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Old
04-28-2011, 02:28 PM
  #351
agentfouser
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Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Well, we would have to get rid of Smyth in order to fit him.

So Smyth to idk...Edmonton...if they would want him/he would go there.

The Rags will trade Gaborik as a salary dump if they sign Richards. So it wouldn't be too expensive to pry him away...

I'd say...Greene, Toffoli, and Hickey for Gaborik

We then sign someone like Gill for about 1-2 years at 2million to replace Greene.

Schenn plays in Manchester for the season, then replaces Stoll in the 2012 season.
Good post, I appreciate the thoughtful working through. I have to say, however, that I just don't see how Smyth goes anywhere. With that huge contract and a NMC (right? didn't he waive it come to LA?), any plan that includes moving Smyth is, to me, a non-starter.

And if top-6 defenseman is moved, I have to assume that Lombardi would fill that hole from within.

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04-28-2011, 02:35 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Will Lombardi go all in in this high stakes game of poker? History says no f'in way.
Sure.

Because Lombardi works in that magic NHL where the other teams, player motives, geography, friendships, and subjective decisions completely out of his control don't exist. So, it's all his fault.

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04-28-2011, 02:40 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
I'll take Gaborik.

Utah, this surprises me.

Still want Gaborik for $7.5 mil and another couple years on bad ice? How much more would we need to pay him before he shows up, scores, and wins in the playoffs?

A team like the Rangers sign this guy and he helps them glide through the regular season... all fun and games. Along the way, your working stiff players haven't learned how to grind it out and play together as a unit because Marion can snap one every other game. So why bother? Then they get in the playoffs and he disappears. Oops. Now what?

But, I don't know, maybe he scores more with Kopitar feeding him...maybe he plays better surrounded by Murray's system (more like Minnesota's). I just see him as a really skilled guy who gets shoved around and pushed to the perimeter in the playoffs.

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Old
04-28-2011, 02:47 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Sure.

Because Lombardi works in that magic NHL where the other teams, player motives, geography, friendships, and subjective decisions completely out of his control don't exist. So, it's all his fault.
Or you know, offering Kovalchuk a Hossa deal (which, following guidance from the league was considered the absolute limit of acceptable cap-bending) only to be blindsided by a deal that actually did circumvent the cap.

If it's not Lombardi's fault, it's Murray's.

Or Penner's.

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Old
04-28-2011, 02:54 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Sure.

Because Lombardi works in that magic NHL where the other teams, player motives, geography, friendships, and subjective decisions completely out of his control don't exist. So, it's all his fault.
I don't think anyone will fault Lombardi for things that are out of his control. that being said, do you really think DL ever goes into a negotiation without failure being an option? Sure that can get you into trouble but when you really want and need something, you need to go after it. DL's biggest strength is also a big weakness. He is so committed to his "plan" or "structure" and what he feels is right that he can't deviate from that even a tad. DL will overpay for UFA's as he has in the past. He just won't overpay for the big ticket guys which is something the Kings could desperately use.

The bottom line is an overpayment for Brad Richards isn't going to kill this team in the long run and could be a huge boost going forward. Should Lombardi go all in? Yes. Will he? Probably not.

The Leafs and Rangers don't have anything the Kings can't offer besides being an Original 6 franchise. If that is what is important to Brad Richards, then so be it. However, if he wants to win and get paid, he has as good a shot, if not better, to win with the Kings as he does those other two teams. That leaves one thing, the money.

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Old
04-28-2011, 02:58 PM
  #356
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I'm not sure if I want Gaborik. His numbers are all over the place. One year, he's over a ppg. Another year, he's well under. The next year, he's way over again.

It's not only his games played that is inconsistent, it's his production as well. It's really hard to gauge how he would do. He does seem to score no matter what conference he is in. But for as much as he costs, I'd like someone more consistent. If they are going to spend 7.5 on Gaborik, I'd rather see them throw 7.5 towards Richards, who is much more consistent.

If we get someone that pricey, it is going to impact if Schenn is up or not. I really have no idea about how bonuses work other than you can use a small percentage of some of your next year's cap to pay them. I'm guessing Schenn's bonuses wouldn't be easy to reach. I'd like to see him get some AHL time anyways, unless he blows minds at camp.

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Old
04-28-2011, 03:07 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
If we get someone that pricey, it is going to impact if Schenn is up or not. I really have no idea about how bonuses work other than you can use a small percentage of some of your next year's cap to pay them. I'm guessing Schenn's bonuses wouldn't be easy to reach. I'd like to see him get some AHL time anyways, unless he blows minds at camp.
From what I understand, the bonus cushion you are referring to does not apply to next year's CAP since it is the end of the CBA. That means Schenn's (and any player on an ELC) full CAP hit including bonuses counts towards the CAP next year regardless if he hits them or not.

Brad Richards ability to play wing, center and the point on the power play make him very useful for the Kings and very much worth of an overpayment in my opinion.

It ain't gonna happen though. It really is pointless to talk about but it will be fun watching everyone get worked up as July 1st approaches again. For the sake of everyone's sanity, I hope he is signed July 1 regardless of where he ends up.

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Old
04-28-2011, 03:15 PM
  #358
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Maybe Gaborik back with the Wild, but not the Gaborik of now. Getting way to much money and non-stop injury problems.

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Old
04-28-2011, 04:00 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Doesn't Nashville still hold his rights if he comes back to the NHL?

That he does. According to the NHL he's still under contract with them and with all the other restrictions of RFA/UFA.

Have to trade from Nash then sign him. I think it's nearly 0 for all that to happen but god damn he'd be a actual upgrade. Guys in his prime and he's a hell of a player.

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04-28-2011, 04:09 PM
  #360
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Buddy - nice post.

I don't think any GM goes into negotiations without a plan or a limit (dollars, years, etc) except maybe for Sather. Yeah, Lombardi is probably more conservative than most GM's - more structured. So that's fair. I see where you're coming from, that it's time to throw the extra million at the right guy. And I agree - Richards is probably as good a player to do that with as any. For some reason, I think DL will do that with Richards. Really go for it. And I think Richards will still choose the Rangers. He's a Canadian guy, there'd be no doubt he's the number one star, original six, his original coach - pretty tempting.

But who knows, maybe he's smarter than that and he'll sign with the team that can take him to the top again - the Kings.

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Old
04-28-2011, 04:35 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
But who knows, maybe he's smarter than that and he'll sign with the team that can take him to the top again - the Kings.
I honestly think a lot of this playing for a traditionaly market, original 6 or canadian team hoopla is projected by fans in a lot of cases. I do think there are players that like playing in the east due to travel but Brad Richards re-signed to play in Tampa of all places when he didn't have to. He could have opted for free agency and left Tampa and from everything that has been reported from his camp is he would re-sign in Dallas if it weren't for the problems with ownership.

I believe that if DL wants him enough, he could make Brad Richards a King. I wonder if DL getting played by Kovalchuk's agent last year will have an impact on how he negotiates with Brad Richards?

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Old
04-28-2011, 04:43 PM
  #362
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I don't think Gaborick would last in this system playing in the WC. The guys history suggests he'd make it til Turkey day and be on the ir. No thanks.

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Old
04-28-2011, 04:52 PM
  #363
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I see DL making a deal rather than picking up any of FA's. TB or Florida with the same names always talked about are still propably DL targets. DL still has assets to use and I think this summer he'll deal some for front line help.

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Old
04-28-2011, 05:16 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
For some reason, I think DL will do that with Richards. Really go for it. And I think Richards will still choose the Rangers. He's a Canadian guy, there'd be no doubt he's the number one star, original six, his original coach - pretty tempting.
I also think DL will really go after him. I see Richards as having all the traits that DL thinks a King should have. He went pretty hard after Kovy, for sure, but not all out. He did go really hard after Hossa, we just got beat by a team that was much more ready to compete than we were. I feel that the Kings have shown they are very close to being contenders, and with a healthy Kopi and Richards, they would be expected to win a round or two minimum.

The thing with the NYR is they have been known to throw stupid money around. With money being equal, from his interviews I think Richards would pick LA. The Rangers are solid, but with the Kings back end the addition of Richards would make them a legitimate threat for the cup.

We just have to hope that Sather doesn't have a bout of insanity and offer $8M.

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04-28-2011, 05:36 PM
  #365
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$8 mil.... is any player worth that nowadays? In the "piling bodies in front of the net" modern era? So, 5 years for $40 million? Or 6 for $42m?

And still no pure sniper....

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Old
04-28-2011, 05:37 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I wonder if DL getting played by Kovalchuk's agent last year will have an impact on how he negotiates with Brad Richards?
Agents gonna play ya!

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Old
04-28-2011, 05:47 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
Richards does solve a few problems on the Kings. One, he improves the skill level, obviously. Two, he improves the hole at LW that Penner and Smyth have been unable to fill. Three, BR gives Kopitar the elite talent on his wing to elevate his game to the next level. Four, he can play the point on the dreadful powerplay. No assets lost makes a ton of sense. The problem is the 2 teams rumored to be after his services are notorious for over paying for talent. Sather is a crazy man with the Rangers money. They are rumored to be after Richards, then prepared to trade Gaborik and they have shown in the past they will send down big money contracts they can't fit under the cap like Redden. Brian Burke has Leafs money, they desperately need talent to get into the playoffs and he has also proven in the past he's willing to push the envelope to get his guy. Will Lombardi go all in in this high stakes game of poker? History says no f'in way.
He could also turn out to be the next big name UFA bust. He'll be 31 in a few days. The same age Drury was when he signed his contract. It also seems that forwards have inflated numbers when they play under Crawford.

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Old
04-28-2011, 06:14 PM
  #368
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To Phoenix: Stoll, Simmonds
To L.A.: Doan, Tikhonov

To Edmonton: Smyth
To L.A.: Cogliano

To Chicago: Hickey
To L.A.: Beach

L.A.'s lineup

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Brown-Loktionov-Doan
Clifford-Lewis-Richardson
Tikhonov-Cogliano-Parse
Westgarth

Doughty-Mitchell
Scuderi-Johnson
Greene-Martinez
Drewiske

Quick
Bernier

Flame away!

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Old
04-28-2011, 06:31 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Youngblood93 View Post
Biggest need for the Kings is Speed. They need more speed in that top 6.

Some questions to all Kings fans.

If the Kings sign Richards could you see Schenn dangled for a top line winger?

If Richards signs with NYR (many people think will happen) Would you look to deal for Gaborik? Could he be had for picks and prospects considering NYR would have to clear cap space?
I'd offer Smyth, Schenn & Hickey, to Dallas (reluctantly) for Lui Eriksson


Penner-kopitar-Williams
Eriksson-Richards-Moller
Brown-Stoll-Loktionov
Clifford-Lewis-Simmonds


oh and a reminder Smyth has a ridonkulous cap hit of like 6.25ish. But he will only need to be paid 4.something ish this last year of his contract. this does a couple of good things for the Dallas org. It helps keep payroll lower than the cap which then helps reach the cap floor while saving money.



CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Jamie Benn ($0.821m) / Mike Ribeiro ($5.000m) / Brenden Morrow ($4.100m)
Scott Glennie ($1.650m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.140m) / Ryan Smyth ($6.250m)
Krys Barch ($0.837m) / Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Adam Burish ($1.150m)
Toby Petersen ($0.775m) / Tom Wandell ($0.775m) / Tomas Vincour ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Stephane Robidas ($3.300m) / Trevor Daley ($3.300m)
Alex Goligoski ($1.833m) / Nicklas Grossman ($1.625m)
Mark Fistric ($1.000m) / Thomas Hickey ($1.316m)

GOALTENDERS
Kari Lehtonen ($3.550m) / Andrew Raycroft ($0.650m)

REENTRY WAIVER LOSSES: Sean Avery ($1.937m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $46,761,667; BONUSES: $3,770,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $15,438,333

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Old
04-28-2011, 07:03 PM
  #370
The Hegemony Consul
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
To Phoenix: Stoll, Simmonds
To L.A.: Doan, Tikhonov

To Edmonton: Smyth
To L.A.: Cogliano

To Chicago: Hickey
To L.A.: Beach
No flames here; I'd do #2 in a nano-second, if Smyth himself (and, of course, the Oilers) would bite. #3: I don't know anything about Beach, but I'm not averse to trading Hickey. What is the story with Beach? #1 is good (more like, "really good") value for the Kings, but just a hunch, I have this feeling Simmonds will rebound this year, and I really think the Kings would miss Stoll's faceoff ability...

Incidentally, has it ever been conclusively demonstrated either way whether Smyth's trade-restriction clause is still in-effect?

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Old
04-28-2011, 07:44 PM
  #371
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I read that Richards is single. Maybe Matt "Dancing Boy" Barry can be his casting couch coach. Hello Hollywood.

Then we could complain about him being distracted and tired all the time.

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Old
04-28-2011, 07:51 PM
  #372
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I'd definitely deal Smyth, could probably get a mid round pick for him. Problem is I don't see a lot of teams biting because of the salary.

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Old
04-28-2011, 08:03 PM
  #373
Duc620
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I'm not sure we need to be tossing Smyth to the side of the road when you consider how good he was in the playoffs. He was great on the cycle and below the dots. He can still school guys. Kids have something to learn from him... especially about puck possession. He's a very unique player.

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Old
04-28-2011, 08:11 PM
  #374
Nose of Sutter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
To Phoenix: Stoll, Simmonds
To L.A.: Doan, Tikhonov

To Edmonton: Smyth
To L.A.: Cogliano

To Chicago: Hickey
To L.A.: Beach

L.A.'s lineup

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Brown-Loktionov-Doan
Clifford-Lewis-Richardson
Tikhonov-Cogliano-Parse
Westgarth

Doughty-Mitchell
Scuderi-Johnson
Greene-Martinez
Drewiske

Quick
Bernier

Flame away!
I don't know why but i'm very reluctant to trade away Simmonds, Just seems like how he's been coming along (even with this season he had) and I think we'd miss his presence on the ice

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Old
04-28-2011, 08:17 PM
  #375
Moses Doughty
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Originally Posted by SimmondsSensation View Post
I don't know why but i'm very reluctant to trade away Simmonds, Just seems like how he's been coming along (even with this season he had) and I think we'd miss his presence on the ice
Its ok cause only the Edmonton deal is remotely realistic

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