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Old
05-01-2011, 08:39 PM
  #76
phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You could do that... or have a Vokoun/Boucher combo, with Bob getting 60+ games starting in the AHL. I think I would prefer Bob playing a lot of games as opposed to backing up someone like Vokoun.

I agree with Jester. Also, if we spend about 5 mil on either Vokoun or Bryz this off-season, then we are going to be really tight to the cap limit and if we can have boucher as the backup for a mil less than Bob AND let Bob play a lot of games in the AHL then I think that's our best option.


What I would do would be to try and sign Bryz to like an 8 or 10 year contract that's front loaded. Say 50 mil for 10 years, structured so he gets 8 mil a year for the first 5 years, 4 mil in year 6, and 1.5 mil in years 7-10. He can retire from the NHL at age 37 after year 6 and go back to Russia and the KHL if he likes.

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05-01-2011, 08:41 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I agree with Jester. Also, if we spend about 5 mil on either Vokoun or Bryz this off-season, then we are going to be really tight to the cap limit and if we can have boucher as the backup for a mil less than Bob AND let Bob play a lot of games in the AHL then I think that's our best option.


What I would do would be to try and sign Bryz to like an 8 or 10 year contract that's front loaded. Say 50 mil for 10 years, structured so he gets 8 mil a year for the first 5 years, 4 mil in year 6, and 1.5 mil in years 7-10. He can retire from the NHL at age 37 after year 6 and go back to Russia and the KHL if he likes.
Remember Kovalchuk?

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05-01-2011, 08:51 PM
  #78
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Timonen View Post
Tomas Vokoun is 34 yrs old. He turns 35 on July 2nd. If he signed with the Flyers on July 1 would it still be a 35+ contract?
Yes, it is the age of the player on the last day of the first season the new contract takes affect. In this case it would be the age of the player on June 30th of 2012 so Vokoun would be considered a 35+ player signing.

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05-01-2011, 08:52 PM
  #79
AlanHoff
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If we think JVR turns into a consistant 25-30 goal scorer, doesn't Carter for Bernier/Simmonds make sense...Does LA even do this, do we even do this???

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05-01-2011, 08:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Remember Kovalchuk?
We wouldn't be signing him until he was 45 years old. The contract would expire when he was 40, not unrealistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanHoff View Post
If we think JVR turns into a consistant 25-30 goal scorer, doesn't Carter for Bernier/Simmonds make sense...Does LA even do this, do we even do this???
I do think that JVR makes Carter somewhat expendable but I doubt that Carter is dealt seeing how he was just signed to an 11-year contract. Also, Carter is worth FAR FAR more than either of those guys. Versteeg + a minor prospect or a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick is probably fair market value for a young unproven backup goalie like Bernier/Schneider though those teams may not be willing to trade them for that package.

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05-01-2011, 09:04 PM
  #81
AlanHoff
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I do think that JVR makes Carter somewhat expendable but I doubt that Carter is dealt seeing how he was just signed to an 11-year contract. Also, Carter is worth FAR FAR more than either of those guys. Versteeg + a minor prospect or a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick is probably fair market value for a young unproven backup goalie like Bernier/Schneider though those teams may not be willing to trade them for that package.
I know about the Carter contract which would be a road block, however, Ive resigned myself to the fact that if we get a goalie via free agency or trade, we're going to overpay for him...

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05-01-2011, 09:06 PM
  #82
AlanHoff
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Also, not directed right at the last response by at the topic as a whole, do we really think that Versteeg is worth anything? We overapid a 1st and a 3rd for him...I dont think him and a prospect brings back Bernier, Schneider or any of the younger guys

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05-01-2011, 09:08 PM
  #83
SolidSnakeUS
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Honestly though, I don't want another goalie for more than 2 years, mainly because I don't want Bob out of the loop and put into the back seat for so long that we'd have to get rid of him. I'd hate that.

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Old
05-01-2011, 09:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Honestly though, I don't want another goalie for more than 2 years, mainly because I don't want Bob out of the loop and put into the back seat for so long that we'd have to get rid of him. I'd hate that.
what are you? his agent? if we can get a better goalie than bob and he needs to be stuffed on the bench or the minors, so be it.

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05-01-2011, 09:16 PM
  #85
AlanHoff
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Honestly though, I don't want another goalie for more than 2 years, mainly because I don't want Bob out of the loop and put into the back seat for so long that we'd have to get rid of him. I'd hate that.
Do you not wanna hurt his feelings?

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Old
05-01-2011, 09:16 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
We have plenty of cash. It's space that we need.
That's what I meant, sorry

The more we get torched in the playoffs, the more expendable players I see for opening up cap space. I'd be willing to move/drop Zherdev, Odie, Carle, Carcillo or Powe, Boucher, Leighton, Versteeg, Boynton, Syvret, Shelley and Carter. That's about 17 million, but obviously I wouldn't be looking to move them all.

I think we have guys in the system who are ready to step up and be full-time bottom pair defensemen, while Mesz moves up the depth chart. Same with guys who are able to come in and play as 3rd/4th liners.

Something along the lines of:
JvR - Richards - Versteeg
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Nodl - Giroux - Carter
Wellwood/Shelley - Betts - Powe

Pronger - Meszaros
Coburn - Timonen
Gustafsson - Bartulis

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

Thats a lineup without Syvret, Boynton, Carcillo, Boucher, Leighton, Zherdev, Carle, and O'Donnell (and Cote off the books) which would open up about 12 million in cap space, which should be enough to re-sign Leino and sign a very good starting goaltender.

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Old
05-01-2011, 09:21 PM
  #87
AlanHoff
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All of these teams with the "good" backups only have 2 goalies...There's a team playing tonight that has 3 young guys...Do we have any interest in Varly/Neuvirth/Holtby?

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Old
05-01-2011, 09:51 PM
  #88
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its all about corey schneider or jon bernier. and whoever says their unproven doesnt watch them play, especially schneider is awesome. we'd have to go after a team that has 2 starters to snag a goalie for a decent price. im willin to give up substantial goods for schneider. the one thing bein overlooked with signin someone like vokoun is money. lets not pretend like we dont need leino. Btw id take a cardboard cut out at this point anyway, but it seems like the only team in the league without good goalie prospects are us.

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Old
05-01-2011, 10:03 PM
  #89
JDinkalage Morgoone
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What's up with Washington's goalie situation? Are they doing a tandem or is it Neuvirth from here on out?

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Old
05-01-2011, 10:10 PM
  #90
AlanHoff
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
What's up with Washington's goalie situation? Are they doing a tandem or is it Neuvirth from here on out?
ive heard its gonna be Holtby's job to lose next year...They like him the best of the 3 with Neuvirth being 2nd in line

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Old
05-01-2011, 10:11 PM
  #91
ilovetheflyers8
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I think the maximum we could spend on Vokoun is around 3.75ish for two years if we want to have Bartulis as an extra defender, keep Bob as the back up, and have room to call up someone like Wellwood, Sestito, or Rinaldo for a brief period of time (all three have a hit of 580,000 or less). However, I don't think this scenario is likely considering I think Leino is here to stay, as Holmgren consulted him on the Versteeg deal.

edit- I'm not sure putting Bob in the minors would be a great idea considering he has already proved he can play at the NHL level for over half the season (he played in 54 but, I'm not sure how many he started). So it might be a blow to him to be sent down to the AHL, though I do remember him being quoted early last season, or before the season that he would understand if he had to spend some time in the AHL . In addition since he can already play relatively well at the NHL level, would playing a bunch at the AHL level really be that helpful? On the other hand I see, playing 60 games for two seasons straight in the AHL, would probably be better than playing around 25 or less games a season in the NHL, and could be an equal or close blow to his confidence.

FORWARDS
Andreas Nodl ($0.990m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m) / Matt Walker ($1.700m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) / Vokoun ($3.715m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,819,988; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $580,012

Edit 2- JVR's contract is up in 2012, and Walker leaving could provide the money to pay him, but there wouldn't be much if any room for call ups, and would we be comfortable with Bartulis as a regular? Coburn and Versteeg's contract are also up at the end of next season. If we aren't keeping Versteeg that money could potentially cover a raise to Coburn and perhaps more to JVR (700,000-1 million at most, split between both of them if split at all), a bit over a million dollar replacement (probably 1.5 at the most), and some cap space. Bartulis and Gustaffsson's are up in 2013 I believe, and Giroux's is up in 2014.


Last edited by ilovetheflyers8: 05-01-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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Old
05-01-2011, 10:43 PM
  #92
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Personally, I'd prefer that Bob stay with the big club, if only to keep getting the best coaching. Even though the majority of the Adirondack problems seem to have been solved, I think Bob would benefit more from working with Neil Little than just getting a lot of work.

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05-01-2011, 10:49 PM
  #93
Beef Invictus
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I'm not interested in Varly. His health is sketchy.

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05-01-2011, 10:58 PM
  #94
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The wild card in this discussion is that Michael F. Leighton is signed for next season. Of course they can waive him, but I have the sneaking suspicion that he'll still get a shot in the preseason.

That being said, I would like to see Paul Holmgren make a serious and well thought out move to sign Vokoun. No trading for his rights, just a straightforward solid deal without putting the moon on a silver platter. Start at 3 years @ $3 mil per and move up to $3.5 max.

Kick the tires on Bryz, but I agree with others who suspect that he's looking for a big payday.

After them? Who the heck knows.

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05-01-2011, 11:01 PM
  #95
phlocky
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Originally Posted by AlanHoff View Post
Also, not directed right at the last response by at the topic as a whole, do we really think that Versteeg is worth anything? We overapid a 1st and a 3rd for him...I dont think him and a prospect brings back Bernier, Schneider or any of the younger guys
Versteeg is probably worth about a mid 2nd and a low 3rd/high 4th. Schneider/Bernier is probably worth around a mid-low 1st. A deal centered around Versteeg + could work for one of them IF (and this is a VERY BIG IF) the other team feels they have a need for a player like Versteeg.

Versteeg + 2012 2nd rnd pick should be fair for one of them.


Neither guy has accomplished anything close to what Halak did last year with the Habs (beating the Pens and Caps, both high scoring offensive minded teams, last year in the playoffs) so unlike what their fans think, neither Schneider nor Bernier will return nearly as much as Halak did last year. Them asking for JVR in return is laughable. I think that Schneider will be moved in the next 14 months (before the draft next year) and that unless Quick falls on his face next year that Bernier will be moved by then too. I think then is when you'll see these guys moved for something like Versteed + 2nd rnd pick.

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05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
  #96
BernieParent
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Versteeg is probably worth about a mid 2nd and a low 3rd/high 4th. Schneider/Bernier is probably worth around a mid-low 1st. A deal centered around Versteeg + could work for one of them IF (and this is a VERY BIG IF) the other team feels they have a need for a player like Versteeg.

Versteeg + 2012 2nd rnd pick should be fair for one of them.
I wonder if Versteeg + Bob would get it done.

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05-01-2011, 11:25 PM
  #97
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I wonder if Versteeg + Bob would get it done.
I really hope you're joking about Bob...

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Old
05-01-2011, 11:32 PM
  #98
phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I wonder if Versteeg + Bob would get it done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I really hope you're joking about Bob...

I'd DEFINITELY trade Versteeg + Bob for Schneider and if not him then Bernier, but I can't see why either of those teams would want a goalie prospect back in return. It kind of defeats the purpose of them trading away their young goalie in the first place. I think either Wellwood of Gustafsson would be more desireable to them.

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05-01-2011, 11:38 PM
  #99
decadentia
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I'd DEFINITELY trade Versteeg + Bob for Schneider and if not him then Bernier, but I can't see why either of those teams would want a goalie prospect back in return. It kind of defeats the purpose of them trading away their young goalie in the first place. I think either Wellwood of Gustafsson would be more desireable to them.
If it weren't for the salary cap it would make sense for both LA and Vancouver. They are trading down to a goalie with arguably less potential, can play backup, and then getting a serviceable forward in return.

Neither teams need to worry about having a #1 develop with Quick (who is cheap/good) and Luongo. Also, who knows, Bob may pan out.

I don't know if i'd pull the trigger myself, I find "potential" around here seems to go a bit too far...especially considering the development of goalies is a fickle business. Personally as mentioned before, I think going after Vokoun is a sound investment.

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05-01-2011, 11:51 PM
  #100
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They just need to get a veteran like vokoun to play for the next couple years and bridge the gap to when bob is ready to be the full time starter. And let bob be the backup or starter in the AHL, whichever they think will help his development more.

Obviously they shouldnt over pay for any of FA gaolies but they'll have to lose one if not two of Leino, Versteeg, and Carle. We dont want to hinder ourselves anymore with cap to where we cant resign JVR after next year. Who knows what hell make, he could have an amazing season next year like giroux did this year

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