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2011 NHL Entry Draft/Other Prospects (All NON-RANGERS Prospect Discussion - Part 2)

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Old
04-29-2011, 05:09 PM
  #726
Anthony Mauro
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If they trade Del Zotto, it would be far too soon. He's only 20 years old.

If they did, then they need to go defenseman in the first round again to get an offensive defenseman.

Murphy would have to be the guy.
Any chance a package of Del Zotto and Anisimov gets you Ryan Murphy?

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04-29-2011, 05:14 PM
  #727
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Any chance a package of Del Zotto and Anisimov gets you Ryan Murphy?
That would be an awful trade.

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04-29-2011, 05:30 PM
  #728
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Ryan Murphy is a helluva player.

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04-29-2011, 06:26 PM
  #729
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That would be too much for Murphy.

Anisimov is progressing nicely as a two way center. We havent seen his full potential yet. He should get stronger as he matures. That will help him elevate his game. We already have seen his skill in flashes. He can fit a variety of roles.

The Rangers have been a little reluctant to trade out of their draft position the last few years. The last time they traded up in the first round was 2005 when they traded up to get Staal. They did reveal they were willing to trade up for Kreider, but they waited and got their guy.

How much more of a guarantee is Murphy compared with Del Zotto. Murphy may still be a bit of an adventure at times.

I still hope they go after a forward and keep both second round picks, Gordie Clark has been solid in the second round.

Del Zotto is not a finished product.

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04-29-2011, 08:09 PM
  #730
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keep in mind we played almost the entire year without mdz. hes not someone who even has a spot on the team next year. so hes certainly moveable for the right deal. and moving mdz does not mean we have to draft a dman first.

next year is the year for offensive dmen. this year, not so much.

artys not goin anywhere. torts likes and trusts him. that means alot.

i also believe we will be in the market come july 1 for an offensive dman who can skate the puck.

del zotto although still young, is fairly one dimensional. his defense is down right awful many nights and if hes not scoring on the pp, hes not doin much. people really overvalued him his first year. he looked good with those long passes and runnin the pp point 2 yrs ago, but his defense was a horror show.

im not sure hes a player torts can live with longterm.

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04-29-2011, 08:12 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
keep in mind we played almost the entire year without mdz. hes not someone who even has a spot on the team next year. so hes certainly moveable for the right deal. and moving mdz does not mean we have to draft a dman first.

next year is the year for offensive dmen. this year, not so much.

artys not goin anywhere. torts likes and trusts him. that means alot.

i also believe we will be in the market come july 1 for an offensive dman who can skate the puck.

del zotto although still young, is fairly one dimensional. his defense is down right awful many nights and if hes not scoring on the pp, hes not doin much. people really overvalued him his first year. he looked good with those long passes and runnin the pp point 2 yrs ago, but his defense was a horror show.

im not sure hes a player torts can live with longterm.
His defense was bad but it was no worse than Cam Fowler's this year. I think if you play him with talented guys he'll rack up the points. Pair him with a guy who can actually play defense, not Matt Gilroy, and I think he'll be better.

Keep in mind he's a "Torts kinda guy" who plays with grit. I think Torts would love him to be on the team if he can get the puck to the skilled guys again and not have his pairing be responsible for most goals against.

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04-29-2011, 08:32 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
His defense was bad but it was no worse than Cam Fowler's this year. I think if you play him with talented guys he'll rack up the points. Pair him with a guy who can actually play defense, not Matt Gilroy, and I think he'll be better.

Keep in mind he's a "Torts kinda guy" who plays with grit. I think Torts would love him to be on the team if he can get the puck to the skilled guys again and not have his pairing be responsible for most goals against.
This Del Zotto hate is really astonishing.

With Staal and McDonagh securing the left spot on the top 2 pairs of our even strength units, we don't need need to rely on Del Zotto for big even strength minutes. That was not the case early in the season -- he started this season as one of our top-4 defenseman.

Del Zotto started this season playing an insane amount of minutes for his age/experience (against Buffalo in the first game: Staal had 23:31, Girardi 22:51, Del Zotto 22:03). By game 4, Del Zotto was playing 25:48 (this was not an overtime game). And it wasn't an anomaly, in game 5 he played 25:47.

If we use Del Zotto as a 3rd pairing even strength defenseman with 1st unit PP times, we have a very valuable asset. Talking about giving up on him and trading him makes me .

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04-29-2011, 08:48 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
This Del Zotto hate is really astonishing.

With Staal and McDonagh securing the left spot on the top 2 pairs of our even strength units, we don't need need to rely on Del Zotto for big even strength minutes. That was not the case early in the season -- he started this season as one of our top-4 defenseman.

Del Zotto started this season playing an insane amount of minutes for his age/experience (against Buffalo in the first game: Staal had 23:31, Girardi 22:51, Del Zotto 22:03). By game 4, Del Zotto was playing 25:48 (this was not an overtime game). And it wasn't an anomaly, in game 5 he played 25:47.

If we use Del Zotto as a 3rd pairing even strength defenseman with 1st unit PP times, we have a very valuable asset. Talking about giving up on him and trading him makes me .


Would like to see MDZ paired with Sauer next season, just not sure who should/could be brought in to partner McD

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04-29-2011, 09:15 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
This Del Zotto hate is really astonishing.

With Staal and McDonagh securing the left spot on the top 2 pairs of our even strength units, we don't need need to rely on Del Zotto for big even strength minutes. That was not the case early in the season -- he started this season as one of our top-4 defenseman.

Del Zotto started this season playing an insane amount of minutes for his age/experience (against Buffalo in the first game: Staal had 23:31, Girardi 22:51, Del Zotto 22:03). By game 4, Del Zotto was playing 25:48 (this was not an overtime game). And it wasn't an anomaly, in game 5 he played 25:47.

If we use Del Zotto as a 3rd pairing even strength defenseman with 1st unit PP times, we have a very valuable asset. Talking about giving up on him and trading him makes me .
I also thought his last game before being sent down (against Carolina) was his best in awhile and he turned it around a little.

I think he'll be fine.

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Old
04-29-2011, 09:22 PM
  #735
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I don't enjoy the Del Zotto hate, either.

The kid needs time to develop. But he has a ton of skill that hou just do not give up on in a 20 year old.

Defense is the hardest position in hockey to learn. There's endless amounts of nuances to learn and your mistakes are more glaring being the last line of defense before the goaltender.

He's very young.

He will be fine.

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04-30-2011, 10:13 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Any chance a package of Del Zotto and Anisimov gets you Ryan Murphy?
Thats too much for Murphy but I would do one of those and my first for Murphy.

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04-30-2011, 01:03 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Steven Mastrosimone View Post
That would be an awful trade.
If you're overvaluing your players

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Old
04-30-2011, 01:07 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
If you're overvaluing your players
And it would be good trade if you overvalue an 18 year old prospect who has never played a game in the pro's.

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04-30-2011, 01:09 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
If you're overvaluing your players
No, that's too much to give up for Ryan Murphy.
He's a giant question mark, you're giving up a young PMD who has put up almost 40 pts in the NHL already, and a young Center who's point totals are progressing nicely who should shape up to be a good #2 that's very defensively responsible.

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04-30-2011, 07:51 PM
  #740
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Mock draft to #15

1. The Edmonton Oilers trade # 1 pick to Colorado for # 2 + 11. The Colorado Avalanche then select C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins from the Red Deer Rebels of the WHL.
2. The Edmonton Oilers then select D Adam Larsson from Skellefteć of the SEL.
3. The Florida Panthers select LW Gabriel Landeskog from the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL..
4. The New Jersey Devils select D Dougie Hamilton from the Niagara Icedogs of the OHL.
5. The New York Islanders select C Sean Couturier from the Drummondville Voltageurs of the QMJHL
6. The Ottawa Senators select C Jonathan Huberdeau from the St. John Sea Dogs of the QMJHL.
7. The Atlanta Thrashers select C Ryan Strome from the Niagara Icedogs of the OHL.
8. The Columbus Blue Jackets select D Ryan Murphy from the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL.
9. The Boston Bruins (from Toronto) select D Jamieson Oleksiak from Northeastern University.
10. The Minnesota Wild select D Duncan Siemens from the Saskatoon Blades of the WHL.
11. The Edmonton Oilers (from Colorado) select C Mark McNeil from the Prince Albert Raiders of the WHL.
12. The Carolina Hurricanes select LW Sven Baertschi from the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL.
13. The Calgary Flames select LW Brandon Saad from The Siginaw Spirit of the OHL.
14. The Dallas Stars select D Nathan Beaulieu from the Saint John Sea Dogs of the QMJHL.

15. The New York Rangers then can select one of:
Looks good to me….

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Old
04-30-2011, 07:54 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
1. The Edmonton Oilers trade # 1 pick to Colorado for # 2 + # 9. The Colorado Avalanche then select C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins from the Red Deer Rebels of the WHL.
2. The Edmonton Oilers then select D Adam Larsson from Skellefteć of the SEL.
3. The Florida Panthers select LW Gabriel Landeskog from the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL..
4. The New Jersey Devils select D Dougie Hamilton from the Niagara Icedogs of the OHL.
5. The New York Islanders select C Sean Couturier from the Drummondville Voltageurs of the QMJHL
6. The Ottawa Senators select C Jonathan Huberdeau from the St. John Sea Dogs of the QMJHL.
7. The Atlanta Thrashers select C Ryan Strome from the Niagara Icedogs of the OHL.
8. The Columbus Blue Jackets select D Ryan Murphy from the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL.
9. The Boston Bruins (from Toronto) select D Jamieson Oleksiak from Northeastern University.
10. The Minnesota Wild select D Duncan Siemens from the Saskatoon Blades of the WHL.
11. The Edmonton Oilers (from Colorado) select C Mark McNeil from the Prince Albert Raiders of the WHL.
12. The Carolina Hurricanes select LW Sven Baertschi from the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL.
13. The Calgary Flames select LW Brandon Saad from The Siginaw Spirit of the OHL.
14. The Dallas Stars select D Nathan Beaulieu from the Saint John Sea Dogs of the QMJHL.

15. The New York Rangers then can select one of:
Looks good to me….
I would be surprised if Saad goes that early. Either way I totally agree with your point. The Rangers will get a good player at 15.

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Old
04-30-2011, 07:56 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
And it would be good trade if you overvalue an 18 year old prospect who has never played a game in the pro's.
Both were never as highly touted as Murphy.

Del Zotto is a one-dimensional defenseman who has fallen out of favor with HC. If his one dimension isn't on point he's in the minors. Offensive D is the one position/need where we don't have the fortune to wait around or hope this guy gets his **** together.

Anisimov is a lanky, not highly skilled centerman who can't grind. That's a great two-way forward isn't it? One you'll be waiting years for to show up in the playoffs..

Personally, if Murphy is as good as they say he is those two are expendable to get him. If he's closer to Doughty than Sanguinetti you make that move. It's nice to have youth coming through, but they just aren't that good.

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04-30-2011, 08:00 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Both were never as highly touted as Murphy.

Del Zotto is a one-dimensional defenseman who has fallen out of favor with HC. If his one dimension isn't on point he's in the minors. Offensive D is the one position/need where we don't have the fortune to wait around or hope this guy gets his **** together.

Anisimov is a lanky, not highly skilled centerman who can't grind. That's a great two-way forward isn't it? One you'll be waiting years for to show up in the playoffs..

Personally, if Murphy is as good as they say he is those two are expendable to get him. If he's closer to Doughty than Sanguinetti you make that move. It's nice to have youth coming through, but they just aren't that good.


You act as if Del Zotto is taking forever to play well, and he's 20 years old. He's slightly older than Murphy, yet has already had nearly 40 points at the NHL level.

And we just trade Anisimov because he "doesn't grind"? He has skill, something most on this this don't have. 40 points as a 22 year old sophomore, excellent defensively, let's just trade him for some random top-10 prospect.

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04-30-2011, 08:02 PM
  #744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Both were never as highly touted as Murphy.

Del Zotto is a one-dimensional defenseman who has fallen out of favor with HC. If his one dimension isn't on point he's in the minors. Offensive D is the one position/need where we don't have the fortune to wait around or hope this guy gets his **** together.

Anisimov is a lanky, not highly skilled centerman who can't grind. That's a great two-way forward isn't it? One you'll be waiting years for to show up in the playoffs..

Personally, if Murphy is as good as they say he is those two are expendable to get him. If he's closer to Doughty than Sanguinetti you make that move. It's nice to have youth coming through, but they just aren't that good.
Murphy is not close to Doughty though. Doughty is a generational talent.

Murphy has his problems in the defensive end as well. If they could move up to grab him I would be okay with it. He is a very good player. However, he is not worth moving a 22 year old #2 center who had 44 points (a career high) with no history of any major injuries and who plays a VERY solid 2-way game.

I know Anisimov had a bad series in the playoffs, but forgetting his entire season is a knee-jerk reaction. Same goes for MDZ and his play for about 20 games before his demotion. Torts is not down on him, he just wants him to develop without the added pressure of the NHL. Not a terrible thing.

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04-30-2011, 08:52 PM
  #745
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i just hope we're able to pickup a forward here.

last year's draft showed us forwards go early.

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04-30-2011, 10:51 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Both were never as highly touted as Murphy.

Del Zotto is a one-dimensional defenseman who has fallen out of favor with HC. If his one dimension isn't on point he's in the minors. Offensive D is the one position/need where we don't have the fortune to wait around or hope this guy gets his **** together.

Anisimov is a lanky, not highly skilled centerman who can't grind. That's a great two-way forward isn't it? One you'll be waiting years for to show up in the playoffs..

Personally, if Murphy is as good as they say he is those two are expendable to get him. If he's closer to Doughty than Sanguinetti you make that move. It's nice to have youth coming through, but they just aren't that good.

Laughable. I suppose you would have dealt Nemchinov away for a prospect as well? We're trying to build a team here. Trading proven young commodities for a 5'9" 18 year old dman is not in the cards.

So I suppose it really doesn't matter if you like our 44 point 22 year old 2 way center or not, because there is no way management ever does anything remotely resembling that deal.

And a good thing, too.

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Old
04-30-2011, 11:31 PM
  #747
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Good gravy, some of this stuff is silly.

Those of you who suggest things like AA and MDZ for a guy who may be drafted - where? 8th through 18th? - ask yourself: why do these trades never happen? When's the last time a guy who had proven himself as a capable NHLer (never mind 22 with upside beyond just "capable") got traded for a pick whose upside is so uncertain that he isn't even projected to go in the top 5 (in a bad draft, no less)?

This isn't Sidney Crosby or Steven Stamkos here, guys. I mean, I certainly wouldn't complain if we wound up with Murphy, but there's still plenty of risk attached. You don't trade Anisimov for him straight up, much less in conjunction with MDZ to acquire him.

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Old
05-01-2011, 12:08 AM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Both were never as highly touted as Murphy.

Del Zotto is a one-dimensional defenseman who has fallen out of favor with HC. If his one dimension isn't on point he's in the minors. Offensive D is the one position/need where we don't have the fortune to wait around or hope this guy gets his **** together.

Anisimov is a lanky, not highly skilled centerman who can't grind. That's a great
two-way forward isn't it? One you'll be waiting years for to show up in the playoffs..

Personally, if Murphy is as good as they say he is those two are expendable to get him. If he's closer to Doughty than Sanguinetti you make that move. It's nice to have youth coming through, but they just aren't that good.
How do you discount Anisimov's 2-way play because he doesn't grind?

Murphy is just as one dimensional as Del Zotto is, but hasn't produced a point in thr NHL let alone the 40 MDZ has.

Murphy isn't even a guarantee to go top 10 is this draft, let alone being talked about as even close to Doughty.


Proposed trade is absolutely horrible value

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Old
05-01-2011, 01:00 AM
  #749
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Good gravy, some of this stuff is silly.

Those of you who suggest things like AA and MDZ for a guy who may be drafted - where? 8th through 18th? - ask yourself: why do these trades never happen? When's the last time a guy who had proven himself as a capable NHLer (never mind 22 with upside beyond just "capable") got traded for a pick whose upside is so uncertain that he isn't even projected to go in the top 5 (in a bad draft, no less)?

This isn't Sidney Crosby or Steven Stamkos here, guys. I mean, I certainly wouldn't complain if we wound up with Murphy, but there's still plenty of risk attached. You don't trade Anisimov for him straight up, much less in conjunction with MDZ to acquire him.
Manhattan Blue is simply too enamored with prospects here. People are playing up Murphy's game and potential way to much, I can't see him living up to the things I've read about him at all, just because it's incredibly hard to live up to that kind of potential.

The fact is. Del Zotto had an excellent rookie season, Anisimov is becoming a fine two way forward, and Murphy hasn't even stepped on NHL ice yet, and there is a chance he never well. There is a very strong possibility that he only becomes half the player people want him to become.

I'd rather trade Murphy for MDZ and Anisimov, I'd run away laughing with those two over Murphy.

It was only a few months ago that people wanted to trade away picks in this draft. Now Murphy, Strome, Landeskog, Zibanejad, etc are must haves, WTF IS GOING ON? I guess this is why this place is called Hockey's Future

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05-01-2011, 01:49 AM
  #750
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Regarding Hockeys Future...

It so happens that I am in Brazil right now (great place and I remember a story my father once told me that kind of sums it up regarding some of the prospect hype we see here from time to time. He was here in the 70:s doing a photoshoot for a major magazine and was talking to a Brazilian professor. He said lividly to the professor " I hear that Brazil is The Land of the Future with enormous potential?!"
"Yes", replied the professor slowly with an afterthought, "and it always will be."

Got it?

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