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THATS IT, I AM CALLING IT NOW Van Riemsdyk...........

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Old
04-28-2011, 01:01 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by tytech View Post
Who said anything about Richards, Giroux, Timonen and/or Pronger. You are pulling stuff out of left field to try and justify your response.

It's no secret we need a goalie. Our team would be almost perfect if we had a bonafide number 1 goalie. We can't take on any salary and I'm simply saying that we can get a great goalie by trading a great player like Carter. With the emergence of JVR, we won't miss Carter as much.
So your alternative is to trade Carter for a 34 year-old (35 on July 2) pending free agent...All right then.

I mean if you're going to bring up unrealistically trade Carter, at least get back a younger, more valuable goalie.

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04-29-2011, 12:08 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
So your alternative is to trade Carter for a 34 year-old (35 on July 2) pending free agent...All right then.

I mean if you're going to bring up unrealistically trade Carter, at least get back a younger, more valuable goalie.
i do not like carter but I do not want him traded right now. fantastic wrist shot, big body, and a different skill set than JVR.

Bob can turn into something, the flyers have another young goalie who can be the future, and we have a pretty good back up.


the flyers need to get lucky with drafting a future big body stud dman, who scares the heck out of everyone, along with a future stud playmaking dman. i want some big time D prospects in teh system

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04-29-2011, 09:12 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tytech View Post
Who said anything about Richards, Giroux, Timonen and/or Pronger. You are pulling stuff out of left field to try and justify your response.

It's no secret we need a goalie. Our team would be almost perfect if we had a bonafide number 1 goalie. We can't take on any salary and I'm simply saying that we can get a great goalie by trading a great player like Carter. With the emergence of JVR, we won't miss Carter as much.
Actually, as much as I'd love to throw a legitimate number one goalie on the Flyers, I'd want a legitimate number one goalie behind THIS Flyers' team, not this team minus Carter.

It defeats the purpose if you significantly weaken the roster in order to add a goalie.

Once again, the impact of a skater on the game, particularly one as important as Carter, is immense compared to any goaltender regardless of talent.

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04-29-2011, 09:14 AM
  #54
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I'd rather use cap space for a goalie than Versteeg/Carle

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04-29-2011, 09:17 AM
  #55
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I'd rather use cap space for a goalie than Versteeg/Carle
Exactly what I'm hoping for, mostly the Versteeg part.

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04-29-2011, 10:00 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Actually, as much as I'd love to throw a legitimate number one goalie on the Flyers, I'd want a legitimate number one goalie behind THIS Flyers' team, not this team minus Carter.

It defeats the purpose if you significantly weaken the roster in order to add a goalie.

Once again, the impact of a skater on the game, particularly one as important as Carter, is immense compared to any goaltender regardless of talent.
This right here, is what's wrong with the flyers mentality. "The impact of a skater, particularily Carter, is immense compared to any goalie regardless of talent"??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????

Are you kidding? You'd rather have Carter than Miller, Carter than Luongo, Lundqvist, vokoun, kipper, Quick, ward, price, bryzgalov etc etc etc... (don't grab one or two goalies and say yes. You get my point)

That's insane. When has the mentality that goalies aren't that important going to fade? It's gotten us nowhere. Disappointment after diappointment. How many cups would we have if we had a Brodeur throughout the 1990's and 2000's?????

With JVR finally coming out and playing like a star, we now have a tradeable (yes valuable) asset to do something with Carter and finally get something concrete back there. Carter will be missed but the team would be a whole lot better with a real goalie back there.

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04-29-2011, 01:24 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
This right here, is what's wrong with the flyers mentality. "The impact of a skater, particularily Carter, is immense compared to any goalie regardless of talent"??????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
Are you kidding? You'd rather have Carter than Miller, Carter than Luongo, Lundqvist, vokoun, kipper, Quick, ward, price, bryzgalov etc etc etc... (don't grab one or two goalies and say yes. You get my point)
I'll grab all the goalies for you then.

Miller - yes
Luongo - yes
Lundqvist - yes
Vokoun - yes
Kiprusoff - yes
Quick - yes
Ward - yes
Price - yes
Bryzgalov - yes

I'll pretty much take every first line forward over any top 10 goalie any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
That's insane. When has the mentality that goalies aren't that important going to fade? It's gotten us nowhere. Disappointment after diappointment. How many cups would we have if we had a Brodeur throughout the 1990's and 2000's?????
The theory that goaltending is important has gotten everyone nowhere since at least the start of the post-lockout era.

In fact, you can't even really be sure how much of an impact goalies had in the dead puck era because it was called the dead puck era for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
With JVR finally coming out and playing like a star, we now have a tradeable (yes valuable) asset to do something with Carter and finally get something concrete back there. Carter will be missed but the team would be a whole lot better with a real goalie back there.
You want to trade our best EV forward just because JVR is turning into something legitimate for a goalie that's not going to get you any closer and may even cost you a deep playoff run because of your investment in him both in terms of roster players and salary space?

Nope. Versteeg? Sure. Carle? Sure. Carter? Hell no.

Once again, the impact of goaltenders is highly overrated.

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Old
04-29-2011, 01:37 PM
  #58
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Can't say I didn't predict this one.

More trust from Lavy = More Ice Time = Better Play = More PP Time = More overall production.

The guy just needs time to understand the game. His 2nd year at the U-18's he was dominate, his second year of high school at CBA he was dominate, his second playoffs he had a dominate first round.

Just because he went 2nd overall means he doesn't need time to develop.

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04-29-2011, 04:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Yep.



I'll grab all the goalies for you then.

Miller - yes
Luongo - yes
Lundqvist - yes
Vokoun - yes
Kiprusoff - yes
Quick - yes
Ward - yes
Price - yes
Bryzgalov - yes

I'll pretty much take every first line forward over any top 10 goalie any day.



The theory that goaltending is important has gotten everyone nowhere since at least the start of the post-lockout era.

In fact, you can't even really be sure how much of an impact goalies had in the dead puck era because it was called the dead puck era for a reason.



You want to trade our best EV forward just because JVR is turning into something legitimate for a goalie that's not going to get you any closer and may even cost you a deep playoff run because of your investment in him both in terms of roster players and salary space?

Nope. Versteeg? Sure. Carle? Sure. Carter? Hell no.

Once again, the impact of goaltenders is highly overrated.

Wow. I thank the hockey gods that you are a mere fan and not the general manager. Every team has at least a first line forward but only 10 teams have a real bonafide goalie.

I dare you to start a thread to see how many Flyer fans would trade Carter for the goalies listed above. I don't think you'd have much support.

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Old
04-29-2011, 04:10 PM
  #60
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I wouldn't trade Carter for any of those guys either. You don't need stunning, steal-every-game goaltending to succeed. You just need someone reliable, which is something Homer failed to acquire in the offseason.

edit: Actually I'd happily take Miller. Lundqvist has too much cap hit.

edit2: never mind. Miller's is also too high. It would end up costing us more than "just" Carter.

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Old
04-29-2011, 04:21 PM
  #61
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you gotta give to get. and its gotta be someone who consistently produces on both sides of the trade. ahem. ahem. carter. of course, im one of those idiots who think we would've won a cup with cujo not beezer. cant go by me. also, nobody's tradin awesome goalies away unless they got two. so we'd have to go with either vancouver's backup.(corey schneider is awesome btw) or maybe the kings are cool with givin us bernier. otherwise bobrovsky will do.


Last edited by funghoul: 04-29-2011 at 04:28 PM.
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04-29-2011, 04:48 PM
  #62
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I would not trade carter for a goalie. The days of high paid big name goalies being highly successful are over. Post lockout hockey has been about scoring and team systems, sure pre lockout a guy like brodeur could steal games because everyone could hug, hook, hold, grab, trap and it lead to 1-0, 2-1 games that the better goalie would usually win. That is over and that is why the top goalies in the league have done nothing, spend on a goalie and your team suffers.

Pick your poison.

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04-29-2011, 06:26 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Can't say I didn't predict this one.

More trust from Lavy = More Ice Time = Better Play = More PP Time = More overall production.

The guy just needs time to understand the game. His 2nd year at the U-18's he was dominate, his second year of high school at CBA he was dominate, his second playoffs he had a dominate first round.

Just because he went 2nd overall means he doesn't need time to develop.
exactly only his second year... also the big body guys are different than those who rely mostly on their skill...

sometimes it takes a bit for the big guy to realize they can use their big body with the NHL players.



on a side note... aww gags... dont be a concussion.

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04-29-2011, 07:18 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
I would not trade carter for a goalie. The days of high paid big name goalies being highly successful are over. Post lockout hockey has been about scoring and team systems, sure pre lockout a guy like brodeur could steal games because everyone could hug, hook, hold, grab, trap and it lead to 1-0, 2-1 games that the better goalie would usually win. That is over and that is why the top goalies in the league have done nothing, spend on a goalie and your team suffers.

Pick your poison.
i've rethought and think this is our last year to try and run and gun our way to a cup. we have more depth offensively than we've had since the 70's. we have what most people consider to be the best defense in the league when healthy. were maxed against the cap.(and you cant cry about shelleys contract takin money away from anything gamebreaking). If we win a cup this year, than our plan worked in the end. if not, screw this .....we need to get an elite goalie by significant trade somehow. and it is a matter of desire, cause we get everything else we want. and if not carter, than who would warrant a snif at a real goalie that we could in reality live without. (we cant live without giroux or briere, maybe richards?)

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04-30-2011, 05:47 AM
  #65
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A reliable goaltender will get the job done. It's the teams fault after that. What i would give for a dwayne roloson


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04-30-2011, 10:15 AM
  #66
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A reliable goaltender will get the job done. It's the teams fault after that. What i would give for a dwayne rolloson
Roloson is that dude. Love Dwayne Roloson's game.

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04-30-2011, 01:07 PM
  #67
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While a top notch goalie is not the end-all, be-all in the NHL and guarantees you playoff success (see Luongo over his ENTIRE career and Miller this year) I WOULD trade Carter for Miller in a heart beat. Miller is by far the best in the world in my eyes. He's the only goaltender that I think can truly steal any given series against any team out there. I DON"T however think he's good enough to steal the Sabres way all the way to raising the cup.

If the playoffs last year and even more so this year have shown us it's that Jeff Carter actually IS expendable. We CAN have playoff success and outstanding offense even without him. Do I WANT to trade him, MO. Do I think he'll be traded, not a snowballs chance in hell. however, to say that trading him would create this chasm in our offense that would completely destroy this team and make us not even a playoff team in the manner that Chris is implying is just ludicrous.

With how well Mezz has grown this year I think he could easily replace Carle amking him expendable. however, I doubt we will move any of Carle, Coburn or Mezz simply because both timonen and Pronger are getting long in the tooth and with that the likelyhood of one or both being injured at some point during the season gets more prevolent. For that reason alone, I think we will keep our 3 younger dmen seeing how we really don't have anyone else who can play in the top 4 if one of our vets gets hurt.

I don't see us trading Versteeg. I'm kind of so-so on him. He's not as good as I was hoping but he's solid defensively enough and I think he works well on Richards line as a shut-down forward with offensive ability. With the other offensive ower we have on this team, we really don't NEED Versteeg to be great offensively. He's versitile enough that he CAN play on one of the scoring lines if we have injuries but with the forwards we have now, I think he's best used with Richards. I just don't know if I like his price tag to play that kind of role.

I honestly think that Hartnell is the odd man out this off-season. With JVR emerging and Hartnell struggling again this season, I think he's the most expendable at this point in time. Hartnell just isn't that effective in front of the net any more.

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04-30-2011, 01:30 PM
  #68
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No way Hartnell is gone in the off-season....

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04-30-2011, 01:34 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Orangecrush18 View Post
I would not trade carter for a goalie. The days of high paid big name goalies being highly successful are over. Post lockout hockey has been about scoring and team systems, sure pre lockout a guy like brodeur could steal games because everyone could hug, hook, hold, grab, trap and it lead to 1-0, 2-1 games that the better goalie would usually win. That is over and that is why the top goalies in the league have done nothing, spend on a goalie and your team suffers.

Pick your poison.
If it wasn't for Miller then Buffalo would likely be picking in the top 10 every year. their team is pretty bad but Miller alone makes them competative every single night. He was a gnats ass away from ousting us when we completely dominated them almost every minute of all 7 games. We SHOULD have swept that series but Miller flat out stole them 2 games 1-0.

If we could trade say Hartnell, Carle + Bobrovski, free up 9.4 mil, add in the 2 mil the cap will raise, Bryzgalov for say 5.5 mil, that would still leave about 7 mil to resign Leino, Powe, Carcillo, Nodl, a backup goalie and 2 bottom pairing dmen. I just don't think that is a bad scenario. Bryz shouldn't command any HUGE cap hit so why should we trade Carter for a goalie when we can simply go out and sign a top end guy for nothing but the cap space??? We may not get a lot for Carle and Hartnell but we'd at least get something for them and then we have our top notch goalie AND keep our top end core players. Talk about having your cake and eating it too. I'd be VERY happy with this scenario.

IMO, the only 2 things we should look to trade ANYBODY from the current roster for is 1) higher priced, less significant pieces (ie Hartnell and Carle) to make cap space to sign a top end goalie, and 2) trading something significant (Carter, JVR or Giroux if for some stupid reason we feel we have too much offense) for a future franchise dman because honestly, we don't have a future #1 dman in the making anywhere in the organization and within 3 years we are going to need one.

Hell, if we could trade Hartnell + Carle + 2012 1st to Atl for Bogosian then I'd be a happy man but I don't see that happening. We might have to move Versteeg to be able to afford Bryz but I'd probably do it.

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Old
04-30-2011, 08:28 PM
  #70
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Honestly, I think anyone who says
they'd not trade Jeff Carter for Ryan
Miller isn't being truthful.

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04-30-2011, 08:40 PM
  #71
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The thinking after the lockout might have changed, however, out of the four goaltenders who've won the cup since, I'd say only Osgood isn't a bona-fide #1 and Niemi is still young. So 50% of the teams who've won the cup have an undisputed #1.

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04-30-2011, 11:31 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
i've rethought and think this is our last year to try and run and gun our way to a cup. we have more depth offensively than we've had since the 70's. we have what most people consider to be the best defense in the league when healthy. were maxed against the cap.(and you cant cry about shelleys contract takin money away from anything gamebreaking). If we win a cup this year, than our plan worked in the end. if not, screw this .....we need to get an elite goalie by significant trade somehow. and it is a matter of desire, cause we get everything else we want. and if not carter, than who would warrant a snif at a real goalie that we could in reality live without. (we cant live without giroux or briere, maybe richards?)
Just remember what was traded for Halak last offseason. I think the price of goalies is low at the moment. Of course, MTl had to get rid of one of them. A team like Buffalo has no reason to trade Miller.

The Flyers need to focus on a UFA or a team that is in a position to need to trade one of their goalies.

Plus, I also agree with those who have stated that you don't need excellent goaltending to win in the playoffs, you just need a consistently decent one.

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05-02-2011, 08:08 PM
  #73
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this kid is all over the puck tonight .. stepping it up

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05-02-2011, 08:53 PM
  #74
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It'd be cool if JVR showed up tonight...

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05-02-2011, 09:16 PM
  #75
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Man, next to the definition of domination, is a picture of JVR.

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