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Old
04-25-2011, 10:59 PM
  #101
ThisYearsModel
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Tortorella is telling it like it is. The Rangers are thin enough on offense. To bring back Prospal in his condition would be a huge question mark again. You can't rely on a player to be a top 6 forward if he can't stay healthy for the season. For Drury, the price is just ridiculous for what you get. He can still play in the NHL but it's as a bottom 6 forward now and it doesn't make sense to pay him his current salary to take faceoffs and kill penalties. Drury's body broke down faster than usual. Maybe because he always played hard but was never a big guy? Not sure. The effort is there so it's hard to watch him struggle to keep up.

You need the horses to go up against the Ovechkins of the league and the time when Drury and Prospal could play at the top level has passed them. If your true aspiration is to compete for the Stanley Cup then you need a roster capable of surviving the two month grind of hockey at its most intense. Is it reasonable to believe that Drury or Prospal can do that at this point in their careers? It's time for more new blood to be integrated into the team and let that develop. There's nothing wrong with moving on. The Avalanche and Flyers parted ways with players to make room for Dru and Vinny, now it's time for the Rangers to do the same thing.

I don't blame Drury for wanting to play again next year because it's the game he loves and it's a good living. It just shouldn't be for this team at what the Rangers owe him. The money saved can be used to re-sign the restricted free agents, like Callahan, who will be asked to take on even more responsibility moving forward.
Best post in this thread.

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Old
04-25-2011, 11:40 PM
  #102
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Dumping the puck in on the powerplay is absurd
the entire powerplay as a whole is absurd. rather disheartening...

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04-25-2011, 11:47 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FultonReed View Post
the entire powerplay as a whole is absurd. rather disheartening...
There wasn't one positive aspect of it. Should tape an average Ranger power play and send it to every hockey school in North America and tell the kids this is what not to do on the power play.

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04-26-2011, 01:14 AM
  #104
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Torts doesn't want Drury back and I agree 100%

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04-26-2011, 01:39 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
There wasn't one positive aspect of it. Should tape an average Ranger power play and send it to every hockey school in North America and tell the kids this is what not to do on the power play.
The only thing I saw that I liked was how Cally would sometimes plant himself in front of the goalie and not budge for anything. Other than that though, it was pretty awful.

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04-26-2011, 02:13 AM
  #106
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For all the **** we give Sather around here he does have an uncanny ability to make guys disappear.



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04-26-2011, 03:09 AM
  #107
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Sather needs to find a way to convince Drury to retire. How about a nice 5 million dollar a year assistant coaching job in Hartford.

We really need the cap space bad.

If Drury could retire and Wolski bought out, We would be fine.

Chris made 30 million dollars over the last 4 years. Retire and do the right thing just like Marcus Naslund did.

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04-26-2011, 06:34 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Musto View Post
I could see Vinny coming back to play a bottom six vet role next year. Put him on a line with Avery and you have two guys that are capable of doing some good things together.
Would any of these things have to do with hockey?

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04-26-2011, 08:45 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Its the same lineup as this season just with Richards injected. No thanks. its time for younger more skilled players. Prospal needs to go, he cant handle the full season and id much rather try to go after jussi jokinen. Zucca will never play 1st line minutes with richards and gaborik. Plus i think Wolski is bought out to free up another 3m in capspace that can be used to sign other players.
While I agree with your point, turning over the roster every year IS detrimental. If we sign BR we are going to have a new 1C to play with Gabby so if Prospal is healthy and stronger at the start of the training camp I'd bring him to compete for LW spot on that line because he proved that he plays hard and he produces. Otherwise our 2nd (Dubi-Ani-Cally) and 4th lines (Prust-Boyle-Feds/Avery) should stay intact and Stepan (and Zucc) continue to develop with someone who is ready to step up on a wing on this line (Grachev/Hagelin?).

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04-26-2011, 08:57 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
While I agree with your point, turning over the roster every year IS detrimental. If we sign BR we are going to have a new 1C to play with Gabby so if Prospal is healthy and stronger at the start of the training camp I'd bring him to compete for LW spot on that line because he proved that he plays hard and he produces. Otherwise our 2nd (Dubi-Ani-Cally) and 4th lines (Prust-Boyle-Feds/Avery) should stay intact and Stepan (and Zucc) continue to develop with someone who is ready to step up on a wing on this line (Grachev/Hagelin?).
I agree with what your saying as well, but you also need to understand that changing 2-3 players on the team isnt turning over the roster. Its cutting the fat from the team that SHOULDNT be on the team anymore. As much as i like prospal, he couldnt handle the playoffs and cant stay healthy. Id rather sign a guy like Jussi Jokinen to take prospals spot. Id hold onto Feds over Prospal, Feds has proved throughout the season and playoffs that he can and is able to play the way torts wants.

Jokinen Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Anisimov Cally
(Hagelin/Grachev) Stepan (Zucca/Avery)
Feds Boyle Prust

Staal Girardi
Mcd Sauer
FA/V-tank/MDZ

Lundqvist
Biron

That isnt a turning over the team, its finding out who works well for this team now and the future and who doesnt and subtracting those players, while getting new talented and young guys to step up and play.

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Old
04-26-2011, 08:57 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Sather needs to find a way to convince Drury to retire. How about a nice 5 million dollar a year assistant coaching job in Hartford.

We really need the cap space bad.

If Drury could retire and Wolski bought out, We would be fine.

Chris made 30 million dollars over the last 4 years. Retire and do the right thing just like Marcus Naslund did.
Or vice versa

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Old
04-26-2011, 09:05 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
I agree with what your saying as well, but you also need to understand that changing 2-3 players on the team isnt turning over the roster. Its cutting the fat from the team that SHOULDNT be on the team anymore. As much as i like prospal, he couldnt handle the playoffs and cant stay healthy. Id rather sign a guy like Jussi Jokinen to take prospals spot. Id hold onto Feds over Prospal, Feds has proved throughout the season and playoffs that he can and is able to play the way torts wants.

Jokinen Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Anisimov Cally
(Hagelin/Grachev) Stepan (Zucca/Avery)
Feds Boyle Prust

Staal Girardi
Mcd Sauer
FA/V-tank/MDZ

Lundqvist
Biron

That isnt a turning over the team, its finding out who works well for this team now and the future and who doesnt and subtracting those players, while getting new talented and young guys to step up and play.
Point taken. I probably misunderstood when you said "it's time for younger players" thinking you're one of proponents of starting next season with Hagelin, Grachev, Thomas, Kreider, Werek, Horak etc (or whoever else is latest hot stuff). Got nothing against one (or two at most) rookies making the roster.

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04-26-2011, 09:23 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
While I agree with your point, turning over the roster every year IS detrimental. If we sign BR we are going to have a new 1C to play with Gabby so if Prospal is healthy and stronger at the start of the training camp I'd bring him to compete for LW spot on that line because he proved that he plays hard and he produces. Otherwise our 2nd (Dubi-Ani-Cally) and 4th lines (Prust-Boyle-Feds/Avery) should stay intact and Stepan (and Zucc) continue to develop with someone who is ready to step up on a wing on this line (Grachev/Hagelin?).
I think we need to make a trade to get rid of some redundant pieces. Let's make room for some of the higher-upside prospects coming through our system.

If we can get decent value, I wouldn't mind seeing Anisimov or Boyle traded, especially if Richards signs here.

Hagelin looks like he's ready for the NHL. Grachev could be a mid-season callup if he continues to develop. Kreider or Thomas could surprise everyone and make the team out of camp (if they sign ELCs).

There's alot of talented youth waiting in the wings on this team. If we can inject at least 1 or 2 rooks into the lineup each season, I would be excited.

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04-26-2011, 09:35 AM
  #114
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Quote:
- Drury says going into contact year not something he worries about. Says he's fine with limited playing role.
Translation
Quote:
- Drury says that's right suckers I'm forcing a buyout to get rid of me and I don't care how much it hampers the organization. You haven't paid me enough, I want it ALL!!!!!!
Glad to see Prospal wants to work hard to get back into NY, great guy to be counted on to help this team. He's really helped some of the young players.

With a healthy Staal, Dubinsky, and Callahan and veterans like Prospal around this team has the leadership it needs to move forward.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
Its the same lineup as this season just with Richards injected. No thanks. its time for younger more skilled players. Prospal needs to go, he cant handle the full season and id much rather try to go after jussi jokinen. Zucca will never play 1st line minutes with richards and gaborik. Plus i think Wolski is bought out to free up another 3m in capspace that can be used to sign other players.
Dear god please, not Jokinnen, please no waiver wire pickups. OMG....why go out of your way to get a mediocre player to put on a top line. c'mon. Lets go for Radek Dvorak or Sergie Samsonov...Carolina goes after CHEAP players, not good ones. Tomas Fleischmann, sure, he oozes legit skill and he's a PM winger...but dear god please not JJ.


Last edited by vipernsx: 04-26-2011 at 09:45 AM.
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Old
04-26-2011, 09:47 AM
  #115
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Or vice versa
I smell a fishing trip coming up...


When's the soonest that RFAs can sign contracts? I'm assuming for guys like Dubi/Cally; their agents are working on it right now, or should be shortly?

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Old
04-26-2011, 09:51 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
I think we need to make a trade to get rid of some redundant pieces. Let's make room for some of the higher-upside prospects coming through our system.

If we can get decent value, I wouldn't mind seeing Anisimov or Boyle traded,
especially if Richards signs here.

Hagelin looks like he's ready for the NHL. Grachev could be a mid-season callup if he continues to develop. Kreider or Thomas could surprise everyone and make the team out of camp (if they sign ELCs).

There's alot of talented youth waiting in the wings on this team. If we can inject at least 1 or 2 rooks into the lineup each season, I would be excited.
You are contradicting yourself.

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04-26-2011, 10:00 AM
  #117
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How does this lineup look?

Prospal-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Stepan-Zuccarello
Hagelin-Anisimov-Callahan
Boyle-FA Center/Werek?-Prust
Avery/Feds

Staal-Girardi
McDonagh-Sauer
Valentenko-Eminger
Gilroy/FA

Lundqvist
Biron



Assuming Richards signs here and Prospal comes back for cheap, I don't think this would be a bad first line.

For my second line, I put Dubi and Steps with Zucc. The way I figure, if Zucc is going to be in the lineup, he needs a big body on his line. Dubi fits the bill quite nicely in that regards. Stepan has a higher ceiling than Anisimov, so I would put him on this line with higher skill players.

Third line could pretty much also be the second line. Hagelin, assuming he's ready, just feels like he would be a good fit with Anisimov and Callahan.

Fourth line would be our tough, grinding line. I really think Boyle should be moved to the wing, but that's just my opinion. Even though you don't expect your 4th line to pot alot of goals, Boyle seems more suited as a finisher than the playmaker that centers are expected to be. Also, this is the line that Prust belongs and will excel on. Prust and Boyle are two of our most important penalty killers, and the reduced minutes that Torts tends to give the 4th line will help them stay fresh for the PK. Their center is kind of a question mark for me. I have no idea if Werek is ready for the NHL, but indications seem to be that he may be. Putting him in a 4th line role with some bangers might help him ease into the league, ala Anisimov with the Shelley-Anisimov-Prust line last year.

Avery and Feds could function as our spares, and releive any of the rooks should they tire at points in the season.

Our top two pairs for defense would remain the same as this past season.

Our third pair would be a nice, cheap, and hard-nosed duo. If V-tank is NHL-ready, he could add a nasty, crease-clearing element to the bottom pair, as well as a booming shot for the PP. Eminger would also provide some grit and speed on the right side if he can be had for cheap. He has also shown that he can sit if needed without adverse effects on his game.

Gilroy and/or a cheap FA vet could be the spare(s). Management seems to be open to resigning Gilroy if the price is right, and Gilroy has shown improvement since he came here. He has also played both RD and LD in the past, making him a good option for a 7th D.

Goaltending tandem remains the same.



Well, that's my lineup for next year. I don't put these things together real often, so go easy on me!

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Old
04-26-2011, 10:07 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
You are contradicting yourself.
How am I contradicting myself?

If we have guys in our system who can reasonably replace either Anisimov of Boyle, and have more upside potential, why would we not consider trading them if the return was decent?

If we could use either one of them to somehow move up in the draft or obtain a high-upside prospect that maybe needs a change of scenery as part of package for them, it would be foolish not to do so.

What we lack in this organization is high-end talent. It only makes sense to trade away some of our depth for it.

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04-26-2011, 10:13 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
How am I contradicting myself?

If we have guys in our system who can reasonably replace either Anisimov of Boyle, and have more upside potential, why would we not consider trading them if the return was decent?

If we could use either one of them to somehow move up in the draft or obtain a high-upside prospect that maybe needs a change of scenery as part of package for them, it would be foolish not to do so.

What we lack in this organization is high-end talent. It only makes sense to trade away some of our depth for it.
I dont think the Rangers are able to trade away many of our guys who we think pretty highly of or whoever the depth guys you are talking about for any sort of return that is more than "depth"

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04-26-2011, 10:22 AM
  #120
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I love Dubi too, but lets be honest and really think about the situation at the time.
Yes, let's do that. Dubi was coming off 40 and 41 point seasons. His AGENT (remember, these guys all have agents who advise them and tell them what they are worth based on similar deals signed by other players) asked for 4 mil per year on a 4 YEAR DEAL (more years = more money per year when you are RFA).

They wanted to work out a longer term deal for more money. Sather wasn't ready to make that kind of commitment to him. It's really as simple as that. Dubi wasn't being greedy. He wasn't overestimating his worth. He was listening to his agent and letting him handle the negotiations, which is what he gets paid to do.

And you'll notice that Staal got almost 4 per year on his 2nd contract, yet no one suggests he should have been happy with less because he didn't end up holding out. Sather was willing to give Staal more money to get him locked up for more years. If Staal had signed only a 2 year deal, you can bet the money would be closer to 2 mil per year.

It's absolutely ridiculous to me that 2 years later people are still holding a grudge over the hold out when they don't even understand the basics of negotiation and how contracts work in the NHL.

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04-26-2011, 10:26 AM
  #121
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I dont think the Rangers are able to trade away many of our guys who we think pretty highly of or whoever the depth guys you are talking about for any sort of return that is more than "depth"
Did you even read my post?

I specifically cited draft picks and prospects. Moving up in the draft helps us get more talented players. I would rather have the chance at getting high-end talent than endless depth. Other teams would rather trade away picks and prospects for a known quantity that fills a hole in their lineup right now. Both teams would benefit. It's not that hard to understand.

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04-26-2011, 10:36 AM
  #122
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Still remember the buzz in the Garden for his first game as a Ranger. Also remember his end to end rush and goal in OT. Too bad his knees were shot...he was a great talent.
Yep. Amazing, amazing player.

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04-26-2011, 10:42 AM
  #123
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Yes, let's do that. Dubi was coming off 40 and 41 point seasons. His AGENT (remember, these guys all have agents who advise them and tell them what they are worth based on similar deals signed by other players) asked for 4 mil per year on a 4 YEAR DEAL (more years = more money per year when you are RFA).

They wanted to work out a longer term deal for more money. Sather wasn't ready to make that kind of commitment to him. It's really as simple as that. Dubi wasn't being greedy. He wasn't overestimating his worth. He was listening to his agent and letting him handle the negotiations, which is what he gets paid to do.

And you'll notice that Staal got almost 4 per year on his 2nd contract, yet no one suggests he should have been happy with less because he didn't end up holding out. Sather was willing to give Staal more money to get him locked up for more years. If Staal had signed only a 2 year deal, you can bet the money would be closer to 2 mil per year.

It's absolutely ridiculous to me that 2 years later people are still holding a grudge over the hold out when they don't even understand the basics of negotiation and how contracts work in the NHL.
I understand what you are saying, I'm not holding a grudge against him, just simply said I'm happy to see him saying he wants to get it done quickly this time instead of holding out until September.

Although calling him a ****** for it, I don't mean he is a ******, I just think he should have known he isn't worth that kind of money.

I love Duby and I'm just happy to see he will be locked up quickly and easily with no hassles.

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04-26-2011, 10:53 AM
  #124
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Would any of these things have to do with hockey?
Very good, but yeah why not? Not bad for a fourth line if you ask me.

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04-26-2011, 10:53 AM
  #125
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What price ranges are we looking at with Dubinsky, Callahan, Sauer, Boyle, and Anisimov?

Dubinsky: 4 mil
Callahan: 3.5 mil
Boyle: 2 mil
Anisimov: 2 mil
Sauer: 1.5 mil

???

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