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Official 2011 NFL Thread (Are you ready for some Footbaaaaalllalllalll!!!!!) *Part I*

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Old
04-26-2011, 09:40 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section 409 View Post
So Trent Dilfer was an elite QB?

His regular season numbers are not good at all, I don't know where you're getting that. He turns the ball over way to often.

Eli should never be mentioned in the same breath as his brother, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.
Like this guy said, Manning turns the ball over too much and most of his career he's had better receivers than Vick, played a different offense, and had a good coach while Vick was stuck with Mora.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I'm saying in this generation, with 32 teams in the league that is very dynasty friendly, winning the super bowl pretty much makes you an elite quarterback.

Its not like Eli's regular season stats are anything to scoff at, either.
Guys like Dilfer and Johnson weren't elite. There's been a recent run of great QB's winning championships, but that doesn't mean its always the case.

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04-26-2011, 09:41 PM
  #77
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150 tds in 5 seasons.

80+ passer rating

I'm pretty sure about 25 of the NFL teams would love to have Eli as the starting QB. Exceptions including Brady, Brees, Peyton, Big Ben, Rodgers. Maybe Rivers or Schaub, but remember that these are guys that have never won anything. Don't make me laugh by mentioning Romo or Flacco.

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04-26-2011, 09:44 PM
  #78
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I think the following teams are more than happy at QB:

NE, NYJ, BAL (Flacco is 26 and has only played three years), PIT, HOU, IND, SD, PHI, GB, DET(if Stafford stays healthy he's a great talent), ATL (again, Ryan's played three years, and is only 26), NO, TB (Freeman had an outstanding season), and STL. That's roughly half the league.

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04-26-2011, 09:48 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Like this guy said, Manning turns the ball over too much and most of his career he's had better receivers than Vick, played a different offense, and had a good coach while Vick was stuck with Mora.


Guys like Dilfer and Johnson weren't elite. There's been a recent run of great QB's winning championships, but that doesn't mean its always the case.
I hate when people compare Dilfer and Johnson to Eli. Eli is worlds better than they were.

While Fitzy may have been overrating Eli, now a bunch of you are underrating him.

He's a solid QB. He's not elite, but he's not bad or a non factor. When the guys on his game he can shred defenses apart.

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04-26-2011, 09:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
I think the following teams are more than happy at QB:

NE, NYJ, BAL (Flacco is 26 and has only played three years), PIT, HOU, IND, SD, PHI, GB, DET(if Stafford stays healthy he's a great talent), ATL (again, Ryan's played three years, and is only 26), NO, TB (Freeman had an outstanding season), and STL. That's roughly half the league.
You're telling me you think the Jets, Lions, Buccs, Rams and Falcons wouldn't trade their QB's instantly for Eli if they had the chance? Sorry but you're seriously undervaluing Manning.

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04-26-2011, 09:51 PM
  #81
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Giants gotta tow the league policy, I guess. Kind of retarded. I am sure their coaches will talk football with the boys, though. Just have to put on the face that they are going to tow the ******** of the league.

Either way, a bit PR hit lost because of that. Should have continued to be the lone team allowing workouts. Silly.

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04-26-2011, 09:52 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
You're telling me you think the Jets, Lions, Buccs, Rams and Falcons wouldn't trade their QB's instantly for Eli if they had the chance? Sorry but you're seriously undervaluing Manning.
Manning sucks. All of those QBs have won more and are clearly better. My God when will Giants fans learn.

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04-26-2011, 09:53 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
You're telling me you think the Jets, Lions, Buccs, Rams and Falcons wouldn't trade their QB's instantly for Eli if they had the chance? Sorry but you're seriously undervaluing Manning.
Why would Atlanta move Matt Ryan, or Tampa move Josh Freeman?

In a vacuum, I'm sure the Jets would take Eli over Sanchez. But they've invested a lot in Mark, and would not move him. They've made him the centerpiece of their franchise.

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04-26-2011, 09:54 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
You're telling me you think the Jets, Lions, Buccs, Rams and Falcons wouldn't trade their QB's instantly for Eli if they had the chance? Sorry but you're seriously undervaluing Manning.
4/5 teams mentioned have 1st or second year QB's so not really relevent. No way does Atlanta move Ryan for Eli.

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04-26-2011, 09:55 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Manning sucks. All of those QBs have won more and are clearly better. My God when will Giants fans learn.
You're right, he's the best QB in the league.

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Old
04-26-2011, 09:56 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
150 tds in 5 seasons.

80+ passer rating

I'm pretty sure about 25 of the NFL teams would love to have Eli as the starting QB. Exceptions including Brady, Brees, Peyton, Big Ben, Rodgers. Maybe Rivers or Schaub, but remember that these are guys that have never won anything. Don't make me laugh by mentioning Romo or Flacco.
Strictly in terms of regular season numbers Romo blows him out of the water.

That being said, QB rating below 90 in today's NFL are very average numbers. In fact the 13th ranked QB had a 90.8 rating, Eli was number 17 with an 85.3.

Ever since the illegal contact rule came into play, QB numbers have skyrocketed, especially ratings. So his career 80.6 rating is pretty low.

Also the 150 TD's came in six seasons, not five. In that same time span he had a 104 INT's and LOST 26 fumbles turning it over 130 times. That's not alarming to you?

To be an elite QB you really should have a QB rating of a least 95.0. Plus, in my eyes winning a championship is more a team achievement than individual. Eli's playoff numbers are also average. The guy is flat-out overrated.

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04-26-2011, 09:56 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
150 tds in 5 seasons.

80+ passer rating

I'm pretty sure about 25 of the NFL teams would love to have Eli as the starting QB. Exceptions including Brady, Brees, Peyton, Big Ben, Rodgers. Maybe Rivers or Schaub, but remember that these are guys that have never won anything. Don't make me laugh by mentioning Romo or Flacco.
Strictly in terms of regular season numbers Romo blows him out of the water.

That being said, QB rating below 90 in today's NFL are very average numbers. In fact the 13th ranked QB had a 90.8 rating, Eli was number 17 with an 85.3.


Ever since the illegal contact rule came into play, QB numbers have skyrocketed, especially ratings. So his career 80.6 rating is pretty low.

Also the 150 TD's came in six seasons, not five. In that same time span he had a 104 INT's and LOST 26 fumbles turning it over 130 times. That's not alarming to you?

To be an elite QB you really should have a QB rating of a least 95.0. Plus, in my eyes winning a championship is more a team achievement than individual. Eli's playoff numbers are also average. The guy is flat-out overrated.

EDIT: Sorry mods, I doubled. You you delete one of these?


Last edited by Section 409: 04-26-2011 at 10:03 PM.
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Old
04-26-2011, 09:57 PM
  #88
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Fitzy, why would any of those teams swap their 23-26 year old who have played 1-3 years for a 30 year old who isn't a superstar?

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04-26-2011, 09:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
Based on what? Philly has the surrounding talent offensively


The Eagles completely laid an egg against the Vikings, sure. They played their 2nd and 3rd stringers against the Cowboys because they had the third seed wrapped up. GB outplayed them in the WC Round, but again the Eagles were close to beating them at the end. That's an unfair statement. The Eagles also had an extremely banged up Offensive Line, which isn't even good when healthy.


Again, based on what?

They're incredibly overrated. If Mike Vick was god's gift to the NFL like some were saying he wouldn't have lost his first game in the playoffs. The team is dangerous when they fire on all cylinders as Jon says, but guess what? So are most other NFL teams. They have yet to prove to me that they will be SB contenders. There are better teams and I think the Giants are equivalent to them- it took one of the biggest chokes of the year for them to clinch to NFC east instead of us. If it takes a choke like that, I doubt one team is infinitely better than another.

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04-26-2011, 09:58 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers1024 View Post
You're right, he's the best QB in the league.
Is anyone here saying that? At all?

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04-26-2011, 10:01 PM
  #91
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Quote:
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Is anyone here saying that? At all?
Is anyone saying that those other quarterbacks are clearly better and have won more, and that Giants fans will never learn?

The answer to your question and mine is the same: no. So what's the point in building straw men?

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04-26-2011, 10:01 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
You're telling me you think the Jets, Lions, Buccs, Rams and Falcons wouldn't trade their QB's instantly for Eli if they had the chance? Sorry but you're seriously undervaluing Manning.
Rams- No, Bradford is excellent, kid has all the tools.
Falcons-Ryan is also overrated, but no Ryan is still good.
Jets-Yeah I can see that.
Lions-With an always injured QB, yeah.
Bucs-Have you watched Freeman? Another excellent QB in the making.

You're overvaluing Manning, as most people in the area do.

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04-26-2011, 10:01 PM
  #93
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Also, can we not forget that Manning also went one and done 3 times, twice losing to Philadelphia. You'd think if he was that great, he could've lead them to the playoffs the last two years, and made deeper playoff runs.

Fact of the matter is, based on everything else in the last 6 years, the Giants' Super Bowl run was more of an aberration than a trend.

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04-26-2011, 10:03 PM
  #94
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BB, the Giants also got embarrassed the following week against the Packers. After that, pressure was off the Eagles. They probably could have won 11 or 12 games.

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04-26-2011, 10:03 PM
  #95
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Anyone that calls a super bowl win an "aberration" basically means that it was a "fluke"

Which is... uhh... it shows some underlying dislike for the organization. I'll say that.

Last place I hear that is Isles fans referring to 1994.

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04-26-2011, 10:05 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Is anyone saying that those other quarterbacks are clearly better and have won more, and that Giants fans will never learn?

The answer to your question and mine is the same: no. So what's the point in building straw men?
I am in agreement with more Jets fans on this than with Fitzy, if you read my posts. I don't find Manning to be elite at all, overall. Very good, yes.

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04-26-2011, 10:05 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Anyone that calls a super bowl win an "aberration" basically means that it was a "fluke"

Which is... uhh... it shows some underlying dislike for the organization. I'll say that.

Last place I hear that is Isles fans referring to 1994.
An aberration is a deviation from the normal. A fluke is an accidental occurrence. There's a big difference.

Anyway, the Giants SB win was neither fluke nor aberration.

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04-26-2011, 10:06 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
BB, the Giants also got embarrassed the following week against the Packers. After that, pressure was off the Eagles. They probably could have won 11 or 12 games.
Exactly, a choke. Which HAS been the trend with this franchise in the second half of seasons, unfortunately.

That being said, all around I believe the Eagles and Giants are two similar teams and the Giants easily could come out of the NFC East this year.

And also put me in the bandwagon of Eli being a fine QB but not elite.

The fact is, though, we have a ring in our lifetime to be thankful for.

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04-26-2011, 10:07 PM
  #99
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Is anyone here saying that? At all?
Is anyone saying he was trash like you were insinuating?? No.

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04-26-2011, 10:07 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Anyone that calls a super bowl win an "aberration" basically means that it was a "fluke"

Which is... uhh... it shows some underlying dislike for the organization. I'll say that.

Last place I hear that is Isles fans referring to 1994.
An aberration. What will they think of next? I guess all teams that win championships without dynasties are all aberrations.

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