HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Just say no to the buyouts this year

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-03-2011, 04:05 PM
  #26
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Honestly, who the **** cares what he did in Brampton half a decade ago? Focus on what Wolski actually provided for the Rangers (and Phoenix this year) instead of what he was able to provide 6 freaking years ago in juniors.

Looking at stat lines and career averages is absolutely worthless. You need to be focused on what he will provide to our lineup and with our coach. Wolski has talent, but just doesn't give a ****.

Remember the icing call in the our elimination game, when he had three or four strides on the Cap defenseman, and decided to lolly-dally to the puck and was beaten? That's why Wolski received so little ice time. That's why he would receive little ice time next year. All the talent in the world doesn't matter if you don't earn your spot to actually produce. I don't deny that Wolski is one of the most talented players on this Rangers team. Unfortunately, talent alone doesn't make a good hockey player.
Have to agree... Wolski didn't play with much heart or intensity for most of the season. Did nothing to prove he's deserving of the $3.8 mil cap hit he takes up. He's not necessarily strong defensively, doesn't kill penalties, and his primary contribution is in the shoot-out....

If there's no one else to spend the cap space on, I'll give him another shot next year, but if they buy him out, I won't lose a wink of sleep over it. He's certainly not a must-have player on the roster. Even if he put up 50 points next year, he's not going to be deserving of his Qualifying Offer. Look at what Dubinsky provides to the team for what will likely be a similar cap hit, and then look at Wolski's play and his current cap hit.... Night and day.

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:11 PM
  #27
Leetch3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
We need a legit 1st line center. If we don't buy anyone out this year and get Richards we have to wait until next year.
Best available UFA centers in 2012? Olli Jokinen & Jarret Stoll.
yep its not like there is a brad richards available every summer. normally richards wouldn't be available either if dallas didn't have ownership issues most likely...

Leetch3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:18 PM
  #28
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The argument to hold on to them should be clear to anyone who understands buyouts.

Your cap hit lasts two years instead of one. So if you let them play they are off the cap in 2012. If you buy them out, they last until 2013.
I understand buyouts. I understand that we can have:

Drury @ 7.05 mil next year and 0 the year after

or

Drury @ $3,716,667 next year and $1,666,667 the year after

The total cap hit on the buyout is less, and spread over 2 years. We need a #1 center. We can't afford Brad Richards unless we buyout one of Drury or Wolski.

Who will be available in 2012 if we wait? Here's the list of UFA forwards in 2012. I'm sure some of them will be re-signed before becoming UFA.

http://www.capgeek.com/free_agents.p...F&fa_type_id=2

Who on that list should we wait for, instead of buying out Drury and signing Richards this year? Drury has no value to this team beyond taking faceoffs. Richards OTOH, would slot in as our 1st line center. He would help Gabby, improve our PP and he's pretty good on faceoffs too.

I understand the argument against buyouts, but in this case, it is the best course of action. If for some reason the Rangers don't think they can sign Richards, then we are better off keeping Drury and letting his contract expire. But I think the chances of us signing him are very good.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:25 PM
  #29
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,971
vCash: 500
I have always said I rather keep Avery and Wolski for this year then let them go next. No wasted cap space.

Mind you they have to buy out Drury, Sign Richards and the rest of the RFA's. I really don't care if all UFA's, Feds, Prospal, etc have to go. Whatever they are old.

I think the team is close with Richards

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:27 PM
  #30
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,461
vCash: 500
It would really help to get guys like Dubi and Cally locked up before July 1st so we would know where we stand cap wise before free agency starts that way we can make the call as to whether or not we wanna buy out players.

NYRFAN218 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:37 PM
  #31
beef 4 lunch
Registered User
 
beef 4 lunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 239
vCash: 500
What a ridiculous excuse for a team Sather has put together. Three buyouts to have a shot at a 31 year old guy with a concussion??!!!

Thats the plan? What a joke.

beef 4 lunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:43 PM
  #32
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
What a ridiculous excuse for a team Sather has put together. Three buyouts to have a shot at a 31 year old guy with a concussion??!!!

Thats the plan? What a joke.
What should the plan be?

We've never sucked enough to draft the elite talent that are carrying some of the other teams....

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:47 PM
  #33
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I would embrass Drury into retiring or walking away from his contract.

Guy has no pride...he is a shell of a player but still wants to collect that check.

Strip him of C, sit him every game and don't let him practice with his teammates.

I am not saying I would walk away from 7.5 million but I would have some pride.

Even Redden who was the worst signing in NHL history is thinking about forfeiting his $18 million.
Wow, I am shocked youre not a high level hockey executive with that plan.

Indeed, signing a player, giving him the years and financial terms on your own accord, and then 'embarassing' him when he doesnt live up to your expectations is the classy way to go. Players would come from far and wide to play for your franchise with that plan, Im sure.

What a blueprint!

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:48 PM
  #34
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
We are losing another year anyway. Nothing you can do. Your logic reminds me of Stalin throwing his best units in small numbers at the invading Germans, sending bombers without the cover of fighters and doing other crazy things to prevent the Nazis from conquering territory. But the only thing Stalin achieved is that his soldiers died for no reason.

What he eventually did is have the soldiers move into a defensible position where they could concentrate in large numbers and fight back. But before fighting back, they had to give up more land to aboud losing men in unwinnable battles.

The Rangers always do what the Russians did in the summer of 1941. There is never a big picture. The focus is always on the present.

Preferring a little right now to a lot tomorrow is a sign of low IQ. For once, I would like a high IQ general manager. You would think that with such a young team, people would know thay the world won't end tomorrow. There is life beyond next year. No career except Prospal's will end by 2012.
What a wonderful analogy. Clearly you have all of this in the proper perspective.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:50 PM
  #35
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Avery buyout isnt worth it.
Wolski can probably be moved to a team that needs to hit the cap floor for cheap. He's also got some skills we can work with...it SEEMS like he at least has a decent attitude about addressing any issues in his gameplay.
Drury, however, needs to be bought out so this team can move forward. It's the last of Sather's mistakes that really needs to be erased, save Boogaard who most likely won't count whether he retires or hits LTIR. Gomez is gone, Redden is buried, Roszival traded...the quicker we buyout Drury the quicker we can look to address real needs this team has.

And I like Drury. I think he was a good captain contrary to popular belief. I think he was probably only overpaid by 2 or 3 mil per year in the years he put up 60 points for us considering he played in all situations, was a veteran, and wore the C. And I still think he has something to offer an NHL team. But it's something very redundant to this team and something we can have at a younger age and a much better price.

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:52 PM
  #36
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 5,021
vCash: 500
$7m cap hit for no production or $3.6m cap hit for no production. How is there even a debate?

DutchShamrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:54 PM
  #37
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I would embrass Drury into retiring or walking away from his contract.

Guy has no pride...he is a shell of a player but still wants to collect that check.

Strip him of C, sit him every game and don't let him practice with his teammates.

I am not saying I would walk away from 7.5 million but I would have some pride.

Even Redden who was the worst signing in NHL history is thinking about forfeiting his $18 million.
1) Yeah, the guy wants to continue putting on the pads despite all the abuse his body has taken over the years. He wants to continue playing the sport he loves. What a coward. No pride. Look, Drury didn't give himself the contract, Sather did. Get a grip.

2) Where has it ever been documented that Redden is thinking about forfeiting his $18 million? The fact that he was perfectly OK with going to Hartford rather than exploring other options such as Europe, a buyout, the KHL tells me that is the exact opposite and that HE is the one with no pride. Not Drury.

3) Maybe your boy Boogaard should forfeit the $1.4 million he collected this season for playing what, 30 minutes total? Talk about terrible bang for your buck.

I don't like to get into labeling posters to be certain things, but c'mon man, you can't tell me you're not practicing all sorts of double standards here.

RangerFan10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:58 PM
  #38
beef 4 lunch
Registered User
 
beef 4 lunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What should the plan be?

We've never sucked enough to draft the elite talent that are carrying some of the other teams....
its more a commentary on the condition of the team. we are now paying players not to play for us. totally embarrassing. Redden, Wolski, Boogaard, Wolski, Avery..... millions and millions of dollars in cap space. how does this happen?

if it wasn't for an elite goalie and a few young players to step up and play way above their heads, we are a cellar dweller.

beef 4 lunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 04:59 PM
  #39
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,263
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
its more a commentary on the condition of the team. we are now paying players not to play for us. totally embarrassing. Redden, Wolski, Boogaard, Wolski, Avery..... millions and millions of dollars in cap space. how does this happen?
That's true, but don't forget some of the onus is on these players who did not play their best hockey in Ranger uniforms.... Oh well... It is what it is and the team appears to be on the upswing as far as player development goes.

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:04 PM
  #40
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,241
vCash: 500
On Drury--he's a shell of what he was. Next year he would likely be a more expensive version of Todd White. What purpose to keep him around?

Wolski--I think is more questionable. The one major thing arguing against him is Torts doesn't seem to like him. He oozes talent but he didn't fit in very well and he didn't show a lot of drive.

Avery--not sure it's worthwhile because I don't see us saving much $. The other thing is who replaces him--Dale Weise? He's a 4th line who can move up a line still if needed.

eco's bones is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:04 PM
  #41
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
its more a commentary on the condition of the team. we are now paying players not to play for us. totally embarrassing. Redden, Wolski, Boogaard, Wolski, Avery..... millions and millions of dollars in cap space. how does this happen?

if it wasn't for an elite goalie and a few young players to step up and play way above their heads, we are a cellar dweller.
You certainly have a point. But I'll just say this, Sather has been pretty good at making his mistakes virtually disappear. Sure, its sort of ridiculous and keeps this franchise stuck in nuetral in many ways.

But in my mind, its better than allowing these overpaid players to continue playing/chewing up cap space and making the team worse.

Bleed Ranger Blue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #42
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Honestly, who the **** cares what he did in Brampton half a decade ago? Focus on what Wolski actually provided for the Rangers (and Phoenix this year) instead of what he was able to provide 6 freaking years ago in juniors.

Looking at stat lines and career averages is absolutely worthless. You need to be focused on what he will provide to our lineup and with our coach. Wolski has talent, but just doesn't give a ****.

Remember the icing call in the our elimination game, when he had three or four strides on the Cap defenseman, and decided to lolly-dally to the puck and was beaten? That's why Wolski received so little ice time. That's why he would receive little ice time next year. All the talent in the world doesn't matter if you don't earn your spot to actually produce. I don't deny that Wolski is one of the most talented players on this Rangers team. Unfortunately, talent alone doesn't make a good hockey player.
while that sounds good, it really doesnt help us having a team full of 3rd liners.

my point is to illustrate that the guy is talented. nothing more. what he did in juniors means very little now, i agree but that wasnt my point. you take a simpletons view of things here and thats counter productive to reality.

the guy isnt a bum. he isnt clueless nor is he a 3rd liner. his numbers support that.

one must have skill to score goals in the nhl. we can only have so many prusts and boyles if we want to compete.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #43
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
If there were someone I loved in 2011, I could see the argument. If Brad were 28, I could see the argument. But he's 31. And even with Brad, this team is not going past, at most, the second round.

Have some patience. It is exactly the lack of patience that constantly costs us everything. If instead of bringing back Messier, Sather had decided to clean the house by trading away all the veterans for picks and prospects all the way when he just started, this team would not have been the disaster that it is right now.

But everyone wants the pain to be suffered in the past. As soon as someone proposes, "let's suffer now for a better future", there's outrage. And so the better future never arrives.
I'm inclined to agree...FOR NEXT YEAR. But Richards won't be signing a 1 year contract. You have to add pieces when you can and when they make sense. Adding him this summer improves the team and puts us closer to the goal. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will this team.

broadwayblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:18 PM
  #44
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
while that sounds good, it really doesnt help us having a team full of 3rd liners.

my point is to illustrate that the guy is talented. nothing more. what he did in juniors means very little now, i agree but that wasnt my point. you take a simpletons view of things here and thats counter productive to reality.

the guy isnt a bum. he isnt clueless nor is he a 3rd liner. his numbers support that.

one must have skill to score goals in the nhl. we can only have so many prusts and boyles if we want to compete.
His numbers in juniors and with Colorado two years ago before they dumped him like a bad habit might support it, but his numbers with the Rangers and Phoenix -- his most recent numbers -- do not support the argument that he will be a substantial offensive contributor on this team. That's even more obvious of a conclusion when you realize that Torts simply doesn't have a use for Wolski. For better or worse (and I personally side with the better), Torts is our coach. Under Torts, Wolski won't thrive.

Yes, we are in agreement that talent is needed to score goals. However, talent alone isn't enough. If it was, Pavel Brendl would be potting 30-40g for us right now. You're right that you can't have a team of nothing but Boyles and Prusts -- but the Boyle and Prusts serve a legitimate role on this team's bottom six.

They work hard enough and even contribute enough offensively to earn bottom six ice time and their paychecks. Wolski's talent alone is not enough to justify his $3.8m cap hit or top six ice time. You seem to think something is going to click for him this summer and he will figure it out. It's a possibility, but all the recent evidence and consideration of the surrounding circumstances (our team makeup/style of play + Torts) suggest that it is very unlikely.

Therefore, he shouldn't be brought back and someone with a higher likelihood of working out should be brought in. Hopefully the player is talented and gives a ****. Maybe the replacement won't be as talented as Wolski, but I'll take a slightly less talented player that gives a **** over a player as talented as Wolski who doesn't every day of the week.

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:19 PM
  #45
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
So many people are calling for buyouts. But why? Drury, Wolski, and Avery are at the end of their contracts next season. If we hold them, the cap hit is gone next summer. If we buy them out, the cap hit for a into 2012-13. It will be less with a buyout, but who cares about next year? Let's have next year eat the cap and start clean in 2012-13.

It's not as if we are going anywhere in 2011-12. We will still have the money to sign Brad if we go that way, which we should not.

This team won't be ready to compete next season. We can make it lose in 7 instead of in 5, maybe it can get an upset win in the first roubd, but it certainly won't go far. At the end of the day, nobody will remember if we lost in 5 or in 6.

Why not use up all the crap and start anew next summer?


Ok, so tell us. Who do we start anew with? You're banking on big name UFA's becoming available which is probably worse than buying out Drury and signing Richards.

We have no way of knowing who will be available in the future to start "anew" with.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:22 PM
  #46
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,543
vCash: 500
wolskis cap hit is what...4...4.5 mil next year? something like that? SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not worth that for a 40 point guy.

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:23 PM
  #47
Ail
Girardi Sucks
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia
Country: United States
Posts: 18,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
We are losing another year anyway. Nothing you can do. Your logic reminds me of Stalin throwing his best units in small numbers at the invading Germans, sending bombers without the cover of fighters and doing other crazy things to prevent the Nazis from conquering territory. But the only thing Stalin achieved is that his soldiers died for no reason.

What he eventually did is have the soldiers move into a defensible position where they could concentrate in large numbers and fight back. But before fighting back, they had to give up more land to aboud losing men in unwinnable battles.

The Rangers always do what the Russians did in the summer of 1941. There is never a big picture. The focus is always on the present.

Preferring a little right now to a lot tomorrow is a sign of low IQ. For once, I would like a high IQ general manager. You would think that with such a young team, people would know thay the world won't end tomorrow. There is life beyond next year. No career except Prospal's will end by 2012.
LOL! This could be the worst analogy I've ever read regarding hockey.

Ail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:23 PM
  #48
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
wolskis cap hit is what...4...4.5 mil next year? something like that? SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not worth that for a 40 point guy.
3.8 to be exact.

NYRFAN218 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:27 PM
  #49
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 19,226
vCash: 500
This thread...I can't even.

You can make a viable point about not wanting to sign Richards or buy out Drury but I see none of that here.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-03-2011, 05:30 PM
  #50
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
3.8 to be exact.
3.8 is his salary this year, doesnt he have to get a 10% raise or something like that when he gets qualified?

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.