trying to convey, but people do have reasonable cause to complain here.

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04-25-2011, 11:54 AM
  #113
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In general Luongo's play really hasn't been an issue in this series - yet at no point have I ever fealt we hold a goaltending edge over Chicago.
No? Not even in Games 1 and 3 which he stole? Really? People are just getting silly now...

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04-25-2011, 11:54 AM
  #114
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To be honest, I don't think he is. AV has said "Luongo is our guy" and I believe him. AV knows his job is on the line, he and Luongo have run the gamut together and I think if AV is going to go down he'll go down with Luongo as his goalie.
Am I missing something here? Did AV not declare up and down Luongo was his guy and he was starting Game 6 only the change his mind on gameday? Did that not happen?

You can't just mess around with players like that without ramifications. Say Vigneault shows up pre-game and says to Henrik that he's going to play 5 minutes on the 4th line while all the other centres move up a place. He'd do it, he'd try but there would be long lasting consequences to that move.

It was a desperation move by a desperate coach. Flipping back to Luongo is even more desperate. It's Schneider's time now.

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04-25-2011, 11:55 AM
  #115
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So I guess by Wednesday morning we will all either be loathing the Predators or loving them.

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04-25-2011, 11:55 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
The franchise has already decided he's not their guy. It's done, it's over with, now you expect him to go save your ass in Game 7? It doesn't work that way. Now you've said Schneider isn't good enough by going back to Luongo. Vigneault made his choice now he needs to stand by it for game 7.
Just because Luongo sat game 6 doesn't mean AV/MG or whoever blame him for the 2 losses. It was a hunch to try and turn the tide of the series. I'm guessing AV thought the defense might feel more pressure having an inexperienced goalie between the pipes and they might try to rally around him. It seemed to work for the most part, the team actually showed up to play. Now they can feel a bit more confident about their game, go back to Luongo at home and try and salvage the season.

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04-25-2011, 11:56 AM
  #117
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Considering that Luongo had 2 assists this season precisely off of passes like that, I don't see why it's a predetermined assumption that goal doesn't happen with him in the net. Schneider is a WORSE puckhandler than Luongo, anyone that has watched him with the Moose knows this.
Watch the play again - that's a move Roberto Luongo has never made in a Canuck uniform.

If we're going to assume Luongo makes that play, let's also assume he gives the puck to Hamhuis in a precarious position and the Hawks score.

--------------

Did the Canucks lose 3 games in a row once this season?

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04-25-2011, 11:57 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
The franchise has already decided he's not their guy. It's done, it's over with, now you expect him to go save your ass in Game 7? It doesn't work that way. Now you've said Schneider isn't good enough by going back to Luongo. Vigneault made his choice now he needs to stand by it for game 7.
goalies are not girlfriends that you dump, get hurt feelings, and never see again

the whole point of keeping schneider instead of trading him away was for situations such as this where there was a crisis in a critical playoff situation, whether because the goaltending was poor or the momentum needed to be shifted back to the canucks in a hurry

luongo's average-at-best play and the huge momentum shift to the hawks meant that schneider became an option, and while i disagree with the way that vigneault handled the announcement, giving schneider a start in a non-elimination game does not mean that the franchise has decided that schneider is suddenly the goalie of the future

it's the biggest game in franchise history and it's time to go with the studs that brought the canucks to this point, for better and worse, and that's luongo...if luongo performs poorly, it's his fault that he's underperformed and lost his starting job, not vigneault's

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04-25-2011, 11:57 AM
  #119
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Game 4 had nothing to do with Luongo but you can't just discount Luongo not being able to stop the 1st shot of the game against Hossa. That's a save your star goalie has to make and there's no doubt in my mind that deflated the team.
This is the trademark of a team that won't win a Cup with these players. Philly overcame FOUR BAD GOALS. FOUR. In one game. Pekka Rinne let in an absolutely horrible goal to start the Nashville game last night. They overcame it. The Canucks folded at the first sight of trouble.

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Did you feel confident when Luongo came in last night? I sure didn't. And watching him give off brutal rebounds into the slot from muffins from the point didn't help matters either. The game winning goal was played poorly but 10 minutes earlier he gave off one of the worst rebounds of the season for him. He just never looked comfortable and you knew he wasn't going to match the rookie at the other end of the ice.
No, I don't feel confident with him playing now because you took a guy whose confidence was likely already low and pinned the 2 losses on him. Then a couple hours later he's thrown into a hostile environment with no warmup, no preparation, nothing. Obviously he's not going to be comfortable. He's not a robot.

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04-25-2011, 11:58 AM
  #120
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People seem way too down considering how that game last night went. If that wasn't a positive sign for Game 7, I don't know what is. Obviously we would all prefer to have this over and done with, but it didn't work out that way. Doesn't change the fact that the team largely outplayed the Hawks and needed a lot of bad breaks to lose.

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04-25-2011, 11:58 AM
  #121
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The only game I really questioned Luongo after was Game 5. And really only on the first goal. He needed to stop that one, but sometimes goalies don't save pucks that they should. The team can't afford to completely fold after a goal like that.

I really have no idea who starts in Game 7. I'd like to think Luongo, so long as he isn't hurt. He needs to get past this demon. And if the Canucks can play in front of him the way they played last night, I think they'll win Game 7. If they can play that way it doesn't matter if its Schneider or Luongo in net--I think we can win.

Hopefully Gillis' long chat with Rob Shick yields some results. There were some astounding no-calls against Blackhawk infractions last night. But really, the officiating is a minor side note. The Canucks were the better team in Game 6, and it was the first time all series that the team that was better on the ice lost the game.

The Canucks need that same effort. We need everyone stepping up. Burrows and Bieksa bagged their first goals of the playoffs, now we need guys like Kesler and Raymond to do the same. Support the offense, sacrifice yourself to block shots, throw hits, skate hard, shoot the puck and play like your life depends on it. Your career just may depend on this game.

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04-25-2011, 11:59 AM
  #122
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Am I missing something here? Did AV not declare up and down Luongo was his guy and he was starting Game 6 only the change his mind on gameday? Did that not happen?

You can't just mess around with players like that without ramifications. Say Vigneault shows up pre-game and says to Henrik that he's going to play 5 minutes on the 4th line while all the other centres move up a place. He'd do it, he'd try but there would be long lasting consequences to that move.

It was a desperation move by a desperate coach. Flipping back to Luongo is even more desperate. It's Schneider's time now.
Do you not understand gamesmanship? AV is the coach and if he thinks he can gain an advantage it's his perogative to try to do it. If the players are so "fragile" that they can't cope or adjust then thats on them. I can almost guarantee you it's NOT Schneider's time.

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04-25-2011, 11:59 AM
  #123
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People seem way too down considering how that game last night went. If that wasn't a positive sign for Game 7, I don't know what is. Obviously we would all prefer to have this over and done with, but it didn't work out that way.
Precisely. We outshot them, we outskated them and we outplayed them. They were only in the game because of two gift-wrapped goals by our rookie goaltender and a borderline-esque penalty shot.

The Canucks were the better team last night. If they bring that effort in Game 7, I think we win.

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04-25-2011, 12:00 PM
  #124
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People seem way too down considering how that game last night went. If that wasn't a positive sign for Game 7, I don't know what is. Obviously we would all prefer to have this over and done with, but it didn't work out that way.
I think they're going to win but they're not going all the way with this group, this year. They miss too many opportunities that you can't miss to have all the breaks go your way and win a Cup.

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04-25-2011, 12:01 PM
  #125
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How do you explain the blatant two handed chops by Bolland on Henrik right in front of the refs?

I agree with you, the refs are not at fault with respect to where the series stands, but they were not good yesterday. If you think they did a "pretty good job," I'd hate to see what happens if they do a bad job.

I understand the point you are trying to convey, but people do have reasonable cause to complain here.
Go ask the Chicago fans if they think the refs have missed any calls on their side, and they'll give you a list just as long.

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