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Old
04-28-2011, 11:42 AM
  #76
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We will bury the contract in the minors... or trade him the offseason (Walker)

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04-28-2011, 11:44 AM
  #77
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And that's fine, but you're still going to be able to find the money to keep Gagne. It's going to be tight (obviously), but we were in a position to pick up a guy with a 3M contract this season... we had another guy making 2M... you need to find 250K to pay for Gagne at that point. That's it.

So, now I'm looking at the *ing idiocy that is the Shelley contract and the chunk of change from Walker.



No, his hand was NOT forced. Holmgren did not have to trade Gagne that's the very point I'm making. You can find the money on this roster.

And, no, we did not have to acquire another 4M range D necessarily to improve the D.
So after trading for Mez , signing Odonnell, adding shelly and resigning leighton where would that have put us in terms of the cap?

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04-28-2011, 11:45 AM
  #78
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The ultimate coup would be if they could resign Gagne for a little more than the Zherdev contract, still have Versteeg, and put a line of Gagne-Richards-Versteeg on the ice.
I think he burned the **** out of that bridge by how he handled Gagne.

Similar to last year, Gagne was pretty damn good for TB one he got healthy. 27 pts in the last 30 games, and +7. I'd wager they re-sign him to a cheaper deal.

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04-28-2011, 11:45 AM
  #79
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Zherdev is great but doesn't fit the flyers style of hockey.
He won't change his style so let him walk and watch him shine!

Like it or not, the flyers need more gritty goon type players because that it what GM/coach wants.

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04-28-2011, 11:47 AM
  #80
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So after trading for Mez , signing Odonnell, adding shelly and resigning leighton where would that have put us in terms of the cap?
Why the **** are we signing Shelley?

Don't sign Shelley and Zherdev, and you need 5.25-3.1 = 2.15M. You can find it. I don't know exactly what Walker counted for us this year, but you can subtract that number too.

Holmgren forced his own hand, not the other way around.

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04-28-2011, 11:48 AM
  #81
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We will bury the contract in the minors... or trade him the offseason (Walker)
Every team in the league could have just had him for half price... no one is trading for him this offseason.

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04-28-2011, 11:51 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think he burned the **** out of that bridge by how he handled Gagne.

Similar to last year, Gagne was pretty damn good for TB one he got healthy. 27 pts in the last 30 games, and +7. I'd wager they re-sign him to a cheaper deal.
Unfortunately, this is the truth.

Gagne was pretty pissed when he left last year. I remember some of the interviews he give, where he just said that he recommends the younger guys get signed long-term because there are no guarantees you'll get any loyalty, or something to that effect. He also said he wanted to go to Tampa because they talked about signing him for the long-term, and had the space to do it.

I wish he would come back on the cheap, but it ain't gonna happen.

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04-28-2011, 11:54 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Why the **** are we signing Shelley?

Don't sign Shelley and Zherdev, and you need 5.25-3.1 = 2.15M. You can find it. I don't know exactly what Walker counted for us this year, but you can subtract that number too.

Holmgren forced his own hand, not the other way around.
Say what you want about shelley, but pronger and richards wanted a guy like that on the team. They were tired of guys taking runs at them. Basically pronger is our gm, hence odonnell

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04-28-2011, 11:58 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Why the **** are we signing Shelley?

Don't sign Shelley and Zherdev, and you need 5.25-3.1 = 2.15M. You can find it. I don't know exactly what Walker counted for us this year, but you can subtract that number too.

Holmgren forced his own hand, not the other way around.
There's no doubt Homer ****ed up. He announced to the entire world that we needed to trade Gagne and Gagne said he'd refuse to go anywhere except Tampa. This allowed Yzerman to **** us royally.

Disregarding the mishandling of the situation, I think it was the right move to get rid of Gagne. Do you remember last year's playoffs? How many reliable dmen did we have? 4. We now have at least 5 on a nightly basis and somehow our offense is even better than last year. Of course the goaltending still sucks, but that's no different than last year. All in all, you have to admit that this team is superior to the 09-10 squad.

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04-28-2011, 12:07 PM
  #85
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Say what you want about shelley, but pronger and richards wanted a guy like that on the team. They were tired of guys taking runs at them. Basically pronger is our gm, hence odonnell
When were players taking runs at us? Richards does more damage than any player has done to us in recent memory by taking a run at us.

Shelley seems like a good guy, and a good teammate... but he's EGREGIOUSLY overpaid, and the terms of the contract are way too long.

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04-28-2011, 12:08 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
There's no doubt Homer ****ed up. He announced to the entire world that we needed to trade Gagne and Gagne said he'd refuse to go anywhere except Tampa. This allowed Yzerman to **** us royally.

Disregarding the mishandling of the situation, I think it was the right move to get rid of Gagne. Do you remember last year's playoffs? How many reliable dmen did we have? 4. We now have at least 5 on a nightly basis and somehow our offense is even better than last year. Of course the goaltending still sucks, but that's no different than last year. All in all, you have to admit that this team is superior to the 09-10 squad.
Stop citing the D. You could add depth on D without moving Gagne.

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04-28-2011, 12:11 PM
  #87
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Stop citing the D. You could add depth on D without moving Gagne.
We could have gotten 2 O'Donnell's if that's what you're looking for. The fact is this team had bigger issues in areas other than offense. Homer addressed one of them and our offense continued to be fairly dominant without Gagne. Let's not forget Gags was injured for half the season, too.

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04-28-2011, 12:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think he burned the **** out of that bridge by how he handled Gagne.

Similar to last year, Gagne was pretty damn good for TB one he got healthy. 27 pts in the last 30 games, and +7. I'd wager they re-sign him to a cheaper deal.
While I agree with you and I also think Gagne likes the idea of living in TB over Philly, I can still have some hope.

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04-28-2011, 12:14 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
We could have gotten 2 O'Donnell's if that's what you're looking for. The fact is this team had bigger issues in areas other than offense. Homer addressed one of them and our offense continued to be fairly dominant without Gagne. Let's not forget Gags was injured for half the season, too.
No, you could have added Meszaros and kept Gags. The math is right there, the problem is wasteful spending on other contracts and/or players who wouldn't be here if you'd kept Gagne (like Zherdev, and most likely Versteeg).

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04-28-2011, 12:15 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by number71 View Post
Zherdev is great but doesn't fit the flyers style of hockey.
He won't change his style so let him walk and watch him shine!

Like it or not, the flyers need more gritty goon type players because that it what GM/coach wants.
I have been saying this for awhile. Love having skill players on the roster but you also need to have guys willing to do all the little things, sometimes they are the ones who win the games where effort overtakes skill.

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04-28-2011, 12:25 PM
  #91
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No, you could have added Meszaros and kept Gags. The math is right there, the problem is wasteful spending on other contracts and/or players who wouldn't be here if you'd kept Gagne (like Zherdev, and most likely Versteeg).
Gagne was a huge question mark going into the season. You mention Gagne could be here instead of Zherdev and Versteeg, but those two outperformed Gagne in points 68 to 40 this year.

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04-28-2011, 12:31 PM
  #92
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Gagne was a huge question mark going into the season. You mention Gagne could be here instead of Zherdev and Versteeg, but those two outperformed Gagne in points 68 to 40 this year.
Actually, they had 33 points this year.

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04-28-2011, 12:37 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Say what you want about shelley, but pronger and richards wanted a guy like that on the team. They were tired of guys taking runs at them. Basically pronger is our gm, hence odonnell
Who the **** was taking runs at us??

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04-28-2011, 12:38 PM
  #94
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Gagne is gone... let's move on.....as the Flyers have as a team. Does it suck, yes. Is there anything we can do now, no.

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04-28-2011, 12:39 PM
  #95
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Who the **** was taking runs at us??
Nobody.

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04-28-2011, 12:39 PM
  #96
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Actually, they had 33 points this year.
If we're going in that direction, we'll only count the cap hit Versteeg cost us, which is around $1M since we got him at the deadline. 33 points for around $3M cap hit or 40 for around $5M?

Gagne was a great player for us over the years, but we need to move on. I'm more concerned about winning than making our guys feel good. Gagne clearly didn't feel he owed anything to the team that's paid him millions of dollars over the years when he handcuffed us into a deal with Tampa.

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04-28-2011, 12:41 PM
  #97
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If we're going in that direction, we'll only count the cap hit Versteeg cost us, which is around $1M since we got him at the deadline. 33 points for around $3M cap hit or 40 for around $5M?
Gagne's production might have been higher had he stayed in Philly, and was saved the emotional/mental stress of all that. He definitely would have had better numbers if he didn't got head first into the boards early in the season.

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04-28-2011, 12:43 PM
  #98
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If we're going in that direction, we'll only count the cap hit Versteeg cost us, which is around $1M since we got him at the deadline. 33 points for around $3M cap hit or 40 for around $5M?
And a PPG player since the All-Star break... just like he was last year.

Quote:
Gagne was a great player for us over the years, but we need to move on. I'm more concerned about winning than making our guys feel good. Gagne clearly didn't feel he owed anything to the team that's paid him millions of dollars over the years when he handcuffed us into a deal with Tampa.
You have got to be ****ing me with that sequence of BS.

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04-28-2011, 12:48 PM
  #99
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And a PPG player since the All-Star break... just like he was last year.



You have got to be ****ing me with that sequence of BS.
My opinion for awhile was that Gagne had to be the one to go. Of course I was pissed with the return and the way Homer handled it, but I felt the team needed to turn to a new page and restructure a bit. We got younger and filled holes because we traded Gagne.

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04-28-2011, 01:34 PM
  #100
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My opinion for awhile was that Gagne had to be the one to go. Of course I was pissed with the return and the way Homer handled it, but I felt the team needed to turn to a new page and restructure a bit. We got younger and filled holes because we traded Gagne.
And he was the bad guy because he didn't want to move?

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