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Old
05-05-2011, 08:05 AM
  #26
gsx capsfan
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http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00008871.html

Look at GMGM's drafting history, he has progressively gotten better over the years. He has also done well at the trade deadline getting needed pieces and not selling the farm.

GMGM isn't the problem.

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:07 AM
  #27
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I lean toward keeping him but if we get to keep Mahoney, the balance shifts for me and I'd be okay With the new.

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05-05-2011, 08:17 AM
  #28
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GMGM has definitely improved over the course of time, but the 2 series wins in 14 years is pretty damning.

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05-05-2011, 08:24 AM
  #29
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by the way. the scouting budget has gotten steady investment since the jagr team was blown up. part of the reason that mcphee's early drafting stunk was he was a rookie gm. part of it was that he had a small, low budget scouting staff. low budget scouts are often inexperienced scouts.

as mcphee has grow, his inexperienced scouts have gained knowledge and experience while mcphee's budget has increased at a rate that has allowed him to keep those scouts that were improving while adding experienced scouts to the staff.

we dont talk about that much. the caps scouts see more players more often than what they did in the jagr years and it shows.

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05-05-2011, 08:25 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Just throwing a name out there....

Mark Messier...
Not sure if serious.

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:34 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
by the way. the scouting budget has gotten steady investment since the jagr team was blown up. part of the reason that mcphee's early drafting stunk was he was a rookie gm. part of it was that he had a small, low budget scouting staff. low budget scouts are often inexperienced scouts.

as mcphee has grow, his inexperienced scouts have gained knowledge and experience while mcphee's budget has increased at a rate that has allowed him to keep those scouts that were improving while adding experienced scouts to the staff.

we dont talk about that much. the caps scouts see more players more often than what they did in the jagr years and it shows.
It's still probably not one of the highest in the league. He's doing better, but it's not like they're the top spenders.

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05-05-2011, 08:36 AM
  #32
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He's on the hot-seat in my opinion. Even with excellent drafting, scouting, young player management. He has failed to address our defensive problems. We haven't had a real number-one defensive defenseman in who knows how long? Probably since Stevens. The failure of conservativeness is getting to me. Sure, don't trade the main core and top-tier prospects. But you have to be aggressive for once, look at Vancouver last off-season, trades, signings; really filling their wholes and making them a better team. Mcphee hasn't made a big trade since trading his stars for prospects and draft picks. The reliance on sub-par Hershey talent is also a little bit ridiculous to me. Stop relying on all Hershey boys who can't put their **** together to be part of this team. I'm talking about Schultz, Sloan, and arguably a few others. We have to be aggressive, instead of always penny-pinching and getting the best deal. NOT the best player that we need. Dammit, after writing this, fire his ass, and Boudreau's ass, new blood is needed. We're not going to win without making moves like Philly, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, & others. We need a make-up.

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05-05-2011, 08:45 AM
  #33
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Good grief are you people serious?

We have an entertaining team to watch, they roll in to the playoffs annually with a legitimate chance to go far. They haven't yet, true, thats hockey, there are other good teams, maybe out players need more experience, a different attitude, possibly (though I don't see it) a new coach, but to blame McPhee?

Get real, seriously, try to connect with reality.

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:49 AM
  #34
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with the parity in the league, it's all a crap shoot anyhow come playoffs. teams are separated by so little that the difference in going out and staying in is one or two players and a few bounces.

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05-05-2011, 08:52 AM
  #35
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Well in the past 5 years he has improved his drafting and incrementally improved his trades. He always seems to get good value and has gotten better...or has he?

Fact is that he has not assembled the right "mix" in the past 13 years. He seems to win individual battles for trades and drafting but he just can't get the right missing components.

I really thought this was the year. On paper it looked great. Embarrassing sweep should put his job in serious jeapardy after years and years of playoff failure.

Heads will roll I am sure and he maybe one of them.

I don't know much about Messier but people shrugging him off are forgetting the GM of the team that just beat us.

I've always like Neil Smith. Caps clearly need a culture change and a proven GM (who has won before) who will hire a proven coach and get the right mix of players.

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Old
05-05-2011, 08:56 AM
  #36
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Nice Rant Dash. Pounding on Bruce, you are eventually pounding on George. Bruce got young players to make a winner out of, Hannan, and respectable deadline adds. George's downfall may be thinking our roster players and team makeup were basically all perfect. He may be a good architect, the building looks great, but the structure itself is still shoddy.

I think George has been ensuring his own job security by selling a long slow rebuild from within that Ted has obviously bought into. And he overvalues his own picks.

I doubt he ever got one trade call for Sarge yet inks him to a 4 year deal?? Rushing to extend Poti in preseason because of 6 great playoff games? The signing of Sloan is still mind boggling. Some may question the contracts of Nick or Ovi one day. Many here didnt like the Erskine and Bradley details, could have been had cheaper or at less term. They may be right, but George needed a lot more of those types to give Bruce guys that actually bring playoff intensity.

It seems we have a lot of fat cat disease.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 05-05-2011 at 09:03 AM.
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Old
05-05-2011, 08:58 AM
  #37
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He never steps up, that's the problem for me. Never gets the player we need, just a "good" deal, and influences us to think that it was the best option out there. Pony up instead of penny-pinching. Grow some cajones.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:02 AM
  #38
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Messier's worked with Sather in a token role. That's pretty much it. He probably spends more time on MSG's post game than he does working directly with the club in their GM roles.

Yzerman spent a decent bit of time working with Holland and with Hockey Canada.


Ted's never getting in bed with a former superstar like that again after the Jordan deal blew up. you can forget it.

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05-05-2011, 09:09 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Just stop with the excuses....pro sports is about winning. After he got swept in the Finals with a team he inherited and tweaked nicely, what exactly has he done to even get CLOSE to winning a championship?

Yes he's drafted nicely for the last 5 years since he lucked into Ovy. That Ovy gift was the only thing that saved him long ago....essentially...that was his lotto ticket.

Look, I'm not sure I support he really be fired now, but I'm also not a mindless company man who can't see what's in front of my eyes...

We had a similar discussion on drafting a number of years ago on the ESPN board. The premise was that the Caps drafted well, because of larger overall numbers of 2nd and lower round picks. Even some on ESPN who knew hockey very well were not aware of this:

I compiled numbers on the Cap's drafting over a number of years, and here's what shook out:

Of some 18 - 1st round picks, 8 went on to play in the NHL for at least 2 years.

Of some 68 - 2nd round and lower picks, 16 went on to play in the NHL for at least 2 years.

Now on its face, 18 is the greater number, right? It's twice the physical number of first rounders.

But suppose you're in Atlantic City, would you rather have odds of 8 of 18, or 16 of 68? The former, of course.

And what I found as I examined the players was after you factor in the 2nd round picks, the number of players who make it into the NHL drops dramatically in each successive round.

Except for a team like the Wings, this standard is pretty much the norm for drafting. Hence the old adage that lower draft choices are a long-shot in the NHL: far, far more fail, than make it.

Now, someone (CStanton, I believe) suggested that we could write the names of 1st rounders on small papers and place them on a dart board, and a monkey throwing darts at the names could do as well as GMGM.

Was this inaccurate? No. Hilarious, yes!

The real test of a GM: acquiring previously drafted (by other organizations) talent.

And I'm sorry... but I've seen too many KritchSTIFF'S, Mironovs, Cote's, Sykora's, Kiwi's, Marshall's, etc, etc.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:21 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by dashtary View Post
He never steps up, that's the problem for me. Never gets the player we need, just a "good" deal, and influences us to think that it was the best option out there. Pony up instead of penny-pinching. Grow some cajones.
Never steps up? He got rid of Flash for a decent defenseman. The trade deadline pickups were exactly what every NHL expert was saying the Caps needed.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:25 AM
  #41
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Never steps up? He got rid of Flash for a decent defenseman. The trade deadline pickups were exactly what every NHL expert was saying the Caps needed.
My ratio/rule has always been that:

For every offenceive D man you have, you need at least 2 stay @ home types.

Adding one defenceive D man, late in the game, was never gonna get it done.

Hence the reason I told you guys many months ago: the team is built all wrong.

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05-05-2011, 09:27 AM
  #42
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Never steps up? He got rid of Flash for a decent defenseman. The trade deadline pickups were exactly what every NHL expert was saying the Caps needed.
Again..how did it work out? Ultimately the mix of the team wasn't right. Was it the players? The coach? Or the GM who assembled them all?

He wins those individual battles but always loses the war. A new general is needed IMO

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05-05-2011, 09:36 AM
  #43
Hale Dunter
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Caps clearly need a culture change and a proven GM (who has won before) who will hire a proven coach and get the right mix of players.
Just remember everyone...things can go bad as easily as good. Seemed like a great idea when Snyder canned Norville and went out and got coach after coach who "knew how to win".

Be careful what you wish for.

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05-05-2011, 09:39 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Hale Dunter View Post
Just remember everyone...things can go bad as easily as good. Seemed like a great idea when Snyder canned Norville and went out and got coach after coach who "knew how to win".

Be careful what you wish for.
And what has GMGM won? Oh yeah, the President's trophy.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:43 AM
  #45
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I don't even think his future is tied to the next coach.

What has he really bungled beyond repair?

He's put talent on the ice. Everyone in hockey feels there's talent assembled. We needed veteran leadership, he got it. Whatever the club seemed to need, he went out and got.

The club is flush with prospects, they're a young team, and frankly, there's zero chance Ted jettisons him.

Some of you guys should really see what it's like to root for a team with a bad GM. McPhee isn't the problem with this hockey team.
I respectfully disagree whole heartedly. it's rapidly approaching the 14 year mark of his tenure. his watermark is all over this team, from the coach down to the towel boy, and the team has essentially spun it's wheels when it mattered most.

i seriously question his plan, or idea, on how best to assemble a team ( players and coaches ) to compete for a cup. his "methods" have changed so much over the years it's comical. recall how, early on, he didnt see a WHL player he wouldnt draft? then it was mobile puck moving D-men at all costs, draft, trade, or waiver wire dumpster diving, now it's draft every highly skilled euro or russian his scouts can lay their eyes on.

since tampa just swept the caps under the rug, look at what theyve done post lockout, from 06/07 specifically. theyve been through 2 GMs i think, at least 4 coaches, an ownership change, countless goalies, more or less a roster blow-up, the only constants have basically been VL and frodo, and now that team is going to a place the caps havent sniffed since june of 1998.

but back to mcphee, there comes a point in sports where a player, a coach, or general manager becomes stagnant, and sometimes it's best to part ways and go in a different direction. by direction i dont mean a total overhaul, rather a different set of eyes, method, and/or plan of action.

IMO - this crushing embarrassment of a loss is the tipping point for mcphee. he stuck by boudreau, letting him do what he could, then swung for the fence with the hannan /arnott/wideman deals, but came up a little too short.

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05-05-2011, 09:46 AM
  #46
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One of George's biggest faults may be he is gun shy of pulling off a blockbuster. Parting with a testicle. No one wants to do it, but if it needs to be done to save your tail, you do it. What is his biggest blockbuster deal? I sure hope its not the fire sale.

Really, his obsession with all things Sarge, drafting him over Green, the + fiddy inspired contract etc, still tells me his plan is to have Sarge lead us to a cup in '15. And that doesnt fly, not in the new skating league that the defacto commissioner of the league has help craft. His handling of all things Sarge makes me question his geemability.

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:49 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
I respectfully disagree whole heartedly. it's rapidly approaching the 14 year mark of his tenure. his watermark is all over this team, from the coach down to the towel boy, and the team has essentially spun it's wheels when it mattered most.

i seriously question his plan, or idea, on how best to assemble a team ( players and coaches ) to compete for a cup. his "methods" have changed so much over the years it's comical. recall how, early on, he didnt see a WHL player he wouldnt draft? then it was mobile puck moving D-men at all costs, draft, trade, or waiver wire dumpster diving, now it's draft every highly skilled euro or russian his scouts can lay their eyes on.

since tampa just swept the caps under the rug, look at what theyve done post lockout, from 06/07 specifically. theyve been through 2 GMs i think, at least 4 coaches, an ownership change, countless goalies, more or less a roster blow-up, the only constants have basically been VL and frodo, and now that team is going to a place the caps havent sniffed since june of 1998.

but back to mcphee, there comes a point in sports where a player, a coach, or general manager becomes stagnant, and sometimes it's best to part ways and go in a different direction. by direction i dont mean a total overhaul, rather a different set of eyes, method, and/or plan of action.

IMO - this crushing embarrassment of a loss is the tipping point for mcphee. he stuck by boudreau, letting him do what he could, then swung for the fence with the hannan /arnott/wideman deals, but came up a little too short.
Yo, Dogs... nice to see you, and Rouse here, too.

Funny, after all these years, Stanton was proven right: a monkey throwing darts at a dartboard could do as well!

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Old
05-05-2011, 09:57 AM
  #48
BobRouse
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Originally Posted by Hale Dunter View Post
Just remember everyone...things can go bad as easily as good. Seemed like a great idea when Snyder canned Norville and went out and got coach after coach who "knew how to win".

Be careful what you wish for.
Thats a different animal in a meddling know it all owner that did that. The owner should be hands off and Ted learned that the hard way after the Jagr debacle.

And also don't forget that after Norv left we scooped up Marty and he purged house, cleared the broken salary structure and after starting 0-5 ended 8-8 and trending upwards.

This is a GM that has been in place for a long time and hasn't had any playoff success outside of his first year when he had a team of which the majority was constructed by his predecessor.

I agree with Choke. More than anything a new direction, a new set of eyes, a different approach.

When Tampa Bucs let Dungy and McKay go (b/c the constantly fluttered in the playoffs like the Caps) the brought in fresh management and won a superbowl the very next year.

Change is needed. Besides I'm not sure I would trust McPhee to hire another coach at this point.

I was getting on his bandwagon too this year. Was I ever wrong about that in hindsight. He's done some good things but overall can't seem to put it all together.

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Old
05-05-2011, 10:31 AM
  #49
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All games with Tampa were essentially 1-goal losses (except the last). 4-0 is really bad but it's not like a better coach can't do better with this roster.

So I think GMGM will stay for now and minor tweaks will be applied. Like getting rid of Schultz and Poti (hopefully). Ofc BB should be canned as well.


PS: Trading Semin could be the bigger thing than changing BB. If GMGM will do it - his job is safe for some more time. BUT! Next summer we have to decide what to do with goalies and RH d-men (Green, Carlson, Wideman). There is much place for error there. And that could be critical.

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05-05-2011, 10:56 AM
  #50
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IMO GMGM stays. Been drafting well and has been pretty decent at the trade deadline.

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