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Official Post-Season Discussion. Update: Gauthier to meet with Meehan

View Poll Results: Do you think Wiz will sign with the Habs ?
Yes 25 29.07%
No 61 70.93%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-28-2011, 10:32 AM
  #101
Andy
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I don't think Richards is a smart move either.

I'd shore up the D myself. Having a really deep and strong D with Martin as coach and Price as the goalie is going to mean wins. Gotta play to our strengths.
This...all the way.

Look at the Pens once Crosby and Malkin went down. Bylsma bit the bullet and exploited the next best thing...his defense and goaltendering.

Martin, Letang, Orpik and Michalek is a great top 4 + a hot Fleury won them games consistently.

Had JM had younger defense with better footspeed, we probably would not be having offseason discussions right now.

Montreal really needs to push for Ehrhoff. Great two-way d-man. Good foot speed, great defensive game. Plays a little chippy. Good first pass and can lead a rush when he wants to.

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04-28-2011, 10:33 AM
  #102
Kriss E
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I don't want Brad Richards here. I'm pretty sure he would flop. He didn't want to come here before as Mtl wasn't part of the list of teams he wished to be traded to.
Personally, I think he'll go to TB or re-sign in Dallas. I have a feeling TO will throw ridiculous numbers at him as well, but I just don't think he wants to play in big markets.

I'm perfectly fine living with Plek/Eller/DD as our top 3 centers if need be. Maybe sign a decent #2 center for 1-2years at the most. But if we let Gomez go, I don't think it would be to sign a #1 center, pushing back Eller/DD. I don't mind if it's a winger, but not center.
Like others have pointed out, with Hammer-Sopel-Gill-Mara-Picard all free, we need to upgrade the D.

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04-28-2011, 10:53 AM
  #103
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Much as I like the idea of loading up on D, how many do we really need?

If Markov and all RFA re-sign, the top-4 is already Markov-Subban-Gorges-Spacek. Erhoff certainly would bump Spacek off this list, but how much money is it wise to spend on the blueline versus the forwards?

I realize that missing two top D is probably what held the Habs back, but at the same time, the Habs managed to ice a strong blueline group despite missing those two guys. Defensive depth is probably Montreal's strongest suit already. I'm not sure it makes sense to load up even more.

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04-28-2011, 10:56 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
This...all the way.

Look at the Pens once Crosby and Malkin went down. Bylsma bit the bullet and exploited the next best thing...his defense and goaltendering.

Martin, Letang, Orpik and Michalek is a great top 4 + a hot Fleury won them games consistently.

Had JM had younger defense with better footspeed, we probably would not be having offseason discussions right now.

Montreal really needs to push for Ehrhoff. Great two-way d-man. Good foot speed, great defensive game. Plays a little chippy. Good first pass and can lead a rush when he wants to.
P.K. Subban?The Wiz? The Markov? we already have that all we need is more of Josh Gorges type maybe a litle bigger and stronger who can fight when needed.

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04-28-2011, 10:59 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Much as I like the idea of loading up on D, how many do we really need?

If Markov and all RFA re-sign, the top-4 is already Markov-Subban-Gorges-Spacek. Erhoff certainly would bump Spacek off this list, but how much money is it wise to spend on the blueline versus the forwards?

I realize that missing two top D is probably what held the Habs back, but at the same time, the Habs managed to ice a strong blueline group despite missing those two guys. Defensive depth is probably Montreal's strongest suit already. I'm not sure it makes sense to load up even more.
A lot on D. I would like to replace Hamrlik's defense stability with someone a little quicker on his feet as well as younger. Hamrlik gets bashed a lot, but he eats a lot of responsible minutes.

I'm hoping we sign Ehrhoff and Hejda. If we can't get either, look at Ericsson and Pitkanen

Spacek can play on the bench for all I care. There are a lot of good D men on the market that shape our team for the next 4-5 years.

Markov Gorges
Hejda Subban
xxxx Ehrhoff

xxxx means another responsible defensive d-man with good foot speed.

This is our chnce to really shore up the D and change our identity on the backend. Martin's system with quicker D who don't have to play extra conservative because they lack the footspeed to make it back their own zone would do us wonders.

Plus a Markov-Ehrhoff PP would drive teams insane.

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04-28-2011, 11:00 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
P.K. Subban?The Wiz? The Markov? we already have that all we need is more of Josh Gorges type maybe a litle bigger and stronger who can fight when needed.
The Wiz doesn't have the same footspeed as Ehrhoff. Plus Ehrhoff is much superior defensively. Actually it's not even close. Ehrhoff can play 20 responsible minutes defensively while setting up plays offensively.

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04-28-2011, 11:00 AM
  #107
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I hope Emelin comes over, his gamestyle is very north-american. He likes physical play and with the smaller rinks in NA, he is gonna love it!

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04-28-2011, 11:19 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Much as I like the idea of loading up on D, how many do we really need?

If Markov and all RFA re-sign, the top-4 is already Markov-Subban-Gorges-Spacek. Erhoff certainly would bump Spacek off this list, but how much money is it wise to spend on the blueline versus the forwards?

I realize that missing two top D is probably what held the Habs back, but at the same time, the Habs managed to ice a strong blueline group despite missing those two guys. Defensive depth is probably Montreal's strongest suit already. I'm not sure it makes sense to load up even more.
You can add Weber there too.
But it makes sense because
a) According to previous reports, Markov was expected to be out for a full year. That would mean mid-november for a return.
b) We don't know just how good both Markov and Gorges will be. Gorges just recently said he's learning how to skate all over again.

So yes, these two players will be back, and I don't doubt they'll still be good, but how good, I don't know.

As great as Hammer and Gill have been for us, I rather we upgraded to younger and faster Dmen. I had come up with numbers which included two new Dmen from open market (one of 5.5, another at about 3.5M) on top of re-signing Markov and Gorges while also retaining Spacek because trading him away is not something I can be sure management will do. That set us up for about 22-23M, which should be about 1/3rd of the cap space. I believe that is fair.
Looking at teams like Detroit, Philly, Chicago, Washington, Vancouver, they all spent about 1/3rd of this year's cap on Defense.

Markov(5.75)-Weber(.875) = 6.625
Ehrhoff(5.75)-Gorges(3) = 8.75
Hejda(3.5)-PK(.875) = 4.375
Spacek (3.8) = 3.8

TOTAL= 23.55M
The salaries can be changed a bit, maybe a little less to Markov, Gorges and Hejda. If Spacek is moved, the cap hit drops to under 20M and we can add a D like Mara purely for depth at about 1M.
I would be more than content with spending this much, considering the cap goes up about 3M. If not, perhaps give longer deals in order to bring the cap hit down.

I really would not mind spending this much on it.

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04-28-2011, 11:24 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
zone would do us wonders.

Plus a Markov-Ehrhoff PP would drive teams insane.
Markov-Ehrhoff
PK-Weber

I believe Weber will truly come into his own next year, and I want him to be a regular for us. He might have disappointed some when used on the PP this year, but I believe that's normal. Just like it took some time for PK to get going on the PK.

That would be two insanely powerful PP units. I would certainly put my money on us being at the top of the NHL for the PP again.

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04-28-2011, 11:26 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Markov-Ehrhoff
PK-Weber

I believe Weber will truly come into his own next year, and I want him to be a regular for us. He might have disappointed some when used on the PP this year, but I believe that's normal. Just like it took some time for PK to get going on the PK.

That would be two insanely powerful PP units. I would certainly put my money on us being at the top of the NHL for the PP again.
Wisniewski, Markov, Subban and Weber on our powerplay lines would do the same thing. Give Wisniewski that dough and use Hamrlik's salary towards a top line forward.

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04-28-2011, 11:26 AM
  #111
Andy
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
You can add Weber there too.
But it makes sense because
a) According to previous reports, Markov was expected to be out for a full year. That would mean mid-november for a return.
b) We don't know just how good both Markov and Gorges will be. Gorges just recently said he's learning how to skate all over again.

So yes, these two players will be back, and I don't doubt they'll still be good, but how good, I don't know.

As great as Hammer and Gill have been for us, I rather we upgraded to younger and faster Dmen. I had come up with numbers which included two new Dmen from open market (one of 5.5, another at about 3.5M) on top of re-signing Markov and Gorges while also retaining Spacek because trading him away is not something I can be sure management will do. That set us up for about 22-23M, which should be about 1/3rd of the cap space. I believe that is fair.
Looking at teams like Detroit, Philly, Chicago, Washington, Vancouver, they all spent about 1/3rd of this year's cap on Defense.

Markov(5.75)-Weber(.875) = 6.625
Ehrhoff(5.75)-Gorges(3) = 8.75
Hejda(3.5)-PK(.875) = 4.375
Spacek (3.8) = 3.8

TOTAL= 23.55M
The salaries can be changed a bit, maybe a little less to Markov, Gorges and Hejda. If Spacek is moved, the cap hit drops to under 20M and we can add a D like Mara purely for depth at about 1M.
I would be more than content with spending this much, considering the cap goes up about 3M. If not, perhaps give longer deals in order to bring the cap hit down.

I really would not mind spending this much on it.
totally forgot about Weber.

I'm not sure if he's ready for a more prominent role defensively. But he's shown great things. He's the type of player I'd want to insulate with a defensive D-man.

But the defensive lineup you've put forth has great puckmoving abilities. It also has 4 d-men who can join the rush which would be great for the type of team the Canadiens are.

Markov Ehrhoff
Gorges Subban
Hejda Weber

Someone will have to play of their off wing that's for sure.

Markov and Ehrhoff would eat some big minutes.

EDIT: I've seen you posted something else. I'm not to sure about Weber's defensive game. But you are right. He really is coming around offensively. I've doubted him, but he has too much hockey sense. There's no way he won't be successful offensively with the tools he has.

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04-28-2011, 11:28 AM
  #112
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I hope Emelin comes over, his gamestyle is very north-american. He likes physical play and with the smaller rinks in NA, he is gonna love it!
6-0, 187

I mean, how good is this guy... really? Could he put up points? I find it hard to believe he could play a tough style in the NHL at that size.

I would keep Gill until Tinordi is ready. I would keep Gorges. Can this guy play in the top 4?

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04-28-2011, 11:29 AM
  #113
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I hope Emelin comes over, his gamestyle is very north-american. He likes physical play and with the smaller rinks in NA, he is gonna love it!
If he cools down on the hooking he loves and adores....sure. Tons of adaptation still for him. I don't see him being a starter just yet. Half of a season with the Dogs at the very least.

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04-28-2011, 11:30 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Wisniewski, Markov, Subban and Weber on our powerplay lines would do the same thing. Give Wisniewski that dough and use Hamrlik's salary towards a top line forward.
I'd rather give the dough to Ehrhoff because he's superior defensively to Wisniewski.

We need D-men that can play great D. Losing Gill and Hamrlik will hurt the defensive side of the game tremendously.

Keeping Wisniewski doesn't help with the holes on the defensive side of the game.

Getting Ehrhoff allows us to fill the hole of losing Wisniewski, but it also brings the same defensive stability a guy like Gill brought.(not to the same extent, but Ehrhoff is no slouch in his own zone...far from it).

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04-28-2011, 11:34 AM
  #115
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while I agree that getting rid of Gomez only to end up overpaying for Richards would not be an ideal move, i think it's easy to see how that would make us much, much better...


Simply put, imagine how much more dangerous this current roster would have been if you add Richards and his production, leadership & clutch playoff perfromances.

he's basically what Gomez was supposed to be for us, except he could realistically provide it.


While a Richards-Plekanec-Eller top 3 wouldn't improve our need for gritty play in our top-9, it would fit perfectly well with the mould of the team, and gives us better offensive production (which was really our biggest flaw this season... the cause is debatable, but the numbers speak for themselves, defensively we were an elite team, offensively-especially 5-on-5, we were a lottery team).


with a 6-7M$ Richards instead of Gomez, we'd still be in a tight cap situation, but imo it would significantly improve our overall team play (it's not just his production, it's the impact it would have on pleks/second line, who would no longer see opposing teams top defensive/shutdown players on a regular basis), as well.

we'd still have the issues of overhauling our defense, and trying to find a top-9 winger to add some physicality to the lineup, but those issues would be less glaring without a 40pt 2nd line centre chewing up so much of the cap.


With this current group, I'd rather see Eller play in Gomez's role, I think he can be about as productive (40-50pts with a scoring winger & pp time is very realistic imo), and he showed this week that he is already a better overall player (puck possesion, turnovers, defensive play).

But ideally we'd have him play on our third line for another few years, without the pressure of the team "needing" him to produce. With Gomez ahead of him, that's hard to stomach, with RIchards it would be no problem.

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04-28-2011, 11:40 AM
  #116
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If you have a centerline of Plek - Richards - Eller, believe me, you won't have a single problem to deal one of them if they become too good of a centerline.

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04-28-2011, 11:41 AM
  #117
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totally forgot about Weber.

I'm not sure if he's ready for a more prominent role defensively. But he's shown great things. He's the type of player I'd want to insulate with a defensive D-man.

But the defensive lineup you've put forth has great puckmoving abilities. It also has 4 d-men who can join the rush which would be great for the type of team the Canadiens are.

Markov Ehrhoff
Gorges Subban
Hejda Weber

Someone will have to play of their off wing that's for sure.

Markov and Ehrhoff would eat some big minutes.

EDIT: I've seen you posted something else. I'm not to sure about Weber's defensive game. But you are right. He really is coming around offensively. I've doubted him, but he has too much hockey sense. There's no way he won't be successful offensively with the tools he has.
Not that I think Weber is a defensive gem, but much like O'Byrne, the kid just needs to play and learn. Even a potential superstar in PK had to learn and adapt, Price also, so it's only normal that Weber goes through his share of struggles.
Good or bad, he needs to play, because there is no doubt in my mind he will become a good Dman in the NHL. I don't want that to happen on another team.

I kept Gorges on the right because I don't know if either Hejda or Ehrhoff are comfortable on the right side.

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04-28-2011, 11:43 AM
  #118
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Montreal really needs to push for Ehrhoff. Great two-way d-man. Good foot speed, great defensive game. Plays a little chippy. Good first pass and can lead a rush when he wants to.
I got to admit, I'm not so big on bringing on Ehrhoff either. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be disappointed if we signed him but next year we will most likely have Markov and Subban and stand a good chance of having Wisniewski. If we're going to bring in another puck-mover I'd like to see Weber get a little more time next season. Ideally, I think we should resign Mara and rotate the two of them based on our opponents.

Regardless of what we do with those two, if we're going to spend the type of money it would likely take to get Ehrhoff I'd rather spend it on one who doesn't mind throwing their body around. We're tough to play against in our own zone but we need to give opposition a reason to keep their head up besides looking for a pass/shot.

The defence men I have my eye on going into Free Agency are Shane O'Brein, Steve Montador, Andrew Alberts, and Steve Eminger.

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04-28-2011, 11:44 AM
  #119
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Wisniewski, Markov, Subban and Weber on our powerplay lines would do the same thing. Give Wisniewski that dough and use Hamrlik's salary towards a top line forward.
Not quite sure. You have three righties, so Markov would have trouble setting up that one time shot he always does, and we all know he's not as comfortable playing on the right side.
Markov-Ehrhoff...Two lefties, so you have that one timer from Ehrhoff set up on the right side.
PK-Weber...Two righties, so you have that one timer from PK set up on the left side.

Ehrhoff is also better overall than Wiz.

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04-28-2011, 11:45 AM
  #120
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6-0, 187

I mean, how good is this guy... really? Could he put up points? I find it hard to believe he could play a tough style in the NHL at that size.

I would keep Gill until Tinordi is ready. I would keep Gorges. Can this guy play in the top 4?
Niklas Kronwall

6'0, 192 pounds. He hits like a truck... sometimes players just have the technique.

Also, some websites have Emelin at 6'1 222 pounds which is quite a big discrepancy. Not sure who is right.

In regards to defense, the only problem with our team was mobility, but we do have to keep in mind the impact some players had on our team. Gill, no matter how imobile, is vital to this team's chemistry, leadership and the maturation of PK Subban. We don't need another offensive defenseman. We have enough as it is. We need some stay at home types with good footspeed, size and a good outlet pass. The name that comes to mind is Steve Montador.

Markov Wiz
Montrador Subban
Gill Gorges
Spacek/Weber

Although there isnt much size, we can all agree that Wiz, Montador, Subban and Gill are all gritty types who won't get pushed around. This lineup is mobile, and much younger than the core we had this season. Only problem is Spacek, who isn't that bad in a limited role and with the right partner.

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04-28-2011, 11:46 AM
  #121
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Team needs a better mix of players. When the dipsy doodle moves don't work, you need that garbage goals in front. When you can't have that great transition game, you need that work along the boards to work.

As far as Gomez is concerned, stop with that freakin nonsense or you'll be so dissapointed. You know that they will want to try a full season of Gionta and MaxPac with him. And chances are he will improve his numbers, not that it's too hard.

Now, the D is what's more important here. This needs to be fix. Markov has to be signed, we have no other choice, he's the best d-man available out there in the UFA market and we happen to be able to sign him before he goes UFA. But then, enough of the Markov injury excuse starting right now. IF you sign him, YOU accept the possibility of him getting injured so you need to build your D's so that you're covered in case he's gone, which means having more puckmoving d-men and concentrating on the fact that your D squad HAS to be the main focus. All fun and dandy to keep Hammer, Gill, Sopel or whatever, but you need your D to be faster and younger. More physical would also be ideal but then it becomes an ideal defense....But the idea is that your D has to improve AND you need the backup in case Markov drops again.

In front....I'd try to be faster. Whether it's by a trade or not, stronger on the wings to have that better mix. The 3 guys I'm targeted to be moved are Pouliot, AKost and Moen. Note: I'm moving them ONLY if we end up improving...I'm not moving them solely for the pleasure of doing it. But while Moen brings that size we don't have, I believe there are playing that could still bring you size but more speed as Moen's speed seems to decline as the years passes...AKost is more problematic, clearly a case of "Another ex doing better elsewhere", but his game 7 made me really mad. Yet, he had a fine overtime and that's even more frustrating....

Another point: Auld has to go. If you don't have the confidence to give your #2 goalie some games, he's not worth signing. I hope they don't drop the ball as far as Ramo is concerned. This guy cannot sign in Russia, don't let him do it. If it's not to play as our #2, he can clearly serve as trade bait.

Can't wait to see what the management will be made of. No surprise to see Muller being gone. Not sure I heard perfectly, but McGuire said that there will be changes, was he talking about Pearn as well? So with Muller out, pretty clear to believe that Cunneyworth is up and maybe our friend Pascal "the trap" Vincent is in Hamilton next year....

The other changes might be about some players in Hamilton. I'm personnaly expecting to see Carle being traded. Will Sanford be back? Wyman has been here for years....what kind of leverage does he have to ask for a trade or something....What about Henry and those AHL'ers?


Last edited by Whitesnake: 04-28-2011 at 12:02 PM.
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04-28-2011, 12:01 PM
  #122
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I'll offer actual Hammer's money to Ehrhoff.
Re-sign Markov
Re-sign Gill
Re-sign Gorges
Re-sign Darche
Find a top 6 winger.

That my five ''big move'' of the summer.

edit: totally forgot about Gorges...make it six big moves.


Last edited by CareyClutch: 04-28-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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04-28-2011, 12:04 PM
  #123
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If we're not going to re-sign Halpern we should try for Handzus. Or even Zenon Kenopka

He's not as good as Halpern in the faceoff circle, but he is a bigger body.

Next we need 2, but would prefer 3 of:

Andrei Markov
Joni Pitkanen
Kevin Bieksa
James Wisniewski.
Christian Ehrhoff
Jan Hejda

Jim Vandemeer as our number 6 guy.

Forwards to look at.

Brooks Laich (Should be top priority imo)
Scottie Upshall
Ryan Jones
Michael Rupp
Brad Winchester
Simon Gagné

On the trading front.

Maybe look at Andrew Ladd. RFA at the end of the year. Anthony Stewart from Atlanta as well, but they might be able to get him cheap and keep him there.

Potentially Troy Brouwer depending on his willingness to negotiate. RFA Could be wanting a raise to 3 millish. Hawks still tight to the cap.

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04-28-2011, 12:05 PM
  #124
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Gomez must go! Eats up way too much cap!

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04-28-2011, 12:11 PM
  #125
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This...all the way.

Look at the Pens once Crosby and Malkin went down. Bylsma bit the bullet and exploited the next best thing...his defense and goaltendering.

Martin, Letang, Orpik and Michalek is a great top 4 + a hot Fleury won them games consistently.

Had JM had younger defense with better footspeed, we probably would not be having offseason discussions right now.

Montreal really needs to push for Ehrhoff. Great two-way d-man. Good foot speed, great defensive game. Plays a little chippy. Good first pass and can lead a rush when he wants to.
Ehrhoff is a good PPQB, but nothing more.
Scored as many pts as Wisniewski. In Vancouver. The #1 team in the regular season.
He is playing in a stacked-team, which often means that the appreciation of the player could be flawed. Same problem for Bieksa. They're both #2 in their pairings with Edler and Hamhuis respectively. Are they able to be the leader in a pairing ? I dont think so.

We have Subban and Weber, we should keep Markov, thats already 3 players with that ability in the roster.
Not to mention that they're going to be overpaid.

I dont want to throw 5M$ in a player more "complimentary" than truely a key-player.
I would rather use that money to get a guy like Brewer. Proven, reliable, you have a guy able to play against the best lines and eat a lot of icetime. And he could take care of both Hamrlik and Gill's job in the sense that he could be a #3 and a PK-specialist.

For the forwards, i already said it, but no one is a clear upgrade over Kostitsyn, i dont see the point of throwing a 4M$-4.5M$ contract to a player barely better, if he is, than the one we currently have. Especially since it means that you have to kick one player out of the lineup.
Find a Top-6 player, that easy to say, but to actually do it, thats not easy at all, no one fits the profile. Unless you are ready to take a huge gamble.

And i would like to see more argumentation about the names thrown, because honestly, it would take a lot to convince me that Vandermeer (really ? A guy currently "playing" as #6 in a team like Edmonton ?) could be a good fit, and how Laich or Upshall could be good options, because i dont think they are.

(Too expensive when we compare them to Kostitsyn and not likely at all to play on a 3rd line)

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