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Jeff Carter "sprained right knee" (April 26 update: could return in Rd. 2; post #87)

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Old
04-27-2011, 03:11 PM
  #176
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In all seriousness it seems any discussion about Carter that is not positive automatically falls into the Cartsiephan default position and is summarily discounted as hate. This is what is annoying..no middle ground no matter how cogent the argument is presented. Again..it has simply become the third rail of discussion on this board and the hate card is used to suppress any kind of debate. Kind of like when people blurt out the word conspiracy and all manner of critical thought has to cease...

This is not to say there isn't Carter trolling by people but now it's come to the point where the distinctions between valid criticism and outright trolling for attention has been blurred unreasonably. Luckily it's still open season on Leighton...and for valid reasons

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04-27-2011, 03:12 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
First off, I dislike arguing with anyone who has as awesome a name as FreshPrinceOfBriere, I smile everytime I see that. But I digress.

1. Briere
2. Richards
3. Giroux
4. Carter
5. Leino/Hartnell/JVR

Carter is not a career bust in the playoffs.

- 11 goals and 17 points in 12 games in the World Junior Championships. P.S. Top goal scorer on the best team EVER ASSEMBLED for this tournament.
- 23 points in 21 playoff games for Phantoms to lead them to the Calder Cup
- 0 points in 6 games in his rookie year (No big surprise)
- 2007-08, 6 goals 5 assists in 17 games.
- 2008-09 1 goal in 6 games.
- 2009-10, 5 goals 2 assists in 12 games


If I look at the above, I don't see anything to say he is a guy who cannot play in the playoffs.
Can we please stick to the NHL..you did the same with Leighton and his pee-wee exploits....

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04-27-2011, 03:20 PM
  #178
Totally Radivojevic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure I'm disappointed, doesn't mean I throw the baby out with the bathwater... the fact of the matter is that players' playoff production mirrors their regular season production as you play out enough games. Additionally, you don't know when that is going to happen. It could happen next week, it could happen next year... ya just don't know.

Jeff Carter was the Flyers best all-around forward this year. If the PP gets back on track the formula will change a bit, but the Flyers score more with him on the ice than any other forward on the team. They also are a stout defensive team with him on the ice... they need him. People also stress over his production and don't pay attention to what is happening. A couple years ago he was our best forward on the ice against Pittsburgh... MAF just made some absolutely stellar saves to keep him out of the net.

Mike Richards is easily the most important all-around forward on this roster, and after that you have a bunch of guys that are kind of in the same ballpark of the suspects you're going to talk about. Briere played great in this series, someone else can play great in the next one -- and, yes, Briere has had cold playoff series since the lockout. He did jack squat against Montreal a few years back, for example, after tearing Washington a new one.
Carter was nowhere near the best player on the ice that series. And Briere's playoff totals since the lockout:

18 games, 19 points
16 games, 15 points
17 games, 16 points
6 games, 4 points
23 games, 30 points
7 games, 7 points

That's a pretty consistent playoff performer. And aren't you always trying to compare Carter's playoff production at his current age to Briere's? Carter has played 45 games. Briere had played 6.

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04-27-2011, 03:20 PM
  #179
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Even if you only go by his NHL playoff resume, Carter hasn't been terrible by any stretch. Not great perhaps, but certainly not terrible as some people seem to think. 07-08 he was on what was essentially our third line, 08-09 he was as has already been pointed out a lot better than the numbers would suggest and then last year was those two broken feet.

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04-27-2011, 03:26 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Can we please stick to the NHL..you did the same with Leighton and his pee-wee exploits....
It is relevant. He was awesome with his peers at the biggest tournament in the world at age 17. Many believe the WJC is why players come into the NHL ready for primetime so early now, because the international experience prepares you for NHL playoff atmosphere. The AHL year was the lockout year against good competition and he did it as a kid, important. The rest of the years are as a pro.

Regardless, his professional years do not spell playoff bust.

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Old
04-27-2011, 03:27 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Carter was nowhere near the best player on the ice that series.
He played great in that series, was just snakebit and banged up. MAF had multiple sensational saves on him. Meanwhile Richards was getting absolutely gutted by Crosby.

Quote:
And Briere's playoff totals since the lockout:

18 games, 19 points
16 games, 15 points
17 games, 16 points
6 games, 4 points
23 games, 30 points
7 games, 7 points

That's a pretty consistent playoff performer. And aren't you always trying to compare Carter's playoff production at his current age to Briere's? Carter has played 45 games. Briere had played 6.
Briere has 11 points in the 7 games series against Washington, 3 against Montreal, and 2 against the Pens.

Briere's been great in the playoffs, but it isn't outside the realm of imagination that he'll have a down series. Everyone does. Richards just had a weak series.

And, yes, Briere didn't get to play in the playoffs when he was Carter's age... he may have been a bum at that point in his career, you don't know. Gagne was certainly a choker when he was Carter's age.

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Old
04-27-2011, 03:28 PM
  #182
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Carchidi just said on twitter that he thinks carter will be back game 2 or 3 next round.

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04-27-2011, 03:31 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Carter was nowhere near the best player on the ice that series. And Briere's playoff totals since the lockout:

18 games, 19 points
16 games, 15 points
17 games, 16 points
6 games, 4 points
23 games, 30 points
7 games, 7 points

That's a pretty consistent playoff performer. And aren't you always trying to compare Carter's playoff production at his current age to Briere's? Carter has played 45 games. Briere had played 6.
Briere had more NHL experience than Carter in general, before he was really on teams that had playoff runs. That's going to help with playoff performance.

Briere was playing for 7 years (some of it split between NHL/AHL) before he put it together and became a playoff beast. Carter has only been in the NHL for 6 years, and he isn't done developing his game/maturing. Experience matters.

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04-27-2011, 03:41 PM
  #184
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By the way, in regard to Fleury's save on Carter in the playoffs a couple years ago, Carter had a WIDE open goal and shot it at least half way back across the net toward Fleury's pad and didn't lift it an inch. He has no chance at getting that if Carter keeps it anywhere along the left half. Piss poor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUBCQ...eature=related

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04-27-2011, 03:51 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
By the way, in regard to Fleury's save on Carter in the playoffs a couple years ago, Carter had a WIDE open goal and shot it at least half way back across the net toward Fleury's pad and didn't lift it an inch. He has no chance at getting that if Carter keeps it anywhere along the left half. Piss poor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUBCQ...eature=related
If Fleury doesn't move, that puck goes in. Fleury moved, great save. It's not like he chest sniped him.

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04-27-2011, 03:51 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
By the way, in regard to Fleury's save on Carter in the playoffs a couple years ago, Carter had a WIDE open goal and shot it at least half way back across the net toward Fleury's pad and didn't lift it an inch. He has no chance at getting that if Carter keeps it anywhere along the left half. Piss poor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUBCQ...eature=related
Dude he's swiping at a loose puck with the defense coming down on him... Giroux put one into the pipe last night with an empty net.

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04-27-2011, 04:00 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude he's swiping at a loose puck with the defense coming down on him... Giroux put one into the pipe last night with an empty net.
Good point. Giroux is a bum

Anyone can find one highlight to make a guy look like a bum. I can make a collection of videos about how Gretzky sucked. He is human, he did make mistakes.

Carter 1 shot does not prove he had good or bad series. Lets watch the games. Wait we did. He had a very good series.

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04-27-2011, 04:02 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude he's swiping at a loose puck with the defense coming down on him... Giroux put one into the pipe last night with an empty net.
Giroux made a sweet move and had less of an open net to finish, but I was still disappointed. Carter didn't get hit by a defenseman until well after he threw it directly to the center of the net. In fact, he doesn't get cleared out until he's attempting another stuff off of the rebound. Literally anything on the entire left half of the net is a goal.

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04-27-2011, 04:03 PM
  #189
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I think most of us realize that goals and saves aren't all there is to the game. There are so many other things that a player does to contribute and if the goals aren't going in, they can step up in other areas. People are ragging on Kesler because he hasn't put up points but he's been facing the Toews line so they've neutered each other. It happens. There are also less goals scored in the playoffs so you can't expect goal production to be on par or better than from your high scorers because they're going to be targetted.

Looking at it purely from a point production point of view is shortsighted.

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04-27-2011, 04:16 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Giroux made a sweet move and had less of an open net to finish, but I was still disappointed. Carter didn't get hit by a defenseman until well after he threw it directly to the center of the net. In fact, he doesn't get cleared out until he's attempting another stuff off of the rebound. Literally anything on the entire left half of the net is a goal.
Ah, yeah, but if he tries to actually control that and aim the shot, the defenseman's stick is going to be there. You're in that type of situation, you just want to get it on net as quickly as possible... still an incredible reflex/quickness save by MAF.

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04-27-2011, 04:24 PM
  #191
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Point of all of this: They can certainly win with Carter, and they can certainly win without him. I don't doubt that he will score a clutch goal or two at some point of the playoffs, whether it be this year or down the road. I just don't think he's instrumental to this team's success, and I don't think he can be counted on to be the type of guy to own the play and be a consistent force come each postseason. When you have no farm system and no draft picks, your team gets old quick. Recipe for disaster. I would by no means give Carter away, but if you could land a package that brings a couple elite prospects/high picks, or land an elite goalie (tough, because there's only a few), I'd consider it heavily.

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04-27-2011, 04:31 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
Point of all of this: They can certainly win with Carter, and they can certainly win without him. I don't doubt that he will score a clutch goal or two at some point of the playoffs, whether it be this year or down the road. I just don't think he's instrumental to this team's success, and I don't think he can be counted on to be the type of guy to own the play and be a consistent force come each postseason. When you have no farm system and no draft picks, your team gets old quick. Recipe for disaster. I would by no means give Carter away, but if you could land a package that brings a couple elite prospects/high picks, or land an elite goalie (tough, because there's only a few), I'd consider it heavily.
This team does NOT need to move a proven young talent like Carter for a bunch of unproven talent.

They do need to keep their damned picks, though.

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04-27-2011, 04:54 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
He played great in that series, was just snakebit and banged up. MAF had multiple sensational saves on him. Meanwhile Richards was getting absolutely gutted by Crosby.
Including PP and EN, Richards was out for 3 of Crosby's 8 points in that series. Carter was out for 4 of Crosby's 8 points. Not sure 'absolutely gutted' is the best way to put it.

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04-27-2011, 05:00 PM
  #194
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Can we leave this thread to the actual discussion of Carters injury?

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04-27-2011, 05:34 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Can we leave this thread to the actual discussion of Carters injury?
We are. We're discussing Carter's strained clutch, and whether it's career-threatening or not.

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04-27-2011, 06:05 PM
  #196
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Carter's goals aside from his rookie season:

Regular season: .415 goals per game which 34 goals per 82 games.
Playoffs: .33 goals per game which is 27 goals per 82 games.

He's played through a ton of injuries in the playoffs and he's still scoring at a decent rate. Is he tearing it up? No but we all know Carter scores in bunches. If he comes back in game 3 of the series and he scores 5 goals in 5 games he would be at a career pace)aside from his rookie season) of 34 goals per 82 games just like he is in the regular season. That's how fast Carter get back to his regular season pace and that's with a slew of injuries.

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04-27-2011, 07:28 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
Including PP and EN, Richards was out for 3 of Crosby's 8 points in that series. Carter was out for 4 of Crosby's 8 points. Not sure 'absolutely gutted' is the best way to put it.
He was -4... bet I know the other player that had some points on Richards in that series. Now that I think about it, didn't they pull a switch and put Richards on Malkin? Who had 7 points in that series, I think.

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04-27-2011, 08:04 PM
  #198
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http://phillyreign.com/articles/jeff...mr-opportunity

I know that the usual suspects are going to try and poke holes in every single argument in this article but it looks to me like he's made a lot of good points.

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04-27-2011, 09:24 PM
  #199
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leafs fan here,

whats the status of carter, will he be ready for the 2nd round against boston?

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04-27-2011, 09:46 PM
  #200
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leafs fan here,

whats the status of carter, will he be ready for the 2nd round against boston?


Signs point to yes.

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