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Martin and Gauthier Press Conference on Now

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Old
04-29-2011, 10:34 AM
  #126
gusfring
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
His opinions are crap. He provides no insight and is a whiner.

People here don't agree with everything management does and still provide much more insight without sounding like bitter whiney babies like Bert. Whitesnake, Ohashi, E=Ch, MathMan. They dont always agree, but they provide well structured arguments as to why they don't and don't whine in the process. These posters are also highly informative.

When I read bert I feel like I get dumber.
Be honest - you didn't like the article because it had a negative slant.

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04-29-2011, 10:38 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by skule123 View Post
I'm surprised that nugget was buried inside a long article about something else entirely - maybe it's Hickey's (well-educated) conjecture? Seems like something that would have gotten its own headline.
Still didn't say anything positive about Price and how good of a decision the Habs made last summer

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04-29-2011, 11:08 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
bert raymond's not drinking the kool-aid. i'm not a raymond fan but he basically says that at some point molson won't accept just making the playoffs..also said Gauthier can feed us what he wants, but habs aren't built to win 4 rounds
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/318914.html
True, I saw that this morning. I guess I'm just as dumb as Raymond.

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Hey Habsterix how is Penner doing in LA
How would he have done in Montreal? How did Montreal do without him? Assume all you want, there is no way of knowing. I still stand by what I've said.

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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Better yet. Ask Asterix why he disappeared when Andrei was on his game for the last like 25 games of the season. I guess like Gauthier, Asterix blows a lot of "hot air"
When you want to discuss in a mature way, I'll address your concerns. In the mean time, I'll stay out of the childish accusations.

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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Can you point me to his article that mentioned Eller is a nobody? Also where Gauthier is an idiot?

He's paid for opinions, he isn't paid to agree with everything the organization does, like people do around here.

He's allowed to be proven wrong. It's not a crime.

The question from RDS was: who do you consider to be the 3-4 young cornestones of the franchise? He answered with those 4 names.
Exactly. If it goes against the grain, it's very unpopular. So easy to be a sheep. Not as easy to say what you see.

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04-29-2011, 11:50 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
bert raymond's not drinking the kool-aid.
Pierre Gauthier is a much better hockey analyst than Bertrand Raymond; especially, a much better in-depth guy. That's why each feels the way they do right now.

I'm charitably assuming Raymond is writing what he really feels, and not what he thinks his readers want to read. Keep in mind -- this is Bertrand "Bergeron is as good as Wisnievski and costs less" Raymond.

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Exactly. If it goes against the grain, it's very unpopular. So easy to be a sheep. Not as easy to say what you see.
When did "we suck and we need more size" become the unpopular opinion? It's only been harped on for ten years.

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Old
04-29-2011, 11:55 AM
  #130
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OK so Muller to the Stars? I guess it's more likely than Ottawa as he played there 4 seasons.

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2011/4/...ays-stars-will

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Old
04-29-2011, 11:58 AM
  #131
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OK so Muller to the Stars? I guess it's more likely than Ottawa as he played there 4 seasons.

http://www.defendingbigd.com/2011/4/...ays-stars-will
Do we get compensation if he is let go? Maybe the rights to Brad Richards

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04-29-2011, 11:58 AM
  #132
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If you try to read between the line in this we say nothing press conference

-Markov will be sign
-they will bring scoring depth this summer
-Hamrlik is gone
-Gomez might not be back next year
-They will try to bring Emelin to NA

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04-29-2011, 12:50 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Be honest - you didn't like the article because it had a negative slant.
I didn't like the article because Betrand is stupid.

I don't care about negatives. There are a few things I didn't like this season from Gauthier. One was trading Lapierre(but rumors are Lapierre asked for a trade), I didn't like the O'byrne trade much and I was disappointed when we didn't pick up Strum off of waivers for free when we had the chance.

The reason why I don't like Raymond is because he talks nothing into context ever and just complains about everything regardless of the greater picture. For God sakes this is the same man that said MAB is as good as Wisniewski if not better. He even complained about the Wisniewski trade which one of Gauthier's best so far.

Why I don't like the article is for the following:

Gauthier inherted the team a year and 2 months ago and had little cap space to work with. Moreover, he had a crap load of injuries and two very big injuries to very significant players. He spent an entire year bandaging up a team. But then you'll say why even bandage it up, we should have just tanked and get a higher draft pick. We were in third place for a good part of the first half and 5th for a good portion as well. Why the hell would they just give up at that point...no team in that position ever does that.

Fact is, we have very little to evaluate Gauthier on this season. His true test comes this summer where he has 30 million dollars to spend to re-work the backend. I'll reserve my judgement until then and not assume anything before hand.

The team improved it's record upon last year run with almost a similar core. It trended upwards(despite the significant injuries) and not backwards.

Also what he doesn't get credit for is the moves he doesn't make. Everyone whined when Gauthier didn't re-sign Moore at 1.1 million for two years. Re-signing Moore would have not opened any spots up for Desharnais and Eller to show us what they can do at the pro-level. And guess what? Now everyone is putting them as a part of our core.

There's a difference between being sheep and constant whining. I'm neither. On a board full of negatives, I like to point out the positives to show that it isn't all doom and gloom, but in no way do I agree with everything. I just don't whine about the things I don't agree on constantly.

As for Asterix. I'm glad you still stand by Penner. Bad contract for another year and we would have had to given up too much(the man produces at almsot the same rate at Andrei, provides less intagibles, but gets paid 1 million more). Trades like Penner is what hurts teams, it doesn't ameliorate them. Had we traded for Penner we'd be down a 17th overall pick and probably Tinordi for a player who is hardly any better than a player you dislike(Andrei Kostitsyn, who btw had just as good of a season as your love-child).

I like the direction the team is headed and I think we have a pretty good core for a team that, aside from Price, hasn't had many draft picks. Eller, Plekanec, Cammalleri, Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Gorges and hopefully Markov is a pretty good core to build upon. We're trending upwards rather than the opposite direction and our record this year proved it. Hell with significant injuries to key players we were as good if not as some points better than the Boston Bruins, who btw everyone thinks is a superior team to ours with a superior GM. A GM so good that he traded a PMD for Horton and then spent the entire year trying to get one back and in doing so, he wasted a 1st round pick and a good prospect for 3 months of a crappy Kaberle. Could you imagine Gauthier made a move like that. He'd be crusified.


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Old
04-29-2011, 01:02 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
If you try to read between the line in this we say nothing press conference

-Markov will be sign
-they will bring scoring depth this summer
-Hamrlik is gone
-Gomez might not be back next year
-They will try to bring Emelin to NA
I'm not too sure about the last two.

I think what he's said is that if the opportunity comes up, Gomez will be moved. He said that the cap is always a priority and always needs to be taken into account. What I understood from that is that he is saying he can't guarentee a trade(why would he, that would be stupid), but if he can trade him, he will.

I don't think Emelin will come over(at least from what he said).

I think Hamrlik is gone also, but I think Gill will be back.

As for Markov, the Habs want him back clearly, but it sounds like Markov wants security also, by that I mean term(length of contract). Which is normal for a player his age and his durability. A one year contract could be great, but it can also be horrible for the rest of his career. But they will try to bring him back it's clear. They'd be stupid not to. Gauthier actually explicityly said(one the only things he said without being all secretive) that they want Markov back.

Markov Gorges
Gill Subban
xxxx-xxxx

Spacek.

We have two spots to fill on D. And there are good enough D men to really define our team on D for the next couple of years.

Ericsson, Ehrhoff, Hejda, Pitkanen, Bieksa, Hannan. All would look good on our back end.

Spacek might not be moved, but doesn't mean he needs to play, especially when there are better options on D that would improve our team drastically in terms of defensively play, mobility, puck movement and speed on the back end.

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Old
04-29-2011, 01:13 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I'm not too sure about the last two.

I think what he's said is that if the opportunity comes up, Gomez will be moved. He said that the cap is always a priority and always needs to be taken into account. What I understood from that is that he is saying he can't guarentee a trade(why would he, that would be stupid), but if he can trade him, he will.

I don't think Emelin will come over(at least from what he said).

I think Hamrlik is gone also, but I think Gill will be back.

As for Markov, the Habs want him back clearly, but it sounds like Markov wants security also, by that I mean term(length of contract). Which is normal for a player his age and his durability. A one year contract could be great, but it can also be horrible for the rest of his career. But they will try to bring him back it's clear. They'd be stupid not to. Gauthier actually explicityly said(one the only things he said without being all secretive) that they want Markov back.

Markov Gorges
Gill Subban
xxxx-xxxx

Spacek.

We have two spots to fill on D. And there are good enough D men to really define our team on D for the next couple of years.

Ericsson, Ehrhoff, Hejda, Pitkanen, Bieksa, Hannan. All would look good on our back end.

Spacek might not be moved, but doesn't mean he needs to play, especially when there are better options on D that would improve our team drastically in terms of defensively play, mobility, puck movement and speed on the back end.
Markov I'm 100% sure he will be back Gauthier said Markov want to be back and we want him back. They will work something

I agree on Gomez

Emelin I think they will try to bring him over but in the same time Gauthier will never talk about it until the contract is sign but I will not be surprise to see him next year and it will be a great move if they can do it.

so if I take your defense

Markov-Gorges
Gill-Subban
xxxx-xxxx

Spacek

I think they can trade Spacek because he only have one year left in his contract.

so
Markov-Gorges
Gill-Subban
Emelin-xxxx

Weber

so it will be more easy for Gauthier to sign a UFA this way and he will have the cap space with no Spacek.

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Old
04-29-2011, 01:37 PM
  #136
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As for Asterix. I'm glad you still stand by Penner. Bad contract for another year and we would have had to given up too much(the man produces at almsot the same rate at Andrei, provides less intagibles, but gets paid 1 million more). Trades like Penner is what hurts teams, it doesn't ameliorate them. Had we traded for Penner we'd be down a 17th overall pick and probably Tinordi for a player who is hardly any better than a player you dislike(Andrei Kostitsyn, who btw had just as good of a season as your love-child).
Again, you're basing your opinion on assumptions. Facts are that there is no way to tell what kind of chemistry Penner would have had with some of our Top 6 players. Could be terrible, but it could also be excellent and that's my point. With Pacioretty going down, you'll have a very hard time convincing me that Penner wouldn't have been useful depth, especially for a playoffs' run where size was lacking. We've talked about overpayment. You believe it was, I don't. Agree to disagree on that as it's a matter of opinion. Kostitsyn has had more than his fair chances here in Montreal. We know what he can and cannot do. Can't say the same about Penner. You calling him my love-child simply shows that you're not paying attention to what I've been saying all along: Penner wasn't the perfect player to add to the team, he was the best player available out there at that point in time.

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04-29-2011, 01:48 PM
  #137
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Again, you're basing your opinion on assumptions. Facts are that there is no way to tell what kind of chemistry Penner would have had with some of our Top 6 players. Could be terrible, but it could also be excellent and that's my point. With Pacioretty going down, you'll have a very hard time convincing me that Penner wouldn't have been useful depth, especially for a playoffs' run where size was lacking. We've talked about overpayment. You believe it was, I don't. Agree to disagree on that as it's a matter of opinion. Kostitsyn has had more than his fair chances here in Montreal. We know what he can and cannot do. Can't say the same about Penner. You calling him my love-child simply shows that you're not paying attention to what I've been saying all along: Penner wasn't the perfect player to add to the team, he was the best player available out there at that point in time.
don't know but i don't think MTL has enough assets to give away a 1st and conditional and another 1st (tinordi, which was basically a 1st and a 2nd) for penner. i belive LAK has more assets then us, thus them being able to overpay for such a player and most likely out-bid all other teams interested in that player. im sure this has been said plenty of times, but still important to factor in when talking about Penner.

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04-29-2011, 01:53 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Again, you're basing your opinion on assumptions. Facts are that there is no way to tell what kind of chemistry Penner would have had with some of our Top 6 players. Could be terrible, but it could also be excellent and that's my point. With Pacioretty going down, you'll have a very hard time convincing me that Penner wouldn't have been useful depth, especially for a playoffs' run where size was lacking. We've talked about overpayment. You believe it was, I don't. Agree to disagree on that as it's a matter of opinion. Kostitsyn has had more than his fair chances here in Montreal. We know what he can and cannot do. Can't say the same about Penner. You calling him my love-child simply shows that you're not paying attention to what I've been saying all along: Penner wasn't the perfect player to add to the team, he was the best player available out there at that point in time.
That's the problem. Everyone is so desperate at the tradedeadline that they often look at just making trades for the sake rather than thinking long term. Habs weren't gonna win a cup this year. Just because Penner was the best player available, doesn't mean we should have tried to outbid LAs offer of a 1st, conditional 2nd a Teubert.

Gauthier missed the boat when he failed to pick up Sturm for free of waivers who would have been a much better fit for the team. He's a hard worker, a great two way player and has speed. And is UFA next year.

Picking up Penner would give us another inconsistent winger with work ethic issues. Add to that a not so great two-way game, which would have drove Martin nuts. To make things worse, he's signed for another year at 4.25 million to offer us the same things Andrei brings us. In fact Andrei brings more, he uses his size for effectively than Penner. Habs need all the cap space they can get, they can't afford to have more players being paid more than their worth. Penner is not a solution.

Martin's treatment of Pouliot and Andrei is enough of an indication that Penner would have been a terrible fit. Hell Murray complained about him in LA, calling out his poor work ethic.

Just because he was the best player available, doesn't mean he will fit. The best player was Sturm and we missed the boat. I'm still disappointed with that.

There was just too many things to take into account when trading for Penner that just made him a poor fit.

1. Sure he had the size, but he doesn't have the work ethic that Martin asks of his players. He brings in one positive, but it gets negated by a negative.
2. We would have had to outbid a 1st, conditional 2nd and Teubert to acquire him. Hardly worth trading all that for an inconsistent top 6 winger.
3. He's overpaid and signed for another year. The habs already have to be cap conscience. Penner doesn't help the situation he only worsens it by being yet another player being paid more than his worth.

It wasn't a good fit, even if Pacioretty went down. The assets to acquire him outweigh the benefits he'd provide us especially when we weren't even a cup contender.

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Old
04-29-2011, 01:54 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Again, you're basing your opinion on assumptions. Facts are that there is no way to tell what kind of chemistry Penner would have had with some of our Top 6 players. Could be terrible, but it could also be excellent and that's my point. With Pacioretty going down, you'll have a very hard time convincing me that Penner wouldn't have been useful depth, especially for a playoffs' run where size was lacking. We've talked about overpayment. You believe it was, I don't. Agree to disagree on that as it's a matter of opinion. Kostitsyn has had more than his fair chances here in Montreal. We know what he can and cannot do. Can't say the same about Penner. You calling him my love-child simply shows that you're not paying attention to what I've been saying all along: Penner wasn't the perfect player to add to the team, he was the best player available out there at that point in time.
Perhaps, but it definitely wasn't the time to give up those kinds of assets for the habs. Our prospect depth is the lowest it's been in a while, and penner's performance has been hilariously bad. His work ethic got called out and that's what many (not sure about you) called andrei k out for. In fact, i seem to remember work ethic being one of the main reasons some people wanted penner over andrei.

You can't honestly tell me that the way penner has performed hasn't impacted your opinion on the almost-trade at all.

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04-29-2011, 01:54 PM
  #140
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don't know but i don't think MTL has enough assets to give away a 1st and conditional and another 1st (tinordi, which was basically a 1st and a 2nd) for penner. i belive LAK has more assets then us, thus them being able to overpay for such a player and most likely out-bid all other teams interested in that player. im sure this has been said plenty of times, but still important to factor in when talking about Penner.
It's been debated to death at the deadline but I'd agree with your comment if he was scheduled to be a UFA at the end of the season. There is a price to pay for guys who have at least one more year left to their contract, as they are not rentals.

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04-29-2011, 01:57 PM
  #141
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You can't honestly tell me that the way penner has performed hasn't impacted your opinion on the almost-trade at all.
I can certainly tell you that as unless someone has a crystal ball to predict the way he would have fit in, complemented OUR team, under OUR system, there is no way to tell.

Thinking that he would have automatically performed the same way as he did in LA is elementary school logic...

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04-29-2011, 02:00 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I can certainly tell you that as unless someone has a crystal ball to predict the way he would have fit in, complemented OUR team, under OUR system, there is no way to tell.

Thinking that he would have automatically performed the same way as he did in LA is elementary school logic...
But those work ethic problems stem all the way back to his edmonton days under MacTavish, who like Murray and Martin demand a lot from their players in terms of effort. They won't magically go away. They never went away, they've been a problem his whole career.

Penner clashes with these types of coaches who expect strong two-way game from all their players.

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04-29-2011, 02:04 PM
  #143
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I can certainly tell you that as unless someone has a crystal ball to predict the way he would have fit in, complemented OUR team, under OUR system, there is no way to tell.

Thinking that he would have automatically performed the same way as he did in LA is elementary school logic...
But honestly the problem I always had with adding Penner to the team was the fact that he wasn't fitting in the system at all, plus a guy that has character/work ethic problems is probably the worse thing to have in Montreal. PLus that's exactly what Martin dislike, with him when work work you get at least some icetime, but if you won't...

And the price was just ridiculous, if it was something like a second round (say this summer for exemple) I would agree that it's worth it.

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04-29-2011, 02:06 PM
  #144
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BTW not only "franchise" is a French word but the English version comes from the old french language.

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04-29-2011, 02:08 PM
  #145
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BTW not only "franchise" is a French word but the English version comes from the old french language.
I always wondered what your avatar was. It looks like the punch-clock at my old job.

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04-29-2011, 02:13 PM
  #146
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I always wondered what your avatar was. It looks like the punch-clock at my old job.
It's an old computer called Zx81
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81

I had one of those...now you know I'm old

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04-29-2011, 02:14 PM
  #147
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i don't think his work ethic would of been such a problem, since anyways the habs were in the mix of teams interested in him, if i remember correctly? but i think the number 1 issue would/was asset management, which seems to me at least, is the number 1 priority when this current management is making any sort of moves.
Looking at past trade deadline moves, most trades that required some kind of overpayment were done by either teams who were stocked up on assets (boston and LA this year for example) or desperate teams who need to promote their product through the PO's (Atlanta, that year they picked up Tkatchuk comes to mind). Unless habs have too much assets, i don't think we will see habs ever make a trade comparable to the Penner trade.

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04-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #148
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I really hope that we don't have to wait until July 1st to get some news on Markov/Gorges/etc regarding their contracts. Hopefully they decide a route to go, stick to it and build off of it as soon as possible.

If they intend on keeping Markov & Wisniewski (Gorges is less of a problem because of his RFA-status) then get working on it and get it done. Certain policies of this club I don't understand, not re-signing players during the season is one of them.

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04-29-2011, 03:50 PM
  #149
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I'm not too sure about the last two.

I think what he's said is that if the opportunity comes up, Gomez will be moved. He said that the cap is always a priority and always needs to be taken into account. What I understood from that is that he is saying he can't guarentee a trade(why would he, that would be stupid), but if he can trade him, he will.

I don't think Emelin will come over(at least from what he said).

I think Hamrlik is gone also, but I think Gill will be back.

As for Markov, the Habs want him back clearly, but it sounds like Markov wants security also, by that I mean term(length of contract). Which is normal for a player his age and his durability. A one year contract could be great, but it can also be horrible for the rest of his career. But they will try to bring him back it's clear. They'd be stupid not to. Gauthier actually explicityly said(one the only things he said without being all secretive) that they want Markov back.

Markov Gorges
Gill Subban
xxxx-xxxx

Spacek.

We have two spots to fill on D. And there are good enough D men to really define our team on D for the next couple of years.

Ericsson, Ehrhoff, Hejda, Pitkanen, Bieksa, Hannan. All would look good on our back end.

Spacek might not be moved, but doesn't mean he needs to play, especially when there are better options on D that would improve our team drastically in terms of defensively play, mobility, puck movement and speed on the back end.
I don't know about you but I'm perfectly fine with Weber in my top-6.

I'd prefer something like;

Markov - Wisniewski
Hannan/Brewer/Hejda/Ericsson - Subban
Gorges - Weber
whoever (Picard, Mara, don't really care)

I like Gill. And Hamrlik too. But I'd prefer Weber develop (he looked awesome in limited time in the playoffs - again). And I'd rather upgrade on our defensive D position with a Brewer, Hejda, Ericsson or Hannan.

I'd also take a look at Ehrhoff is Wiz doesn't sign.

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04-29-2011, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I don't know about you but I'm perfectly fine with Weber in my top-6.

I'd prefer something like;

Markov - Wisniewski
Hannan/Brewer/Hejda/Ericsson - Subban
Gorges - Weber
whoever (Picard, Mara, don't really care)

I like Gill. And Hamrlik too. But I'd prefer Weber develop (he looked awesome in limited time in the playoffs - again). And I'd rather upgrade on our defensive D position with a Brewer, Hejda, Ericsson or Hannan.

I'd also take a look at Ehrhoff is Wiz doesn't sign.
Agreed on all counts Nate, we share a man-crush for once. Weber for the win!

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