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04-27-2011, 10:02 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
your exact words were "if the fate of this team hung on one guy, it's still in pretty bad shape."

To me, that's an incredibly naive thing to say. the fate of EVERY franchise hangs on 1 guy. Take the top, or 2nd best guy off of any team and their "fate" as you said can be radically different.

is it possible to get top talent outside of the top 5? sure. but is it easier to win a raffle with 1 ticket? or with 1000 tickets? take a look at the list of the top 50 offensive players in the NHL, how many of them were drafted after the top 10?
I 100% agree with you. Cherepanov was putting up simliar numbers to that of Ovechkin and Kovalchuk when they played in the KHL at the same age.

Take an Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Kane etc off their teams and the balance of that organization does change completely.

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04-27-2011, 10:02 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Thrashers haven't been great drafting, but they haven't been all that awful either
Pretty much all of their good draft picks were within the top 10 and pretty "easy" picks. Outside of their top 10 picks they've done pretty mediocre.

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04-27-2011, 10:12 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I think Kreider has that potential...but potential isn't enough. You need to realize that potential. Kreider has a very high ceiling, and a nice floor to his game, but right now hes playing at a level closer to his floor then his ceiling...hes a kid, he'll improve, how much? well who knows. either way none of the players in our organization are close to being franchise players at the moment. NONE.
Marc Staal says "hi".

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04-27-2011, 10:20 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
potential...but potential isn't enough. You need to realize that potential.
That's why I can't liken the Cherepanov situation to removing a Crosby, Malkin, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc from their teams.

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04-27-2011, 10:22 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
is it possible to get top talent outside of the top 5? sure. but is it easier to win a raffle with 1 ticket? or with 1000 tickets? take a look at the list of the top 50 offensive players in the NHL, how many of them were drafted after the top 10?

This franchise has all the money in the world. They can put endless resources into scouting. "It's difficult" is not an excuse. Not when other teams do it

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04-27-2011, 10:26 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Marc Staal says "hi".
i was talking about prospects/1st or 2nd year players.

i mean clearly Staal, Gabby and Henrik are all franchise type players

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04-27-2011, 10:29 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This franchise has all the money in the world. They can put endless resources into scouting. "It's difficult" is not an excuse. Not when other teams do it
Exactly. The right GM's can do it. The wrong GM's win two playoff series in 12 years.

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04-27-2011, 10:37 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This franchise has all the money in the world. They can put endless resources into scouting. "It's difficult" is not an excuse. Not when other teams do it
That's a great point. We have been lousy, L O U S Y, at assessing talent for years. Recently we've been better (somewhat), but the current configuration of this team is the result of years of bad management.

SBOB has been dead on with his posts IMO.

Again, I say the NY press is remiss in THEIR responsibility to call out Sather the way they do the Giants, Jets etc.

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04-27-2011, 10:41 AM
  #34
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People *****ing about the draft REALLY skew things to try to defend their baseless argument.

The Rangers have had picks not pan out, as if it's an anomaly exclusive to the New York Rangers.

Let's try pointing out the picks, undrafted free agents, and trade acquisitions that have worked out.

Lundqvist
Staal
Girardi
Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Stepan
McDonagh
Sauer
Del Zotto (37 points as a 19 year old)
Boyle

McIlrath is 18. Kreider is 19. Grachev is 20. Del Zotto is 20.

Thomas, Hagelin, Valentenko... these guys can still make an impact.

Some guys who went on and had good careers: Dominic Moore, Fedor Tyutin, Marek Zidlicky.

Dan Blackburn was on his way to becoming a franchise goaltender, he got injured, not the Rangers fault.

Cherepanov died, not the Rangers fault.

Prucha had a couple of very good seasons.

Montoya, Korpikoski, Sanguinetti, Jessiman didn't work out...GET OVER IT.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html

Haw many of these names in the NHL Draft didn't make it?

The Rangers have done very well in the draft the last few years.

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04-27-2011, 10:41 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
That's a great point. We have been lousy, L O U S Y, at assessing talent for years. Recently we've been better (somewhat), but the current configuration of this team is the result of years of bad management.

SBOB has been dead on with his posts IMO.

Again, I say the NY press is remiss in THEIR responsibility to call out Sather the way they do the Giants, Jets etc.
Yeah...where is Larry Brooks when you need him most?

Won't help get rid of Sather, but would be nice to read anyway.

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04-27-2011, 10:43 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
People *****ing about the draft REALLY skew things to try to defend their baseless argument.

The Rangers have had picks not pan out, as if it's an anomaly exclusive to the New York Rangers.

Let's try pointing out the picks, undrafted free agents, and trade acquisitions that have worked out.

Lundqvist
Staal
Girardi
Dubinsky
Callahan
Anisimov
Stepan
McDonagh
Sauer
Del Zotto (37 points as a 19 year old)
Boyle

McIlrath is 18. Kreider is 19. Grachev is 20. Del Zotto is 20.

Thomas, Hagelin, Valentenko... these guys can still make an impact.

Some guys who went on and had good careers: Dominic Moore, Fedor Tyutin, Marek Zidlicky.

Dan Blackburn was on his way to becoming a franchise goaltender, he got injured, not the Rangers fault.

Cherepanov died, not the Rangers fault.

Prucha had a couple of very good seasons.

Montoya, Korpikoski, Sanguinetti, Jessiman didn't work out...GET OVER IT.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html

Haw many of these names in the NHL Draft didn't make it?

The Rangers have done very well in the draft the last few years.
yep...and how many of our picks have been duds since GC took over?

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04-27-2011, 10:43 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This franchise has all the money in the world. They can put endless resources into scouting. "It's difficult" is not an excuse. Not when other teams do it
Oh please.

Do your self a favor and look at draft history and please show everyone how GREAT every other team in the league is at drafting.

There's a reason less then 1% make it to the NHL and even less become stars.

Because IT'S DIFFICULT.

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04-27-2011, 10:44 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
yep...and how many of our picks have been duds since GC took over?
How many picks by EVERY team have been duds.

Clark has done very well.


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04-27-2011, 10:44 AM
  #39
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http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/index.html

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04-27-2011, 10:45 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Oh please.

Do your self a favor and look at draft history and please show everyone how GREAT every other team in the league is at drafting.

There's a reason less then 1% make it to the NHL and even less become stars.

Because IT'S HARD.
And it seems to be A LOT HARDER for some teams than it is for others...

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04-27-2011, 10:45 AM
  #41
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I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. We've got 2 excellent young centers in Ani and Steps, who haven't even begun to hit their stride.

Will they be a #1 superstar C? Maybe, maybe not, but I like how they're moving along. Behind defense, Center is the hardest position to learn.

I also disagree with the drafting part. Kreider is imo going to be a speed demon, and I honestly think McI will be a mean shut down puck clearing top 4 defenseman. Something every team needs and we currently lack.

We blew it with Jessiman. But I believe we've been doing a good job in the past few years. If we can fill out a second/third line, and get the bad contracts off the books, I'm ok with filling in our 1st with vets as long as they perform to their contract.

I'm on the fence about Richards, but I'm starting to warm to the idea of him playing here.

First of all, let me just say that I really appreciate a post like this. No need to respond to someone you disagree with by calling the poster "assinine", "clueless", "retarded" etc etc. So thank you for not acting like a 12yo, with all due respect to those of you who actaully ARE 12yo.

Anyway, I really like Ani and Step and I don't want to be negative, but I don't see them becoming top-line centers. Just more hard-working good players, which make up the bulk of our forwrd lines..

Kreider might be a spped demon, but is he going to score? Is he going to have the kind of impact we need.

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04-27-2011, 10:47 AM
  #42
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And it seems to be A LOT HARDER for some teams than it is for others...
Spare me.

Come out of your box and do some research.

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04-27-2011, 10:48 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's why I can't liken the Cherepanov situation to removing a Crosby, Malkin, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc from their teams.
I understand that you cant liken the situation of cherepanov to losing a guy like crosby, malkin, or ovechkin. but what your failing to realize is that this kid was playing with men in the same league that all these russian superstars were playing in. During his time there, he played at a YOUNGER age than ovechkin or malkin and jagr, and his numbers were BETTER than theirs.

The kid was a franchise type player and couldve, shouldve, been our crosby, ovechkin, or Jagr. But thats in the past and we need to look forward to the present and future, and put more money into finding the right scouts to be sent out in order to draft some future stars for us.

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04-27-2011, 10:51 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Spare me.

Come out of your box and do some research.
Yeah, let's research how many playoff series the Rangers have won under Sather, compared to how many other teams have won during his tenure. That's really what it comes down to.

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04-27-2011, 10:53 AM
  #45
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By the way, the reason why the Pens are so stacked with good players is because when you draft in the top 5 for 5years straight, its kinda hard to miss out on highly touted prospects such as Fluery, Malkin, and Crosby.

Plus the caps were in the same situation top 5 for a couple of years straight, and drafted Ovechkin, Semin, backstrom.

If the Rangers had done what they did then they would have these types of players. But we are taking a page out of the redwings, and slowly building a franchise that is respected and hopefully in the next 1-3years be cup contenders

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04-27-2011, 10:54 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Oh please.

Do your self a favor and look at draft history and please show everyone how GREAT every other team in the league is at drafting.

There's a reason less then 1% make it to the NHL and even less become stars.

Because IT'S DIFFICULT.
Look at this team's drafting history especially in the first round. Look at before the lockout and see how many of the guys drafted played in the league, let alone for the Rangers. Look at their lack of success in the first round.

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04-27-2011, 10:54 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Yeah, let's research how many playoff series the Rangers have won under Sather, compared to how many other teams have won during his tenure. That's really what it comes down to.
can't make argument A, so spin it with argument B. now i understand.

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04-27-2011, 10:56 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
First of all, let me just say that I really appreciate a post like this. No need to respond to someone you disagree with by calling the poster "assinine", "clueless", "retarded" etc etc. So thank you for not acting like a 12yo, with all due respect to those of you who actaully ARE 12yo.
Hahaha, no prob, we all have our moments around here and the offseason gets long and contentious. No need to start now.

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Anyway, I really like Ani and Step and I don't want to be negative, but I don't see them becoming top-line centers. Just more hard-working good players, which make up the bulk of our forwrd lines..
I honestly believe in a few years they will make an excellent 2nd/3rd line centerman. Steps might even develop into a #1 once he gets a few more years under his belt. You're not being negative, we just see them differently. Though Ani might have a short career unless he starts to keep his head up. D-Unit hit the rookie wall this year, and hopefully he avoids the Del Zotto path next year, but imo the kid has the hockey sense to develop into more than just a grindy roleplayer. IF he puts it together.

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Kreider might be a speed demon, but is he going to score? Is he going to have the kind of impact we need.
I cant really speak on that, my opinion is half based on the handful of times I've seen him play and pure blind hope. What can I say, I'm an optimist.

IF our centers develop properly, it could certainly take a lot of pressure off of him and let him settle into a speedy playmaking wing role nicely.

I really like our prospect pool. Not enough to go ZOMG WEVE GOT TEH STUDS, but Grachev, Del Zotto, Thomas, Kreider, Borque, Hagelin, and McIlrath could all fill in the roles no this team nicely. As long as the vets we sign actually perform to their contract level, that's a whole lot of depth even if these guys only develop into hardworking grindy types.

I will say one thing. After watching the Chicago-Vancouver game last night, this NYR team is painfully slow.

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04-27-2011, 10:57 AM
  #49
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All I'm saying is that Sather has had plenty of time to turn the Rangers into a legit contender and he has failed.

And from where I sit, I don't see the Rangers getting past the 2nd round in the near future, meaning within 3 years.

What does it take to recognize Sather as a fail? Will 3 more years do it or you?

I was NOT on the Fire Sather crew last season. I have tried to be patient. It's over for me. He failed. I'm just wating for him to leave now. Let him prove me wrong.

If we go 3 more years like this then what?

Oh yes, Team Speed is sorely lacking, which is why we struggle against the Habs and others like them.


Last edited by Blueshirt Special: 04-27-2011 at 11:01 AM. Reason: speed
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04-27-2011, 10:57 AM
  #50
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Yeah, let's research how many playoff series the Rangers have won under Sather, compared to how many other teams have won during his tenure.
First off, this discussion is about the DRAFT, not how many teams have won the Cup.

Which means, you can't figure out anything substantial to support your consistent negativity.

But I'll humor you, how many teams HAVE won.

Red Wings x2
Devils x2
Avalanche
Lightning
Hurricanes
Ducks
Penguins
Black Hawks

8 teams in the last 11 years have won the Cup.

19 haven't.

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