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Old
04-25-2011, 10:36 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
Anisimov tore up the AHL and scored over 80 points and was slightly above a ppg. That is after scoring somewhere near 43 (may be off) points the year before in the A. He increased again after his rookie season, by nearly double, just like in the A. The kid has shown that he is consistently improving, and that is what makes him such a nice piece of the puzzle.
Looking at it from a shear numbers perspective I don't know how people are ready to give up on the kid.

I don't think there is any question that he will put on some weight and fill out. When this happens it will only help his game. The kid is only going to get better, I'm not moving him unless I'm blown away with the offer.

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04-25-2011, 11:00 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Arty is a positional hockey player who doesn't like getting his nose dirty. Below average sturdiness along the boards. Maybe the worst on the team. He's still talented enough to be a 50+ point player, but unless he has drastic changes in strength and engagement along the boards then he is going to hurt his club when it matters most.
That bit in bold is utter rubbish. He may not be good along the boards (yet) but he's never shown an ounce of fear or reticence to get his nose dirty either along the boards or in front of the net.

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04-25-2011, 11:02 AM
  #103
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Hes a 22 year old player who just put up a 44 point season, and you guys want him traded off?

Obviously he can still get bigger stronger, and better overall. But theres no way I would want to move him unless the return offer was amazing.

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04-25-2011, 11:26 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Hes a 22 year old player who just put up a 44 point season, and you guys want him traded off?

Obviously he can still get bigger stronger, and better overall. But theres no way I would want to move him unless the return offer was amazing.
What if the return netted us a consistent complimentary scoring winger to play in the top six? Pencil in Richards, Stepan, Boyle and whoever down the middle. While having Anisimov would give us wonderful depth I do think he would have value to a lot of teams.

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04-25-2011, 11:29 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Musto View Post
What if the return netted us a consistent complimentary scoring winger to play in the top six? Pencil in Richards, Stepan, Boyle and whoever down the middle. While having Anisimov would give us wonderful depth I do think he would have value to a lot of teams.
if he provides wonderful depth and value, why would you want to trade him?

Consistency is not exactly common among young players.

If some team came with an offer of a very good young player of course you consider it. But why would they?

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04-25-2011, 11:50 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Musto View Post
What if the return netted us a consistent complimentary scoring winger to play in the top six? Pencil in Richards, Stepan, Boyle and whoever down the middle.
If Artie netted us a consistent top 6 winger, I would guarantee you that:

1) The player will be older than Artie, by at least a few years, and most likely nearing free agency (which is would he would be available in the first place).
2) The player will cost at least double, if not triple or more, than Artie will cost the next 2 years (Artie will get a deal similar to Dubi's 2 years @ 1.85 mil).
3) The player probably won't be as good defensively.

So while the player we get might be a better offensive player right now, the value per cap dollar spent won't be there. And in a couple years, Artie might be matching that players offensive totals anyway.

We saw the same thing with Dubinsky. The last couple years, a lot of people wanted to trade him for Weiss or some other marginal 1st line center.

Dubinsky:
77 games 24 goals 30 assists

Weiss:
76 games 21 goals 28 assists

Dubinsky is 3 years younger and his cap hit this year was 1.25 mil lower. Does anyone still think we should have traded Dubinsky for Weiss?

The same will be true of Artie. Show me the deal we are making where he is the main piece going back and I guarantee you that Artie will be as good or better than that player within 2 years (hint: we aren't trading him for an 80+ point player).

But of course, not trading him would require patience.

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While having Anisimov would give us wonderful depth I do think he would have value to a lot of teams.
Yeah, a lot of teams. Like the NY Rangers.

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04-25-2011, 04:21 PM
  #107
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With or without Richards the Rangers as an organization do not have depth in center (compared to what they have on defense or potentially on a wing) so I don't understand how anyone could suggest a trade that would weaken us there. Also in addition to being weaker in center, I have not seen ANY trade suggestions where there is no significant downside either in salary or defensive responsibilities. And even ignoring these other factors any potential gain from the trade offensively is based on Artem's current production as a SOPHMORE!!!

Horak or Werek can do what Artie does? Really??? Based on what??? Let them at least start playing professionally before making these statements.

Helmsky??? How the Rangers are going to make up the difference in salary AND pay Richards since there is going to be a gapping hole in the middle!!

As someone already noted Dubi and Cally are able to be such effective deep forecheckers because there is Artie who is either able to read the play and keep it going in offensive zone or capable to cover for them defensively if there is a breakdown.

I personally see absolutely no upside in trading Anisimov either short or long term where downside is not significantly worse.

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04-25-2011, 04:22 PM
  #108
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I'd sooner move Boyle+ than Anisimov.

Looks like Arty is getting underrated around here. Disappointing.

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04-25-2011, 04:31 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'd sooner move Boyle+ than Anisimov.

Looks like Arty is getting underrated around here. Disappointing.
Definitely. Boyle is replaceable. Not that Arty isn't, but there are guys in Hartford now and soon that could be Boyle.

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04-25-2011, 04:39 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'd sooner move Boyle+ than Anisimov.

Looks like Arty is getting underrated around here. Disappointing.
You won't be getting much for a package centered around Boyle.

I think Anisimov is getting rated very fairly by a lot of people here. No one's saying that he's not valuable; quite the opposite, in fact. He's a young, cheap center with upside, which is precisely why he's an asset that can be packaged for a legitimate top line player. I, and others, just don't think his upside is as high as others here do. And I'm basing that on watching him play and seeing consistent flaws in his game.

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04-25-2011, 04:45 PM
  #111
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Some of the posts in this thread would lead me to suggest that people get back on the meds...quickly.

Anisimov is a keeper, plain and simple.

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04-25-2011, 04:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
You won't be getting much for a package centered around Boyle.

I think Anisimov is getting rated very fairly by a lot of people here. No one's saying that he's not valuable; quite the opposite, in fact. He's a young, cheap center with upside, which is precisely why he's an asset that can be packaged for a legitimate top line player. I, and others, just don't think his upside is as high as others here do. And I'm basing that on watching him play and seeing consistent flaws in his game.
So, because Anisimov has value, that's a reason to trade him? There's a difference between watching something and understanding what you are watching. The flaws in Artie's game are predicated on two things: confidence and strength. Both of those will improve as he matures (and have already improved in his 2nd season).

You make trades from positions of strength. Center is not a position of strength, even if we DO get Richards. Honestly, it's like some of you are only interested in what we can get for our players rather than what those players can actually do for us.

Please tell me what player you are trading Artie for. People love to throw out these ideas that we can trade so-and-so for a better player. Well, let's see it. Who are we trading him for?

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04-25-2011, 05:10 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So, because Anisimov has value, that's a reason to trade him? There's a difference between watching something and understanding what you are watching. The flaws in Artie's game are predicated on two things: confidence and strength. Both of those will improve as he matures (and have already improved in his 2nd season).

You make trades from positions of strength. Center is not a position of strength, even if we DO get Richards. Honestly, it's like some of you are only interested in what we can get for our players rather than what those players can actually do for us.

Please tell me what player you are trading Artie for. People love to throw out these ideas that we can trade so-and-so for a better player. Well, let's see it. Who are we trading him for?
This is exactly the problem. People want to trade players just for ***** and giggles, and it doesn't work like that. Yeah, Anisimov has trade value. He also has tremendous value to this organization, let alone another one.

Anisimov is a pretty unique player on this team, as he relies on his intelligence more so than his body to play the game. Once he adds strength, he's going to be a very good player, one that the organization, nor the fans, will want to trade.

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04-25-2011, 07:14 PM
  #114
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That bit in bold is utter rubbish. He may not be good along the boards (yet) but he's never shown an ounce of fear or reticence to get his nose dirty either along the boards or in front of the net.
Good point. Some people think that playing along the boards is an important skill that allows to render the judgment on players skillset and even character. Wrong. Playing along the boards is a low skill hockey. Rangers do it a lot due to lack of skills. It is correct tactic, but out of bad personnel situation.
Skill players can do that too, but usually have someone else do dig for them. It's so called "retriever" job. Hossa worked the boards for Jagr and Nylander, Khuble does it for O and Backstrom. Kunitz is another winger who is good at it. If there is no star player on the line then everybody works the boards. That is what bottom 6 players in this league do. The fact that all Rangers are good at working the boards clearly shows what everyone already knows : we do not have 1st line and may be not even 2nd. We have no stars. When Gaborik or Jagr work the boards its a sure sign that there is something wrong with their game, their stardom.
Anisimov is 2nd line C of star caliber in making. His job is to deliver the puck to wingers from Ds, move the puck while in offensive zone, cover other C and clear the high slot on defense. He does it well. It is wingers job to work the boards in each zone.
Stop trading your future stars, people. Let him play for 5 years before letting the world know that you called him a bust first. So far his improvement this season is obvious. He has a nice set of hands and skates remarkably well. The talent to adjust quickly to game speed i.e. basically be able figure out how much time you got before getting knocked off with the hit is not common. one need the experience, thus time.


Last edited by 94now: 04-25-2011 at 07:40 PM.
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Old
04-25-2011, 07:51 PM
  #115
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Not sure what you're saying. He doesn't bull his way as much as he should and can. When he has the puck in the offensive zone along the boards he has a tough time holding onto it. He is always hesitant in a dump and chase forecheck scenario.....trying to shy away from contact.

Arty is a positional hockey player who doesn't like getting his nose dirty. Below average sturdiness along the boards. Maybe the worst on the team. He's still talented enough to be a 50+ point player, but unless he has drastic changes in strength and engagement along the boards then he is going to hurt his club when it matters most.
I just disagree with that bit 100%. I don't see the hesitation to go into the tough areas. Is he good at it yet? No. But I don't see the reluctance that you're describing. Not at all.

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04-25-2011, 08:15 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So, because Anisimov has value, that's a reason to trade him?
No, because Anisimov has value, that's a reason to trade him for an established scorer.

Quote:
There's a difference between watching something and understanding what you are watching. The flaws in Artie's game are predicated on two things: confidence and strength. Both of those will improve as he matures (and have already improved in his 2nd season).
His flaws are also predicated on a lack of speed and an inability to get his shot off quickly. The latter can probably be improved somewhat, the former probably cannot. That's where I see his flaws minimizing his ceiling.

Quote:
You make trades from positions of strength. Center is not a position of strength, even if we DO get Richards. Honestly, it's like some of you are only interested in what we can get for our players rather than what those players can actually do for us.

Please tell me what player you are trading Artie for. People love to throw out these ideas that we can trade so-and-so for a better player. Well, let's see it. Who are we trading him for?
I'm not sure exactly who we can trade him for, because I'm not sure how much value other teams see in him. Plus we've seen Sather pull of deals that if someone proposed on here they would flamed beyond belief. So I think it's pretty silly to say that we should definitely hang on to a player just because we don't know exactly what we can get for him. But you want a name? How about a package built around Anisimov for Ryan Clowe?

Again, I'm not saying we need to trade Anisimov, or even that we really try to. But if a chance comes to improve the team through trade and they want one of our kids, Anisimov is the one I'd be least upset about losing.


Last edited by clmetsfan: 04-25-2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old
04-25-2011, 09:21 PM
  #117
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Let's face it
If the kid's name was "Joey Peters" and he grew up small town America nearly every poster on this board would be exclaiming how the kid is an integral part of the team's future,blah,blah blah. But instead, he's a "lazy Russian floater".
"Below average sturdiness along the boards. Maybe the worst on the team. "
Right, EC says hello. As does #10. I'm assuming you don't remember how the Pack Line would cycle the puck and dominate along the boards, with the most zone possession of any of our 4 lines in any given game when they played together.

He's going to be 23 years old next season, matched Dubi/Cally's sophomore numbers and was a key part of our most consistent offensive line all season (and don't underestimate AA's impact on that line either. Dubinsky himself admitted Arty was a huge factor in their success). Torts has also said multiple times he loves the kid and considers him very coachable. In general, he's made great progress this season and according to interviews, isn't particularly impressed by it saying he still has a ways to go.

Why are all of you so quick to trade the kid?

If we get a solid top line with Richards to play along Gabby, then I would be completely ecstatic if we had the Pack Line as a great #2 unit. If AA bulks up and improves on FOs then they will be a very dangerous line next year.
Why **** with chemistry? It's obvious these guys have it, so why break it up.

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04-25-2011, 09:26 PM
  #118
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The board play might not be a big deal during the regular season. Playoffs is a different story. It's tougher to work the puck around in the dangerous areas and that's when the cycle game kicks in. To me, Anisimov isn't engaged enough along the boards to be a good playoff performer for this team. He's being pegged in as a top 6 player. Yea, during the regular season maybe; but like I've said before I just don't see it translating successfully in the playoffs. One hesitant & disengaging play can decide a series. Have Arty train with Datsyuk over the summer.

Listen, I'd love to be wrong. It's just how I see it.

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04-25-2011, 09:33 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MaximusT View Post
Let's face it
If the kid's name was "Joey Peters" and he grew up small town America nearly every poster on this board would be exclaiming how the kid is an integral part of the team's future,blah,blah blah. But instead, he's a "lazy Russian floater".
"Below average sturdiness along the boards. Maybe the worst on the team. "
Right, EC says hello. As does #10. I'm assuming you don't remember how the Pack Line would cycle the puck and dominate along the boards, with the most zone possession of any of our 4 lines in any given game when they played together.

He's going to be 23 years old next season, matched Dubi/Cally's sophomore numbers and was a key part of our most consistent offensive line all season (and don't underestimate AA's impact on that line either. Dubinsky himself admitted Arty was a huge factor in their success). Torts has also said multiple times he loves the kid and considers him very coachable. In general, he's made great progress this season and according to interviews, isn't particularly impressed by it saying he still has a ways to go.

Why are all of you so quick to trade the kid?

If we get a solid top line with Richards to play along Gabby, then I would be completely ecstatic if we had the Pack Line as a great #2 unit. If AA bulks up and improves on FOs then they will be a very dangerous line next year.
Why **** with chemistry? It's obvious these guys have it, so why break it up.
Listen, Don't talk to me about Russian players. I have really bad man crushes and fetishes when it comes to Russian hockey. I just love it. Look at my flag. I'm Armenian and Russian hockey is what we grew up watching. I was devastated when Toots got traded. I have his jersey, and he's one of my favorite d-men in the league. Kovalev til this day is my favorite Ranger b/c of 1994. Right now my favorite hockey player in the league is Pavel Datsyuk. It's not about what country one is from for me. I'm just assessing what I'm seeing with my eyes. Everyone sees things differently.

As far as Christensen and all the other garbage. Who cares about the dead weight. It's not like they have any value on this club nor do they have any value for any other club. Anisimov on the other hand has value for both this club and others.

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04-25-2011, 10:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Listen, Don't talk to me about Russian players. I have really bad man crushes and fetishes when it comes to Russian hockey. I just love it. Look at my flag. I'm Armenian and Russian hockey is what we grew up watching. I was devastated when Toots got traded. I have his jersey, and he's one of my favorite d-men in the league. Kovalev til this day is my favorite Ranger b/c of 1994. Right now my favorite hockey player in the league is Pavel Datsyuk. It's not about what country one is from for me. I'm just assessing what I'm seeing with my eyes. Everyone sees things differently.

As far as Christensen and all the other garbage. Who cares about the dead weight. It's not like they have any value on this club nor do they have any value for any other club. Anisimov on the other hand has value for both this club and others.
hah the first part was actually in reference to the infamous "It's getting hard to watch Anisimov" thread which came up around the deadline where the most of the anti-AA arguments were based almost entirely off the lazy Russian stereotype. My bad if it looked like a direct attack at you haha, but you can't deny how many people's judgements on this site are clouded simply by the passport a player carries.

But I too am a huge fan of Russian hockey since I'm originally from Moscow actually.
You can't believe how happy I was the year when Kovy, OV and Dats were all three Hart nominees, or even earlier in history, when the Russian five was tearing it up.
So naturally AA is one of my favorite Rangers. Honestly with the # of Russians in the NHL going down because of the KHL (which I ****ing HATE btw) and the reluctancy of teams to draft young Russian talent, AA might be our last Russian player for a while if Grachev/VTank don't make the team.
btw I too was so pissed when we traded Toots! and I'd probably feel the same way if AA was traded, since I bought his jersey(after his OT winner against Buffalo) expecting him to be on the team for atleast a couple more years!!!!!

But I agree with the fact that he dissapointed a bit in the post season and seemed lost at times. Though honestly, so did the large majority of our team at times.
I'd give him another chance next year when HOPEFULLY we come into the playoffs as a 4 or 5 seed and the team will be gearing up for a longer run (atleast I hope! ).

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04-25-2011, 10:34 PM
  #121
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hah the first part was actually in reference to the infamous "It's getting hard to watch Anisimov" thread which came up around the deadline where the most of the anti-AA arguments were based almost entirely off the lazy Russian stereotype. My bad if it looked like a direct attack at you haha, but you can't deny how many people's judgements on this site are clouded simply by the passport a player carries.

But I too am a huge fan of Russian hockey since I'm originally from Moscow actually.
You can't believe how happy I was the year when Kovy, OV and Dats were all three Hart nominees, or even earlier in history, when the Russian five was tearing it up.
So naturally AA is one of my favorite Rangers. Honestly with the # of Russians in the NHL going down because of the KHL (which I ****ing HATE btw) and the reluctancy of teams to draft young Russian talent, AA might be our last Russian player for a while if Grachev/VTank don't make the team.
btw I too was so pissed when we traded Toots! and I'd probably feel the same way if AA was traded, since I bought his jersey(after his OT winner against Buffalo) expecting him to be on the team for atleast a couple more years!!!!!

But I agree with the fact that he dissapointed a bit in the post season and seemed lost at times. Though honestly, so did the large majority of our team at times.
I'd give him another chance next year when HOPEFULLY we come into the playoffs as a 4 or 5 seed and the team will be gearing up for a longer run (atleast I hope! ).
I'm pretty pissed off too about the Russian transfer and the lack of Russians coming into the league. However, at the same time I'm almost certain that if any super stars come along the way they are going to want to play in the best league in the world.

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04-25-2011, 10:50 PM
  #122
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Maximus, when the Russian 5 came onto the ice it was like the soviet hockey team was playing. They were dominant in all facets of the game. It was amazing to watch. Detroit fans have been extremely lucky over the years. They have seriously watched the best product one can ask for year after year. I don't know how they do it. Great scouting.

A brief story: I've actually met the Russian 5 in Detroit. My uncle went on a business trip to Detroit and carried me along with him. One of the employees was very close with Slava Kozlov so they treated us to dinner one night with all 5 of them. Kozlov, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Larianov, Fedorov. It was amazing. I have a wall plate with all 5 player cards autographed. One things for sure, Fedorov really likes to drink. Like ridiculous drinking

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04-25-2011, 10:54 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If Artie netted us a consistent top 6 winger, I would guarantee you that:

1) The player will be older than Artie, by at least a few years, and most likely nearing free agency (which is would he would be available in the first place).
2) The player will cost at least double, if not triple or more, than Artie will cost the next 2 years (Artie will get a deal similar to Dubi's 2 years @ 1.85 mil).
3) The player probably won't be as good defensively.

So while the player we get might be a better offensive player right now, the value per cap dollar spent won't be there. And in a couple years, Artie might be matching that players offensive totals anyway.

We saw the same thing with Dubinsky. The last couple years, a lot of people wanted to trade him for Weiss or some other marginal 1st line center.

Dubinsky:
77 games 24 goals 30 assists

Weiss:
76 games 21 goals 28 assists

Dubinsky is 3 years younger and his cap hit this year was 1.25 mil lower. Does anyone still think we should have traded Dubinsky for Weiss?

The same will be true of Artie. Show me the deal we are making where he is the main piece going back and I guarantee you that Artie will be as good or better than that player within 2 years (hint: we aren't trading him for an 80+ point player).

But of course, not trading him would require patience.



Yeah, a lot of teams. Like the NY Rangers.
Touche All I did was propose a thought. This response is sound and logical, thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'd sooner move Boyle+ than Anisimov.

Looks like Arty is getting underrated around here. Disappointing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So, because Anisimov has value, that's a reason to trade him? There's a difference between watching something and understanding what you are watching. The flaws in Artie's game are predicated on two things: confidence and strength. Both of those will improve as he matures (and have already improved in his 2nd season).

You make trades from positions of strength. Center is not a position of strength, even if we DO get Richards. Honestly, it's like some of you are only interested in what we can get for our players rather than what those players can actually do for us.

Please tell me what player you are trading Artie for. People love to throw out these ideas that we can trade so-and-so for a better player. Well, let's see it. Who are we trading him for?
Please relax. I like Artie a lot and actually do not want to see him go anywhere. In my mind I would even compare him to a Zajac or even a Jordan Stall.

I think adding Richards would put us in a position of strength in center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
This is exactly the problem. People want to trade players just for ***** and giggles, and it doesn't work like that. Yeah, Anisimov has trade value. He also has tremendous value to this organization, let alone another one.

Anisimov is a pretty unique player on this team, as he relies on his intelligence more so than his body to play the game. Once he adds strength, he's going to be a very good player, one that the organization, nor the fans, will want to trade.
Correct me if Im wrong but were you the one who put out an idea somewhere to move him for a PMD?

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04-26-2011, 12:16 AM
  #124
clmetsfan
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Originally Posted by MaximusT View Post
Let's face it
If the kid's name was "Joey Peters" and he grew up small town America nearly every poster on this board would be exclaiming how the kid is an integral part of the team's future,blah,blah blah. But instead, he's a "lazy Russian floater".
"Lazy Russian floater." That's just awesome. Because that's what we've been saying this whole time, right? Tip of the day: when using quotes to cite something, you should probably pick something that someone has actually said.

The words "bust," "lazy," and "float" have only come up in this entire thread by people who are putting words in the mouths of those who think that maybe it's not such a bad idea to trade a young player for someone more established.

You know what would be great? If more people around here were capable of having a rational discussion without resorting to strawman arguments.

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04-26-2011, 12:43 AM
  #125
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If we're going to consider trading Anisimov/Boyle, it better be because we signed Richards. That would give us major leverage in negotiations. I'd still rather keep both because I think both, Boyle especially, could still be valuable on the wing. Anisimov is already a top 6 talent, that doesn't go away with moving to the wing. It might even open up space for offensive creativity.

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