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Keep your Guts & Heart, I'll take skill any day.

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Old
04-26-2011, 01:36 PM
  #101
allstar3970
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Nice. Too large to put out as signature, I guess. Yet it should be shown more often as an educational piece.
The same goes for playoff performance. It seems the ONLY reason why somebody might underperform over the small sample size that playoffs are is "He couldn't handle the grind and pressure when the games really matter!!"

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04-26-2011, 01:56 PM
  #102
Vito Andolini
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You give Kane to Torts and he will zherdev him out. You give Z to laviolette and he would make a playoff performer out of him.

If Hossa wasn't wanted by PIT so bad, Christ would have had a Stanley Cup ring. It depends who is your coach very much.
The sooner they rid of Torts the sooner we will have skill players. With Torts Stepan and Kreider will become plumbers. That is all he can do. Great bottom 6 developer.
Nonsense as usual...

I guess St. Louis, Lecavalier, Richards & Boyle were nothing but plumbers. Either that or they were skill players that had an actual commitment to doing the work needed to win, rather than coasting like your boy Zherdev.

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04-26-2011, 02:00 PM
  #103
BlueshirtBlitz
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Just wondering, who are these players that Torts turned into "plumbers" besides Gaborik?

Because Stepan putting up 40 points as a rookie and Dubi hitting career highs seems to tell me the opposite.

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04-26-2011, 06:16 PM
  #104
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Bring back the same team and the Rangers will be battling for a playoff spot. Maybe the team catches a good match up and someone gets hot and the Rangers can win a round. That's about it.

Can grinders alone win? Nope. Can a few stars win without the grinders? Nope.

Do I expect Gaborik to bounce back? Did he play injured? If not than he has little left. I suspect that there are lT injuries that are affecting his game. I'm not counting on him to lead the offense.

I'll be kind and say that the Rangers have a very respectable 2nd,3rd and 4th lines.

A real first line is needed. It couldn't hurt the PP.

The D? Need a Player with a shot from the point who is not a liability on Defense.

Should be a fun off season.

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04-27-2011, 03:24 PM
  #105
Brian Boyle
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If you would have come into the argument using players other than Gaborik, Wolski and Christensen, I might have listened.

I don't see those three leading a team to the Stanley Cup any time soon.

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04-27-2011, 04:29 PM
  #106
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People seem to not take into account the most important thing from this season. If our young guns are as good as promised and shown they'll only be better next year.

That means more goals from: Stepan, Anisomov, a healthy Cally and Dubi, MDZ, MZA, Gilroy (possibly)

We have the pieces, let them grow, the fact we hit the playoffs is a bonus.

I haven't watched Kreider much but we need a producing veteran on our team right now TO SET AN EXAMPLE and allow our kids to continue to develop.

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04-27-2011, 05:09 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Don't want to start a war, but enough with 4 3rd lines already.


Watching our plumbers playing their hearts out to no avail was not satisfying. To those of you who are pining to get rid of Gaborik, Wolski and Christiansen I say you're doomed to never seeing us win a Cup. I realize these three did not deliver, but relying on Boyle, Prust and Captain Valium to carry you is a recipe for disaster.

Heart and Guts is good, skill trumps both.

Flame away!
i loved prust's play all season long... but seeing HIM covering ovechkin (resulted in a goal obv)-- and during a playoff series; that really irked me.

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04-28-2011, 08:31 AM
  #108
94now
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Nonsense as usual...

I guess St. Louis, Lecavalier, Richards & Boyle were nothing but plumbers. Either that or they were skill players that had an actual commitment to doing the work needed to win, rather than coasting like your boy Zherdev.
Manipulation as usual...

Talent always coasts. Plumbers sweating all the time. Hockey or not. Hard working talent is a fairytale, a dream to achieve, a carrot placed in front of the horse.
When talented player is not productive, it is coach's fault, result of his inability to come up with correct combination of personnel, tactic and strategy. In TB Torts succeeded because of many factors least of which was his work with highlighted performers. They were good dispite Torts. He should be credited for his work with plumbers, Torts has always been excellent there.

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04-28-2011, 11:57 AM
  #109
Vito Andolini
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Talent always coasts. Plumbers sweating all the time. Hockey or not. Hard working talent is a fairytale, a dream to achieve, a carrot placed in front of the horse.
Talent coasts...on losing teams. Winning teams aren't led by players that coast. Crosby doesn't coast. Datsyuk & Zetterberg don't coast. Hossa & Toews don't coast. St. Louis & Lecavalier don't either.


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In TB Torts succeeded because of many factors least of which was his work with highlighted performers. They were good dispite Torts. He should be credited for his work with plumbers, Torts has always been excellent there.
Somehow all of these players that succeeded despite Tortorella credit him with helping get their games to another level...makes no sense, does it?

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04-28-2011, 01:21 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I totally agree, but, two problems:

1) we backed into the playoffs. The Canes win we're watching.

2) finishing 14th - 16th EVERY year guarantees we won't get a Kane, or Hossa. Maybe a Zetterberg if we're Hank lucky again.

The "style" the coach preaches is not conducive to a long run because your players are gassed ad banged up given their style of play. During the Renney "five in the picture" days we regularly led the league in least man games lost to injuries.
Well I'd rather have another Hank or Zetts than those two also Hossa was drafted at 12 so i don't get what you are trying to say.

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Old
04-28-2011, 10:41 PM
  #111
94now
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Talent coasts...on losing teams. Winning teams aren't led by players that coast. Crosby doesn't coast. Datsyuk & Zetterberg don't coast. Hossa & Toews don't coast. St. Louis & Lecavalier don't either.
Datsyuk and Toews are two way centers, they must work to do their job. Zetteberg is power forward,when power forward not working hard, the opposition is credited for good job against him. You, therefore, often cannot tell...
Hossa and Lecavalier have been called that many times.The only one comparable to Z would be MSL. He is by a mile better. Even if players like Z were callahans at heart, none would be able to exceed, simply not as much talent. I do not value Crosby much, sorry. True, he is a hard worker, yes, but I would rather have StLuis on my team? Crosby puts a lot of effort in practice. Look at him at the game, live not TV. You will notice he floats around a lot.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Somehow all of these players that succeeded despite Tortorella credit him with helping get their games to another level...makes no sense, does it?
That is true, but it still not clear whether that level was higher.

The conversation could be endless. You do need both. But there is always primary and secondary aspects in any duos. Talent will never agree being secondary, never. The fact that Rangers are talentless is result of it. Torts is at fault, IMO. Big time.

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Old
04-28-2011, 11:12 PM
  #112
gravytrain6t
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Manipulation as usual...

Talent always coasts. Plumbers sweating all the time. Hockey or not. Hard working talent is a fairytale, a dream to achieve, a carrot placed in front of the horse.
When talented player is not productive, it is coach's fault, result of his inability to come up with correct combination of personnel, tactic and strategy. In TB Torts succeeded because of many factors least of which was his work with highlighted performers. They were good dispite Torts. He should be credited for his work with plumbers, Torts has always been excellent there.
Oh, so Torts doesn't work well with talented plumbers, just your ordinary plumber who hustles but is the type you're always calling back because something is still f##### up?....I see what you're saying. I couldn't disagree more!!

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