HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Youth Has Been Served

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-27-2011, 10:57 AM
  #51
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
can't make argument A, so spin it with argument B. now i understand.
Good drafting leads to winning playoff series. Pretty simple, really. They are totally related and part of the same argument.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 10:59 AM
  #52
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
First off, this discussion is about the DRAFT, not how many teams have won the Cup.

Which means, you can't figure out anything substantial to support your consistent negativity.

But I'll humor you, how many teams HAVE won.

Red Wings x2
Devils x2
Avalanche
Lightning
Hurricanes
Ducks
Penguins
Black Hawks

8 teams in the last 11 years have won the Cup.

19 haven't.
I'll argue that the Hawks and Penguins won because of how they drafted.

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 10:59 AM
  #53
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Look at this team's drafting history — especially in the first round. Look at before the lockout and see how many of the guys drafted played in the league, let alone for the Rangers. Look at their lack of success in the first round.
I don't give a **** about the PRE lockout era. You know why? We aren't there.

Let's look at the draft history since 2004.

Let's look at the current and future roster.

Your argument is nothing but whining and complaining about spilled milk.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:00 AM
  #54
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
I'll argue that the Hawks and Penguins won because of how they drafted.
And I'll argue that they both needed several years in the gutter to acquire the big pieces that it took to win.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:02 AM
  #55
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
All I'm saying is that Sather has had plenty of time to turn the Rangers into a legit contender and he has failed.

And from where I sit, I don't see the Rangers getting past the 2nd round in the near future, meaning within 3 years.

What does it take to recognize Sather as a fail? Will 3 more years do it or you?

I was NOT on the Fire Sather crew last season. I have tried to be patient. It's over for me. He failed. I'm just wating for him to leave now. Let him prove me wrong.

If we go 3 more years like this then what?

Oh yes, Team Speed is sorely lacking, which is why we struggle against the Habs and others like them.
They're not going to make it passed the second round within the next three years because YOU don't "see it"? That doesn't make it so.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:02 AM
  #56
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
First off, this discussion is about the DRAFT, not how many teams have won the Cup.

Which means, you can't figure out anything substantial to support your consistent negativity.

But I'll humor you, how many teams HAVE won.

Red Wings x2
Devils x2
Avalanche
Lightning
Hurricanes
Ducks
Penguins
Black Hawks

8 teams in the last 11 years have won the Cup.

19 haven't.
I asked to count how many playoff series each team has won, not how many cups. Much better barometer of interim progress. Don't take Argument A and spin it to Argument B.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:02 AM
  #57
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Look at this team's drafting history — especially in the first round. Look at before the lockout and see how many of the guys drafted played in the league, let alone for the Rangers. Look at their lack of success in the first round.
New Jersey Devils drafting history since 2000

2000 1 22 David Hale United States D Sioux City Musketeers (USHL) 263 3 17 20 211
2000 2 39 Teemu Laine Finland RW Jokerit (SM-liiga)
2000 2 56 Alexander Suglobov Russia RW Yaroslavl Torpedo (RSL) 18 1 0 1 4
2000 2 57 Matt DeMarchi United States D University of Minnesota (WCHA)
2000 2 62 Paul Martin United States D Elk River High School (Minn.) 378 24 128 152 112
2000 3 67 Max Birbraer Kazakhstan LW Newmarket Hurricanes (OJHL)
2000 3 76 Michael Rupp United States LW Erie Otters (OHL) 335 27 26 53 412
2000 4 125 Phil Cole Canada D Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL)
2000 5 135 Mike Danton Canada C Barrie Colts (OHL) 87 9 5 14 182
2000 5 164 Matus Kostur Slovakia G Banska Bystrica (Slovak Extraliga)
2000 6 194 Deryk Engelland Canada D Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
2000 7 198 Ken Magowan Canada LW Vernon Vipers (BCHL)
2000 8 257 Warren McCutcheon Canada C Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL)
2001 1 28 Adrian Foster Canada C Saskatoon Blades (WHL)
2001 2 44 Igor Pohanka Slovakia C Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
2001 2 48 Tuomas Pihlman Finland LW JYP (SM-liiga) 15 1 1 2 12
2001 2 60 Victor Uchevatov Russia D Yaroslavl-2 (RUS-3)
2001 3 67 Robin Leblanc Canada RW Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL)
2001 3 72 Brandon Nolan Canada C Oshawa Generals (OHL) 6 0 1 1 0
2001 4 128 Andrei Posnov Russia LW PHC Krylya Sovetov (RSL)
2001 5 163 Andreas Salomonsson Sweden LW Djurgardens IF (Elitserien) 71 5 9 14 36
2001 6 194 James Massen United States RW Sioux Falls Stampede (USHL)
2001 8 229 Aaron Voros Canada RW Victoria Salsa (BCHL) 109 15 15 30 263
2001 8 257 Evgeny Gamalei Russia RW Voskresensk Khimik (RSL)
2002 2 51 Anton Kadeykin Russia D Elektrostal (RSL)
2002 2 53 Barry Tallackson United States RW University of Minnesota (WCHA) 20 1 1 2 2
2002 3 64 Jason Ryznar United States LW University of Michigan (WCHA) 8 0 0 0 2
2002 3 84 Marek Chvatal Czech Republic D HC Ocelari Trinec (Czech Extraliga)
2002 3 85 Ahren Nittel Canada LW Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
2002 4 117 Cam Janssen United States RW Windsor Spitfires (OHL) 163 2 4 6 354
2002 5 154 Krisjanis Redlihs Latvia D HK Liepajas Metalurgs (Latvian Hockey League)
2002 6 187 Eric Johansson Canada C Tri-City Americans (WHL)
2002 7 218 Ilkka Pikkarainen Finland RW HIFK (SM-liiga)
2002 8 250 Dan Glover Canada D Camrose Kodiaks (AJHL)
2002 9 281 Bill Kinkel United States LW Kitchener Rangers (OHL)
2003 1 17 Zach Parise United States C University of North Dakota (WCHA) 326 122 131 253 107
2003 2 42 Petr Vrana Czech Republic C Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) 16 1 0 1 2
2003 3 93 Ivan Khomutov Russia C Elektrostal (RUS-1)
2003 5 167 Zach Tarkir United States D Chilliwack Chiefs (BCHL)
2003 6 197 Jason Smith Canada G Lennoxville Cougars (Quebec AAA)
2003 8 261 Joey Tenute Canada C Sarnia Sting (OHL) 1 0 0 0 0
2003 9 292 Arseny Bondarev Russia LW Yaroslavl Jrs. (RSL)
2004 1 20 Travis Zajac Canada C Salmon Arm Silverbacks (BCHL) 244 51 87 138 76
2004 5 155 Alexander Mikhailishin Russia D Spartak Jr. (RSL)
2004 6 185 Josh Disher Canada G Erie Otters (OHL)
2004 7 216 Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond Canada RW Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL) 8 0 1 1 22
2004 7 217 Tyler Eckford Canada D Surrey Eagles (BCHL)
2004 8 250 Nathan Perkovich United States RW Cedar Rapids RoughRiders (USHL)
2004 9 282 Valeri Klimov Russia D Spartak Jr. (RSL)
2005 1 23 Niclas Bergfors Sweden RW Sodertalje SK (Elitserien) 9 1 0 1 0
2005 2 38 Jeff Frazee United States G U.S. National Under 18 Team (NAHL)
2005 3 84 Mark Fraser Canada D Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 7 0 0 0 7
2005 4 99 Patrick Davis United States LW Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 1 0 0 0 0
2005 5 155 Mark Fayne United States D Noble and Greenough School (Mass.)
2005 6 170 Sean Zimmerman United States D Spokane Chiefs (WHL)
2005 7 218 Alexander Sundstrom Sweden C IF Bjorkloven (Allsvenskan)
2006 1 30 Matt Corrente Canada D Saginaw Spirit (OHL)
2006 2 58 Alexander Vasyunov Russia LW Yaroslavl Jrs. (RSL)
2006 3 67 Kirill Tulupov Russia D Neftyanik Almetyevsk (RUS-1)
2006 3 77 Vladimir Zharkov Russia RW HC CSKA Moscow (RSL)
2006 4 107 T.J. Miller United States D Penticton Vees (BCHL)
2006 5 148 Olivier Magnan Canada D Rouyn-Noranda Huskies (QMJHL)
2006 6 178 Tony Romano United States C NY Bobcats (AJHL)
2006 7 208 Kyell Henegan Canada RW Shawinigan Cataractes (QMJHL)
2007 2 57 Mike Hoeffel United States LW US National Under 18 Team (NAHL)
2007 3 79 Nick Palmieri United States RW Erie Otters (OHL)
2007 3 87 Corbin McPherson United States D Cowichan Valley Capitals (BCHL)
2007 4 117 Matthew Halischuk Canada RW Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 1 0 1 1 0
2007 6 177 Vili Sopanen Finland RW Pelicans (SM-liiga)
2007 7 207 Ryan Molle Canada D Swift Current Broncos (WHL)
2008 1 24 Mattias Tedenby Sweden LW HV71 (Elitserien)
2008 2 52 Brandon Burlon Canada D St. Michael's Buzzers (OJHL)
2008 2 54 Patrice Cormier Canada C Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL)
2008 3 82 Adam Henrique Canada C Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
2008 4 112 Matt Delahey Canada D Regina Pats (WHL)
2008 5 142 Kory Nagy Canada C Oshawa Generals (OHL)
2008 6 172 David Wohlberg United States C US National Under 18 Team (NAHL)
2008 7 202 Harry Young Canada D Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
2008 7 205 Jean-Sebastien Berube Canada LW Rouyn-Noranda Huskies (QMJHL)
2009 1 20 Jacob Josefson Sweden C Djurgardens IF (Elitserien)
2009 2 54 Eric Gelinas Canada D Lewiston MAINEiacs (QMJHL)
2009 3 73 Alexander Urbom Sweden D Djurgardens IF (Elitserien)
2009 4 114 Seth Helgeson United States D Sioux City Musketeers (USHL)
2009 5 144 Derek Rodwell Canada LW Okotoks Oilers (AJHL)
2009 6 174 Ashton Bernard Canada LW Shawinigan Cataractes (QMJHL)
2009 7 204 Curtis Gedig Canada D Cowichan Valley Capitals (BCHL)


bold players are only ones worth noting. Martin, Zajac, Parise and maybe Tedenby are the only players of real note there.


Rangers since 2000


2000 2 64 Filip Novak Czech Republic D 17
2000 3 95 Dominic Moore Canada C 449 23
2000 4 112 Premysl Duben Czech Republic D
2000 5 140 Nathan Martz Canada C
2000 5 143 Brandon Snee United States G
2000 6 175 Sven Helfenstein Czech Republic C/RW
2000 7 205 Henrik Lundqvist Sweden G 404
2000 8 238 Dan Eberly United States D
2000 9 269 Martin Richter Czech Republic D
2001 1 10 Dan Blackburn Canada G 63
2001 2 40 Fedor Tyutin Russia D 490 28
2001 3 79 Garth Murray Canada C 116 6
2001 4 113 Bryce Lampman United States D 10
2001 5 139 Shawn Collymore Canada RW
2001 6 176 Marek Zidlicky Czech Republic D 507 14
2001 7 206 Petr Preucil Czech Republic LW
2001 7 226 Pontus Petterstrom Sweden LW
2001 8 230 Leonid Zvachkin Russia D
2001 8 238 Ryan Hollweg United States C 228 14
2001 9 269 Juris Stals Latvia C
2002 2 33 Lee Falardeau United States C
2002 3 81 Marcus Jonasen Sweden LW
2002 4 127 Nate Guenin United States D 17
2002 5 143 Mike Walsh United States LW
2002 6 177 Jake Taylor United States D
2002 6 194 Kim Hirschovits Finland C
2002 7 226 Joey Crabb United States RW 76
2002 8 240 Petr Prucha Czech Republic LW 346 24
2002 9 270 Rob Flynn United States RW
2003 1 12 Hugh Jessiman United States RW 2
2003 2 50 Ivan Baranka Slovakia D 1
2003 3 75 Ken Roche United States C
2003 4 122 Corey Potter United States D 9
2003 5 149 Nigel Dawes Canada LW 212 11
2003 6 176 Ivan Dornic Slovakia C
2003 6 179 Philippe Furrer Switzerland D
2003 6 180 Chris Holt Canada G 2
2003 7 209 Dylan Reese United States D 44
2003 8 243 Jan Marek Czech Republic F
2004 1 6 Al Montoya United States G 24
2004 1 19 Lauri Korpikoski Finland LW 216 15
2004 2 36 Darin Olver Canada C
2004 2 48 Dane Byers Canada LW 6
2004 2 51 Bruce Graham Canada C
2004 2 60 Brandon Dubinsky United States C 315 22
2004 3 73 Zdenek Bahensky Czech Republic RW
2004 3 80 Billy Ryan United States C
2004 4 127 Ryan Callahan United States RW 284 27
2004 5 135 Roman Psurny Czech Republic LW
2004 6 169 Jordan Foote Canada LW
2004 8 247 Jonathan Paiement Canada D
2004 9 266 Jakub Petruzalek Czech Republic RW 2
2005 1 12 Marc Staal Canada D 320 22
2005 2 40 Michael Sauer United States D 78 5
2005 2 56 Marc-Andre Cliche Canada RW 1
2005 3 66 Brodie Dupont Canada C 1
2005 3 77 Dalyn Flatt Canada D
2005 4 107 Tom Pyatt Canada C 100 18
2005 5 147 Trevor Koverko Canada D
2005 6 178 Greg Beller Canada F
2005 7 211 Ryan Russell Canada C
2006 1 21 Bob Sanguinetti United States D 5
2006 2 54 Artem Anisimov Russia C 164 6
2006 3 84 Ryan Hillier Canada LW
2006 4 104 David Kveton Czech Republic RW
2006 5 137 Tomas Zaborsky Slovakia LW
2006 6 174 Eric Hunter Canada C
2006 7 204 Lukas Zeliska Slovakia C
2007 1 17 Alexei Cherepanov Russia RW
2007 2 48 Antoine Lafleur Canada G
2007 5 138 Max Campbell Canada C
2007 6 168 Carl Hagelin Sweden LW
2007 7 193 David Skokan Slovakia C
2007 7 198 Danny Hobbs Canada F
2008 1 20 Michael Del Zotto Canada D 127
2008 2 51 Derek Stepan United States C 81 5
2008 3 75 Evgeny Grachev Russia C 8
2008 3 90 Tomas Kundratek Czech Republic D
2008 4 111 Dale Weise Canada RW 10
2008 5 141 Chris Doyle Canada C
2008 6 171 Mitch Gaulton Canada D
2009 1 19 Chris Kreider United States C
2009 2 47 Ethan Werek Canada C
2009 3 80 Ryan Bourque United States C
2009 5 127 Roman Horak Czech Republic C
2009 5 140 Scott Stajcer Canada G
2009 6 170 Daniel Maggio Canada D
2009 7 200 Mikhail Pashnin Russia D
2010 1 10 Dylan McIlrath Canada D
2010 2 40 Christian Thomas Canada RW
2010 4 100 Andrew Yogan United States C/LW
2010 5 130 Jason Wilson Canada LW
2010 6 157 Jesper Fasth Sweden RW
2010 7 190 Randy McNaught Canada RW


not gonna highlight players that havent made the NHL (with the exception of Cherepanov), but id say the teams have done about the same...for all of the Lou is God crap he isn't a great drafter either. Lundqvist is either as valuable or moreso than Parise, and the Rangers probably win the rest of the head to head as well.

go through ANY NHL team since 2000, it all looks the same unless youre talking about perennial losers that turned it around through consecutive top 5 draft picks

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:02 AM
  #58
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 15,486
vCash: 500
The Rangers have been drafting (Staal, Sauer)/signing (Girardi)/trading (McD) great on the defensive side of things. Nobody can deny that. Of course there have been two offensive defensemen drafted and one was a bust and the other had some major difficulties in Season #2.

It's our forwards where we have issues. Stepan has some great potential, but other than him (who was a second rounder), who was the last first round pick who was a forward on the Rangers who has made an impact? Probably Sundstrom in 1993, lol.

The Rangers also haven't been drafting many forwards in the first round. Look at our drafts (starting with most current).

D (TBD)
F (TBD)
D (TBD)
F (RIP)
D (bust)
D (stud)
G (bust-Islanders)
F (bust)
None
G (injuries)
None
---------------Sather era above/Smith era below
F (bust)
F (3rd liner)
F (injuries)

Won't even bother going back before 1997.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:03 AM
  #59
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
And I'll argue that they both needed several years in the gutter to acquire the big pieces that it took to win.
Ok, and? All I'm saying is the draft can influence a teams ability to win. Not always. But look at a team like Detroit who got late round gems and became perennial contenders?

Neither is independent of the other, and it's not always the cellar dwellers that always get the best pieces.

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:06 AM
  #60
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
All I'm saying is that Sather has had plenty of time to turn the Rangers into a legit contender and he has failed.

And from where I sit, I don't see the Rangers getting past the 2nd round in the near future, meaning within 3 years.

What does it take to recognize Sather as a fail? Will 3 more years do it or you?

I was NOT on the Fire Sather crew last season. I have tried to be patient. It's over for me. He failed. I'm just wating for him to leave now. Let him prove me wrong.

If we go 3 more years like this then what?

Oh yes, Team Speed is sorely lacking, which is why we struggle against the Habs and others like them.
For the record I'm in no way defending Sather, I just think we've been drafting pretty well as of late.

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:06 AM
  #61
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
Ok, and? All I'm saying is the draft can influence a teams ability to win. Not always. But look at a team like Detroit who got late round gems and became perennial contenders?

Neither is independent of the other, and it's not always the cellar dwellers that always get the best pieces.
the BS argument being spouted here is that teams can draft elite players in the first round outside of the top 10 with regularity, and that the rangers have been abysmal drafters...at least thats what ive read...and both are WAY wrong imho.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:09 AM
  #62
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
I asked to count how many playoff series each team has won, not how many cups. Much better barometer of interim progress.
It still doesn't prove anything.

It has nothing to do with what was drafted since 2004.

Those kids are only just starting to make an impact now.

Michael Sauer, who was drafted in 2004, acquired in the Brian Leetch trade, JUST had his rookie season.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:10 AM
  #63
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
the BS argument being spouted here is that teams can draft elite players in the first round outside of the top 10 with regularity, and that the rangers have been abysmal drafters...at least thats what ive read...and both are WAY wrong imho.
You may not have to do it regularly, but you do have to be good enough to find it more often than other teams do.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:11 AM
  #64
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
the BS argument being spouted here is that teams can draft elite players in the first round outside of the top 10 with regularity, and that the rangers have been abysmal drafters...at least thats what ive read...and both are WAY wrong imho.
The funny thing is everyone acts like even if you pick in the top 10 you get elite talent. Sometimes guys bust no matter where they get picked.

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:14 AM
  #65
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
It still doesn't prove anything.

It has nothing to do with what was drafted since 2004.

Those kids are only just starting to make an impact now.

Michael Sauer, who was drafted in 2004, acquired in the Brian Leetch trade, JUST had his rookie season.
OK, so now you're changing your argument from telling us how great the Rangers have been drafting, with the list you provided a little while abot, to telling us we really can't judge yet because people are just starting an impact. Got it.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:14 AM
  #66
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
New Jersey Devils drafting history since 2000

2000 1 22 David Hale United States D Sioux City Musketeers (USHL) 263 3 17 20 211
2000 2 39 Teemu Laine Finland RW Jokerit (SM-liiga)
2000 2 56 Alexander Suglobov Russia RW Yaroslavl Torpedo (RSL) 18 1 0 1 4
2000 2 57 Matt DeMarchi United States D University of Minnesota (WCHA)
2000 2 62 Paul Martin United States D Elk River High School (Minn.) 378 24 128 152 112
2000 3 67 Max Birbraer Kazakhstan LW Newmarket Hurricanes (OJHL)
2000 3 76 Michael Rupp United States LW Erie Otters (OHL) 335 27 26 53 412
2000 4 125 Phil Cole Canada D Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL)
2000 5 135 Mike Danton Canada C Barrie Colts (OHL) 87 9 5 14 182
2000 5 164 Matus Kostur Slovakia G Banska Bystrica (Slovak Extraliga)
2000 6 194 Deryk Engelland Canada D Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
2000 7 198 Ken Magowan Canada LW Vernon Vipers (BCHL)
2000 8 257 Warren McCutcheon Canada C Lethbridge Hurricanes (WHL)
2001 1 28 Adrian Foster Canada C Saskatoon Blades (WHL)
2001 2 44 Igor Pohanka Slovakia C Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
2001 2 48 Tuomas Pihlman Finland LW JYP (SM-liiga) 15 1 1 2 12
2001 2 60 Victor Uchevatov Russia D Yaroslavl-2 (RUS-3)
2001 3 67 Robin Leblanc Canada RW Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL)
2001 3 72 Brandon Nolan Canada C Oshawa Generals (OHL) 6 0 1 1 0
2001 4 128 Andrei Posnov Russia LW PHC Krylya Sovetov (RSL)
2001 5 163 Andreas Salomonsson Sweden LW Djurgardens IF (Elitserien) 71 5 9 14 36
2001 6 194 James Massen United States RW Sioux Falls Stampede (USHL)
2001 8 229 Aaron Voros Canada RW Victoria Salsa (BCHL) 109 15 15 30 263
2001 8 257 Evgeny Gamalei Russia RW Voskresensk Khimik (RSL)
2002 2 51 Anton Kadeykin Russia D Elektrostal (RSL)
2002 2 53 Barry Tallackson United States RW University of Minnesota (WCHA) 20 1 1 2 2
2002 3 64 Jason Ryznar United States LW University of Michigan (WCHA) 8 0 0 0 2
2002 3 84 Marek Chvatal Czech Republic D HC Ocelari Trinec (Czech Extraliga)
2002 3 85 Ahren Nittel Canada LW Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
2002 4 117 Cam Janssen United States RW Windsor Spitfires (OHL) 163 2 4 6 354
2002 5 154 Krisjanis Redlihs Latvia D HK Liepajas Metalurgs (Latvian Hockey League)
2002 6 187 Eric Johansson Canada C Tri-City Americans (WHL)
2002 7 218 Ilkka Pikkarainen Finland RW HIFK (SM-liiga)
2002 8 250 Dan Glover Canada D Camrose Kodiaks (AJHL)
2002 9 281 Bill Kinkel United States LW Kitchener Rangers (OHL)
2003 1 17 Zach Parise United States C University of North Dakota (WCHA) 326 122 131 253 107
2003 2 42 Petr Vrana Czech Republic C Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL) 16 1 0 1 2
2003 3 93 Ivan Khomutov Russia C Elektrostal (RUS-1)
2003 5 167 Zach Tarkir United States D Chilliwack Chiefs (BCHL)
2003 6 197 Jason Smith Canada G Lennoxville Cougars (Quebec AAA)
2003 8 261 Joey Tenute Canada C Sarnia Sting (OHL) 1 0 0 0 0
2003 9 292 Arseny Bondarev Russia LW Yaroslavl Jrs. (RSL)
2004 1 20 Travis Zajac Canada C Salmon Arm Silverbacks (BCHL) 244 51 87 138 76
2004 5 155 Alexander Mikhailishin Russia D Spartak Jr. (RSL)
2004 6 185 Josh Disher Canada G Erie Otters (OHL)
2004 7 216 Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond Canada RW Baie-Comeau Drakkar (QMJHL) 8 0 1 1 22
2004 7 217 Tyler Eckford Canada D Surrey Eagles (BCHL)
2004 8 250 Nathan Perkovich United States RW Cedar Rapids RoughRiders (USHL)
2004 9 282 Valeri Klimov Russia D Spartak Jr. (RSL)
2005 1 23 Niclas Bergfors Sweden RW Sodertalje SK (Elitserien) 9 1 0 1 0
2005 2 38 Jeff Frazee United States G U.S. National Under 18 Team (NAHL)
2005 3 84 Mark Fraser Canada D Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 7 0 0 0 7
2005 4 99 Patrick Davis United States LW Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 1 0 0 0 0
2005 5 155 Mark Fayne United States D Noble and Greenough School (Mass.)
2005 6 170 Sean Zimmerman United States D Spokane Chiefs (WHL)
2005 7 218 Alexander Sundstrom Sweden C IF Bjorkloven (Allsvenskan)
2006 1 30 Matt Corrente Canada D Saginaw Spirit (OHL)
2006 2 58 Alexander Vasyunov Russia LW Yaroslavl Jrs. (RSL)
2006 3 67 Kirill Tulupov Russia D Neftyanik Almetyevsk (RUS-1)
2006 3 77 Vladimir Zharkov Russia RW HC CSKA Moscow (RSL)
2006 4 107 T.J. Miller United States D Penticton Vees (BCHL)
2006 5 148 Olivier Magnan Canada D Rouyn-Noranda Huskies (QMJHL)
2006 6 178 Tony Romano United States C NY Bobcats (AJHL)
2006 7 208 Kyell Henegan Canada RW Shawinigan Cataractes (QMJHL)
2007 2 57 Mike Hoeffel United States LW US National Under 18 Team (NAHL)
2007 3 79 Nick Palmieri United States RW Erie Otters (OHL)
2007 3 87 Corbin McPherson United States D Cowichan Valley Capitals (BCHL)
2007 4 117 Matthew Halischuk Canada RW Kitchener Rangers (OHL) 1 0 1 1 0
2007 6 177 Vili Sopanen Finland RW Pelicans (SM-liiga)
2007 7 207 Ryan Molle Canada D Swift Current Broncos (WHL)
2008 1 24 Mattias Tedenby Sweden LW HV71 (Elitserien)
2008 2 52 Brandon Burlon Canada D St. Michael's Buzzers (OJHL)
2008 2 54 Patrice Cormier Canada C Rimouski Oceanic (QMJHL)
2008 3 82 Adam Henrique Canada C Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
2008 4 112 Matt Delahey Canada D Regina Pats (WHL)
2008 5 142 Kory Nagy Canada C Oshawa Generals (OHL)
2008 6 172 David Wohlberg United States C US National Under 18 Team (NAHL)
2008 7 202 Harry Young Canada D Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
2008 7 205 Jean-Sebastien Berube Canada LW Rouyn-Noranda Huskies (QMJHL)
2009 1 20 Jacob Josefson Sweden C Djurgardens IF (Elitserien)
2009 2 54 Eric Gelinas Canada D Lewiston MAINEiacs (QMJHL)
2009 3 73 Alexander Urbom Sweden D Djurgardens IF (Elitserien)
2009 4 114 Seth Helgeson United States D Sioux City Musketeers (USHL)
2009 5 144 Derek Rodwell Canada LW Okotoks Oilers (AJHL)
2009 6 174 Ashton Bernard Canada LW Shawinigan Cataractes (QMJHL)
2009 7 204 Curtis Gedig Canada D Cowichan Valley Capitals (BCHL)


bold players are only ones worth noting. Martin, Zajac, Parise and maybe Tedenby are the only players of real note there.


Rangers since 2000


2000 2 64 Filip Novak Czech Republic D 17
2000 3 95 Dominic Moore Canada C 449 23
2000 4 112 Premysl Duben Czech Republic D
2000 5 140 Nathan Martz Canada C
2000 5 143 Brandon Snee United States G
2000 6 175 Sven Helfenstein Czech Republic C/RW
2000 7 205 Henrik Lundqvist Sweden G 404
2000 8 238 Dan Eberly United States D
2000 9 269 Martin Richter Czech Republic D
2001 1 10 Dan Blackburn Canada G 63
2001 2 40 Fedor Tyutin Russia D 490 28
2001 3 79 Garth Murray Canada C 116 6
2001 4 113 Bryce Lampman United States D 10
2001 5 139 Shawn Collymore Canada RW
2001 6 176 Marek Zidlicky Czech Republic D 507 14
2001 7 206 Petr Preucil Czech Republic LW
2001 7 226 Pontus Petterstrom Sweden LW
2001 8 230 Leonid Zvachkin Russia D
2001 8 238 Ryan Hollweg United States C 228 14
2001 9 269 Juris Stals Latvia C
2002 2 33 Lee Falardeau United States C
2002 3 81 Marcus Jonasen Sweden LW
2002 4 127 Nate Guenin United States D 17
2002 5 143 Mike Walsh United States LW
2002 6 177 Jake Taylor United States D
2002 6 194 Kim Hirschovits Finland C
2002 7 226 Joey Crabb United States RW 76
2002 8 240 Petr Prucha Czech Republic LW 346 24
2002 9 270 Rob Flynn United States RW
2003 1 12 Hugh Jessiman United States RW 2
2003 2 50 Ivan Baranka Slovakia D 1
2003 3 75 Ken Roche United States C
2003 4 122 Corey Potter United States D 9
2003 5 149 Nigel Dawes Canada LW 212 11
2003 6 176 Ivan Dornic Slovakia C
2003 6 179 Philippe Furrer Switzerland D
2003 6 180 Chris Holt Canada G 2
2003 7 209 Dylan Reese United States D 44
2003 8 243 Jan Marek Czech Republic F
2004 1 6 Al Montoya United States G 24
2004 1 19 Lauri Korpikoski Finland LW 216 15
2004 2 36 Darin Olver Canada C
2004 2 48 Dane Byers Canada LW 6
2004 2 51 Bruce Graham Canada C
2004 2 60 Brandon Dubinsky United States C 315 22
2004 3 73 Zdenek Bahensky Czech Republic RW
2004 3 80 Billy Ryan United States C
2004 4 127 Ryan Callahan United States RW 284 27
2004 5 135 Roman Psurny Czech Republic LW
2004 6 169 Jordan Foote Canada LW
2004 8 247 Jonathan Paiement Canada D
2004 9 266 Jakub Petruzalek Czech Republic RW 2
2005 1 12 Marc Staal Canada D 320 22
2005 2 40 Michael Sauer United States D 78 5
2005 2 56 Marc-Andre Cliche Canada RW 1
2005 3 66 Brodie Dupont Canada C 1
2005 3 77 Dalyn Flatt Canada D
2005 4 107 Tom Pyatt Canada C 100 18
2005 5 147 Trevor Koverko Canada D
2005 6 178 Greg Beller Canada F
2005 7 211 Ryan Russell Canada C
2006 1 21 Bob Sanguinetti United States D 5
2006 2 54 Artem Anisimov Russia C 164 6
2006 3 84 Ryan Hillier Canada LW
2006 4 104 David Kveton Czech Republic RW
2006 5 137 Tomas Zaborsky Slovakia LW
2006 6 174 Eric Hunter Canada C
2006 7 204 Lukas Zeliska Slovakia C
2007 1 17 Alexei Cherepanov Russia RW
2007 2 48 Antoine Lafleur Canada G
2007 5 138 Max Campbell Canada C
2007 6 168 Carl Hagelin Sweden LW
2007 7 193 David Skokan Slovakia C
2007 7 198 Danny Hobbs Canada F
2008 1 20 Michael Del Zotto Canada D 127
2008 2 51 Derek Stepan United States C 81 5
2008 3 75 Evgeny Grachev Russia C 8
2008 3 90 Tomas Kundratek Czech Republic D
2008 4 111 Dale Weise Canada RW 10
2008 5 141 Chris Doyle Canada C
2008 6 171 Mitch Gaulton Canada D
2009 1 19 Chris Kreider United States C
2009 2 47 Ethan Werek Canada C
2009 3 80 Ryan Bourque United States C
2009 5 127 Roman Horak Czech Republic C
2009 5 140 Scott Stajcer Canada G
2009 6 170 Daniel Maggio Canada D
2009 7 200 Mikhail Pashnin Russia D
2010 1 10 Dylan McIlrath Canada D
2010 2 40 Christian Thomas Canada RW
2010 4 100 Andrew Yogan United States C/LW
2010 5 130 Jason Wilson Canada LW
2010 6 157 Jesper Fasth Sweden RW
2010 7 190 Randy McNaught Canada RW


not gonna highlight players that havent made the NHL (with the exception of Cherepanov), but id say the teams have done about the same...for all of the Lou is God crap he isn't a great drafter either. Lundqvist is either as valuable or moreso than Parise, and the Rangers probably win the rest of the head to head as well.

go through ANY NHL team since 2000, it all looks the same unless youre talking about perennial losers that turned it around through consecutive top 5 draft picks
Great post.

Further illustrates what I have been saying.

People here will have you believe busts are exclusive to the New York Rangers. What they don't understand is EVERY team busts more then they succeed in the draft. By a HUGE margin.

Having a top 5 pick several years in a row would boost anyone's perceived success rate. If you don't look at what happened below those top 5 picks in the drafts.

Unless you are Columbus, who still fail with top 5 picks.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:15 AM
  #67
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
The funny thing is everyone acts like even if you pick in the top 10 you get elite talent. Sometimes guys bust no matter where they get picked.
No question. But the fact remains that some GM's are better at drafting than others.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:17 AM
  #68
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,610
vCash: 500
It's been 11 years since Lundqvist was drafted, and he was scouted by Neil Smith's guys. Almost every other team has managed to find a talented player beyond the 1st round, why can't Sather?

Kevin Bieksa, Dennis Seidenberg, Ryan Clowe, Brooks Laich, Joe Pavelski, Toby Enstrom, Dustin Byfuglien, Kris Versteeg, Mikhail Grabovski, Pekka Rinne, Mark Streit, Nathan Gerbe, Jamie Benn, Jason Demers, etc. These are among some talented players that have been drafted in round five or later since 2000. Some teams, such as the Sharks, have become extremely adept at finding talent in the later rounds, in part because they realize their team is too good to stockpile top 10 draft picks. Other teams that are considered "bad" at drafting, like Atlanta, have even managed to find talent in the later rounds.

Yes, it's "hard" to find good players when you don't have high draft picks. But it can be done. The fact that it's difficult to do is no excuse. Other teams have a found a way and so can the Rangers.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:18 AM
  #69
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
OK, so now you're changing your argument from telling us how great the Rangers have been drafting, with the list you provided a little while abot, to telling us we really can't judge yet because people are just starting an impact. Got it.
LOL what ever makes you feel better.

My argument has been uniform through out.

The POST lockout draft history for the New York Rangers has been very good. Plain and simple.

The current roster is starting to become a result because of those drafts.

It takes on average 5 years for a pick to impact an NHL roster. 2004+5=2009, 2005+5=2010, 2006+5=2011. Gee what a coincidence.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:18 AM
  #70
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
No question. But the fact remains that some GM's are better at drafting than others.
Is anyone even arguing that at this point? Clark has done a great job with our drafting. We can blame Maloney for a lot of the boneheaded picks, which he seems to be reacquiring out in Phoenix.

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:21 AM
  #71
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
It's been 11 years since Lundqvist was drafted, and he was scouted by Neil Smith's guys. Almost every other team has managed to find a talented player beyond the 1st round, why can't Sather?
Derek Stepan
Brandon Dubinsky
Ryan Callahan
Artem Anisimov
Michael sauer
Dan Girardi (undrafted)

Yea, why can't he.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:21 AM
  #72
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
1999 1* Patrik Štefan Center Czech Republic Long Beach Ice Dogs (IHL)
2000 2 Dany Heatley Left wing Canada University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
2001 1* Ilya Kovalchuk Left wing Russia Moscow Spartak (RSL)
2002 2 Kari Lehtonen Goaltender Finland Jokerit Helsinki (SM-liiga)
2002 30 Jim Slater Center United States Michigan State University (CCHA)
2003 8 Braydon Coburn Defense Canada Portland Winter Hawks (WHL)
2004 10 Boris Valábik Defense Slovakia Kitchener Rangers (OHL)
2005 16 Alex Bourret≠ Right wing Canada Lewiston Maineiacs (QMJHL)
2006 12 Bryan Little Center Canada Barrie Colts (OHL)
2007 No Pick
2008 3 Zach Bogosian Defense United States Peterborough Petes (OHL)
2008 29 Daultan Leveille≠ Center Canada St. Catharines Falcons (GHJHL)
2009 4 Evander Kane Center Canada Vancouver Giants (WHL)
2010 8 Alexander Burmistrov Center Russia Barrie Colts (OHL)

they haven't done too bad for themselves.

It all comes down to this. If the Thrashers still had Heatley and Kovalchuk, they'd be a HELL of a lot better than they are today. If those 2 had developed together, grown together, and the Thrashers had developed a winning tradition with those 2 franchise players, things would have been very different today. Unfortunately Heatley got into a car accident, killed his best friend, and needed to get away from Atlanta. then it was Kovalchuk and Hossa, and Hossa wasn't going to stay here, he had no loyalty to the city of Atlanta as a high draft pick and coming through the organization.


Thrashers haven't been great drafting, but they haven't been all that awful either
I'm not saying that they've been bad at drafting. I'm saying they've been unable to convert "good" drafting and high picks into success of any kind. Some NYR fans would lead you to believe that high draft picks are the only thing that are holding back the Rangers. They've said so in this thread.

It's like the pre-cap days when a certain GM in Edmonton said he'd be able to build a Cup contender with the NYR payroll. It's not that simple.

Melrose_Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:22 AM
  #73
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LamoTheKid View Post
Is anyone even arguing that at this point? Clark has done a great job with our drafting. We can blame Maloney for a lot of the boneheaded picks, which he seems to be reacquiring out in Phoenix.
Well, when people put out gigantic lists of failures by teams that have very good overall drafting histories, the connotation is that it's all a crapshoot...and it's not.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:22 AM
  #74
LamoTheKid
Registered User
 
LamoTheKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
It's been 11 years since Lundqvist was drafted, and he was scouted by Neil Smith's guys. Almost every other team has managed to find a talented player beyond the 1st round, why can't Sather?

Kevin Bieksa, Dennis Seidenberg, Ryan Clowe, Brooks Laich, Joe Pavelski, Toby Enstrom, Dustin Byfuglien, Kris Versteeg, Mikhail Grabovski, Pekka Rinne, Mark Streit, Nathan Gerbe, Jamie Benn, Jason Demers, etc. These are among some talented players that have been drafted in round five or later since 2000. Some teams, such as the Sharks, have become extremely adept at finding talent in the later rounds, in part because they realize their team is too good to stockpile top 10 draft picks. Other teams that are considered "bad" at drafting, like Atlanta, have even managed to find talent in the later rounds.

Yes, it's "hard" to find good players when you don't have high draft picks. But it can be done. The fact that it's difficult to do is no excuse. Other teams have a found a way and so can the Rangers
Dubi, Cally, Steps, Anisimov all say hello. It's not like we haven't been doing it. And those are guys picked outside of the first round. Now can you clarify "good"? Did you mean "elite"? That's a different story all together. (not attacking you, just asking for clarification)

LamoTheKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-27-2011, 11:23 AM
  #75
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I don't give a **** about the PRE lockout era. You know why? We aren't there.

Let's look at the draft history since 2004.

Let's look at the current and future roster.

Your argument is nothing but whining and complaining about spilled milk.
You should care. It still directly impacts what this team is now.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.