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Old
05-02-2011, 01:48 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I will always put more blame on the better fighter.
I hated Liddell and thought he was greatly overrated but at least you know his fights wouldn't go the distance. It didn't matter who challenged him, he was the Champ and he wanted to make a statement in ever fight.

I didn't think Shields was ready for a title bout and he proved it saturday. There is so much the guy can do. I thought it was stupid he didn't go for takedowns aggressively but every time he did "try", GSP stuffed them.

Gsp got his eye poked, so maybe that was the main factor. But I don't think it is considering he pretty much fought like he always does.


As for the posters bringing up Silva. Yea, he had his share of boring fights, but it wasn't due to his fighting style. The man seemed bored and simply have a let down. GSP on the other hand, is boring because of his style. He isn't as aggressive as he used to be at the beginning of his career and has become an overly technical fighter.
I'm not blaming GSP for anything. He is the Champ and in the end, it's only about winning.
Well reason in this case especially I blame Shields is that he blew a very big opportunity. Fighting with one eye working, that affects your timing.

He could have potentially beaten GSP if he had been more aggressive and he had plenty of time to pull it off given how early it happened. I think in this specific case especially Shields should take at least half the blame because if anything he was in an advantageous position, one which could not only have landed him the belt, but could have also allowed him to be far more aggressive even in failing to do so.

GSP didn't have to be as cautious as he was and I know it's no excuse, he's done it in the past even without the eye problem, but with the eye problem it's still no excuse but it's at least a bit more understandable. He wanted to keep the fight as fair from his side of the table as possible. Had he not been more careful maybe Shields would have been able to take him down, though I doubt it anyways because of how ineffective Shields was in general.

In the fights like the Hardy fight where we all know GSP was at a huge advantage and didn't ground and pound but chose to focus entirely on submitting Hardy which clearly wasn't working, I'd agree the fight being boring was GSP's fault.

In Koscheck two, that situation as well with the constant jabbing, though technically speaking GSP was sound, it made for a boring fight and I again blame GSP for this one. For the Shields fight I blame Shields.

I guess to me it depends on whose in the advantageous position and not capitalizing.

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05-02-2011, 06:55 PM
  #77
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Well reason in this case especially I blame Shields is that he blew a very big opportunity. Fighting with one eye working, that affects your timing.

He could have potentially beaten GSP if he had been more aggressive and he had plenty of time to pull it off given how early it happened. I think in this specific case especially Shields should take at least half the blame because if anything he was in an advantageous position, one which could not only have landed him the belt, but could have also allowed him to be far more aggressive even in failing to do so.

GSP didn't have to be as cautious as he was and I know it's no excuse, he's done it in the past even without the eye problem, but with the eye problem it's still no excuse but it's at least a bit more understandable. He wanted to keep the fight as fair from his side of the table as possible. Had he not been more careful maybe Shields would have been able to take him down, though I doubt it anyways because of how ineffective Shields was in general.

In the fights like the Hardy fight where we all know GSP was at a huge advantage and didn't ground and pound but chose to focus entirely on submitting Hardy which clearly wasn't working, I'd agree the fight being boring was GSP's fault.

In Koscheck two, that situation as well with the constant jabbing, though technically speaking GSP was sound, it made for a boring fight and I again blame GSP for this one. For the Shields fight I blame Shields.

I guess to me it depends on whose in the advantageous position and not capitalizing.
Let me ask you, if I got into a fight with GSP and he lost use of his eye again, would I be at an advantage?? Obviously, I'm no fighter, and the difference between me and Shields is incredible, but the point is that I don't think Shields was at an advantage.
Shields is simply not that good. If you were talking about Nick Diaz, I would have agreed, and I'd be almost incline to think Diaz would have beaten a one eyed GSP.
I was never impressed by Shields. I thought he was a promising young star, but not close to being ready for a title shot. So I can't possibly blame someone that I think wasn't ready for that fight to begin with.

Like I said, you can say GSP got his eye affected, but fact of the matter is, he didn't really fight any differently than his previous fights..

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05-02-2011, 07:47 PM
  #78
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GSP's goal as champion is to win, and that's all he should really aim for. I don't think he should be obligated to finish fights, that's really just a bonus. Within the rules of the UFC, winning on points is winning, and that seems to be what GSP's base plan is. If he can get a knockout or a submission, it's gravy. But he keeps to his gameplan so as not to make himself vulnerable to the opponent by venturing into a strategy he isn't ready for. I in no way think he has to change his gameplan just because people want to see knockouts. If he keeps winning, his gameplan is perfect.

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05-02-2011, 10:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So, he shot 5 times in 5rounds? Awesome. I did not see one aggressive shot. Even when he had GSP's leg, didn't one single attempt to sweep the other foot, barely saw any pressure being applied. GSP had all the time to hop on his other foot backwards and explode out. I didn't see GSP being really pressure for a takedown. If those were attempts by Shields, then it's worse than I thought.

As for Silva, you actually think White would have released the best P4P fighter in the world?? You know White talks a lot right?? Ever saw his little reality stint where he and Ortiz were supposed to fight each other?? The man only thinks about money. No matter how boring GSP or Silva are, they're probably the two fighters that bring him the most cash, he would have never released Silva, never.



I said the Championship fight was embarrassing, sorry if it wasn't clear enough, but I put the blame on GSP more than Shields, after all, he's the Champ.
As for Shields, if he still cut 20lbs the day before the fight, then he's a complete idiot. He had done the same thing when he fought Kampmann (I believe it was him) and he looked far from impressive. From his own mouth he said after the fight "if I was fighting GSP I would have lost", and when a journalist mentioned Shields cut down 20 before the fight to White, he responded by saying it was stupid. Cutting 20lbs the day before you fight one of the best P4P fighters in the World and the WW Champ? Nice...Real serious dedication there..

Shields is a great fighter and GSP has a tendency of making fighters look like beginners, but like I previously mentioned a while ago, he wasn't ready for contention. Another fight would have served him well. The UFC just had nobody else on the depth chart.



Right, because MMA=UFC.
I actually found the last strikeforce event very entertaining, but that's not MMA I guess..

As for the Couture fight, like I said, a kick takes place during 1sec, that's not how I judge a fight in terms of entertainment value. It was very boring before that.

I'm also not talking about the prelims, most of the action you're talking about took place there.
But hey, if you enjoyed it, all the power to you! There is no right or wrong here, if you were entertained then it's great. Personally, I found it boring.
He didn't cut 20 lbs over night for the GSP fight, I'm not sure what you're on about there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I will always put more blame on the better fighter.
I hated Liddell and thought he was greatly overrated but at least you know his fights wouldn't go the distance. It didn't matter who challenged him, he was the Champ and he wanted to make a statement in ever fight.

I didn't think Shields was ready for a title bout and he proved it saturday. There is so much the guy can do. I thought it was stupid he didn't go for takedowns aggressively but every time he did "try", GSP stuffed them.

Gsp got his eye poked, so maybe that was the main factor. But I don't think it is considering he pretty much fought like he always does.



As for the posters bringing up Silva. Yea, he had his share of boring fights, but it wasn't due to his fighting style. The man seemed bored and simply have a let down. GSP on the other hand, is boring because of his style. He isn't as aggressive as he used to be at the beginning of his career and has become an overly technical fighter.
I'm not blaming GSP for anything. He is the Champ and in the end, it's only about winning.
Blame for what exactly, quietly owning a very very good fighter in every aspect of fighting? GSP fought a very smart fight. I'm not disappointed by this at all and to claim this is why Silva is P4P champ is ridiculous.

As for you thinking it was stupid for him not to try for the takedowns, to me this is just a total lack of understanding on your part. He did try several times and realized it wasn't gonna happen. He even asked his corner it was time to pull guard. I'm beginning to wonder if you're even a fan of MMA. He wanted to take GSP down, trust me, but it's easier said than done.

Silva was def boring because of his style, 3 or 4 fights in a row he was completely unwilling to engage with his opponents. I also think Silva has holes in his game that GSP just doesn't have. His take down defense for sure isn't great. If GSP makes the jump, he would be a nightmare for AS. I think he would kick his ass with GnP.

BTW shields a promising young star who wasn't ready? hahaha.

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05-03-2011, 12:43 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
He didn't cut 20 lbs over night for the GSP fight, I'm not sure what you're on about there.
I thought that's what you had said, someone else corrected me and pointed out you were talking about his previous fight.

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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Blame for what exactly, quietly owning a very very good fighter in every aspect of fighting? GSP fought a very smart fight. I'm not disappointed by this at all and to claim this is why Silva is P4P champ is ridiculous.

As for you thinking it was stupid for him not to try for the takedowns, to me this is just a total lack of understanding on your part. He did try several times and realized it wasn't gonna happen. He even asked his corner it was time to pull guard. I'm beginning to wonder if you're even a fan of MMA. He wanted to take GSP down, trust me, but it's easier said than done.
I'm not really going to argue with you about this. If you found the fight entertaining, then hey, good for you. I found it boring, and so did my friends who all do MMA. Matter of fact, two of my buddies train with Firas, GSP's trainer, and one of them already practiced with GSP himself. But hey, they probably don't know jack too.

You say you're beginning to wonder if I'm even a fan of MMA, well, did I ever say he flat out did not want to take him down? I said, he barely made an effort to do so, for whatever reasons (confidence, gameplan, injury, etc..) . I would expect someone that is as poor on the stand up and so great on the ground would try to shoot more aggressively, more often, but hey, I guess going for it 4-5times(which averages down to 1/5minutes ; once a round) is enough for you. It isn't for me.

As for Silva, he's the best P4P because he hasn't lost since 2004 (obviously not counting the loss in 06 where he got DQed for an illegal kick). Since then, only two of his fights went to a decision, out of 16, and 11 of those are title defenses. He's dominated fighters, completely, he's beat up some of them, he was taken down by some and managed to submit them off his back, he's come back to pull victories he might not have earned, he fought and dominated both Irvin and Hendo at 205, he's done it all and that's why he's the best P4P.
Since winning his belt back, GSP has had 6 title defenses, 5 of them went to decisions. The one time it didn't, it was a corner stoppage before the last round.
I don't even think it's debatable really, Silva is the best P4P, miles ahead.

I'm not taking anything away from GSP, he's my 2nd favorite fighter actually , but I found that fight to be boring. If you enjoyed it, then good for you.

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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Silva was def boring because of his style, 3 or 4 fights in a row he was completely unwilling to engage with his opponents. I also think Silva has holes in his game that GSP just doesn't have. His take down defense for sure isn't great. If GSP makes the jump, he would be a nightmare for AS. I think he would kick his ass with GnP.
The reason why Silva's takedown defense isn't so great is because he can submit guys off his back. Might not be the smartest thing, as was shown in the Sonnen fight, but it did lead to him winning anyways, because he is so, so dangerous, at all times, which is the mark of a true ultimate champion imo.
I strongly doubt GSP will go up to 185. He doesn't want to go up, he said it himself, going up to 185 would mean changing his whole career. He'd lose a lot of his speed which is arguably his strongest quality. A loss of speed and flexibility, I'm sure that's why he isn't too keen on making the jump. I strongly doubt he would beat Silva, not at 185, I would be quite surprised actually. His only chance would be to turn it into a complete wrestling match, like Sonnen (or should I say Steroid boy) did, which would make for another very boring fight.
I don't think you really put much thought into a A.Silva vs GSP fight really. Quite unrealistic to think GSP, who's been a less dominating Champion in his own category than A.Silva has in his, would add 15 more lbs, and not only win the fight but be a Nightmare to the point of kicking A.Silva's ass.

In the end, I don't think we'll ever get a chance to see that fight. I doubt GSP decides to make the jump to that weight class, and I think that's a smart decision from him.

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BTW shields a promising young star who wasn't ready? hahaha.
Yes, *young*, for the UFC, not with age or experience. Perhaps I should have said a promising new star to the UFC. I don't think he was ready for a title fight just yet, and after the fight, it was clear to me that my thought was spot on. I felt a match up vs Nick Diaz would be better, and you can go back in previous UFC threads that date quite a few months back where I said this. Now that Strikeforce was acquired by the UFC, it seems White is trying to make that fight happen, which also further backs up my thought that GSP vs Silva just won't happen, at least not yet.

But hey, I don't even understand how MMA works, so what do I know. I guess time will tell.


Last edited by Kriss E: 05-03-2011 at 12:50 AM.
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05-03-2011, 05:53 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I thought that's what you had said, someone else corrected me and pointed out you were talking about his previous fight.



I'm not really going to argue with you about this. If you found the fight entertaining, then hey, good for you. I found it boring, and so did my friends who all do MMA. Matter of fact, two of my buddies train with Firas, GSP's trainer, and one of them already practiced with GSP himself. But hey, they probably don't know jack too.

You say you're beginning to wonder if I'm even a fan of MMA, well, did I ever say he flat out did not want to take him down? I said, he barely made an effort to do so, for whatever reasons (confidence, gameplan, injury, etc..) . I would expect someone that is as poor on the stand up and so great on the ground would try to shoot more aggressively, more often, but hey, I guess going for it 4-5times(which averages down to 1/5minutes ; once a round) is enough for you. It isn't for me.

As for Silva, he's the best P4P because he hasn't lost since 2004 (obviously not counting the loss in 06 where he got DQed for an illegal kick). Since then, only two of his fights went to a decision, out of 16, and 11 of those are title defenses. He's dominated fighters, completely, he's beat up some of them, he was taken down by some and managed to submit them off his back, he's come back to pull victories he might not have earned, he fought and dominated both Irvin and Hendo at 205, he's done it all and that's why he's the best P4P.
Since winning his belt back, GSP has had 6 title defenses, 5 of them went to decisions. The one time it didn't, it was a corner stoppage before the last round.
I don't even think it's debatable really, Silva is the best P4P, miles ahead.

I'm not taking anything away from GSP, he's my 2nd favorite fighter actually , but I found that fight to be boring. If you enjoyed it, then good for you.


The reason why Silva's takedown defense isn't so great is because he can submit guys off his back. Might not be the smartest thing, as was shown in the Sonnen fight, but it did lead to him winning anyways, because he is so, so dangerous, at all times, which is the mark of a true ultimate champion imo.
I strongly doubt GSP will go up to 185. He doesn't want to go up, he said it himself, going up to 185 would mean changing his whole career. He'd lose a lot of his speed which is arguably his strongest quality. A loss of speed and flexibility, I'm sure that's why he isn't too keen on making the jump. I strongly doubt he would beat Silva, not at 185, I would be quite surprised actually. His only chance would be to turn it into a complete wrestling match, like Sonnen (or should I say Steroid boy) did, which would make for another very boring fight.
I don't think you really put much thought into a A.Silva vs GSP fight really. Quite unrealistic to think GSP, who's been a less dominating Champion in his own category than A.Silva has in his, would add 15 more lbs, and not only win the fight but be a Nightmare to the point of kicking A.Silva's ass.

In the end, I don't think we'll ever get a chance to see that fight. I doubt GSP decides to make the jump to that weight class, and I think that's a smart decision from him.



Yes, *young*, for the UFC, not with age or experience. Perhaps I should have said a promising new star to the UFC. I don't think he was ready for a title fight just yet, and after the fight, it was clear to me that my thought was spot on. I felt a match up vs Nick Diaz would be better, and you can go back in previous UFC threads that date quite a few months back where I said this. Now that Strikeforce was acquired by the UFC, it seems White is trying to make that fight happen, which also further backs up my thought that GSP vs Silva just won't happen, at least not yet.

But hey, I don't even understand how MMA works, so what do I know. I guess time will tell.
You're right you don't. You basically have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore. It seems you do so even when you have a very limited knowledge. I know, I know, all your friends are fighters ect, lol. Sure.

AS is not miles ahead of GSP, he has holes GSP doesn't have and if GSP takes his time to put on the weight properly, he will beat the piss out of him, being flashy has nothing to do with skill. Mayweather is at least twice the boxer pacquiao is, but all the hype is always for Pacquiao. I'm not gonna address the rest of your post because it's a bunch bla bla bla.

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05-03-2011, 09:17 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Let me ask you, if I got into a fight with GSP and he lost use of his eye again, would I be at an advantage?? Obviously, I'm no fighter, and the difference between me and Shields is incredible, but the point is that I don't think Shields was at an advantage.
Shields is simply not that good. If you were talking about Nick Diaz, I would have agreed, and I'd be almost incline to think Diaz would have beaten a one eyed GSP.
I was never impressed by Shields. I thought he was a promising young star, but not close to being ready for a title shot. So I can't possibly blame someone that I think wasn't ready for that fight to begin with.

Like I said, you can say GSP got his eye affected, but fact of the matter is, he didn't really fight any differently than his previous fights..
That isn't the point though, who the fighter is really isn't relevant in this circumstance, though I don't disagree about Shields. The point is you're in a title fight as the opponent and the defending champ has lost vision in one eye 2 rounds in. No matter which way you want to look at it, it puts you in a more advantageous position than you were in a minute prior and should be treated as such. Shields who is the guy apparently trying to win the belt didn't even so much as try to take advantage of this clear as day opportunity.

I don't care if it were Shields, Diaz or anyone, it gives you an advantage. Some might say when fighting GSP unless he's completely blind and has a bum knee you're almost never in an advantageous position, and I would probably not disagree, but you still have to accept that it's a far better position than facing a fully functional GSP.

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Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
GSP's goal as champion is to win, and that's all he should really aim for. I don't think he should be obligated to finish fights, that's really just a bonus. Within the rules of the UFC, winning on points is winning, and that seems to be what GSP's base plan is. If he can get a knockout or a submission, it's gravy. But he keeps to his gameplan so as not to make himself vulnerable to the opponent by venturing into a strategy he isn't ready for. I in no way think he has to change his gameplan just because people want to see knockouts. If he keeps winning, his gameplan is perfect.
Which in reality is ultimately what MMA is all about. Sure the KO's and all that are great, but it's about the technique. How one can become so good at martial arts that they can basically do this in a fight, it's incredible when you really think about it. He isn't facing guys off the street these are people who train year round and have won against other solid opponents too, even if the division is weak they're still at the top of their game in that weight class.

Sure a submission would be nice, but ultimately nobody would want to see GSP down a dark alley, because they know he's tactful.

It doesn't make for much excitement but if you truly do love martial arts it's pretty cool. The defensive aspects of the arts have always interested me a lot.

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You're right you don't. You basically have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore. It seems you do so even when you have a very limited knowledge. I know, I know, all your friends are fighters ect, lol. Sure.

AS is not miles ahead of GSP, he has holes GSP doesn't have and if GSP takes his time to put on the weight properly, he will beat the piss out of him, being flashy has nothing to do with skill. Mayweather is at least twice the boxer pacquiao is, but all the hype is always for Pacquiao. I'm not gonna address the rest of your post because it's a bunch bla bla bla.
Didn't the last UFC thread turn into some pissing war between you two also? We get it, you're both MMA experts

PS: I'd be willing to bet AS would beat GSP's silly ass all over the ring at 185. It would be GSP vs Penn over again only now GSP would be Penn. Obviously it would be a closer fight but I just don't see GSP especially with how he's fought as of late, using those holes to his advantage. I think Silva is no slouch and he'd be smart enough to have a solid game play for GSP. I'm not saying it couldn't go either way, but I do think Silva would win and it could even be a faster win than people would expect.


Last edited by neofury*: 05-03-2011 at 09:29 AM.
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05-03-2011, 09:22 AM
  #83
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That isn't the point though, who the fighter is really isn't relevant in this circumstance, though I don't disagree about Shields. The point is you're in a title fight as the opponent and the defending champ has lost vision in one eye 2 rounds in. No matter which way you want to look at it, it puts you in a more advantageous position than you were in a minute prior and should be treated as such. Shields who is the guy apparently trying to win the belt didn't even so much as try to take advantage of this clear as day opportunity.

I don't care if it were Shields, Diaz or anyone, it gives you an advantage. Some might say when fighting GSP unless he's completely blind and has a bum knee you're almost never in an advantageous position, and I would probably not disagree, but you still have to accept that it's a far better position than facing a fully functional GSP.
I agree with what you're saying, but my personal guess is that Shields never realized that GSP couldn't see from one eye.

The refs didn't know (Yves Lavigne said that if they knew the fight would've been stopped), and I think that because GSP was so careful not to leave any hole in his defense Shields just didn't realize, or not until very late anyway, that he had an eye that was out. He didn't know that he had that advantage. That being said, if he DID actually pressure more and tried to take the fight from GSP he might've noticed, but because GSP controlled him so well in the first 2 rounds and managed to hit him with a few very hard shots, Shields was very tentative for the rest and never really took any chance. Too bad for him.

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05-03-2011, 10:44 AM
  #84
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I agree with what you're saying, but my personal guess is that Shields never realized that GSP couldn't see from one eye.

The refs didn't know (Yves Lavigne said that if they knew the fight would've been stopped), and I think that because GSP was so careful not to leave any hole in his defense Shields just didn't realize, or not until very late anyway, that he had an eye that was out. He didn't know that he had that advantage. That being said, if he DID actually pressure more and tried to take the fight from GSP he might've noticed, but because GSP controlled him so well in the first 2 rounds and managed to hit him with a few very hard shots, Shields was very tentative for the rest and never really took any chance. Too bad for him.
You could be right. Reason I figured Shields knew is because at the end of the round GSP turned away from Shields (still pretty close) and said "my eye". Plus Shields was the one who hit him in the eye

For sure though it is possible that he didn't hear/notice. What I actually figured was that they have people watching it on TV's in the press box who tell them stuff through an ear piece? Figured it would be kind of like hockey in that regard (Muller)

If there isn't then there should be, any information can often help and people who can see from a better angle (TV) might see something a coach isn't seeing. Of course, it isn't a big rink like in hockey but I figured it would probably be the case that they have somebody up top giving the coaches information.

That being said, you might be right, Shields seemed to land more hits as the fight went on, but for him to not realize for so long... wow lol. I definitely think he should've shot for the take down more often and people who say 1 per round was enough, I disagree given that it was a Jake Shields fight. If it was Chuck (hypothetical random example) obviously I'd understand not shooting for the take down, but BJJ is Jake's bread a butter. Plus there was a time or two he caught GSP leg and he didn't take him down.

He seemed far too intimidated. I agree with people saying 2nd fight in the UFC should not have been GSP. They should have made him fight at least another 2-3 people, why because then he'd have faced stiff competition of different types prior to GSP and maybe would've been more confident.

Second fight in the UFC against GSP after a less than average first fight victory... kind of sketch.

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05-03-2011, 11:34 AM
  #85
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Since then, only two of his fights went to a decision, out of 16, and 11 of those are title defenses. He's dominated fighters, completely, he's beat up some of them, he was taken down by some and managed to submit them off his back, he's come back to pull victories he might not have earned, he fought and dominated both Irvin and Hendo at 205, he's done it all and that's why he's the best P4P.
Silva never fought Henderson at 205 by the way, it was for the 185 title.

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05-03-2011, 12:19 PM
  #86
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You're right you don't. You basically have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore. It seems you do so even when you have a very limited knowledge. I know, I know, all your friends are fighters ect, lol. Sure.

AS is not miles ahead of GSP, he has holes GSP doesn't have and if GSP takes his time to put on the weight properly, he will beat the piss out of him, being flashy has nothing to do with skill. Mayweather is at least twice the boxer pacquiao is, but all the hype is always for Pacquiao. I'm not gonna address the rest of your post because it's a bunch bla bla bla.
I really don't understand why you have to react like a 5yo. You didn't find the fight boring, fine man, good for you. Not everybody has to agree with your view of things, and if I don't it doesn't make me clueless or wtv else you want to say.
You think GSP would put on a clinic vs Silva at 185, I think it's the opposite. It doesn't mean you're clueless or wtv. I'm sure the whole MMA community would be 50-50 on this, so quit the condescending remarks, it only makes you look like a kid, which you are not.

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05-03-2011, 12:24 PM
  #87
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Silva never fought Henderson at 205 by the way, it was for the 185 title.
My bad, I was sure it was at 205.

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05-03-2011, 12:35 PM
  #88
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Kriss you have made it abundantly clear that you dislike the UFC and HATE Dana White but you still consistently discuss it only to try and drag it down. Why do you waste your time watching something you do not enjoy? Seems counter productive to having a good time.

I for one was at the event. That main event was far from boring (atleast in the building with 55,000 standing and cheering the entire time.)

As to GSP fighting the same as he always does? When's the last time you saw GSP not shoot once in a fight? I know it wouldn't make sense for him to try, but a typical GSP fight is about 1 round total on the feet and 4 rounds of looking at his back.

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05-03-2011, 12:39 PM
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Kriss you have made it abundantly clear that you dislike the UFC and HATE Dana White but you still consistently discuss it only to try and drag it down. Why do you waste your time watching something you do not enjoy? Seems counter productive to having a good time.

I for one was at the event. That main event was far from boring (atleast in the building with 55,000 standing and cheering the entire time.)

As to GSP fighting the same as he always does? When's the last time you saw GSP not shoot once in a fight? I know it wouldn't make sense for him to try, but a typical GSP fight is about 1 round total on the feet and 4 rounds of looking at his back.
I don't believe that to be necessarily true. Kriss E obviously does like MMA, he just is in the camp that feels UFC isn't always the best and he has every right to think/say that.

Just because you feel another league is better or that the UFC has taken a step back rather than forward doesn't mean you can't still enjoy it for what it is, the highest MMA league in the world.

It's much like the NHL in that respect. A lot of people aren't fans of post lockout hockey. Does that mean they should just ignore hockey entirely and stop posting about it on an internet forum? You and I both know very well half the people here and in general who are fans of hockey find the old NHL > new NHL. It doesn't stop them from watching/enjoying it, just maybe rather limits how much of it they do enjoy.

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05-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #90
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Kriss you have made it abundantly clear that you dislike the UFC and HATE Dana White but you still consistently discuss it only to try and drag it down. Why do you waste your time watching something you do not enjoy? Seems counter productive to having a good time.

I for one was at the event. That main event was far from boring (atleast in the building with 55,000 standing and cheering the entire time.)

As to GSP fighting the same as he always does? When's the last time you saw GSP not shoot once in a fight? I know it wouldn't make sense for him to try, but a typical GSP fight is about 1 round total on the feet and 4 rounds of looking at his back.
I don't dislike the UFC, I'm often disappointed because I feel they could put forth better cards and I'd rather see less PPVs of greater quality. But I also said I can never blame White for wanting to make more money.
But I sill watch it, they have the most fighters. I enjoy strikeforce as well, and Dream.

As for GSP, he fought the same way as in, not taking risks and extremely technical. Nothing wrong with that, his objective is to win. But I found it made for a boring fight, especially with Shields not taking much risk either. I'm sure I would have enjoyed it more if I was surrounded by 55000 fans too, not quite the same.
Maybe I have a problem with setting the bar too high.
All the power to you if you enjoyed it, I never once said someone was wrong to have enjoyed the fight.

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05-03-2011, 01:41 PM
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How about GSP's opponents take more risk? Instead of asking GSP, a champ leading in the fight, to take more risk, why not ask his opponent, usually trailing in the fight, to take more risk?

If I were GSP, I would have done exactly what he did. It's boring but it's smart. I'd rather be winning and boring than stupid like Chael Sonnen.


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05-03-2011, 02:16 PM
  #92
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Exactly. Is GSP expected to do jumping spinning back kicks or something when he is ahead in a fight? He is paid to win. Certainly there is an entertainment aspect to the whole thing, but that isn't GSP's job. His job is to win. He does that. Consistently. There is no "blame" for a boring fight. It is not GSP's job to entertain you. It is his job to fight. Complaining that GSP is technical is mind bottling. It is his exquisite technique that is so entertaining. Whilst you may be more entertained by other fighters, this isn't WWE, this is professional athletics. A win is a win. Competition is competition.

Strikeforce and DREAM is only more "entertaining" because the disparity of skill levels is most of the time off the charts and so you see people doing borderline retarded things that result in explosive events during a fight. The way they run/ran their business' was clearly sub par as Strikeforce is now Zuffa owned and DREAM is on its last breaths as a company.

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05-03-2011, 02:25 PM
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Strikeforce and DREAM is only more "entertaining" because the disparity of skill levels is most of the time off the charts and so you see people doing borderline retarded things that result in explosive events during a fight. The way they run/ran their business' was clearly sub par as Strikeforce is now Zuffa owned and DREAM is on its last breaths as a company.
That's very true about many situations in combat sports. Many fighters seem more exciting when they start than later on in their career, simply because their level of competition goes up a lot. People are blaming GSP to lack finishes for instance without taking into account that he often faces people that haven't been finished in many years.

It's not necessarily an excuse, but the disparity of skill level definitely has a big impact. It's a bit like how it was in the NHL a while ago too. The disparity level between star forwards and 3rd-4th liners and goalers as a whole was so big that you would see 70-80-90 goal seasons. Now that 3rd liners can keep a star forward in check for a whole game, getting to 50 goals is quite a feat. It's just a sign of sports reaching a higher level, when the competition gets higher it's much harder to dominate, or at least dominate in a spectacular fashion because elite competition will not let you get away with careless flashy moves too often.

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05-03-2011, 02:36 PM
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That's very true about many situations in combat sports. Many fighters seem more exciting when they start than later on in their career, simply because their level of competition goes up a lot. People are blaming GSP to lack finishes for instance without taking into account that he often faces people that haven't been finished in many years.

It's not necessarily an excuse, but the disparity of skill level definitely has a big impact. It's a bit like how it was in the NHL a while ago too. The disparity level between star forwards and 3rd-4th liners and goalers as a whole was so big that you would see 70-80-90 goal seasons. Now that 3rd liners can keep a star forward in check for a whole game, getting to 50 goals is quite a feat. It's just a sign of sports reaching a higher level, when the competition gets higher it's much harder to dominate, or at least dominate in a spectacular fashion because elite competition will not let you get away with careless flashy moves too often.
This is true, only thing I was commenting on is that it's Kriss E's right to enjoy the action element of the fight more than the technical element. To each their own, and I don't think other posters should get this sense of entitlement that if somebody doesn't agree with their opinion on the matter it's carte blanche to just bash the guy. The only thing people are entitled to are their opinions here. I felt he was being belittled and whether or not I agree with his opinion isn't relevant really. He has his opinion on the UFC and that's that.

It doesn't make you any more/less of an MMA fan just because you enjoy a certain aspect more/less and to just assume he's some scrub who doesn't understand MMA because he likes fighters to entertain, to me that's just crazy.

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05-03-2011, 03:07 PM
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I wasn't belittling him. I was genuinely curious why he watches it. I've been reading him talk about MMA, UFC, Dana White et. al for over two years now. I've never heard him say a good thing about a UFC event and wondered why he would invest his time in something he doesn't like.

Edit: Unless you weren't talking about me, in which case ignore.


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05-03-2011, 03:29 PM
  #96
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I wasn't belittling him. I was genuinely curious why he watches it. I've been reading him talk about MMA, UFC, Dana White et. al for over two years now. I've never heard him say a good thing about a UFC event and wondered why he would invest his time in something he doesn't like.

Edit: Unless you weren't talking about me, in which case ignore.
Wasn't talking about you really but maybe I mixed up some of the statements from you and the other poster

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05-03-2011, 04:58 PM
  #97
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That isn't the point though, who the fighter is really isn't relevant in this circumstance, though I don't disagree about Shields. The point is you're in a title fight as the opponent and the defending champ has lost vision in one eye 2 rounds in. No matter which way you want to look at it, it puts you in a more advantageous position than you were in a minute prior and should be treated as such. Shields who is the guy apparently trying to win the belt didn't even so much as try to take advantage of this clear as day opportunity.

I don't care if it were Shields, Diaz or anyone, it gives you an advantage. Some might say when fighting GSP unless he's completely blind and has a bum knee you're almost never in an advantageous position, and I would probably not disagree, but you still have to accept that it's a far better position than facing a fully functional GSP.



Which in reality is ultimately what MMA is all about. Sure the KO's and all that are great, but it's about the technique. How one can become so good at martial arts that they can basically do this in a fight, it's incredible when you really think about it. He isn't facing guys off the street these are people who train year round and have won against other solid opponents too, even if the division is weak they're still at the top of their game in that weight class.

Sure a submission would be nice, but ultimately nobody would want to see GSP down a dark alley, because they know he's tactful.

It doesn't make for much excitement but if you truly do love martial arts it's pretty cool. The defensive aspects of the arts have always interested me a lot.



Didn't the last UFC thread turn into some pissing war between you two also? We get it, you're both MMA experts

PS: I'd be willing to bet AS would beat GSP's silly ass all over the ring at 185. It would be GSP vs Penn over again only now GSP would be Penn. Obviously it would be a closer fight but I just don't see GSP especially with how he's fought as of late, using those holes to his advantage. I think Silva is no slouch and he'd be smart enough to have a solid game play for GSP. I'm not saying it couldn't go either way, but I do think Silva would win and it could even be a faster win than people would expect.
Nope, because GSP would never enter in the ring out of shape like BJ Penn. He would take a year to jump weight and do it properly. I never said Silva is a slouch, Styles make fights and GSP's style would give Silva fits. I guarantee it. GSP is no Chael Sonnen.


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05-03-2011, 05:27 PM
  #98
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Nope, because GSP would never enter in the ring out of shape like BJ Penn. He would take a year to jump weight and do it properly. I never said Silva is a slouch, Styles make fights and GSP's style would give Silva fits. I guarantee it. GSP is no Chael Sonnen.
You're right because Chael Sonnen is WAAAAY bigger.

Honestly I don't see how GSP would have any chance against Silva.

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05-03-2011, 05:34 PM
  #99
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I wasn't belittling him. I was genuinely curious why he watches it. I've been reading him talk about MMA, UFC, Dana White et. al for over two years now. I've never heard him say a good thing about a UFC event and wondered why he would invest his time in something he doesn't like.

Edit: Unless you weren't talking about me, in which case ignore.
I enjoyed the UFC back in the days more so than I do today. When you had guys like Abbott, Belfort, Ortiz, Shamrock, Rizzo, Barnett, Ricco Rodriguez, Randleman, etc, I truly enjoyed the spectacle. Maybe it's because it was simpler and a lot less main stream then it is now. Perhaps I get disappointed because I find the matches are usually way over hyped. Maybe it's also because it's been the exact same concept, without any changes, for I don't know how many years now. They don't hold tournaments and they don't make fighters fight more than once anymore.
I never watched the UFC because I wanted to see some precision technical fighting. I mean, it was great when it happened, especially back then when there was a lot more brawling going on. It was refreshing to see Royce Gracie put on a BJJ clinic in the very first UFC.

But first and foremost, I watch the UFC to be entertained and don't kid yourself on saying that isn't important. Maybe you get entertained from watching a GSP, stuff a few takedowns, cycle and mainly throw jabs for 5rounds, but I don't. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel that way, you are free to enjoy anything you please. A lot of people enjoyed watching the Titanic, I thought it was pure crap, but nobody is right or wrong. Same thing here.

I expressed my view before on why I preferred Pride. I felt they had the better fighters, I also enjoyed watching different concepts like tournaments, and I thought they had developed rules that ensured more action as well (allowing kicks and knees to the head of a downed opponent and point deduction for lack of action surely pushed fighters to be a lot more proactive during fights). If you preferred the UFC, then good for you man, nothing wrong with that.

But those times are over. I can enjoy Dream once every blue moon, and although Strikeforce can be entertaining, they don't have too many high level athlete. With the UFC signing Miller and according to White, trying to make a deal to see Diaz fight in the UFC, I'm sure it'll only be a matter of time before they bring all the better fighters in as well. The UFC has the deepest pool of talent, and no matter how boring I think GSP has been fighting, I'm always going to be interested in seeing him fight. Just like no matter how crappy the Habs will ever be, I'm always going to support them and want to watch the games.

I enjoy the sport of fighting, not because I'm a fighter myself and trying to learn new things on how to fight, but simply because I find it entertaining. Lately, personally, I've noticed that I've been less entertained, and it pretty much coincided with the downfall of Pride.

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05-03-2011, 08:41 PM
  #100
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I was disappointed that GSP didn't try the ground game at all. GSP would have tuned him. A lot of people talk about Shields' submission skills and he has 3 submissions going back to 2008.

1st - against Nick Thompson. Thompson has 7 submission losses(14 total).
2nd - against Paul Daley. Daley has 5 submission losses(10 total).
3rd - against Robbie Lawler. Lawler has 5 submission losses(7 total).

In the last 3 years Shields has only submitted people that are very susceptible to submissions with 50% or more of their losses coming by submission. The only good BJJ fighter Shields has fought in the last 3 years almost submitted him. The fighter that almost had Shield is Jason Miller, the same Miller that GSP beat the snot out of 6 years ago. I imagine Miller has evolved in the past 6 years, but I think there was far less risk that what was implied. I didn't mind much of the fight other than the fact that GSP didn't try ANY ground and pound or when he dropped Shields with the head kick he didn't attack.

Again, I get that the purpose is to win fights but GSP has stated numerous times that it's not about winning anymore it's about building his legacy. I've watched GSP fight for the last 7 years and he has fought very differently in the Hardy and Shields fight, and not for the better. I think that he went after Koscheck pretty well. I think he knew that he had Koscheck hurt and he carried him to the end out of respect.

I'm not looking for GSP to be a killer but he should go after it (the finish) when it's available, he may look at it as potentially making a mistake but not ending the fight can also be a mistake. If other fighters are dangerous the best way to neutralize them is to finish the fight and not give them the opportunity (or time) to get "lucky".

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