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Official Post-Season Discussion. Update: Gauthier to meet with Meehan

View Poll Results: Do you think Wiz will sign with the Habs ?
Yes 25 29.07%
No 61 70.93%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-29-2011, 11:59 PM
  #226
Talks to Goalposts
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Been reading my article on that on Olivier's blog, have you?

I might do a follow-up in the summer. The Black Hole that all the Habs' possession stats fell into has practically plugged itself up.



I think that's one factor. I think that they foreckecked more aggressively and defended the neutral zone much more, and had a better transition game this year. All this stuff adds up to a team that was, well, one of the better puck possession clubs in the league.

Now need to turn this puck possession into goals... but that should happen naturally.
Oliver's blog is awesome. Too bad he doesn't write in english, I can get the basic gist but my French isn't good enough to grasp all the subtlities of what he's talking about.

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04-30-2011, 01:57 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not quite sure. You have three righties, so Markov would have trouble setting up that one time shot he always does, and we all know he's not as comfortable playing on the right side
What do you think of this PP line?

Subban - Plekaneks - Cammellari
Markov - Wiz

The play shifts around left and right with Wiz and Subban taking alternatively the D position, and Andrei adjusts his position.

Sparkle with tough guys as needed

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04-30-2011, 02:21 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The thing about Gomez is that while he doesn't necessarily accumulate tons of points, the vast majority of them happen 5-on-5. Here's a list of his 5-on-5 point totals over the last few years:

51
37
40
40
40 (yes, 3 years in a row)
20

Which one looks like a fluke? Is there really a downward trend here? This year was especially freaky because, while he couldn't buy a point 5-on-5, he was very productive on the PP, where he usually isn't that great. Just a very flukey year for him.

He should get 35-40 points at evens next year, which is a pretty strong total. That also means he's not going to be a minus player, because he puts up 5-on-5 points, is pretty good at limiting chances against, and plays in front of elite goaltending.



Calling Scott Gomez "defensively weak" is silly (when I say his lack of production leads to people finding unrelated flaws for him, this is what I mean). He might not win Selkes but he is a very capable two-way player.

As for being a Stanley Cup Contender, I'm fairly sure Chicago would've qualified last year and that Campbell contract wasn't exactly a money-saver.



Montreal is a 100-point club next year if they keep Gomez. If they get rid of him and do not replace him with a center of equal skill (no mean feat), I think they're middle of the pack. Not having Gomez is going to force Martin to send Eller to the wolves; that's not going to work out well. Even if you factor in a low-end top-6ish center to replace Gomez, it's still going to weaken the team, and I don't see how you can spend whatever money you gain in such a way that you make up for the downgrade. Gomez has a very key role, which is why Montreal is willing to overpay him and why he's so difficult to replace.



Getting Brad Richards -- and, let's face it, that really means overpaying Brad Richards long-term -- is not going to improve the team nearly as much as you think it is and is going to put the Habs in a worse long-term cap situation than the Gomez contract does. You're basically taking Gomez, adding maybe 10 even-strength points, paying him an extra million, and lengthening the contract by three to five years -- declining years, because Richards is the same age as Gomez. Matchup-wise Richards isn't much better than Gomez. Puck possesion wise Gomez is better (Gomez is a fantastic puck possession player). Richards does put up more points, which is important, but if that's all you get, you're overpaying the difference. Heck, put Richards on the Habs and I think the #1 center still is Plekanec.

Note that I'm assuming we're actually talking about Scott Gomez. Not the caricature of him that's been painted, the one that can't defend, can't skate, can't stay out of the penalty box and can't play hockey. And that we understand that he's going to be back to normal next year. The scary thing is Gomez generated more chances this year and ended up with fewer points. It's flukey, but this stuff happens once in a while. Witness Patrick Marleau in 2007-2008. Or 2008-2009 Tomas Plekanec.

(Come to think of it, given the similar Plekanec example not so long ago, one might think that Habs fan would hesitate before declaring the doom of a player. But it's Montreal, we have very short memories here. )
I promise to eat my shorts if Gomez rebounds to something similar to his 1st year with us. (I'll even Youtube it.)
What you are describing is a slump, a statistical variation. I play poker for a living and follow baseball stats religiously, so I know all about the value of stats and, honestly, how long and large a slump/runbad can go/be. Its awful how long some baseball players run bad, and sometimes its for longer then a season. So its certainly possible.

All that said, you are missing a very important element here, and that is watching the friggin' games. Gomez is not the same player he used to be. I wasn't too sure of this myself earlier this year, when the 'ban Gomez to the center of the sun' bandwagon started. So I watched a bunch of his old games with the Devils, and even some of them with the Rangers. Back then, he was faster. He passed 'better' (more accurate, smarter, faster passes, and didn't telegraph them so easily). He certainly hit more, and was even alot like Pleks along the boards. He WON battles, regularly. He was a tough man to get off the puck. Now, in the rare instance he actually holds the puck near the boards for more then 3 seconds, he often gives it away with a poor passing choice rather then continue the fight.

These are intangibles I'm describing, and in hockey they are incredibly important. Gomez created more scoring chances statistically, but the QUALITY of those chances were far, far inferior to what he used to create. His average 2010-11 scoring chance was a far cry from his average NJ-years scoring chance. And his poor decisions/poor battles affected anyone who played on his line. It is difficult to find statistcal proof of this, especially since the only stats that help prove it (Pts, +/-) are certainly prone to variation. but if we get the same Scott Gomez of 2010-11 next year, I would bet alot of money that he struggles statistically in a similar fashion.

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Old
04-30-2011, 02:24 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
What do you think of this PP line?

Subban - Plekaneks - Cammellari
Markov - Wiz

The play shifts around left and right with Wiz and Subban taking alternatively the D position, and Andrei adjusts his position.

Sparkle with tough guys as needed
Not bad, and has alot of wiggle room for movement. Subban can easily cover for Markov when Markov pinches, the whole line can shift to get either Subban or Cammy into the high left or right slot for the one-timer, and I think Subban standing in front of the net would certainly get the kind of reaction we'd want on a PP. It really would overwhelm the defenders with options they'd have to cover.

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04-30-2011, 02:37 AM
  #230
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Then shift midway with

Pacioretty, Eller, Gionta
Subban, Weber

Double shift for Subban if he doesn't seem too out of gas. :-D

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04-30-2011, 02:40 AM
  #231
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All right. I know it might be silly, bu what do you think will happen to Gomez and the Dogs if he plays for them?

He'll probably be paired with Louis Leblanc. I think their styles might mix very well, giving good potential to Louis to develop alongside a real veteran.

Aaaand we'd have the free cap space..

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04-30-2011, 02:45 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Calling Scott Gomez "defensively weak" is silly (when I say his lack of production leads to people finding unrelated flaws for him, this is what I mean). He might not win Selkes but he is a very capable two-way player.

As for being a Stanley Cup Contender, I'm fairly sure Chicago would've qualified last year and that Campbell contract wasn't exactly a money-saver.
Mentioning Gomez being even marginally close to a Selke is laughable. Put him up against someone like Kesler on a nightly basis and Gomez would be so badly out played it would be almost hilarious to see. He is defensively average at best and noticeably inferior in the offensive zone if he attempts anything excluding a pass. Frankly, I would credit his five on five play more to Gionta and Pacioretty than him being decent.


Quote:
Montreal is a 100-point club next year if they keep Gomez. If they get rid of him and do not replace him with a center of equal skill (no mean feat), I think they're middle of the pack. Not having Gomez is going to force Martin to send Eller to the wolves; that's not going to work out well. Even if you factor in a low-end top-6ish center to replace Gomez, it's still going to weaken the team, and I don't see how you can spend whatever money you gain in such a way that you make up for the downgrade. Gomez has a very key role, which is why Montreal is willing to overpay him and why he's so difficult to replace.
No, Montreal is a 100 point club if Markov and Gorges are in the line up. Replace Gomez with Eller and they still could be provided Cammalleri and others retain a degree of consistency that was lacking this season. When Kostitsyn suited up with Eller, he played reasonably well despite the limited ice time. Put him with Gomez and he was horrid. Cammalleri had similar issues, which was primarily why when Pacioretty actually worked. Martin never even attempted anything else or thought that Pac might be better on Plek's wing.

Gomez is not difficult to replace. Unless he has a remarkable turnaround season, he will become a liability as soon as next season. He was certainly one against Boston, excluding two games.

Quote:
Getting Brad Richards -- and, let's face it, that really means overpaying Brad Richards long-term -- is not going to improve the team nearly as much as you think it is and is going to put the Habs in a worse long-term cap situation than the Gomez contract does. You're basically taking Gomez, adding maybe 10 even-strength points, paying him an extra million, and lengthening the contract by three to five years -- declining years, because Richards is the same age as Gomez. Matchup-wise Richards isn't much better than Gomez. Puck possesion wise Gomez is better (Gomez is a fantastic puck possession player). Richards does put up more points, which is important, but if that's all you get, you're overpaying the difference. Heck, put Richards on the Habs and I think the #1 center still is Plekanec.
... okay, now you are speaking in delusions. Richards is a point per game player, who is one year removed from a 91 point season. Unless Gomez miraculously nets 70 points next season, paying eight million for Richards is a widely superior option if it were available and this purely from point statistics basis. If you factor in everything Richards offers, there is just no comparison. You are significantly undervaluing Richards to craft an argument in favor of Gomez for reasons I can only attribute to blind optimism. The is evident by claiming Plekanec is the better of the two, which is completely inaccurate. Plekanec's career high is just an average year on Richards' stats.

If we signed Richards, then one of Eller or Plekanec becomes expendable in the distance future. Ideally, we could move one to fill a need elsewhere, possibly on the wing for instance. Alternatively, we could run San Jose's system. Joe Pavelski on the third line is just mocking other teams with how much depth you have and with the development of Couture. San Jose could move either for that top ranking defenseman they covet to play with Boyle.

As for declining. Ask St. Louis, Selanne and Iginla how "declining with age" has been working for them. A long term contract would be a risk, but at least we would be comfort knowing Richards would maintain 60-70 points at worst far more likely than he would drop to 38 points.

Quote:
Note that I'm assuming we're actually talking about Scott Gomez. Not the caricature of him that's been painted, the one that can't defend, can't skate, can't stay out of the penalty box and can't play hockey. And that we understand that he's going to be back to normal next year. The scary thing is Gomez generated more chances this year and ended up with fewer points. It's flukey, but this stuff happens once in a while. Witness Patrick Marleau in 2007-2008. Or 2008-2009 Tomas Plekanec.
Once again you are blurring the facts to appease your argument. Both Marleau and Plekanec had one average to poor season, the latter of which was still finding his game at the NHL level. Gomez on the other hand was having average seasons two years ago, dropped to abysmal and still costs more than either did at the time. Gomez at 50 points is still vastly overpaid and hinders our success. He will suit up this season only because we haven't an alternative and probably will have the cap space until we sign a large amount of UFAs. Unless he nets 60 points next year, he should be gone.

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Old
04-30-2011, 03:02 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by SolkaTruesilver View Post
All right. I know it might be silly, bu what do you think will happen to Gomez and the Dogs if he plays for them?

He'll probably be paired with Louis Leblanc. I think their styles might mix very well, giving good potential to Louis to develop alongside a real veteran.

Aaaand we'd have the free cap space..
I don't think a guy like Gomez would go to Hamilton. He's been an NHL vet forever, and at one time was among the better players in the league. Thats a tough pill to ask anyone to swallow. I would not think less of him for not wanting to ride the bus in the AHL...
I could easily see us 'selling' his contract to a European team though, much like the Hawks did with Huet.

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04-30-2011, 11:06 AM
  #234
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I don't think a guy like Gomez would go to Hamilton. He's been an NHL vet forever, and at one time was among the better players in the league. Thats a tough pill to ask anyone to swallow. I would not think less of him for not wanting to ride the bus in the AHL...
I could easily see us 'selling' his contract to a European team though, much like the Hawks did with Huet.
I find it highly unlikely that Gomez is demoted to the AHL or loaned to a European club, I don't think the team will really look into these as options. I also don't think he is as untradeable as others seem to think. I'm not saying he is a lock to be dealt, but teams may show interest. I think he is much more movable than Spacek. That is because of the depth of their positions available in the UFA market this offseason. There is a limited amount of quality centers available but many dmen options. So teams may become desperate for a center (hopefully). PHX just got swept and CLB missed the PO's altogether. They need the playoffs for added revenue and to attract more fans. There was rumored interest near the deadline so hopefully that is still the case.

I don't think the Habs will trade Gomez with the plan to replace him with Richards. If they trade him it will probably be because they feel Eller is ready for that position and more responsibility. I thought he improved greatly during the season and had a good playoffs. He definitely has the tools but I'm not sure he is ready. If he improves his size and strength this summer it may go a long way for him. I thought Desharnais played very well when moved to the wing, so it may be a good option to convert him to LW and add a strong 3rd line center to ease Eller's responsibilities. So I only think Gomez is moved if they feel Eller is ready. That would be a lot of cap space freed to improve the team's other areas.

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04-30-2011, 11:30 AM
  #235
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I think JM is a good coach, and gets alot out of his team. One move I'd like to see though is Martin move out from behind the bench to a advisor role, similar to Bowman or Gainey. Let Kirk coach. He's got the respect of the players and I fear that if we let him go we'll regret it.

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04-30-2011, 12:23 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by RNiner View Post
What you are describing is a slump, a statistical variation. I play poker for a living and follow baseball stats religiously, so I know all about the value of stats and, honestly, how long and large a slump/runbad can go/be. Its awful how long some baseball players run bad, and sometimes its for longer then a season. So its certainly possible.
That's exactly what it is. The stats tell us that he's generating puck possession ans scoring chances. So he's doing everything he can to win. He keeps going all-in with the best hand and getting beat. It happens.

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All that said, you are missing a very important element here, and that is watching the friggin' games. Gomez is not the same player he used to be.
See, my observation of the games tell me you're wrong. So what do we do?

Collecting stats, remember, is nothing more than the observation of games with a systematic approach. The big problem about undirected observations is that they're heavily affected by one's preconceived notions. This is true of all humans. This is why this sort of thing is so common:

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I wasn't too sure of this myself earlier this year, when the 'ban Gomez to the center of the sun' bandwagon started. So I watched a bunch of his old games with the Devils, and even some of them with the Rangers. Back then, he was faster. He passed 'better' (more accurate, smarter, faster passes, and didn't telegraph them so easily). He certainly hit more, and was even alot like Pleks along the boards. He WON battles, regularly. He was a tough man to get off the puck. Now, in the rare instance he actually holds the puck near the boards for more then 3 seconds, he often gives it away with a poor passing choice rather then continue the fight.
You watch those games with the expectation to see that Gomez was weaker. Humans being fantastic pattern recognizers, those times where Gomez lost a battle stuck out in your mind, whereas those times that he didn't, well, didn't stick out as much. This is why it's so important to observe games quantitatively.

If Gomez was taking bad decisions and turning the puck over all the time, his possession stats wouldn't be this strong. He wouldn't have improved on them from last year (virtually all the Habs improved). It doesn't compute.

But we don't have to rely on possession stats, either. Remember justthoughts? He examined things like one-on-one battles in the only way that can give you a clear idea: he counted them, wins and losses. He published his total numbers as an overall score for the year. I think you can read them and raw your own conclusion, but here's a hint: the stats for everyone are closely bunched together and Gomez is right in there with the rest:

http://www.boucherscouting.com/2011/...ts-for_30.html

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These are intangibles I'm describing, and in hockey they are incredibly important. Gomez created more scoring chances statistically, but the QUALITY of those chances were far, far inferior to what he used to create.
Observer bias again, fed by a circular argument. People think the reason Gomez hasn't produced goals is because they think he created low-quality shots. And the reason people think Gomez created low quality shots is because he hasn't produced goals.

Shot quality exists at the indiviual level. But at the macro level, it's a red herring, so much that behindthenethockey.com has a 150$ bounty if someone can prove it has a significant at the whole-team, whole-season level.

Olivier's scoring chances are defined as shots from the "home plate" area. All those shots are dangerous and variations of quality in the shots in that area are small, and variations in individual scoring chance quality get drowned into the overall total.

Much of the complaining about Gomez is self-fuelling fire from all the complaining about Gomez. This is, of course, a common occurence in Montreal: witness Carey Price, for one among a multitude of examples.

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04-30-2011, 12:29 PM
  #237
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[QUOTE=habfaninvictoria;32786005]I think JM is a good coach, and gets alot out of his team. One move I'd like to see though is Martin move out from behind the bench to a advisor role, similar to Bowman or Gainey. Let Kirk coach. He's got the respect of the players and I fear that if we let him go we'll regret it.[/QUOTE]

History has shown then when an ass.coach moves up to head coach with the same team, things don't go as well. Right now, he dosen't need to bench guys, take difficult decisions, bref, he's playing the ''good guy'' role with the players. He can't act the way as a head coach.

I like Muller a lot but his futur as a head coach would be better off with another team.


As for the Gomez situation and his ****ing contract, with all the money invested in it, I'm willing to give him another year to turn it around. He needs to have the best offseason of his career and have a stellar season next year. If not, bury him in the minors in 2012-13.

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04-30-2011, 12:51 PM
  #238
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Mentioning Gomez being even marginally close to a Selke is laughable. Put him up against someone like Kesler on a nightly basis and Gomez would be so badly out played it would be almost hilarious to see.
Kesler is very good, if a trifle overrated, but without saying Gomez is as good, I think that matchup wouldn't go nearly as badly as you seem to think.

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No, Montreal is a 100 point club if Markov and Gorges are in the line up. Replace Gomez with Eller and they still could be provided Cammalleri and others retain a degree of consistency that was lacking this season.
Eller would get torched by second-line comps. We know this because it happened every time Martin has tried it. This is why he didn't. He will eventually, and Martin is slowly bringing him up to do just that, and when he does, that's the time the Habs should, and in fact must, strongly consider ditching Gomez. Not before.

You're saying that Gomez would get torched by Kesler. How well do you think Eller would do at this stage in this career? He'd get utterly pasted, that's what would happen. It wouldn't be pretty. And it would happen over and over again.

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Gomez is not difficult to replace. Unless he has a remarkable turnaround season, he will become a liability as soon as next season. He was certainly one against Boston, excluding two games.
You can pretty much take a turnaround season by Gomez to the bank. He doesn't even have to play better, though I think he will. Regardless, it's just extremely unlikely that the team shoots 4.73% at evens again with him on the ice. His possession numbers are strong and, playing in front of Carey Price, there's also no reason to believe he'll be a minus player.

Quality centers with tough-matchup abilities are very rare so teams hang on to them. That's why Gainey had to eat Gomez's contract in the first place.

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... okay, now you are speaking in delusions. Richards is a point per game player, who is one year removed from a 91 point season. Unless Gomez miraculously nets 70 points next season, paying eight million for Richards is a widely superior option if it were available and this purely from point statistics basis.
I'm not delusional, you're just blinded by stats.

And bad stats at that. Specifically, raw points total, which is a terribly uninformative stat even if it's the way everyone and his dog measures total player value. We don't have to go very deep, though to understand what I mean.

Gomez is usually good for 35-40 points at even-strength. Here's Richards' even-strength point totals over the last few seasons:

35 (less than Gomez that year)
31 (that was less than Gomez that year)
27 (projects to 40 on 82 games, same as Gomez that year)
51
48

So Richards has had two strong seasons with Dallas 5-on-5, but previously, there was little to distinguish him from Gomez in raw 5-on-5 scoring.

Richards is a better power play player. No argument there. Do the Habs, a perennial top-10 power play team that draws a stupidly low number of penalties, really need power play help? No, and not only that, but Montreal's inability to draw calls will make a dent into Richards' PP production, which means his point totals are likely to go down (quite possibly below the PPG level) if he plays with Montreal, simply because they have less PP time and more PP weaponry than Dallas -- so less PP points for Richards.

Replacing Gomez by Richards isn't going to help the Habs nearly as much as people seem to think. This is not saying that Richards isn't better, but the long-term investment (think 64 million over 8 years for Richards, that sort of thing) that it would require is better spent elsewhere, especially since I think the Habs do plan on cutting rope with Gomez... in a year or two.

Don't get me wrong. If Gauthier can replace Gomez with Richards and not expend too many resources (a draft pick to send along with Gomez for a B prospect, and say half a million in extra cap space over a three- or four-year contract for Richards), I think this would be a masterstroke. He just improved his club at a key position for little loss. I think the likelihood of this happening, however, is just about nil.

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If you factor in everything Richards offers, there is just no comparison. You are significantly undervaluing Richards to craft an argument in favor of Gomez for reasons I can only attribute to blind optimism. The is evident by claiming Plekanec is the better of the two, which is completely inaccurate. Plekanec's career high is just an average year on Richards' stats.
And people say I'm blinded by stats???!?!?!?

You are building your entire argument on a single statistic, point total, one that is exceedingly limited in its ability to evaluate total player value.

I think Pleks is a better matchup center, so I think he would still get #1 center assignments. I could easily be wrong about this, however. Plus that's actually an argument for Richards: he might score more if he gets to face second-line comps, enough to replace the inevitable decline in PP scoring. Or he could end up facing first-line comps and then Pleky could score more.

(Which is one thing I'm not sure why Martin hasn't done with Gomez, actually. Gomez seems more mindful of his defense against tougher comps. Give him the opposing first line to deal with with Gionta and MaxPac (or Moen once MaxPac is out), let 13-14-46 go wild against second-line comps. Of course, the opposing coach may not want to allow this.)

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If we signed Richards, then one of Eller or Plekanec becomes expendable in the distance future.
Richards is 30, same as Gomez, and older than Plekanec or Eller. In the "distant future", the expendable guy who is going to be Richards.

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As for declining. Ask St. Louis, Selanne and Iginla how "declining with age" has been working for them.
Ask Scott Gomez. He's what, six months older than Richards, yet people insist on telling me he has completely fallen off a cliff and will never get back. By that logic I must assume there's a chance Richards will suddenly turn into total suck as early as next year.

And again, I suggest you broaden your statistical horizons. Insisting on raw point totals as the total value of a player is going to blind you to other factors. There's a lot more to statistical analysis than comparing someone's goal and assist totals.


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04-30-2011, 12:55 PM
  #239
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As for the Gomez situation and his ****ing contract, with all the money invested in it, I'm willing to give him another year to turn it around. He needs to have the best offseason of his career and have a stellar season next year. If not, bury him in the minors in 2012-13.
I'll be very surprised if Gomez isn't a Hab in 2011-2012.

I'll be mildly surprised if Gomez is a Hab in 2012-2013, regardless of how he does. I think that's the target for replacing him with Eller (who should be ready by then) and using that cap space on something else than center.

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04-30-2011, 01:04 PM
  #240
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I'll be very surprised if Gomez isn't a Hab in 2011-2012.

I'll be mildly surprised if Gomez is a Hab in 2012-2013, regardless of how he does. I think that's the target for replacing him with Eller (who should be ready by then) and using that cap space on something else than center.
That is when I think Gomez is going to be traded, not because of his contract. If the Habs feel they can go next season with Eller as #2 then they will trade Gomez. If he still needs another year of grooming then Gomez will be dealt after that. I don't think they are going to trade him to fill his position with a UFA. I think this summer's offseason training and conditioning for Eller will go a long way into his further development.

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04-30-2011, 01:12 PM
  #241
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That is when I think Gomez is going to be traded, not because of his contract. If the Habs feel they can go next season with Eller as #2 then they will trade Gomez. If he still needs another year of grooming then Gomez will be dealt after that.
Correct, IMO, but given how Eller has done with tough comps this year, I don't think the org feels that. But he's close. That kid is going to be very, very good. He'd have more points but he suffered from the same malady as Gomez for half the year (low on-ice shooting percentage, but then playing will Pyatt will do that to you).

If they get a good offer for Gomez, however, better than they expect to get next year, they might take the plunge, replace Gomez with a stopgap center, and hang in there and hope Eller is done developping mid-season. They have elite goaltending and good depth throughout the lineup; even with a weak second-line center, they should be able to hold on to a playoff spot, even if it's going to be on the bubble.

I don't see this happening however. After last season, I think they have very high hopes for 2011-2012, as well they should; they won't risk canning the season by crippling their center depth.

Of course, the other reason Gomez may leave prematurely is if Gauthier gets a stupid offer (Gomez-for-Stastny or a similar pipe dream) or manages to get Richards on a value contract, but that's, well, a pipe dream.

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04-30-2011, 01:15 PM
  #242
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Correct, IMO, but given how Eller has done with tough comps this year, I don't think the org feels that.

If they get a good offer for Gomez, however, better than they expect to get next year, they might take the plunge, replace Gomez with a stopgap center, and hang in there and hope Eller is done developping mid-season. They have elite goaltending and good depth throughout the lineup; even with a weak second-line center, they should be able to hold on to a playoff spot, even if it's going to be on the bubble.

I don't see this happening however. After last season, I think they have very high hopes for 2011-2012, as well they should; they won't risk canning the season by crippling their center depth.

Of course, the other reason Gomez may leave prematurely is if Gauthier gets a stupid offer (Gomez-for-Stastny or a similar pipe dream) or manages to get Richards on a value contract, but that's, well, a pipe dream.
I just feel there are many more options than the Habs being "stuck with him" like other's seem to think. The UFA market seems to be very slim pickings for quality centers, so you really don't know what other team's may offer.

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04-30-2011, 01:18 PM
  #243
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I just feel there are many more options than the Habs being "stuck with him" like other's seem to think. The UFA market seems to be very slim pickings for quality centers, so you really don't know what other team's may offer.
It's certainly possible that some other club may take a flyer on Gomez the way Gainey did for lack of better alternatives. But there's two problems with that scenario: first, Gomez has just had the worst season of his career, so GMs won't offer fair value. Second, and most important by far, Montreal needs a guy to fill his role, and those guys are, as you quite rightly point out, rare. If they trade away Gomez to some team desperate for a tough-minutes center, the Habs instantly become a team desperate for a tough-minutes center.

The Habs are "stuck with Gomez" less because other teams don't want him than because the Habs need someone in his role and have no alternatives. As soon as an alternative materializes...

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04-30-2011, 02:06 PM
  #244
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With Price, Subban, Plekanec, Gionta, Cammalleri, Markov, Gorges, Pacioretty, Eller, Wisniewski, etc I really like our future. I think that's by far the best core we have had in a very long time.

Now we just somehow have to get rid of Gomez and Spacek.
I'm with this.

What annoys me is that the two guys I like the most as far as their personalities go are the two guys I want to see leave for the betterment of the team.

Gomez is untradeable at his cap-hit, and unless we get lucky and are able to trade Spacek to a team that's having injury trouble and need a one-season depth defenceman, nobody's going to want him either as he's aging, slow, and prone to offensive zone mistakes.

When you have so much invested into a guy like Gomez, I really hate to admit any major failings and keep the faith, but the letdown this season has been beyond what I'm willing to overlook. I'm very hopeful that he'll turn it around next season though, so I won't give up on him if the management doesn't, but it's going to be a bitter pill to swallow if this happens again.

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04-30-2011, 02:39 PM
  #245
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leave gomez alone

Leave gomez alone. He had a terrible season, we cannot trade him this off season for 2 reasons - 1. nobody wants him so we would have to give up assest or assests to get rid of him. Habs have too much class to bury him in the minors. Do any of you run a business. No competent owner will throw away 17.5 million dollars (remaining of gomez contract 3 years) to sign the likes of laich, or upshall etc.

Give gomez one more year, eller is not ready for full time 2nd line duty yet. Take 8 miilion more of his contract, it becomes more disgestable to trade to another team because we need money to sign price and subban after next season. They are going to make big dough cap hit aprox. 11 million per season.

if gomez has a good year then we will trade him for something useful, if not we will send him to europe with 9 million dollars , and he will never come back to the nhl again

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04-30-2011, 02:46 PM
  #246
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Unrestricted Free Agent Enforcers

There are a bunch of them. Steve MacIntyre, Mike Rupp, Eric Godard, Cam Janssen, Zenon Konopka and more.... I think the only one who could possible go toe to toe with Chara would be MacIntyre. We definetely need one even if he only plays in the regular season. At least Konopka can take face offs.

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04-30-2011, 02:48 PM
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There are a bunch of them. Steve MacIntyre, Mike Rupp, Eric Godard, Cam Janssen, Zenon Konopka and more.... I think the only one who could possible go toe to toe with Chara would be MacIntyre. We definetely need one even if he only plays in the regular season. At least Konopka can take face offs.
That's the guy I want!

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04-30-2011, 02:53 PM
  #248
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Enforcers are worse than useless. Usually they're actually a negative towards winning games. I'm glad the Habs are among the teams that have woken up to that fact.

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04-30-2011, 02:54 PM
  #249
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A guy like Konopka would be awesome to add since he's great at faceoffs, Moen - Konopka - White would be a nice 4th line.

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04-30-2011, 02:54 PM
  #250
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I think Mike Rupp would be a good option... he can play around 10min a game or more and he's been impressive for a tough guy when i've watched him the last few years.

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