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Zach Bogosian to the Leafs

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Old
04-28-2011, 01:45 PM
  #101
mydnyte
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
His ceiling is lower than Bogo and Kulemin hasnt proven yet to be a CONSISTENT year in year out, goal scoring threat.
this was Kulemin's 3rd season and he's improved each season ...how is that NOT constancy for his 3rd season?

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04-28-2011, 01:45 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by vezna View Post
and what has Bogo proven? Kulie scored 30 goals this year and developed into a very good two way player and yet he's the one who has to prove something to mr. "-27" bogosian

luke schenn scored more points than bogo this season while getting half the PP time

schenn is an inch shorter but 15 lbs heavier. i dont see how bogo is "bigger, stronger" this is too funny
Its quite obvious in that Bogo's first two seasons he was averaging at 10G pace, how many defense do that in their teen years? Why has his production dropped? Two words. Enstrom, Byfuglien. What was Kulemin doing when he was 19-20? He wasn't even competing for a chance at the prestigious Toronto Marlies squad. Just because he is in Atlanta, doesn't mean he has proven nothing. Kulemin is near 25 and finally hitting a 30G plateau, you lack foresight by your logic Clarke Macarthur should be getting a multi year 4M per contract extension based on point totals.

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04-28-2011, 01:53 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
this was Kulemin's 3rd season and he's improved each season ...how is that NOT constancy for his 3rd season?
Yes he has improved each year. That doesn't mean he is going to automatically improve next season, could regress. I said consistently be a 30 goal scoring threat.

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04-28-2011, 01:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Its quite obvious in that Bogo's first two seasons he was averaging at 10G pace, how many defense do that in their teen years? Why has his production dropped? Two words. Enstrom, Byfuglien. What was Kulemin doing when he was 19-20? He wasn't even competing for a chance at the prestigious Toronto Marlies squad. Just because he is in Atlanta, doesn't mean he has proven nothing. Kulemin is near 25 and finally hitting a 30G plateau, you lack foresight by your logic Clarke Macarthur should be getting a multi year 4M per contract extension based on point totals.
Your right, he wasn't competing for the Marlies job. He was just putting up an MVP season in the Russian Super League as a 21 year old. Other players who have done that at such a young age include Pavel Datsyuk and Andrei Markov.

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04-28-2011, 01:59 PM
  #105
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From a Leafs perspective, I would not touch Bogo with a 30 foot poll, not because he is a bad player but because the price to get him will in all liklihood be far more than what he will be worth to the Leaf's roster. The Leafs appear to be heading in the right direction but a trade for Bogo could throw a monkey wrench into the whole plan.

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04-28-2011, 02:01 PM
  #106
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You can stop arguing with one another because we aren't trading Bogo.

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04-28-2011, 02:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Your right, he wasn't competing for the Marlies job. He was just putting up an MVP season in the Russian Super League as a 21 year old. Other players who have done that at such a young age include Pavel Datsyuk and Andrei Markov.
Are you really comparing the NHL to the Russian Super League and Nikolai Kulemin to Pavel Datsyuk?

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04-28-2011, 02:22 PM
  #108
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I have a question for Leafs fans, and the OP specifically. Do you not think that the Leafs should be going hard for help up front, rather than bringing in yet another defenseman? Lupul isn't enough help, the Leafs still need more top six help. Perhaps that should be the focus, rather than going after another high profile d-man.

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04-28-2011, 02:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Its quite obvious in that Bogo's first two seasons he was averaging at 10G pace, how many defense do that in their teen years? Why has his production dropped? Two words. Enstrom, Byfuglien. What was Kulemin doing when he was 19-20? He wasn't even competing for a chance at the prestigious Toronto Marlies squad. Just because he is in Atlanta, doesn't mean he has proven nothing. Kulemin is near 25 and finally hitting a 30G plateau, you lack foresight by your logic Clarke Macarthur should be getting a multi year 4M per contract extension based on point totals.
Your right Kuli was not competing for a Marlies job at the age of 20-21 years he was playing in the RSL (which at the time was the second best hockey league only behind the NHL) and won the MVP award there.

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04-28-2011, 02:27 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I have a question for Leafs fans, and the OP specifically. Do you not think that the Leafs should be going hard for help up front, rather than bringing in yet another defenseman? Lupul isn't enough help, the Leafs still need more top six help. Perhaps that should be the focus, rather than going after another high profile d-man.
Essentially, yes, the focus should be on bolstering our top line. We still need a top 4 puck moving defenseman, but I would prefer to address that through FA, rather than trying to acquire someone like Bogosian who would cost an arm and a leg.

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04-28-2011, 02:28 PM
  #111
lebdafor norris
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I have a question for Leafs fans, and the OP specifically. Do you not think that the Leafs should be going hard for help up front, rather than bringing in yet another defenseman? Lupul isn't enough help, the Leafs still need more top six help. Perhaps that should be the focus, rather than going after another high profile d-man.
Yea your right the leafs primary need is a number 1 center, the only problem is the leafs don't have enough expendable assets to get a stud number 1 center like Paul Stastny and at the same time the leafs still need a PMD to fill the hole that was left by Kaberle... but I would much rather go after players like Pitkanen and Erhoff in the free agency than spend a huge amount of assets trying to get Bogo.

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04-28-2011, 02:36 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Bogosian had an off season last year while Schenn had his best ...Schenn 2 seasons ago sucked for most of the season

Lets also not forget Scott Stevens was one heck of a goal scorer in earlier years ...high of 21 and was the main point getting d-man on his team for his first 12 seasons before he became a shutdown d-man

Bogosian can become like Stevens really was, Schenn cannot.
Schenn can become like 1995 and onward shutdown Stevens though.
Aside from not having his offensive capability, I will guarantee that neither one of these guys will be feared half as much as Scott Stevens. He's really one of a kind.

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04-28-2011, 02:49 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Are you really comparing the NHL to the Russian Super League and Nikolai Kulemin to Pavel Datsyuk?
Your original comment was referring to the fact that Kulemin "wasn't even competing for a chance at the prestigious Toronto Marlies squad", sarcasm obviously intended on your part. My point, which seems to have flown over your head, is that Kulemin wasn't just meandering about in some random league. He was was putting up very solid seasons in the RSL, one of the top leagues in Europe. At no point did I compare him to Datsyuk or any other player.

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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
Clearly only a few people are getting it. I'm done. Russian success does not always translate into the NHL. There are plenty of examples.
Of course, you could say that for any league or player. "OHL success doesn't necessarily translate into the NHL."

It is true that when Kulemin first came over, he struggled. Had some difficultly staying on the NHL roster at times, but as he got comfortable, his game picked up considerably. Since about December 2009/January 2010, Kulemin has been consistently playing very good hockey.

He scored 30 goals and put up 57 points last year. His success in the RSL has quite clearly translated over to the NHL, even if it took slightly longer then expected.

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04-28-2011, 04:05 PM
  #114
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I think Bogosian is actually getting underrated in this thread. Go figure.

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04-28-2011, 04:54 PM
  #115
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I think Bogosian is actually getting underrated in this thread. Go figure.
This thread is pretty much about Kulemin now I guess

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04-28-2011, 05:14 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Anton 2nd Pick View Post
See what I did there?

This is why Bogo to the Leafs will not work. Unless you offer something that will make them better now, they are better off keeping him.
Still do not understand why you would think That I think Atlanta should trade Bogo to Leafs from my post. I was just stating Kulemin Imo is the leafs best forward. With huge upside.

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04-28-2011, 07:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
Your right, he wasn't competing for the Marlies job. He was just putting up an MVP season in the Russian Super League as a 21 year old. Other players who have done that at such a young age include Pavel Datsyuk and Andrei Markov.
"Other players who have done this at such a young age" If you dont consider that a comparison I'm going to have to start teaching these leaf homers english.

Wasn't there supposed to be a thread about this guy named Bogosian?

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04-28-2011, 07:34 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
"Other players who have done this at such a young age" If you dont consider that a comparison I'm going to have to start teaching these leaf homers english.

Wasn't there supposed to be a thread about this guy named Bogosian?
Oh I see, Kulemin is the next Andrei Markov!

Seeing a comparison in that post is like seeing a comparison between Gretzky and Stamkos because they both won scoring titles at young ages.

Admit it, if I would have left the post without that tidbit at the end, you would have jumped on it. Your next post would be something to the effect of "Well, it isn't like RSL MVPs have ever accomplished anything." All I did was close a door before you could jump through it.

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04-28-2011, 07:46 PM
  #119
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Poor Lupul hes been traded so many times the last few years.

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04-28-2011, 08:22 PM
  #120
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Um, I wouldn't put Bogo's real value close to Schenn's right now. Luke Schenn was basically the Leafs best defenceman this year- and one of the youngest. He's still getting better, and he is a horse. Mostly positives for Luke the past couple years.

Bogo hasn't adjusted well to the NHL yet. He's had problems with his coach.. he's floundering too deep in the organizational depth.. he had another bad season. Really most aspects of his season and last are negative.

But, it's Bogo's potential value that teams will be trading for. That may or may not ever materialize.... so it would be crazy to trade Schenn, or give up a package involving Grabo or Aulie for him. Aulie brings so many intangibles to the table it's crazy. I'd be leery to let Aulie go period, he's one of the Leafs top prospects right now. Giving him, or breaking up the only good line the Leafs had (Grabo) would be a huge mistake. And then what happens if Bogo fails even more under the eye in Toronto? It sets Toronto back a few more years... not worth trading for Bogo right now, put your assets towards something needed- like a forward.

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04-28-2011, 08:55 PM
  #121
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Poor Lupul hes been traded so many times the last few years.
I don't think you'll find many Leaf fans that would actually want to trade Lupul. He's been fantastic with Kessel, and with a legit center they'll be a force (along with living up to their salaries).

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04-28-2011, 09:40 PM
  #122
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I don't care what anyone says, Bogosian is going to be a monster in the nhl. In four years Bogosian will be a 60+ point producing impact player. It's only the fans who would label this guy a bust at 20. Atlanta already turned down two first rounders for this guy because they know it

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04-28-2011, 10:16 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by atl thrasher344 View Post
What you offered for Bogosian was much closer to his value than Kulemin/Grabovski for Enstrom. That's like saying that Bryan Little is worth Shea Weber. That's not overpayment that's a gift.
Again, Grabovski is our only quality scoring center. That means he is worth significantly more to us and would require that much more in a trade. I never claimed he was worth Enstrom.

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04-28-2011, 10:39 PM
  #124
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Please stick to the topic at hand. No more trolling, flaming, baiting or changing the topic.

Thanks,

LR

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