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Just say no to the buyouts this year

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05-03-2011, 01:56 PM
  #1
Beacon
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Just say no to the buyouts this year

So many people are calling for buyouts. But why? Drury, Wolski, and Avery are at the end of their contracts next season. If we hold them, the cap hit is gone next summer. If we buy them out, the cap hit for a into 2012-13. It will be less with a buyout, but who cares about next year? Let's have next year eat the cap and start clean in 2012-13.

It's not as if we are going anywhere in 2011-12. We will still have the money to sign Brad if we go that way, which we should not.

This team won't be ready to compete next season. We can make it lose in 7 instead of in 5, maybe it can get an upset win in the first roubd, but it certainly won't go far. At the end of the day, nobody will remember if we lost in 5 or in 6.

Why not use up all the crap and start anew next summer?

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05-03-2011, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
So many people are calling for buyouts. But why? Drury, Wolski, and Avery are at the end of their contracts next season. If we hold them, the cap hit is gone next summer. If we buy them out, the cap hit for a into 2012-13. It will be less with a buyout, but who cares about next year? Let's have next year eat the cap and start clean in 2012-13.

It's not as if we are going anywhere in 2011-12. We will still have the money to sign Brad if we go that way, which we should not.

This team won't be ready to compete next season. We can make it lose in 7 instead of in 5, maybe it can get an upset win in the first roubd, but it certainly won't go far. At the end of the day, nobody will remember if we lost in 5 or in 6.

Why not use up all the crap and start anew next summer?
lose another season of Henriks career, and be held hostage thanks to Chris Drurys contract? No thanks.

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05-03-2011, 02:02 PM
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I think best case scenario is Drury retiring, which doesn't look like it'll happen. Maybe LTIR is an option.

I wouldn't buy Avery or Wolski out. Avery is about as useless as they come nowadays but it wouldn't bother me if he's a 12th or 13th forward. Wolski can help this team with secondary scoring. Who knows, maybe a full year will be helpful for him. But it would behoove the Rangers to keep WW and see what he can give them next year

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05-03-2011, 02:02 PM
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So how exactly do we sign Richards by not buying anyone out again?

What's the argument to hold onto these players? They're not part of the future, they don't fill any significant role on this team. Time to move on.

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05-03-2011, 02:02 PM
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Pretty simple. Youre throwing away another season if youre letting Chris Drury's caphit prevent you from signing a true team need like Brad Richards.

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05-03-2011, 02:07 PM
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Why does everyone want to give up on Wolski? I understand the basis of the argument but I guess I just don't really agree. I know these are two extremly different circumstances (Boyle + Wolski) but look what a little patience did with this guy. If most of us were 'GM for the day' Boyle would have put up 20+ goals getting 3rd line minutes on a different team... Let's give the guy some time to get acclimated with the team... I'm interested to see how he looks after another off-season under torts.

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05-03-2011, 02:10 PM
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I would embrass Drury into retiring or walking away from his contract.

Guy has no pride...he is a shell of a player but still wants to collect that check.

Strip him of C, sit him every game and don't let him practice with his teammates.

I am not saying I would walk away from 7.5 million but I would have some pride.

Even Redden who was the worst signing in NHL history is thinking about forfeiting his $18 million.

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05-03-2011, 02:11 PM
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We need a legit 1st line center. If we don't buy anyone out this year and get Richards we have to wait until next year.
Best available UFA centers in 2012? Olli Jokinen & Jarret Stoll.

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05-03-2011, 02:13 PM
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Why not buy him out? cut his cap hit in half this year, and have a Boogaard-type hit next year

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05-03-2011, 02:14 PM
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We are losing another year anyway. Nothing you can do. Your logic reminds me of Stalin throwing his best units in small numbers at the invading Germans, sending bombers without the cover of fighters and doing other crazy things to prevent the Nazis from conquering territory. But the only thing Stalin achieved is that his soldiers died for no reason.

What he eventually did is have the soldiers move into a defensible position where they could concentrate in large numbers and fight back. But before fighting back, they had to give up more land to aboud losing men in unwinnable battles.

The Rangers always do what the Russians did in the summer of 1941. There is never a big picture. The focus is always on the present.

Preferring a little right now to a lot tomorrow is a sign of low IQ. For once, I would like a high IQ general manager. You would think that with such a young team, people would know thay the world won't end tomorrow. There is life beyond next year. No career except Prospal's will end by 2012.


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05-03-2011, 02:18 PM
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The argument to hold on to them should be clear to anyone who understands buyouts.

Your cap hit lasts two years instead of one. So if you let them play they are off the cap in 2012. If you buy them out, they last until 2013.

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05-03-2011, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Pretty simple. Youre throwing away another season if youre letting Chris Drury's caphit prevent you from signing a true team need like Brad Richards.
Exactly. If Drury is a Ranger next season it's a wasted season as this team will go nowhere.

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05-03-2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The argument to hold on to them should be clear to anyone who understands buyouts.

Your cap hit lasts two years instead of one. So if you let them play they are off the cap in 2012. If you buy them out, they last until 2013.
Wolski's buy out is less than 500,000 per year. Saving 3.3 million this year to sign a legit first line center is certainly worth having 500,000 of dead cap space next year. Especially since there will be no first line centers available in 2012 as UFA's.

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05-03-2011, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The argument to hold on to them should be clear to anyone who understands buyouts.

Your cap hit lasts two years instead of one. So if you let them play they are off the cap in 2012. If you buy them out, they last until 2013.
I think we know how buy outs work. It lasts two years sure, but at a fraction of the cost. We have Richards to go after, I wouldn't put it past Sather to pursue a defenseman, Dubi, Cally, Ani, Boyle, and Sauer all to resign. The argument to buy them out should be clear to anyone who understands salary caps. Although I don't think we'd buy all three guys out. Drury alone should be able to pay for all the rest.

edit: 2012 UFA class looks super saaaaaaaaad. 2013 = hello! so it's not like not having a bit extra cap in 2012 is gonna hurt us.

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05-03-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The argument to hold on to them should be clear to anyone who understands buyouts.

Your cap hit lasts two years instead of one. So if you let them play they are off the cap in 2012. If you buy them out, they last until 2013.
The buyout lasts another year, but you save more in 2011-2012 for a smaller penalty in 2012-2013. When it's a player as overpaid as Drury is, with the position the Rangers are in, and with full consideration of the lack of high end talent in next year's UFA pool, the rational economic decision is to buyout Drury. Due to Wolski's very favorable buyout formula, it's very favorable to buyout him too. Avery, I will agree, probably isn't worth the hassle of buying out. Not because he's going to contribute a lot next year, but because the savings aren't even guaranteed to be enough to replace him.

Sean Avery buyout from CapGeek.com

* 2011-12: $1,208,333
* 2012-13: $1,333,333

Note: We'd only be on the hook for 1/2 of Avery's buyout numbers.

Chris Drury buyout from CapGeek.com

* 2011-12: $3,716,667
* 2012-13: $1,666,667

Wojtek Wolski buyout from CapGeek.com

* 2011-12: $466,667
* 2012-13: $666,667

It is more than rational to buyout Drury and Wolski. It gives you the freedom to pursue a legitimate #1C that is available now for nothing but cap space. I foresee no way that this team can take a step forward this year while riding out Drury and Wolski's combined $10.85m cap space in 2011-2012. If you want to take a step forward, they must be removed. Maybe you can trade Wolski, but if not, he needs to be bought out along with Drury.

Saving our cap space til next off-season doesn't do much good if there's no first line talent available. Riding it out two years while banking on one of the 2013-2014 UFAs to actually make it to free agency also doesn't make any sense to me.

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05-03-2011, 02:32 PM
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Buying out Wolski is stupid. I'd rather hang on to a guy that has put up 50-60 points in 3 of his first 5 NHL seasons, and had 23 goals and 42 assists in 09-10.

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05-03-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Pretty simple. Youre throwing away another season if youre letting Chris Drury's caphit prevent you from signing a true team need like Brad Richards.
Lets hope Sather makes Chris Drury an offer he cant refuse and retires.

Maybe Sather will give Drury his Job. He couldnt do worse.

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05-03-2011, 02:35 PM
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If there were someone I loved in 2011, I could see the argument. If Brad were 28, I could see the argument. But he's 31. And even with Brad, this team is not going past, at most, the second round.

Have some patience. It is exactly the lack of patience that constantly costs us everything. If instead of bringing back Messier, Sather had decided to clean the house by trading away all the veterans for picks and prospects all the way when he just started, this team would not have been the disaster that it is right now.

But everyone wants the pain to be suffered in the past. As soon as someone proposes, "let's suffer now for a better future", there's outrage. And so the better future never arrives.

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05-03-2011, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Buying out Wolski is stupid. I'd rather hang on to a guy that has put up 50-60 points in 3 of his first 5 NHL seasons, and had 23 goals and 42 assists in 09-10.
Torts has no use for Wolski. That is evident. Whether you like Torts or not, he is our coach. Therefore, keeping Wolski because you think he is going to magically become a 60+ point player makes no sense when all signs point to the contrary.

What you saw this year is what you should expect from Wolski next year if he returns -- 6g and 13 assist in 37 games with the Rangers after being traded. 6g and 10 assists 36 games in Phoenix before the trade. That's a 42 point pace with the Rangers and a 36 point pace with Phoenix (prorated to 82 games).

Wolski simply doesn't fit with this team. Maybe he goes somewhere and thrives, but all the signs point to that not being NY. Paying $3.8m for what he's going to give doesn't make sense when his buyout is so affordable and there's options to get better bang for the buck.


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Old
05-03-2011, 02:46 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
If there were someone I loved in 2011, I could see the argument. If Brad were 28, I could see the argument. But he's 31. And even with Brad, this team is not going past, at most, the second round.

Have some patience. It is exactly the lack of patience that constantly costs us everything. If instead of bringing back Messier, Sather had decided to clean the house by trading away all the veterans for picks and prospects all the way when he just started, this team would not have been the disaster that it is right now.

But everyone wants the pain to be suffered in the past. As soon as someone proposes, "let's suffer now for a better future", there's outrage. And so the better future never arrives.
A player obtaining the age of 30 does not spell the end of his career. Richards' buddy St. Louis is still pretty doing well at the age of 35 (will be 36 in less than a month), eh? How about good old Pavel Datsyuk ain't too shabby at the age of 32 (will be 33 in July). How about Teemu Selanne, who is still a point per game player at the age of 40 (he'll be 41 in July).

Richards can still dominate a game at the age of 30. Maybe he slows down, maybe he doesn't, but arbitrarily not liking him because he's going to be 31 instead of 28 is a naive and narrow view. Focus on the player's performance on the ice and not the age on his stat sheet.

EDIT: Also, stating that Richards won't do anything but take us to the second round is conclusion and highly debatable. The thing about a playmaker is that they make the players around them better. This team isn't that far off if you fix the primary scoring, and even if your conclusory statements were true, the difference between a second round playoff team and an ECF or even Stanley Cup Final participant really isn't that big -- all it takes is a few lucky bounces, some timely goaltending, clutch scoring, etc. to suddenly find your "2nd round playoff team" deep in the playoffs. See, e.g. Montreal Canadians last season.

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Old
05-03-2011, 02:50 PM
  #21
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Buying out Wolski is stupid. I'd rather hang on to a guy that has put up 50-60 points in 3 of his first 5 NHL seasons, and had 23 goals and 42 assists in 09-10.
dude is 6'3 210 and has alot of talent yet people here want him bought out.

even last season when, according to many here, the guy flat out suked, he still put up 12/23/35 and a plus 6. same points as boyle got in 9 less games and less minutes played per game.

this is a guy whos averaged 18 goals and 30 assists every year for 5 years in the nhl.

anyone saying he doesnt have skills needs to take a look at what he did when he went went insane his last year playing for brampton

56 47 81 128 21 30


those are filthy numbers. and all that in 56 games.

and please notice one more thing about mr wolski. hes played 27 playoff games in his career and hes got 17 points in those games. over half a ppg in the playoffs aint bad.

yeah, lets throw him away. that makes alot of sense.

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05-03-2011, 02:51 PM
  #22
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I'm not for buying out anyone either unless you absolutely have to to sign Richards. There's no one in the free agent class outside of Richards that interests me and it would suck to have dead cap space next year when there's someone else that might interest us. All three players still can be used (Wolski as a skilled winger, could possibly be used with a Richards - Gaborik combo, Avery as a 4th line player if he can play like he did in the playoffs, Drury already said he's willing to play a lesser role and he wouldn't be bad as a 13th forward to put in for certain games and to fill in for injuries.)

While it would be ideal to get rid of all three, I just don't want that dead space for 12-13. We aren't using the cap space for anything outside of Richards so why try to create more?

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05-03-2011, 02:52 PM
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Yes, if Brad was coming without getting paid $2-3 million more per year than he deserves, he's worth taking a chance on.

But the reality is that, like all the star UFAs, he'll be massively overpaid. Again, if we were contending in the next year or two, it would be worth taking a chance on.

But under the circumstances, where we won't be able to compete for another couple of years at a minimum, where he'll be massively overpaid, where we don't know if our need in a couple of years will be a center or a wing (to replace Gaborik) or a defenseman, where he'll be 33 years old at the time, I am not willing to risk it.

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05-03-2011, 02:52 PM
  #24
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I still haven't seen a logical or convincing argument as to why they should NOT be bought out.... The WWII references were not too convincing.

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05-03-2011, 03:00 PM
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azrok22
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
dude is 6'3 210 and has alot of talent yet people here want him bought out.

even last season when, according to many here, the guy flat out suked, he still put up 12/23/35 and a plus 6. same points as boyle got in 9 less games and less minutes played per game.

this is a guy whos averaged 18 goals and 30 assists every year for 5 years in the nhl.

anyone saying he doesnt have skills needs to take a look at what he did when he went went insane his last year playing for brampton

56 47 81 128 21 30


those are filthy numbers. and all that in 56 games.

and please notice one more thing about mr wolski. hes played 27 playoff games in his career and hes got 17 points in those games. over half a ppg in the playoffs aint bad.

yeah, lets throw him away. that makes alot of sense.
Honestly, who the **** cares what he did in Brampton half a decade ago? Focus on what Wolski actually provided for the Rangers (and Phoenix this year) instead of what he was able to provide 6 freaking years ago in juniors.

Looking at stat lines and career averages is absolutely worthless. You need to be focused on what he will provide to our lineup and with our coach. Wolski has talent, but just doesn't give a ****.

Remember the icing call in the our elimination game, when he had three or four strides on the Cap defenseman, and decided to lolly-dally to the puck and was beaten? That's why Wolski received so little ice time. That's why he would receive little ice time next year. All the talent in the world doesn't matter if you don't earn your spot to actually produce. I don't deny that Wolski is one of the most talented players on this Rangers team. Unfortunately, talent alone doesn't make a good hockey player.

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