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John Tortorella Discussion (Update: Torts extended 3 years)

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04-25-2011, 12:25 PM
  #976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I'm no McCabe fan, but here's a guy that has earned 1/2 of his NHL points w/ the man advantage. He knows what to do out there. The PP should have improved to some degree in his tenure here and it didn't. What was the point in acquiring him if we're conceding that "he's no Subban, C'est La Vie"?

If there's a common thread to a lot of failed player experiments under Torts, it's that guys who once were regarded as fearsome on the power play pretty much disappeared once they got here. From Redden to Kotalik, I find it very hard to believe that all of them simply forgot how to run the point, rip cannon shots, whatever their specialty was. The constant is the guy(s) drawing up these special teams plays and then telling the group to go out there and execute.
I had no problem getting McCabe and giving him a chance. However at some point he became afraid to shoot and became a detriment to a PP that had no one willing to shoot. I don't want him back and I'm not saying we need to acquire subban, I'm saying the Habs have multiple players who will let it rip from the point along with small speedy wingers who hang around the net waiting for rebounds. I think one of the main reasons mcilrath was drafted was for his cannon of a shot and the incentive based contract based on games played is to encourage him to be ready to win a spot and rip some bombs from the point in preseason. Hopefully we get Richards and this is moot but McCabe was brought to shoot the puck and after the flyer game he rarely shot again making our inept PP even more pathetic.

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04-25-2011, 12:26 PM
  #977
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I think parts of our PP struggles are mental. For stretches I think our PP was good, like above avg., but we just do not take advantage of it. We jump on every oppertunity to create misery on the PP, and fail to run away with it when it actually works. And when it sucks it sucks tremendously. The break-in with the long drop pass just looked ill-advised (its very obvious that we do not have much experience behind the bench from players who had any offensive skills back in the day), a clear desk-product. But besides that nothing sticks out in how we play really.

I can't really comment on the fact if its the coach fault or not, like we play a standard set-up that many team uses and many teams have success with. It's not like 5 on 5 when we play a style nobody have had success with since the lock-out. I saw a replay of the Nash-Anaheim game, and the speed Nashville had and how they took the puck to the net with speed under their skates stood out tremendously compared to our slap shot-pass that's redirected into the corner to get a circle going before we go to the net apporch.

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04-25-2011, 02:49 PM
  #978
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Staples confirmed Larry's report

Quote:
Rangers: John Tortorella, who was heading into his option year as coach, signed a new three-year extension in March, according to a report that was confirmed by sources yesterday. Assistant coach Mike Sullivan may get some head-coach interviews, but Tortorella is here for the foreseeable future. Glen Sather will be back, as well, along with a front office that has sharpened its focus over the last few seasons.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/column...gers-1.2836614

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04-25-2011, 03:00 PM
  #979
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The people that think Torts is the problem seriously need their heads examined.

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04-25-2011, 03:03 PM
  #980
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Staples is having a field day with breaking all this rangers news today

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Old
04-25-2011, 03:11 PM
  #981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyhan View Post
I know I'm fairly new to this forum, but..

I DO NOT APPROVE.
3 seasons, missed the playoffs once,
got knocked out in the first round TWICE.

We have been struggling offensively the entire time.
TORTS CAN NOT SCORE.

His coaching and strategies do not suit the skill-sets of our
current roster.

This dump and chase is ridiculous.
The line changes are ridiculous.

Can anyone think of two players that
had chemistry with each other other than Staal + Girardi
and MAYBE Prust + Boyle?

BECAUSE THERE WAS NONE.
I am a DIE-HARD fan and want nothing but good for this team,
but this extension makes me upset.

This coach can not get it done.
I don't know if this is supposed to be a haiku or what, but you place way too much of the blame on Torts' shoulders for the offensive struggles this team had. He got the collective to play a system that maximized the talent on the team. Yeah, they got into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth and ultimately fell short, but in the big scheme of things it was a good year and is a good building block for seasons to come.


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Old
04-25-2011, 03:17 PM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I don't know if this is supposed to be a haiku or what, but you place way too much of the blame on Torts' shoulders for the offensive struggles this team had. He got the collective to play a system that maximized the talent on the team. Yeah, they got into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth and ultimately feel short, but in the big scheme of things it was a good year and an good building block for seasons to come.
Feel/Fell short is putting it nicely

You cannot say as a lifelong Ranger fan that this is a certainty. This year was brutal physically and mentally, how they respond next year or 5 years down the road is anyone's guess at this point.

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04-25-2011, 03:29 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
The people that think Torts is the problem seriously need their heads examined.
I don't think anyone here places total blame on Torts, but he certainly was a point of problem.

For example, who should've placed Boyle on the main PP in front of the net on every single one of our PPs?
How about that Prospal-Gaborik-_____ BS???
Avery playing bottom 3 minutes while looking like the best skater in a couple games?

There's more to complain about, yet there's good things he did as well. I and everyone else should love how he handles the kids. Also, you know he cares. Even the way he deals with a certain writer, is more out of hurt than him being an AH.

IMO, your above quote is no more or less stupid than saying he's entirely to blame. Truly no offense, and with all due respect.

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04-25-2011, 03:34 PM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I don't know if this is supposed to be a haiku or what, but you place way too much of the blame on Torts' shoulders for the offensive struggles this team had. He got the collective to play a system that maximized the talent on the team. Yeah, they got into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth and ultimately feel short, but in the big scheme of things it was a good year and an good building block for seasons to come.
Good post, but I don't think he maximized the talent at all.

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04-25-2011, 03:37 PM
  #985
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When you look around the league at the talent that has been missed by Sather over the years, blaming Torts OR Renney is a farce.

The main difference between the 2 simply lies in the fact that lately Slats has been forced to use more home-grown players in the past couple of years. forced.

The problem is Sather not Tortorella. Renney had his issues and so does Torts, but the MAIN problem is SATHER. He is the one who has assembled this team in it's current iteration.

The years of Sather at the helm has led to what we have today: This same sort of "almost close" pseudo-rebuild, that just needs "one more bonafide number one..." and then we will be able to make a run.

If Sather hadn't lucked out with Jagr and Hank we wouldn't even have done as well as we have since the lockout. Well his luck ran out. Gomez, Drury, Redden, Higgins, Naslund, Gaborik, (yeah I know, I know, he coudl still work out ) and on and on have not turned into the "next Jagr" and here we are with some good 3rd liners and some good Dmen and Hank. And you just saw how far that will get us.

Yeah, I'm for Richards. What the hell else am I gonna hope for? But jeez, at the end of the day this is a tangled mess. I have NO expectations that BR is going to just magically turn The New York Rangers into a Cup contender. But is that Tortorella's fault?

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Old
04-25-2011, 03:37 PM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Good post, but I don't think he maximized the talent at all.
how so? Many of the players had career years, no?

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Old
04-25-2011, 04:06 PM
  #987
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I was a bit confused by the verbage in Ola's post myself.
I'm glad I'm finding this out now before I waste any more time. The person contradicts him(her)self right from the get go, and either doesn't want to admit to it or, doesn't understand his own contradiction. But I need to slow down?? From what? What I wrote had nothing to do with speed. I'm simply responding to (and questioning) what the other person is saying.

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04-25-2011, 04:15 PM
  #988
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how so? Many of the players had career years, no?
If you're looking at stats you can come up with a few black and white statements that could or could not be true.

The thing is, we saw this team with our own eyes the whole year, I can't begin to believe no one could have some fault with how he handled the team this year.

When you are the coach and your main focus is on the current game in hand, you are accountable, just like the players. He did a good job for stretches at a time this year, but to say he was perfect in his execution is just wrong based what unfolded on the ice at certain times this season.

OT about Torts - Anyone have a chart on which teams had the most bench minors this season? Seemed like we had quite a few too many men on the ice minors, or is that just me?

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04-25-2011, 04:18 PM
  #989
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how so? Many of the players had career years, no?
I think the point he is making is that the grinders are the ones who had career years, while the offensive talent on the team were the ones who were neutered.

Hard to say either way, could be coincidental.

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04-25-2011, 04:23 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Feel/Fell short is putting it nicely

You cannot say as a lifelong Ranger fan that this is a certainty. This year was brutal physically and mentally, how they respond next year or 5 years down the road is anyone's guess at this point.
Well, this isn't the glory days of life as a Ranger fan, but I think the right elements are in place. Bottomline to me: Torts and Sather are the reality for the forseeable future. The team will be shaped in their image and that requires some additional tweaking (see ya later Gabby!).

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04-25-2011, 04:24 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
Good post, but I don't think he maximized the talent at all.
Short of being Gabby's wet nurse I don't see what else he could have done better. This team is full of glorified grinders, and I say that with the utmost respect.

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04-25-2011, 04:29 PM
  #992
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Quote:
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OT about Torts - Anyone have a chart on which teams had the most bench minors this season? Seemed like we had quite a few too many men on the ice minors, or is that just me?
I actually thought he did a much better job of that this season than last.

And there's one on NHL.com.

Sort it up, Rangers had 7, the 11th lowest.

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04-25-2011, 04:32 PM
  #993
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I actually thought he did a much better job of that this season than last.

And there's one on NHL.com.

Sort it up, Rangers had 7, the 11th lowest.
That's actually pretty good for this young team. I think its more on Sully than Torts though. Still not worth the PP headaches he causes

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04-25-2011, 04:33 PM
  #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Well, this isn't the glory days of life as a Ranger fan, but I think the right elements are in place. Bottomline to me: Torts and Sather are the reality for the forseeable future. The team will be shaped in their image and that requires some additional tweaking (see ya later Gabby!).
So basically, if we get the right tires on the Oilers/Lightening success mobile we'll win one of these races someday....maybe. Right?

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04-25-2011, 05:30 PM
  #995
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I think those who find enough fault in Torts to can him overrate the level of talent on this team.

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Old
04-25-2011, 06:31 PM
  #996
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I'm far from a huge Johnny Cakes fan, but I have to disagree here.

If there is a similarity in the Kotalik and McCabe cases, it's that both thrived on the PP when playing on the same unit as one, if not more, good or great playmakers (for Kotalik, it was Briere/Pominville/Connolly, for McCabe, Kaberle, Sundin, etc). Neither McCabe or Kotalik were primarily responsible for running the point. In Kotalik's case, the man hardly ever touched the puck on the PP in Buffalo unless it was him connecting on a one-timer. He's one of the stupidest players I've ever seen in my time as a hockey fan. You couldn't pick a worse person to handle the puck at the point on the PP.

In the case of Redden, he was the least important cog in one of the most talented PP units in NHL history, and he was done as a player a year before the Rangers even got him.

This team has no one that even resembles a competent PP QB and they haven't since Jagr. Vinny Prospal, who I like a lot, should not be the primary puck distributor on the PP. Vinny is a hardworking player, but while he's certainly no Kotalik in the smarts department, he's not the most heady player in the league either. He's a good passer with decent vision. You need a great passer with great vision and anticipation. Gaborik shouldn't be touching the puck unless it's the second or two right before he shoots it. When he controls the puck along the halfboards on the PP, nothing happens. He's a sniper, not a playmaker. Need I say anything about the likes of Wolski or Christensen? You can't even make an argument for anyone else on the roster being a puck distributor. Hopefully, next season, Stepan goes back to being one.
But he's got to be able to get something out of these guys. You don't have to be Briere or Sundin to set up a teammate for a shot from the point if that's what the strategy calls for.

Should I assume these players were brought here at the objection of the coach? Is it a bold faced lie to tell the media that he expects someone like McCabe to be asset for a stuggling PP? Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in a puck carrier at the deadline instead of a shooter if he felt that was the missing element out there?

I don't disagree with your assessment. I just think Tortorella doesn't have the answer to the problem.

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I had no problem getting McCabe and giving him a chance. However at some point he became afraid to shoot and became a detriment to a PP that had no one willing to shoot. I don't want him back and I'm not saying we need to acquire subban, I'm saying the Habs have multiple players who will let it rip from the point along with small speedy wingers who hang around the net waiting for rebounds. I think one of the main reasons mcilrath was drafted was for his cannon of a shot and the incentive based contract based on games played is to encourage him to be ready to win a spot and rip some bombs from the point in preseason. Hopefully we get Richards and this is moot but McCabe was brought to shoot the puck and after the flyer game he rarely shot again making our inept PP even more pathetic.
No, I know you weren't making a pitch for Subban or anything.

Was McCabe afraid to shoot? Was he told to pick his spots carefully to prevent a puck that missed the net from sending the play the other way? Was he literally just unable to get set up by his teammates?

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04-25-2011, 06:38 PM
  #997
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Main issue I have with Torts was how he handled MDZ this year. The kid was struggling throughout and he kept berating him on the bench. The kid is 20 years old and struggling during his 2nd year and Torts is ripping him a new *******. The one moment that stood out was that game in Atlanta where I thought Del Zotto was gonna cry. He pretty much destroyed any confidence Del Zotto had, there were better ways of dealing with the kid. Otherwise I think he's done a great job with all of the kids and a solid job overall this year.

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04-25-2011, 06:53 PM
  #998
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But he's got to be able to get something out of these guys. You don't have to be Briere or Sundin to set up a teammate for a shot from the point if that's what the strategy calls for.

Should I assume these players were brought here at the objection of the coach? Is it a bold faced lie to tell the media that he expects someone like McCabe to be asset for a stuggling PP? Wouldn't it have made more sense to bring in a puck carrier at the deadline instead of a shooter if he felt that was the missing element out there?

I don't disagree with your assessment. I just think Tortorella doesn't have the answer to the problem.
I think the Rangers probably tried to search for a puck carrier, but the price was too high. Look at the Kaberle trade - nuoh my god at that price. I would have flipped if the Rangers had given up a very good prospect, a 1st, and a conditional for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Jr.
No, I know you weren't making a pitch for Subban or anything.

Was McCabe afraid to shoot? Was he told to pick his spots carefully to prevent a puck that missed the net from sending the play the other way? Was he literally just unable to get set up by his teammates?
He seemed very hesitant each time he had the puck, to be honest. And when he did shoot, he shot it either into the shin pad of a defender or wide, mainly because the Rangers were doinga terrible job of trying to draw defenders away from McCabe. It was a set penalty kill - if you completely take away McCabe's shooting ability, he's ineffective.

Quote:
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Main issue I have with Torts was how he handled MDZ this year. The kid was struggling throughout and he kept berating him on the bench. The kid is 20 years old and struggling during his 2nd year and Torts is ripping him a new *******. The one moment that stood out was that game in Atlanta where I thought Del Zotto was gonna cry. He pretty much destroyed any confidence Del Zotto had, there were better ways of dealing with the kid. Otherwise I think he's done a great job with all of the kids and a solid job overall this year.
That was horrific. It was like he had it out for him - that mistake wasn't even completely his fault. It was a weird carom off the boards that hopped over his stick. It happens even to the best of 'em.

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04-25-2011, 07:12 PM
  #999
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I know I'm fairly new to this forum, but..

I DO NOT APPROVE.
3 seasons, missed the playoffs once,
got knocked out in the first round TWICE.

We have been struggling offensively the entire time.
TORTS CAN NOT SCORE.

His coaching and strategies do not suit the skill-sets of our
current roster.

This dump and chase is ridiculous.
The line changes are ridiculous.

Can anyone think of two players that
had chemistry with each other other than Staal + Girardi
and MAYBE Prust + Boyle?

BECAUSE THERE WAS NONE.
I am a DIE-HARD fan and want nothing but good for this team,
but this extension makes me upset.

This coach can not get it done.
I agree with you 100% that "torts can not score" and thats why I don't blame him for everything. If getting knocked out in the first round twice was the bar a lot of great coaches would have lost their jobs. Thats an arbitrary line to draw. His coaching doesn't suit the current roster? What is going to make them do better? Running and gunning like Ovechkin and Co. (arguably the most talented team in the conference) used to? Who is going to score that way? Grinding is how a team with this roster wins.

Who has chemistry? Well lets see...

Girardi + Staal with cannot be understated seeing as how that pairing was well beyond great this year. They were awesome.

The Dubi - AA - Callahan line had great chemistry at the beginning of the year and emerged again toward the end.

Sauer - McD became a second D pairing made of 2 rookies, neither of which were even a lock to make the NHL roster at the beginning of the season. They have a ton of chemistry and became a solid second pairing almost overnight.

Fed - Boyle - Prust was also a solid line for the bulk of the season that showed great chemistry.

Maybe the lines were changing because there was almost always a major injury?

Its not the coach that can't get it done IMO its the roster. Mainly because ~7 mill in capspace is going toward more or less nothing. Also, the team lost its heart and soul and debately its best player for the playoffs. If Callahan was there and they won this one series I think you'd be singing a very different tune. The roster isn't ready to go deep into the playoffs as it is. Even the best coach won't take a roster that isn't built to win a cup and take them there. There are many facets to a successful team.

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04-25-2011, 07:12 PM
  #1000
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He seemed very hesitant each time he had the puck, to be honest. And when he did shoot, he shot it either into the shin pad of a defender or wide, mainly because the Rangers were doinga terrible job of trying to draw defenders away from McCabe. It was a set penalty kill - if you completely take away McCabe's shooting ability, he's ineffective.
I agree. He was somewhat hesitant, but he also didn't get a hell of a lot of opportunities because of the fundamental problem with our powerplay (which his acquisition didn't address)...poor puck movement. Good powerplays keep the moving around constantly with quick, accurate passing. Our powerplays doesn't do that very well, and it's a problem with the players IMO.

Hopefully Del Zotto & Zuccarello get a good opportunity to play major minutes with the extra man next year. They should help. Of course by then McCabe will be gone and we'll need some big shots...

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