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Official 2011 NFL Thread (Are you ready for some Footbaaaaalllalllalll!!!!!) *Part I*

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Old
04-26-2011, 10:10 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Agreed. The Iggles are LETHAL at times. They have their holes and are very beatable, but when they are firing on all cylinders, they are one of the best teams in the league.
Agreed. Consistency is Philly's biggest problem. That and the holes they have on defense
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
As much as it pains me to say it, outside of Vick, I just can't agree.

Good thing is, in the NFL these days you win by having an elite level QB which they do not have.
As if Manning is elite? Vick is much better than him and has a better supporting cast. I think some of you Giants fans are still under the impression Vick is a scrambler in Philadelphia. Did you watch him last year?

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04-26-2011, 10:11 PM
  #52
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Think Carolina is gonna make a big mistake with drafting Cam Newton 1st overall, guy just screams Vince Young.

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04-26-2011, 10:13 PM
  #53
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Because he is not the type of QB you will ever see leading a team to a SB victory. I really don't remember any QB who was remotely like him winning a SB. I don't think he's smart enough to win one, first and foremost. I also don't think he'll ever stay healthy enough to be a major factor deep in the playoffs. He takes an absolute POUNDING.
Steve Young is a similar player, in my opinion. He does take a pounding, yes but that's the same amount due to Philly having a bad OL aside from Peters and Herremans (who aren't protecting his blind side), as it does Vick's playing style.

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04-26-2011, 10:13 PM
  #54
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Vick has only hit 3,000 yards passing once in his career. He has won a grand total of 2 playoff games in his career.

Manning has 3000+ yards in 6 straight years, and 4000 the last 2. Not to mention was a super bowl MVP.

Yes, Manning is an elite quarterback.

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04-26-2011, 10:14 PM
  #55
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I'm still worried about this 'act of throwing the ball' potential rule for hitting the QB. Anyone know what the story is with that?

That was more hot air than anything, not much to worry about.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...r-safety-rules

This is the new rule:

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Illegal acts that jeopardize the safety of players will not be tolerated. The League will continue to stress enforcement of the personal foul rules, with special emphasis on the unnecessary roughness and roughing the passer rules that prohibit hits on players in defenseless positions, including passers in the act of passing, receivers in the process of attempting to catch a pass, a runner whose forward progress has been stopped and is already in the grasp of a tackler, a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick, and a player on the ground at the end of a play
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...r-safety-rules

Quote:
NFL rules provide special protection to defenseless players, by prohibiting (a) hits delivered to their head or neck area by an opponent with his helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder, and (b) hits delivered by an opponent with his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/"hairline" parts) against any part of the defenseless player's body (i.e., "butting, spearing, or ramming" a defenseless player.)

Defenseless players are defined as (a) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
It's just a re-wording won't have any real effect.

The only real change is that a player is more likely to be suspended now, rather than fined.

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04-26-2011, 10:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
As if Manning is elite? Vick is much better than him and has a better supporting cast. I think some of you Giants fans are still under the impression Vick is a scrambler in Philadelphia. Did you watch him last year?
Manning might not be completely elite in skills, but there are few players with more mental toughness and clutch ability than him in the league. He is the king of 4th quarter comebacks. Is he amazing? Not at all. But I'd take him over Vick 11 times out of 10.

And Vick is much better than him? Laughable.

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04-26-2011, 10:16 PM
  #57
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Think of it as Marc-Andre Fleury versus Tim Thomas, if you will.

Talented, fragile, enigmatic and inconsistant versus above average, clutch, champion player.

Which one would you take for a run to the cup?

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04-26-2011, 10:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Steve Young is a similar player, in my opinion. He does take a pounding, yes but that's the same amount due to Philly having a bad OL aside from Peters and Herremans (who aren't protecting his blind side), as it does Vick's playing style.
Vick is similar to Steve Young? Are you sure you are talking about the same Vick? The guy who has surpassed 3000 yards once in his career? Horrendous comparison.

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04-26-2011, 10:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Think of it as Marc-Andre Fleury versus Tim Thomas, if you will.

Talented, fragile, enigmatic and inconsistant versus above average, clutch, champion player.

Which one would you take for a run to the cup?
Wait, isn't MAF the talented crazy one? He actually won a Cup, while Timmah is on the verge of being knocked out.

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Old
04-26-2011, 10:18 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
As if Manning is elite? Vick is much better than him and has a better supporting cast. I think some of you Giants fans are still under the impression Vick is a scrambler in Philadelphia. Did you watch him last year?
I'm not a Giants fan, Packers fan.

And yes I did watch him. He is not elite nor is Manning. There are exceptions to the rule.

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04-26-2011, 10:18 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
I'm not a Giants fan, Packers fan.

And yes I did watch him. He is not elite nor is Manning. There are exceptions to the rule.
Agreed. Manning is elite in certain aspects (the ones that tend to win championships), but is not an overall elite QB.

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04-26-2011, 10:19 PM
  #62
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I think Fluery and Eli are pretty comparable. Both 1st overall picks who had big playoffs to win championships, big expectations, and both get knocked for being "carried" to championships by their teams.

Of course, MAF didn't win the Conn Smythe

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04-26-2011, 10:19 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Manning might not be completely elite in skills, but there are few players with more mental toughness and clutch ability than him in the league. He is the king of 4th quarter comebacks. Is he amazing? Not at all. But I'd take him over Vick 11 times out of 10.

And Vick is much better than him? Laughable.
Mike Vick lead the Eagles back last year in games against the Cowboys, Colts, Giants twice including a miracle 28 points in 7 minutes, almost against the Bears and Packers twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Vick has only hit 3,000 yards passing once in his career. He has won a grand total of 2 playoff games in his career.

Manning has 3000+ yards in 6 straight years, and 4000 the last 2. Not to mention was a super bowl MVP.

Yes, Manning is an elite quarterback.
True, but look at Manning's targets throughout his career. Toomer, Burress, Smith, Shockey, Boss, Nicks. Vick spent his first 6 years throwing to Alge Crumpler and being a run-first QB. How soon we forget that...And ATL was a mainly running team with Dunn and Duckett

When Vick has Jackson, Maclin and Celek to throw to, he throws 21 TD and 6 INT, with 3,000 yards. Funny how that works.

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04-26-2011, 10:20 PM
  #64
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The Eagles completely laid an egg against the Vikings, sure. They played their 2nd and 3rd stringers against the Cowboys because they had the third seed wrapped up. GB outplayed them in the WC Round, but again the Eagles were close to beating them at the end. That's an unfair statement. The Eagles also had an extremely banged up Offensive Line, which isn't even good when healthy.
They were close to beating them based upon their defense playing well, and the Packers not driving the knife through to kill them earlier, not upon being able to move the ball.

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04-26-2011, 10:21 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Mike Vick lead the Eagles back last year in games against the Cowboys, Colts, Giants twice including a miracle 28 points in 7 minutes, almost against the Bears and Packers twice.
Oh boy. Manning lead the Giants back in a game against the Patriots. A pretty important one, really. I forget -- was Vick in jail then or was he still fighting dogs?

Come on, man. Vick is a regular season hero. Nothing more, nothing less.

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04-26-2011, 10:22 PM
  #66
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Vick is similar to Steve Young? Are you sure you are talking about the same Vick? The guy who has surpassed 3000 yards once in his career? Horrendous comparison.
In Reid's offense, yes.

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04-26-2011, 10:23 PM
  #67
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In the NFL, being a top QB is usually something that takes a SB championship, or at the very least an appearance, to verify.

How many of the best QB's do you hear about that never made the super bowl?

Recent winners like Tom Brady, Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Big Ben, these guys are seen as the elites of our generation.

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04-26-2011, 10:23 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Oh boy. Manning lead the Giants back in a game against the Patriots. A pretty important one, really. I forget -- was Vick in jail then or was he still fighting dogs?

Come on, man. Vick is a regular season hero. Nothing more, nothing less.
You were knocking Vick based on comeback-ability. Never said that Manning wasn't a great 4th quarter player, because he is.

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Old
04-26-2011, 10:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
In the NFL, being a top QB is usually something that takes a SB championship, or at the very least an appearance, to verify.

How many of the best QB's do you hear about that never made the super bowl?

Recent winners like Tom Brady, Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Big Ben, these guys are seen as the elites of our generation.
Why is Eli ahead of Brees and Rodgers?

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04-26-2011, 10:26 PM
  #70
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Ive got Rodgers there, Brees I forgot to add, but he should be on that list as well.

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04-26-2011, 10:27 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
In the NFL, being a top QB is usually something that takes a SB championship, or at the very least an appearance, to verify.

How many of the best QB's do you hear about that never made the super bowl?

Recent winners like Tom Brady, Peyton, Eli, Rodgers, Big Ben, these guys are seen as the elites of our generation.
Eli is not an elite QB, if that's what you're saying. Otherwise I am misunderstanding.

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04-26-2011, 10:30 PM
  #72
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Ive got Rodgers there, Brees I forgot to add, but he should be on that list as well.
Missed him, sorry. Unless you edited. Regardless, I don't think anyone aside from Giants fans consider Eli an elite of his generation.

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04-26-2011, 10:31 PM
  #73
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I'm saying in this generation, with 32 teams in the league that is very dynasty friendly, winning the super bowl pretty much makes you an elite quarterback.

Its not like Eli's regular season stats are anything to scoff at, either.

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04-26-2011, 10:36 PM
  #74
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So Trent Dilfer was an elite QB?

His regular season numbers are not good at all, I don't know where you're getting that. He turns the ball over way to often.

Eli should never be mentioned in the same breath as his brother, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

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04-26-2011, 10:38 PM
  #75
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So, going back to the beginning of this thread...

The Giants allowed Chris Canty in to work out, but have since said players will no longer be allowed to work out until the league provides the teams with further clarification on how to operate. Players are still allowed to enter the facility, just not train or talk football.

The Jets allowed players to enter the facility, but the training rooms were shut down and no staff was present in the facility. No one is allowed to work out.

What's the big deal? The Giants allowed one player in to exercise and then reversed course, whereas the Jets allowed no one in, so the Jets are cheap ********? Everything I have read indicates that teams such as the Jets that refused access to training equipment did so at the directive of the NFL, largely in part to liability concerns.

If you guys want to praise the Giants for allowing one player to work out before changing course, fine. Go right ahead. But don't kill the Jets for following the league's directive like the vast majority of other franchises. Especially because some guy on the radio speculates it's because they didn't want to pay Ferguson's bonus--which, from what I've read, will be paid to him regardless.

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