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05-01-2011, 05:23 PM
  #1
SMoneyMonkey
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Jack Johnson for Luke Schenn

I don't know if this is a fair deal or even something we should consider. I just think it'd be an interesting thing to talk about. Obviously Toronto would have to add as Schenn is an RFA and JJ is probably better. But would you consider it?

First, Jack Johnson is big and American so, Burke would probably be all for overpaying. Added to which, he seems to love defensemen who can't play D (Komisarek, Phaneuf).

Second, we have Schenn's brother so he would probably sign for a bit of a discount to be in the same organization.

Third, with Doughty and Martinez being great on the PP when they decide to be. And with our D prospects all being more offensive than defensive (Hickey, Voynov in particular) it would be nice to get a shut down man like Schenn.

This probably won't happen, of course. I'm just curious as to whether you think doing something like this would be a good move. I'd personally hesitate because JJ was much better at the start of the season both offensively and defensively so I'd want to look into that a bit more.

Fun little side question: What would you want Toronto to add?

Anyways, discuss/flame away

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05-01-2011, 05:30 PM
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Scrivezina
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Since we're being unrealistic, I'd want 2 first round draft picks as well as Luke

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05-01-2011, 05:36 PM
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The Black1963
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Why don't you go to TOR's forum and post this proposal there?

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05-01-2011, 05:39 PM
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not exactly something i would want to happen. outside of jack we only have 1 experienced dman who an produce some offense. jack started out great, then trailed off at the end of the year, true. But he also took a big step forward from last season to this season. i think its just a matter of time until jack puts together a full season. Remmeber, jacks going to be 24 next year, and theres a lot of D men who dont start getting the game until their mid 20s. The biggest factor for me in keeping JJ is that he seems to be improving and taking strides every year.

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05-01-2011, 05:42 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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I wouldn't do it. Even with his ups and downs, Jack continues to get better every year, was one of the team leaders in ice time and led the team in blocked shots. I think he has more tools that he brings to the table than Luke Schenn.

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05-01-2011, 06:07 PM
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johnjm22
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EJ got Stewart and Shattenkirk (whose better than L. Schenn). If we can't get something of similar value for JJ, I'd rather just hold on to him.

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05-01-2011, 06:13 PM
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Not a chance. Jack has shown he can play defense (which is your biggest complaint), and was one of our few productive defenseman in the playoffs.

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05-01-2011, 06:53 PM
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Nope.

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05-01-2011, 07:49 PM
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SMoneyMonkey
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Jack showed he can play defense for about half a season. And I didn't put this on Toronto's forums because I want to know what Kings fans think, not Leaf fans.

I guess what I want to find out if Kings fans think:

1. JJ can be good defensely on a regular, prolonged basis.

2. We should trade a D who is good offensively but poor defensively for one who is better defensively (though obviously not as good offensively) considering the depth we have in the Offensive D departement.

3. If:
Doughty - Mitchell
Martinez - Schenn
2 of Hickey, Voynov, Greene, Scuderi

Might be better than:
Doughty - Mitchell
Johnson - Scuderi
Martinez - Greene

4. If there's any chance Toronto would add enough to make the trade enticing (if it isn't already)

5. What the chances are that JJ becomes good defensively.

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05-01-2011, 07:53 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Lombardi talked glowingly of the fact that he has a defense with three offensive and three defensive dmen. I think we'll see Drew, Jack and Martinez around for quite a few years along with Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene.

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05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
  #11
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I'd make that trade. To me JJ's value is higher but Luke brings alot more of those intangibles like leadership, grit and heart. Also Luke would fit so well on this team personnel wise, that might not mean alot to some but to me it's huge.




Luke Schenn is Toronto's heart their fans feel about him as we do for Kyle Clifford. They'd never trade him straight up for JJ.


Last edited by bral: 05-01-2011 at 09:10 PM.
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05-01-2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMoneyMonkey View Post
I don't know if this is a fair deal or even something we should consider. I just think it'd be an interesting thing to talk about. Obviously Toronto would have to add as Schenn is an RFA and JJ is probably better. But would you consider it?
... Of course I'd consider it, but I don't think Toronto is into charity, so it's not going to happen. Schenn is already a better player defensively than Johnson, and he's a couple years younger. Of course there is Johnson's contract, which no other team would dare touch. The Kings could replace Johnson with Martinez and/or Voynov and probably not miss too much.

As a matter of fact, as Tik and I were discussing in the other thread, Johnson's minutes need to be kept lower anyway, which means Martinez will probably be the one picking up the slack.

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05-01-2011, 09:20 PM
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Muzzinga
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done

The Kings dont have anyone to replace Mitchell on the top line in a years time, Luke Schenn would be that guy. That would allow Forbort to be developed to replace Scuderi, and would allow 2 of Martinez, Hickey, Voynov to play next year

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05-01-2011, 09:23 PM
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ZJames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Of course I'd consider it, but I don't think Toronto is into charity, so it's not going to happen. Schenn is already a better player defensively than Johnson, and he's a couple years younger. Of course there is Johnson's contract, which no other team would dare touch. The Kings could replace Johnson with Martinez and/or Voynov and probably not miss too much.

As a matter of fact, as Tik and I were discussing in the other thread, Johnson's minutes need to be kept lower anyway, which means Martinez will probably be the one picking up the slack.
whats wrong with his contract? his cap hit is 4.35 mil. not bad for a guy who is a promising hockey player and is still developing

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05-01-2011, 09:40 PM
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Sign me up, no reason for Toronto to do it though.

Having Schenn and Greene to replace Scuderi and Mitchell when they move on would be ideal.

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05-01-2011, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
EJ and a first round draft choice (#11 overall) got Stewart and Shattenkirk (whose better than L. Schenn). If we can't get something of similar value for JJ, I'd rather just hold on to him.
Fixed.

The Blues added a first (# 11 overall) to get Stewart and Shattenkirk. That is a huge addition.

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05-01-2011, 09:58 PM
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DIEHARD the King fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Lombardi talked glowingly of the fact that he has a defense with three offensive and three defensive dmen. I think we'll see Drew, Jack and Martinez around for quite a few years along with Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene.
Assuming you are correct, and I think you are close, where do Hickey and Voynov fit in???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Sign me up, no reason for Toronto to do it though.

Having Schenn and Greene to replace Scuderi and Mitchell when they move on would be ideal.
I know he is a leader in the room and a warrior, but he was awful on defensive coverage in our losses against San Jose.

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05-01-2011, 10:24 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Assuming you are correct, and I think you are close, where do Hickey and Voynov fit in???
If Martinez takes major steps backwards, I guess there is a shot for Voynov or Hickey or anyone else to win over his spot, as was the case with Drewiske losing his spot on the blueline to Martinez.

I don't think there's room for any prospects in the top six as of yet, maybe as a spare defenseman as a 7th or 8th dman. The Kings will either loan Voynov to a KHL team or keep him in Manchester. I don't expect Hickey to be wearing a Kings uniform next season, so he's either trade bait or Manchester bound.

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05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
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As much as I love Johnson and think he's a solid player, I pack his bags and drive him, to pick up Schenn. Schenn is a solid, solid, solid shut down D, at his young age he is only going to get better...

In fact, I package Johnson and Moller, Johnson and Richardson, etc to get Schenn,

To entice Burke into making this trade, you expand it, Johnson, Moller, Simmonds, for Schenn and XXXX not sure what XXXX would be to be honest, I would love Kulemin here but that won't happen in that trade, closest I could find would be Darryl Boyce who crashes the net hard and is an energy player...

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05-01-2011, 11:34 PM
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johnjm22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince View Post
Fixed.

The Blues added a first (# 11 overall) to get Stewart and Shattenkirk. That is a huge addition.
The 1st is conditional (I don't know what the condition is), and is in either 2011 or 2012.

The Blues also gave Colorado a conditional 2nd round pick in 2011 or 2012.

Regardless, it's a very nice return.

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05-01-2011, 11:37 PM
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I think Johnson's value is greater than Schenn's. Toronto would have to add IMO.

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05-01-2011, 11:42 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Of course I'd consider it, but I don't think Toronto is into charity, so it's not going to happen. Schenn is already a better player defensively than Johnson, and he's a couple years younger. Of course there is Johnson's contract, which no other team would dare touch. The Kings could replace Johnson with Martinez and/or Voynov and probably not miss too much.

As a matter of fact, as Tik and I were discussing in the other thread, Johnson's minutes need to be kept lower anyway, which means Martinez will probably be the one picking up the slack.
No team would touch Jack's contract? That's nutty talk.

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05-01-2011, 11:44 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I think Johnson's value is greater than Schenn's. Toronto would have to add IMO.
I don't, I think LA would have to add. Schenn is a defensive rock, he is younger, and he brings a huge off-ice presence to the team.

Imagine Doughty and Schenn as your top pairing, that's just sick to be honest.

Then you have Martinez and Mitchell, and then you bring up whoever you think is ready, Voynov, Hickey, etc whoever wins it out of camp, and they learn next to Scuderi,

That is just gold defensively.

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05-01-2011, 11:44 PM
  #24
Ziggy Stardust
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Jack is the type of talent the Kings would regret trading prematurely. As we are all too familiar with this team's history of trading young defensemen (Larry Murphy, Garry Galley, Jay Wells, Alexei Zhitnik, Darryl Sydor), the Kings will quickly regret trading a young, swift skating and highly skilled defenseman.

As noted earlier, he's already scoring 40+ goals and led the team in blocked shots. Sure, he's struggled, but what young defenseman hasn't during the early stages of their career? Now if he continued to struggle when he's 26 or 27, it would make more sense, but not right now.

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05-02-2011, 12:02 AM
  #25
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I'd pass. I'll take the chance on JMFJ's game taking one more step next year. He's only gotten better and he could be a real star if he ever puts it all together. i wouldn't deal a talent like him until he's plateaued, and I think he's a few years from doing so.

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