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2011 9th Overall + (to move up)

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Old
04-27-2011, 01:21 PM
  #1
Shaun
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2011 9th Overall + (to move up)

Say Peter Chiarelli has his eyes set on Player X and he feels that the player wouldn't be available at 9. What would teams 1-8 realistically want for their picks? I know Edmonton probably won't trade #1 and some others are unlikely but what would it take to move up?

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04-27-2011, 04:35 PM
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Homesick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Say Peter Chiarelli has his eyes set on Player X and he feels that the player wouldn't be available at 9. What would teams 1-8 realistically want for their picks? I know Edmonton probably won't trade #1 and some others are unlikely but what would it take to move up?
Well considering that on HF; every fan of a team that holds picks 2-8 say the top 8 are all interchangeable. So it would take a massive overpayment on here

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04-27-2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Well considering that on HF; every fan of a team that holds picks 2-8 say the top 8 are all interchangeable. So it would take a massive overpayment on here
no you have it backwards, teams wont trade as much to move up, because teams can get relatively equal players Staying where they are.

teams will pay less to move up than they would if their were defined tiers where the perceived talent levels are much greater than they actually are

your problem is that as an Oiler fan you want your #1 pick to be be worth more than it actually is and youre angry that it isnt. until you realize that there is no Ovechkin or Crosby in this draft who stands out from the rest, as Elite, you will continue to be disappointed.

your own Bias is limiting your ability to see the truth

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04-27-2011, 05:06 PM
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SLAPSHOT723
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I don't think the top-8 picks are going to trade outside of the top-8.

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04-27-2011, 05:26 PM
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Homesick
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
no you have it backwards, teams wont trade as much to move up, because teams can get relatively equal players Staying where they are.

teams will pay less to move up than they would if their were defined tiers where the perceived talent levels are much greater than they actually are

your problem is that as an Oiler fan you want your #1 pick to be be worth more than it actually is and youre angry that it isnt. until you realize that there is no Ovechkin or Crosby in this draft who stands out from the rest, as Elite, you will continue to be disappointed.

your own Bias is limiting your ability to see the truth
I don't give a flying **** what some posters on HF think. I'll take the word of the majority of professional scouts.
I've never claimed that any player in this draft is on the Crosby/Ovechkin level. Go ahead...creep through my previous posts again and try to find anything resembling the fact, or shut up.

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04-27-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I don't give a flying **** what some posters on HF think. I'll take the word of the majority of professional scouts.
I've never claimed that any player in this draft is on the Crosby/Ovechkin level. Go ahead...creep through my previous posts again and try to find anything resembling the fact, or shut up.
Lol, he hit the nail on the head. It's why you're having feelings of anger right now. Some fans are so simple

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04-27-2011, 06:27 PM
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Lol, he hit the nail on the head. It's why you're having feelings of anger right now. Some fans are so simple
Find me a recent credible source that says the top 8 are all interchangeable, or that RNH isn't the #1. You can go through my posts as well, and see that I'm not even a fan of Nugent-Hopkins. I was angry because the poster is just trying to stir things up by implying that I believe that there's a super elite talent in this draft, and that I'm biased towards a certain player.
http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=361993
6 votes for Nugent-Hopkins
2 votes for Larsson
2 votes for Landeskog

damn those biased professionals

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04-27-2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Find me a recent credible source that says the top 8 are all interchangeable, or that RNH isn't the #1. You can go through my posts as well, and see that I'm not even a fan of Nugent-Hopkins. I was angry because the poster is just trying to stir things up by implying that I believe that there's a super elite talent in this draft, and that I'm biased towards a certain player.
http://tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=361993
6 votes for Nugent-Hopkins
2 votes for Larsson
2 votes for Landeskog

damn those biased professionals
Where did i say that?

What i said was:

"your problem is that as an Oiler fan you want your #1 pick to be be worth more than it actually is and youre angry that it isnt."

I stand by that. Just because more scouts think Nugent-Hopkins is better than anyone else doesnt mean he is Worth all that much more than the players around him, it could be 10-0 in favor of Nugent-Hopkins, or any other player and all that could mean that Nugent-Hopkins or any other player is the smallest fraction better than anyone else.

if on a scale of 100, the number 1 pick is a 90 and the next 7 players are graded as 89 then the number 1 pick is barely more Valuable than anyone else.

if however the number 1 pick was a 90 and the next 7 players are graded as 69 then the number 1 pick , is much more Valuable than anyone else.

once again I said:

"your problem is that as an Oiler fan you want your #1 pick to be be worth more than it actually is and youre angry that it isnt." I stand by that


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Old
04-27-2011, 06:57 PM
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Even by HF standards, I'm amazed how quickly this thread got derailed

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04-27-2011, 07:53 PM
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I doubt you'd be able to move up more then two or three, if that. No team will drop farther then that for anything that isn't a game changer, it wouldn't make sense for them.

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Old
04-27-2011, 08:23 PM
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why would the oil trade down for anything less then an overpayment they get to choose their guy, who give a flying **** whose considered number 1 u want to move up u pay

as for the original idea depends how high you want to go and what other teams need, boston would be looking at a defencemen am i right in saying, so there are 3-4 good young d in this draft and they might even fall to you guys

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04-27-2011, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by oilers92 View Post
why would the oil trade down for anything less then an overpayment they get to choose their guy, who give a flying **** whose considered number 1 u want to move up u pay

as for the original idea depends how high you want to go and what other teams need, boston would be looking at a defencemen am i right in saying, so there are 3-4 good young d in this draft and they might even fall to you guys
im not saying the oil should trade down for anything less then an overpayment. Im just saying teams are less likely to make an overpayment if they perceive the value of the top picks is relatively equal

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Old
04-27-2011, 08:57 PM
  #13
Johnny Bravo
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Hemsky+1st overall+31 overall
for
Seguin+9th overall

Do you know what really grinds my gears?

When people highlight sentences in blue.

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Old
04-27-2011, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallsgotTigerBlood View Post

Do you know what really grinds my gears?

When people highlight sentences in blue.
Sorry but When people do not correctly comprehend the point behind my statements I feel the need to highlight it

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Old
04-27-2011, 09:21 PM
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Shaun
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This thread went to **** might as well close it.


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Old
04-27-2011, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallsgotTigerBlood View Post
Hemsky+1st overall+31 overall
for
Seguin+9th overall

Do you know what really grinds my gears?

When people highlight sentences in blue.
You know what really grinds my gears. When Oil fans think the Bruins want Hemsky. HUGE NO on your offer if you couldn't figure that out

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:51 PM
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Judging from what I heard on Behind The Draft 2009 (Leafs) from Burke, and from trades that have teams moving up/down 1 or two spots, 1st+3rd moves you up a pick, maybe two, but only if you aren't picking who the team owning the pick you are trading for wants.

I really think that unless someone in the top 6-8 teams is going off the board with their pick they will not be trading down, but I guess we will see in just under 2 months!

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Old
04-28-2011, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
no you have it backwards, teams wont trade as much to move up, because teams can get relatively equal players Staying where they are.

teams will pay less to move up than they would if their were defined tiers where the perceived talent levels are much greater than they actually are

your problem is that as an Oiler fan you want your #1 pick to be be worth more than it actually is and youre angry that it isnt. until you realize that there is no Ovechkin or Crosby in this draft who stands out from the rest, as Elite, you will continue to be disappointed.

your own Bias is limiting your ability to see the truth
This is the most jaw-droppingly pompous thing I've ever read.

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Old
04-28-2011, 01:08 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
This is the most jaw-droppingly pompous thing I've ever read.
but its true. oiler fans just dont want to accept it, but it would be just as true if the Islanders had the first pick.

sometimes the distribution of talent is such that teams with the 1st pick have incredible leverage, look at the Lindros Draft year, and What Quebec was able to leverage from their pick, then look at the Fleury draft, are you going to tell me those situations were the same?

its all Economics, the forces of supply and demand, it might be easier to relate to if you pretended it was a commodity instead of players

pretend we were talking about Sugar, Splenda and Equal, since most people view them as interchangeable, the only way someone would pay a premium would be if they had a personal preference, but even then they wouldnt go crazy, now pretend youre talking Cars and you have a new Ford, A new Volvo, or a new Mercedes, The Guy with the first Pick in going to have incredible Leverage because the Usefulness of the 3 cars in so different as well as their lifespans

All im saying is that The number one pick has different values from year to year relative to the perceived value of the following picks and for any team to think the first pick has the same leverage from year to year is ridiculous

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Old
04-28-2011, 02:52 AM
  #20
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Clearly you mean what would Chia ask for to trade down so that the Oilers can have another top 10 pick

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Old
04-28-2011, 03:12 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallsgotTigerBlood View Post
Hemsky+1st overall+31 overall
for
Seguin+9th overall

Do you know what really grinds my gears?

When people highlight sentences in blue.
i think hemsky is almost worthless and i actually think i like your proposal.

i might tweek it some though

seguin/first are probably close to a fair exchange cause boston has some cap problems next year and cant put seguin into the ahl and maybe cant afford his cap hit if hes still just a 3rd line talent. krecji/bergeron are not old and boston can make do with them as the 1/2 punch at center until savard either comes back or retires and clears up his cap room.

boston would be better off with the big swedish winger or dman then seguin with how things are breaking down for them... however i wouldnt make this trade 1-for-1

i really dont want any piece of hemsky... trade him somewhere else. i might not mind taking a chance on tom gilbert though and his huge contract if edmonton takes back andrew ference to balance out that exchange a bit. gilbert is probably only a 3/4 guy and overpaid as such... but he does have the skills boston needs and boston would surround him with better talent then he has in edmonton. Ference is a great character leader and from edmonton area... a huge upgrade over strudwick as their old man on the blueline there to help the kids learn to be winners.

boston can use the increase in cap coming this year to find another top 4 dman off the ufa market cheaper then karberle will want {maybe a guy like hamerlik?} and probably come out a better shot at a cup next year.

the kid they draft may not ultimately be as good as seguin, but we arent sure seguin is going to be a guy that puts a team onto his back either. im sure hes more talented then anyone in this year's draft but i am a bit concerned when i hear him do interviews that maybe hes not that intellegent? too shy? im not sure what it is, but some vibe off him is giving me flashback feelings to joe thornton and phil kessel.

give me the oiler first/gilbert
for seguin/ference and i get tempted to pull the trigger if im boston gm

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Old
04-28-2011, 03:19 AM
  #22
Dr Danglefest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallsgotTigerBlood View Post
Hemsky+1st overall+31 overall
for
Seguin+9th overall

Do you know what really grinds my gears?

When people highlight sentences in blue.
You know what really grinds my gears?

When people post brutal trade proposals that have got shot down a million times

The seguin for EDM2011 1st thread ended in ashes after the flamefest and ensuing ****show.

Hemsky and a 2nd rounder is actually less than what's been offered for the 9th pick in previous threads and has been shot down more times than nessesary.

Putting the two in a mega deal is just embarassing

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