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Leighton AWOL (update, post #153: suffered a wrenched back)

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Old
05-01-2011, 04:43 PM
  #251
Jray42
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holy ****.

the sides of this argument are:

1. How could you have won in spite of a goalie who allowed so few goals in this series? Obviously, if he didnt give many goals (MTL series), he was playing great. Therefore, he flyers didnt win in spite of the goalie.


2. The flyers won in spite of Michael Leighton, even though Michael didn't allow many pucks into the back of the net, it does not mean he was outstanding, or anything like this. The defense and the skill around him along with the tired small forward group of MTL combined to give the opposing team very few good oppurtunities, thus less goals onto the board. Not saying ML played bad, he didnt but we didnt win because of him. We won in spite of having the bad goaltender, whom didnt have to play well enough to win the series, if he had, he wouldve been terribly exposed. Therefore, the team played well enough to combat the bad goaltender, and we won in spite of the bad goalie, who was made into a decent one by both team's play.


If your on option 2s side, youd be correct (imo)

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05-01-2011, 05:30 PM
  #252
Slowbro
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i can't believe people still think leighton is/was/and will be a good goalie in the future.

SERIOUSLY?

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05-01-2011, 09:34 PM
  #253
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How about we break down last year's playoffs by series?

Round 1: Devils
Flyers dominated the Devils and Boucher was solid. Goaltending was a PLUS.

Round 2: Bruins
Up-and-down goaltending. Boucher's game was on the decline when he went down to injury in game 5. Game 7 win was definitely in spite of Leighton. Goaltending was a MINUS. (IMO)

Round 3: Canadiens
Flyers collectively stank in the 1 loss, but otherwise dominated the Canadiens. Goaltending was a non-factor.

Round 4: Blackhawks
Game 1 was pond hockey at its worst, and Leighton was pulled. Game 2 was better, but not a win. Leighton was also pulled in game 5, and ended up with a 3.96 GAA and an 0.876SV%. Goaltending was a MINUS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...am I not clear that Michael Leighton was always a negative factor? It was neutralized by match up, but it was always a negative for that team.

You are also focusing on a single game rather than trying to win multiple playoff series. The flyers won in spite of their goaltending last year, Brian Boucher included.
Yes, you're abundantly clear that Leighton was a negative. But if he's a negative, my take is that this has to be an active element. But enough hair-splitting. Also, you realize my 8-7 score was a hypothetical example, right?

And just an aside, I thought this article was an interesting take from the (fringe) media that probably shows the prevailing view of Leighton well into the playoffs.

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05-01-2011, 10:50 PM
  #254
Breeze 44
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I love all you armchair goaltenders here...none of you could carry that man's jock yet you feel as if you could do better than him. Frigg'in Philly fans....I love the teams but can't stand your ignorance!!

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05-01-2011, 10:53 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
I love all you armchair goaltenders here...none of you could carry that man's jock yet you feel as if you could do better than him. Frigg'in Philly fans....I love the teams but can't stand your ignorance!!
you dont have to be a professional athlete to know when someone sucks and when they don't


Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 05-02-2011 at 01:22 AM.
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05-01-2011, 11:00 PM
  #256
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Michael Leighton is the worst goaltender I have ever seen in a Flyers uniform. They'd be better off just stacking all his pads in front of the goal. That is all

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05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
  #257
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keep proving my point


Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 05-02-2011 at 01:23 AM.
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05-01-2011, 11:06 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
keep proving my point
the only one proving your point is YOU, as you are the ignorant one in this case.


Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 05-02-2011 at 01:23 AM.
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05-01-2011, 11:08 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
I love all you armchair goaltenders here...none of you could carry that man's jock yet you feel as if you could do better than him. Frigg'in Philly fans....I love the teams but can't stand your ignorance!!
I've played the position for my entire life, and coached it as well. Obviously I was never close to the NHL level, but I've played at a fairly high level and I understand what makes a good goaltender. Leighton is not a good goaltender.

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05-01-2011, 11:13 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
I've played the position for my entire life, and coached it as well. Obviously I was never close to the NHL level, but I've played at a fairly high level and I understand what makes a good goaltender. Leighton is not a good goaltender.
Exactly. He has a slow glove hand, terreible rebound control, and horrendous lateral movement. He just doesnt belong on an NHL team. He is a minor league goalie at best.

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05-01-2011, 11:34 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Exactly. He has a slow glove hand, terreible rebound control, and horrendous lateral movement. He just doesnt belong on an NHL team. He is a minor league goalie at best.
You forgot the five hole!

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Old
05-01-2011, 11:42 PM
  #262
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You forgot the five hole!
Well if I kept going my post would have been 10,000 words long

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Old
05-01-2011, 11:48 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Yes, if we won 6-5 or 7-6, bravo goalie. Patrick Roy was known for that, if Colorado put up 7 he might let in 6, but you were NOT getting 8. If Colorado put up 1, good luck getting a sniff. Roy was great because he won, period. I don't care how you win, but Leighton won. He took us to the Stanley Cup Finals. Something Nitty, Biron, Roman, Esche, etc, etc, etc were not able to do.

People make it sound like this Flyers team is just so unbelievable that we could just throw any ol' hack out there against Montreal and Boston and we win. Yet, we were down to Boston 3-0 with Boucher in net. Montreal beat MAF and Varlamov on the way to meeting us (behind two teams most believe are better than Philly). Leighton had 3 SO's against Montreal and made a number of good saves.

If people could simply give "us fanboys" the fact that Leighton deserves some credit for getting us to the finals, there would be NO DEBATE. Me, DFF, Pete, Larry and others who have defended Leighton simply do so because the folks on the other side give Leighton ALL THE BLAME FOR THE FINALS and ZERO CREDIT FOR GETTING US THERE! ****, even making the playoffs is 100% because of the Michael Leighton waiver wire claim, because he came in and took the Flyers from well out of the playoffs to back in a hunt for 4th. he gets hurt and Boucher almost took us out of the playoffs again.

I am not wishing for Leighton in the net this year. I rank Bob and Boucher ahead of Leighton. I don't want Leighton to make the team next year, I prefer we go Bob/Boucher or Vokoun/Bob.

My one and only problem with the Leighton hate is, people will not conceed that he did a good job for us last year. Despite having an excellent save percentage, GAA, W-L record, all these things mean nothing, cause I mean, look at the finals, look at the Kane goal.....forget the stats from the regular season and first two rounds, those were all because of how great the team was in front of him and how sucky the teams we were playing against. Leighton was just sitting back there stretching his legs, letting the odd puck hit him, cause anything that would have beat him would have been blocked of simply not allowed through.

Give us that and end this damn discussion. Leighton was the goalie that led us to the finals, he deserves some respect for getting us in the playoffs and taking us to the finals. He doesn't have to ever play for the Flyers again, but please don't crap all over what he did last year. I saw with my own two eyes that he played very well to get us there.
ya know I really dont know where to begin with this. Patrick Roy should not be used in the same sentance as Michael Leighton. More closer to Craig Billington. Roy's backup in Colorado.
Save percentages dont mean **** if you give up bad goals at bad times. Roman Cechmanek, JVB, Robert Esche. All had nice to look at goalie stats. But when the time came for him to make a save when his team needed it. he failed. Yes I do remember the 12 saves he had to make in game 4 against Montreal.
What about game 3? when Montreal put some pressure on him he came up small. Bottom line, in that Montreal series he was never asked to make a big save. The team in front of him totally dominated that series sans one game.

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05-02-2011, 12:20 AM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
I love all you armchair goaltenders here...none of you could carry that man's jock yet you feel as if you could do better than him.
I love posts like this. Please quote, each and every post where someone said they would do better. Leighton, for all his faults, is still a professional athlete. I would hope he would do a better job than I. Posts like this never make any sense.

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05-02-2011, 12:33 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
I love all you armchair goaltenders here...none of you could carry that man's jock yet you feel as if you could do better than him. Frigg'in Philly fans....I love the teams but can't stand your ignorance!!
yeah and you have never once critisized any of the players on the Flyers.


Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 05-02-2011 at 01:24 AM.
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05-02-2011, 01:24 AM
  #266
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Keep it civil, kids.

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05-02-2011, 01:27 AM
  #267
GoneFullHextall
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fine. next time I wont respond to comments from 12 year olds.

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05-02-2011, 09:20 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Yes, you're abundantly clear that Leighton was a negative. But if he's a negative, my take is that this has to be an active element. But enough hair-splitting. Also, you realize my 8-7 score was a hypothetical example, right?

And just an aside, I thought this article was an interesting take from the (fringe) media that probably shows the prevailing view of Leighton well into the playoffs.
Really doesn't... the SF Giants won a WS last year in spite of the fact that they were a weak hitting lineup.

Flyers manged to pull three WEAK offensive clubs in the Eastern Conf. playoffs, which reduced the demands placed on the D and goaltending. They won in spite of the fact that they were putting out two backup-level goalies there.

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05-02-2011, 09:21 AM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
I love all you armchair goaltenders here...none of you could carry that man's jock yet you feel as if you could do better than him. Frigg'in Philly fans....I love the teams but can't stand your ignorance!!
This post is beautiful. In so many ways.

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05-02-2011, 09:34 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Breeze 44 View Post
keep proving my point
Do you even know what you're arguing?

I can guarantee you that the worst player in the NBA is better than me. Does that mean that person is great for their team? Really?

Leighton was terrible for us....however, I know it wasn't his fault that he was put in there. Our management should have known better. I can't blame him for wanting a shot at playing, but I can blame our management for playing him in situations that were well over his head.

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05-02-2011, 09:52 AM
  #271
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I kinda feel this "in spite" argument is all about semantics.

Let us just agree that goaltending and the 3rd pairing was the weakest link on the team, and the Flyer managed to win with those weaknesses.

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05-02-2011, 10:59 AM
  #272
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1) Leighton has a bad back

2) Leighton is not an NHL goaltender..not even a backup now

3) Leighton just outright sucks..case and thread closed!

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05-02-2011, 05:03 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jray42 View Post


2. The flyers won in spite of Michael Leighton, even though Michael didn't allow many pucks into the back of the net, it does not mean he was outstanding, or anything like this. The defense and the skill around him along with the tired small forward group of MTL combined to give the opposing team very few good oppurtunities, thus less goals onto the board. Not saying ML played bad, he didnt but we didnt win because of him. We won in spite of having the bad goaltender, whom didnt have to play well enough to win the series, if he had, he wouldve been terribly exposed. Therefore, the team played well enough to combat the bad goaltender, and we won in spite of the bad goalie, who was made into a decent one by both team's play.


If your on option 2s side, youd be correct (imo)
Option two would be correct if you want to say "they won in spite of an assumption I am making about what could have happened in an alternate universe."

Maybe if MTL fired off 120 shots instead of 102 (he saved 100 out of 102 in the 4 wins) Leighton's inability to make any stops whatsoever would have been meant the Flyers lose in 5 games instead of winning.

It's all semantics I suppose. You're argument is that they won in spite of having a bad goaltender (true) as opposed to bad goal tending (actual performance). Bad players can have good games, good series - it's not all that unusual and you don't win in spite of them when they do.

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Old
05-02-2011, 09:48 PM
  #274
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Is Boucher related to Leighton

They both suck!

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