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Just say no to the buyouts this year

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Old
05-03-2011, 04:32 PM
  #51
pwoz
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Just buy out Drury.

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05-03-2011, 04:33 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
3.8 is his salary this year, doesnt he have to get a 10% raise or something like that when he gets qualified?
Nope. If you make up to 660,000 it's 110 percent, up to a million it's 105 percent, and if you make over a million it's a 100 percent of the previous season's salary.

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05-03-2011, 04:33 PM
  #53
offdacrossbar
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if you subtract drury
dump gilroy
let eminger go
say bye bye to prospal
pass on mccabe
see ya christensen
maybe buyout avery

add brad richards
keep wolski
add an affordable puck moving dman via free agency
keep ftank
look for one of vtank or ktek to make the team as 7th dman.
hope like hell mdz finds himself and has a solid camp

the team looks like this

wolski richards gaby- true 1st line with size, speed and finish
dubi stepan cally- a very exciting, proven 2nd line with growl
kreider arty hagelin- speed/size/defensive awareness and skill.
ftank boyle prust- last years mvp line.

staal girardi- first pair
mcd sauer- solid defensive pair

mdz/vtank/f/a puck moving dman v. mccabe, girl roy and eminger

hank
biron

thats a huge dose of offensive improvement right there and given that the top 4 dmen will play the bulk of the minutes, one could argue an improvement on defense as well.

other than a general lack of offensive production form the blueline- unless mdz comes back strong, this is a team i could live with.

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05-03-2011, 04:38 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
3.8 is his salary this year, doesnt he have to get a 10% raise or something like that when he gets qualified?
3.8 is his official cap hit. And he sure as hell isn't worth it.

I don't care if he puts up 50-60 points, his effort and style of play is sickening.

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05-03-2011, 04:39 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if you subtract drury
dump gilroy
let eminger go
say bye bye to prospal
pass on mccabe
see ya christensen
maybe buyout avery

add brad richards
keep wolski
add an affordable puck moving dman via free agency
keep ftank
look for one of vtank or ktek to make the team as 7th dman.
hope like hell mdz finds himself and has a solid camp

the team looks like this

wolski richards gaby- true 1st line with size, speed and finish
dubi stepan cally- a very exciting, proven 2nd line with growl
kreider arty hagelin- speed/size/defensive awareness and skill.
ftank boyle prust- last years mvp line.

staal girardi- first pair
mcd sauer- solid defensive pair

mdz/vtank/f/a puck moving dman v. mccabe, girl roy and eminger

hank
biron

thats a huge dose of offensive improvement right there and given that the top 4 dmen will play the bulk of the minutes, one could argue an improvement on defense as well.

other than a general lack of offensive production form the blueline- unless mdz comes back strong, this is a team i could live with.
you're proposing dumping more than a third of our NHL lineup in one season. Sounds good in theory but c'mon. there is no way to realistically turn this team into a contender in the short term.

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05-03-2011, 04:46 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
you're proposing dumping more than a third of our NHL lineup in one season. Sounds good in theory but c'mon. there is no way to realistically turn this team into a contender in the short term.
It might not make the team a cup contender, I agree, but that scenario is perfectly reasonable.

Realisitic? Maybe not, but it is possible that could happen. The most unrealistic part is expecting Kreider and Hagelin to make the team out of camp and perform well enough to fill out the 3rd line.

Doesn't mean it couldn't happen though.

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05-03-2011, 05:03 PM
  #57
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you're right. many of those things may happen. and after a closer look, I actually agree with most of those moves..hahaha.

Its just shocking to actually see the long list of players that shouldn't be Rangers next year. I actually thought there was more to build with. but i guess i was wrong.

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05-03-2011, 05:22 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
if you subtract drury
dump gilroy
let eminger go
say bye bye to prospal
pass on mccabe
see ya christensen
maybe buyout avery

add brad richards
keep wolski
add an affordable puck moving dman via free agency
keep ftank
look for one of vtank or ktek to make the team as 7th dman.
hope like hell mdz finds himself and has a solid camp

the team looks like this

wolski richards gaby- true 1st line with size, speed and finish
dubi stepan cally- a very exciting, proven 2nd line with growl
kreider arty hagelin- speed/size/defensive awareness and skill.
ftank boyle prust- last years mvp line..
I'd swap Stepan and Arty to keep Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan together. Also, Kreider- Stepan - Hagelin would be a great 2-way, fast, smart, young, NCAA line that would definitely be a real treat to watch.

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05-03-2011, 05:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What a wonderful analogy. Clearly you have all of this in the proper perspective.

You are right. I should not have used an analogy. Clealry people who can only focus on the present won't get analogies that require a totally different set of facts to understand the underlying rule.

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05-03-2011, 06:00 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
$7m cap hit for no production or $3.6m cap hit for no production. How is there even a debate?
Because unlike the short-minded thinking that allows people to only consider the next season, some of us are focused on the fact that part of that hit will be left over for 2012-13 when the team's youth will mature and the overall team will be in much better shape to contend by acquiring a player via trade or free agency then.

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05-03-2011, 06:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The argument to hold on to them should be clear to anyone who understands buyouts.

Your cap hit lasts two years instead of one. So if you let them play they are off the cap in 2012. If you buy them out, they last until 2013.
Why buy drury and wolski out? Simple: BRAD RICHARDS IS A UFA AND WANTS TO POTENTIALLY PLAY WITH US. HE IS A NUMBER ONE CENTER. Doesn't get much simpler

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05-03-2011, 06:05 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Because unlike the short-minded thinking that allows people to only consider the next season, some of us are focused on the fact that part of that hit will be left over for 2012-13 when the team's youth will mature and the overall team will be in much better shape to contend by acquiring a player via trade or free agency then.
Ignoring my disagreement with you about our window to contend, $1.7m of lost space in 2012-2013 (when Avery is also off the cap, saving $2m) is a much smaller problem than Drury at $7m on the cap in 2011-2012.

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05-03-2011, 06:05 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Because unlike the short-minded thinking that allows people to only consider the next season, some of us are focused on the fact that part of that hit will be left over for 2012-13 when the team's youth will mature and the overall team will be in much better shape to contend by acquiring a player via trade or free agency then.
So what's the big deal about some cap hits affecting that season? All of our key RFA's will be re-signed this summer... Cap keeps going up as NHL revenues continue to be healthy.

What is your Plan A anyway? You keep criticizing what others are suggesting, but what is your plan? Other than taking the season off.

Have you acknowledged the less than desirable free agent list for the 2012 summer?

http://capgeek.com/free_agents.php?y...F&fa_type_id=2

Which players on that list present a better option than pursuing Richards this season? You mentioned a trade.... What players do you anticipate will be available to be traded for and at what price to our current depth chart?

Stepan and AA may never develop into 1st line Center material.... And on the whim that one of them does, that process make take 3-5 years of development. Rangers can't sit around crossing their fingers that certain inexperienced players will mature into crucial roles to fill big holes on our roster. Our goaltender is ready to compete now...

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05-03-2011, 06:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beef 4 lunch View Post
you're proposing dumping more than a third of our NHL lineup in one season. Sounds good in theory but c'mon. there is no way to realistically turn this team into a contender in the short term.
Granted it's a lot of turnover, but look at the players we are eliminating. Not really core components.

And with step, sauer and mcd playing so well as rooks, I'm not afraid to plug in kreider, hagelin or even a vtank or i mean even a grachev could make an appearance.

IMO, young doesn't have to mean not prepared to contribute. Getting younger isn't always a negative if you are getting younger and more talented.

An argument could be made that without step, saucer and mcd, we don't make the playoffs this year. If true, I'm not afraid to plug into the lineup more youth. Heck, dub, cally, staal and girardi are vets now.

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05-03-2011, 06:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Because unlike the short-minded thinking that allows people to only consider the next season, some of us are focused on the fact that part of that hit will be left over for 2012-13 when the team's youth will mature and the overall team will be in much better shape to contend by acquiring a player via trade or free agency then.
In the second year of the buy-outs drury's and wolski's boy-out will total a combined roughly just over 2 million dollars. I will take 2 mill. in dead weight to have drury and wolski off this team and add brad richards everyday of the week and 7 times on sunday.

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05-03-2011, 06:11 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
I'm inclined to agree...FOR NEXT YEAR. But Richards won't be signing a 1 year contract. You have to add pieces when you can and when they make sense. Adding him this summer improves the team and puts us closer to the goal. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will this team.

Except that by future years, 1) Brad will likely age and get worse; and 2) we don't know what to expect and we can't predict what our needs will be.

I am not convinced Stepan won't be a #1 center whereas Gabby will be retired. We don't know what our needs will be in 2012-13 or 2013-14.

The worst part of the shot-ranged thinking from some people here is when they are calling for the signing of an offensive defenseman. How exactly do we know that MDZ will be a bust? He may be, but is this really the time to acquire his replacement? Is this really the time to spend cap space and/or assets on a QB?

Same is true for a center. With Stepan playing so well at this age, how exactly do we know that a year from now, we'll still think that we need to pay through the nose to acquire an overpaid UFA center? Why not wait?

Almost every year there is a guy like Thornton, Heatley, Jagr, etc available relatively inexpensively through trade, certainly a better way to acquire someone this way than paying an extra several million a year and giving a few extra years to an aging UFA the long-term need for whom is questionable.

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05-03-2011, 06:11 PM
  #67
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Rangers had Todd White on the roster this season for a $1,059,812 cap hit. Buying out Avery and Wolski is a $1,070,833 cap hit in 11-12 and $1,333,333 in 12-13. Hardly cap busting numbers. Wolski has a 1/3 buyout and with Avery claimed on re-entry waivers,his buyout is a 1/3.

Torts is going to have Wolski and Avery splitting time between being a healthy scratch and playing eight minutes per game.

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05-03-2011, 06:14 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
I'd swap Stepan and Arty to keep Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan together. Also, Kreider- Stepan - Hagelin would be a great 2-way, fast, smart, young, NCAA line that would definitely be a real treat to watch.
I like that better. Agree on both lines.

One thing is for sure, there's a ton of speed and skill and inexperience on those 4 lines.

Camp is gonna be fun

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05-03-2011, 06:16 PM
  #69
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Ok, so tell us. Who do we start anew with? You're banking on big name UFA's becoming available which is probably worse than buying out Drury and signing Richards.

We have no way of knowing who will be available in the future to start "anew" with.

The lack of knowledge is not reason to act, just the opposite. We have an excellent group of young players and prospects. Let them mature another 1-2 years. Then you can acquire someone if necessary. Like I said before, there are usually players who can be acquired.

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05-03-2011, 06:17 PM
  #70
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Sigh... Pay closer attention to the facts... You're calling Richards overpaid, do you even realize his current contract was established pre-lockout?

How long do you think the Rangers should wait around for Stepan to develop into a #1 Center.... 2 years, 3 years, 4 years? What about the rest of the team? You think we're going to be able to afford the contracts of all our current players 3-4 years out from now after they've become free agents? Do you think Lundqvist is going to stick around if a couple years from now, we're still going no where in the playoffs with no certified top line and no playoff success?

The Thornton, Jagr, Heatley trades are few and far between... I can't believe you're using them to bolster your argument like these players can just fall into your lap, while claiming Brad Richards is going to be old and overpaid 1 season from now. Richards doesn't cost us anything but cap space. As long as there's no NMC's handed out during the latter years, it's no issue whatsoever....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
The lack of knowledge is not reason to act, just the opposite. We have an excellent group of young players and prospects. Let them mature another 1-2 years. Then you can acquire someone if necessary. Like I said before, there are usually players who can be acquired.
Name some hypothetical situations.... Doesn't sound very convincing. You're going to lose some of those 'excellent young players' trying to acquire these hypothetical players that might be available.

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05-03-2011, 06:28 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
Why buy drury and wolski out? Simple: BRAD RICHARDS IS A UFA AND WANTS TO POTENTIALLY PLAY WITH US. HE IS A NUMBER ONE CENTER. Doesn't get much simpler

Name one star UFA who was not massively overpaid? People here all expect that a star UFA will get signed for the same money that RFAs get signed.

Everyone here expects Brad to take $6.5 for 3-4 years. But instead of him getting a $20 million contract, watch him get a $45 million contract: more money, more years, probably a no-movement close.

Then in a couple of years, this whole board will be whining that Slats is wasting money with terrible signings. But ALL the star UFA signings are terrible.

ALL OF THEM.

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05-03-2011, 06:30 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Name one star UFA who was not massively overpaid? People here all expect that a star UFA will get signed for the same money that RFAs get signed.

Everyone here expects Brad to take $6.5 for 3-4 years. But instead of him getting a $20 million contract, watch him get a $45 million contract: more money, more years, probably a no-movement close.

Then in a couple of years, this whole board will be whining that Slats is wasting money with terrible signings. But ALL the star UFA signings are terrible.

ALL OF THEM.
Sigh, this is not even remotely accurate.

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05-03-2011, 06:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Ignoring my disagreement with you about our window to contend, $1.7m of lost space in 2012-2013 (when Avery is also off the cap, saving $2m) is a much smaller problem than Drury at $7m on the cap in 2011-2012.
So what? First off, half of Drury's hit will still be on the books in 2011-12. Second, I don't care. Next year will not allow us to succeed no matter who we sign. Unless MDZ and Step suddenly become Zubov and Oates, we ain't contending next year. So what's the difference?

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05-03-2011, 06:37 PM
  #74
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You know what, you're right... Screw Richards... We'll just trade Grachev, Horak, Werek, and all of 2012's draft picks to Chicago for Toews in the summer of 2012, and we'll be set.

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05-03-2011, 06:41 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Sigh... Pay closer attention to the facts... You're calling Richards overpaid, do you even realize his current contract was established pre-lockout?
But his next contract will not be pre-lockout. It will be the same monstrocity as all the other players who were the top UFAs in their offseason: Brian Campbell, Chris Drury, etc. That Brad is superior than Campbell, Drury, etc will just make him that much more overpaid. It's not as if Brad will get Drury money. He'll get several million more. Not only will he get more money, but as a superior player, he'll get overpaid by even more.

A $5 million player gets $7 million on the UFA market, meaning he's overpaid by $2. A $6 million player will get $8.5, meaning he's overpaid by $2.5. The better the player, the more overpaid he is on the UFA market.

Nobody ever learns from anything. Every single summer, fans expect UFAs to get RFA contracts.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
How long do you think the Rangers should wait around for Stepan to develop into a #1 Center
More than his (successful) rookie season. Again, if I thought that a #1 center brings us the Cup, I'm all for it. But it's not as if we are waiting when we could be winning. The difference between Brad and no Brad will be losing in the first round vs. losing in the second round (or maybe not even). It will not be enough to get us into the Finals, much less to win the Cup.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
The Thornton, Jagr, Heatley trades are few and far between... I can't believe you're using them to bolster your argument like these players can just fall into your lap, while claiming Brad Richards is going to be old and overpaid 1 season from now. Richards doesn't cost us anything but cap space. As long as there's no NMC's handed out during the latter years, it's no issue whatsoever....
And precisely because Richards won't cost anything but cap space, teams all around the league will be trying to get him. Do you think you are the only one smart enough to recognize that it's better to lose cap space than assets?

As for other players who might be available: 1) we may or may not need them; 2) they may become available; 3) what if Brad is not our need? Please try to focus here because everyone ignores it. What if we don't need a center? What if our need will be a wing or a defenseman? If by the time our youth matures and we are one winger away from contending, how exactly is being tied up to the overpaid Brad contract help us with the shortage of wingers?

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Name some hypothetical situations.... Doesn't sound very convincing. You're going to lose some of those 'excellent young players' trying to acquire these hypothetical players that might be available.

Ok, but at least I will be acquiring someone I know I need. Whether it's a center or a winger or a defenseman, a skilled player or a tough guy, a penalty killer or a quarterback.

Right now we are acquiring a player based on our present need... except even by filling this need, we are going nowhere. And we don't know what our future needs will be.

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