HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jim Schoenfeld on NYR plans

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-05-2011, 09:49 AM
  #76
x BEUKEBOOM x
Buuuuuuuuuuuk !
 
x BEUKEBOOM x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY Rangerville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,382
vCash: 500
Alot of replies since I posted yesterday and I just dont have the will power to address them all seperatly this morning. A couple quick points though.

Stepan vs Arty, re: shoenfeld. Arty is 22 going on 23yo in 2 weeks. Stepan is 20 going on 21 in July. Steper has more upside value and fits the description of JS's description. If arty is as bad as some think he is then how does that get us 'elite' talent in return?

McD/Girardi. I love DG, I even posted a thread last August trying to disuade the 75% of people here throwing him into every trade proposal as a 'throw in'. The guy has been legit for awhile now and has great return value. On the other hand, McD has a higher upside and IMO filled in pretty good with Staal when DG was hurt. They only played him there a few games because it hurt the team overall to break up the McD/Sauer pairing and we had a plethora of 5,6,7, guys so the most defensively responsible, Eminger, was played with Staal. As much as I like Girardi you can package him better for that elite talent and replace him from within better then trading away Dubi/Cally and trying to replace them. Any team trading an "Elite player" in a "quality for quantity" trade will want at least 1 established player in return along with the "asset" plus pick.

IMO. Given all that, I'm seeing a Stepan, Girardi, pick, & maybe a roster player to even out the cap number for the 'elite' talent.

Hopefully, if it is Stepan, we're not targeting an older player like Iginla.

FYI, I do not want to trade Stepan at all, I'd rather see both him and Arty develop together and roll the dice that were great with them down the road. But considering Hanks age and if we sign Richards obviously we cant let that go to waste and like I said Stepan is a higher risk higher reward for the trade partner then Arty is. And DG is easier to replce within our pool then Dubi/Cally.


Last edited by x BEUKEBOOM x: 05-05-2011 at 09:57 AM.
x BEUKEBOOM x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:04 AM
  #77
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I see a lot of guys here jotting down 4M salary's for Dubi+Cally, but I don't think either of them get over 3.5M(or much over that), unless they sign long-term deals (which I'll happily settle for). Some guys here were basically convinced Staal would get close to 5M, when in reality he got less than 4M.

Do you see Dubi getting Staal-$$$? I think Dubi gets about 3.675, Cally getting 3.5.
I'd prefer to lock them up for deals under $3.6MM per for 5 years each. Unfortunately we're facing a situation where both players are fan favorites, have been identified as "core" pieces by the media, and the organization; and they were our two leading scorers this year. That gives them a significant amount of leverage in negotiations -- however skewed that last stat may be due to a general lack of scoring.

I see a lot of people talking about a LW for a possible Richards / Gaborik top-line. I agree with the folks that mentioned the need for a mucker on that line; a guy who can get into the corners and win battles. Dubinsky might be the likely candidate, but I'd give Brian Boyle a shot there.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:12 AM
  #78
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,867
vCash: 500
An elite player is a special player. When I think of an "elite" player,I think of Mark Messier. He was elite player. A player who plays at a high level every year. Plays hurt. "Stays on the field". Hemsky and Burns aren't elite players. People refer to the concussion suffered by Richards as a reason to avoid him. How many injuries have Hemsky and Burns suffered? Lindros was an elite player when the Rangers acquired him but he couldn't stay on the field. Same thing with Bure. You can't compare Hemsky or Burns to those guys.

When Callahan gets his new contract,the Rangers will have $11-12M tied up in Gaborik and Callahan. Where would Hemsky fit? Just how much can be invested in another RWer?

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:14 AM
  #79
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,977
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
An elite player is a special player. When I think of an "elite" player,I think of Mark Messier. He was elite player. A player who plays at a high level every year. Plays hurt. "Stays on the field". Hemsky and Burns aren't elite players. People refer to the concussion suffered by Richards as a reason to avoid him. How many injuries have Hemsky and Burns suffered? Lindros was an elite player when the Rangers acquired him but he couldn't stay on the field. Same thing with Bure. You can't compare Hemsky or Burns to those guys.
Agreed for the most part.

But neither Lindros nor Bure couldn't "stay on the fiield" when they acquired them, so they weren't elite when they acquired them. They had been elite.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:20 AM
  #80
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,867
vCash: 500
Why are people worried about Henrik"s age? He is 29 years old. Tim Thomas is 36 years old.

Why is there such a rush to trade a center if Richards is signed? SJ has 4 good centers with Thornton,Marrleau,Pavelski and Couture. Philly has 4 good centers with Ricahrds,Carter,Briere and Giroux. Marleau plays LW and the Flyers seem to find enough icetime by alternating a center on the wing.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:24 AM
  #81
Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
 
Clowes Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Yawk
Country: United States
Posts: 12,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
We didn't have what Dallas was looking for to trade for Neal. They wanted a PPQB. We don't have one for ourselves, let alone one to spare.

And as for the LW... uhh.. Dubinsky? Hello?
I agree with you that Dubinsky is a tough guy on the LW and has scoring ability, he's Dubinksy, I don't have to explain.

But... I'd like to keep Dubinsky and Callahan together on the same line, so I wouldn't mind trading some assets for a guy like Lucic to play with Richards and Gaborik.

Clowes Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:29 AM
  #82
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,316
vCash: 500
Who is replacing Girardi? We were damn lucky last year that both Sauer and McD were able to handle top 4 minutes as rookies. But even then, both Staal and Girardi played a ton of minutes.

If you trade Girardi and slide one of Sauer or McD up to play with Staal, then who do you put on the 2nd pair? Do you really think we'll be fortunate enough that another rookie can come in and do what Sauer and McD did? And what about injuries? If Staal got hurt, what then?

The ONLY way Girardi gets traded is if we are getting a dman back who can play top 4 minutes AND provides offense. In other words, someone a whole letter better than McCabe, Eminger or Gilroy.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:32 AM
  #83
x BEUKEBOOM x
Buuuuuuuuuuuk !
 
x BEUKEBOOM x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY Rangerville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Why are people worried about Henrik"s age? He is 29 years old. Tim Thomas is 36 years old.

Why is there such a rush to trade a center if Richards is signed? SJ has 4 good centers with Thornton,Marrleau,Pavelski and Couture. Philly has 4 good centers with Ricahrds,Carter,Briere and Giroux. Marleau plays LW and the Flyers seem to find enough icetime by alternating a center on the wing.
I fully agree with your logic, but Schonfeld specifically said the org has 4-5 young 2nd/3rd line centers and one would go if something can get done.

Honestly, I have no idea who he is talking about as outside Stepan/Arty I dont see any other bonified 2nd line centers.
Horak? Yogan? both very unproven.
Boyle? Ideal 3rd line center at best.
Christensen? Garbage not a 3/4 and not consistent enought o be a serious 1/2

IMO, you go:

Richards
Stepan/Arty as interchangable 2/3 depending on the chemistry of linemates
Boyle as #4 if he can improve his faceoff percentage.

Thats a great 4 center system and you juggle the wings till it clicks.

x BEUKEBOOM x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:34 AM
  #84
mcsauer2738
Registered User
 
mcsauer2738's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
JS. "We have 4-5 good young 2nd/3rd line center ice men, 20-21yo and maybe you package one with a pick and something else to get that elite player in the final year of his contract."

God I hope he's not thinking Stepan.
sure as hell sounds like stepa or arty to me. So let me propose this, what would a deal of Stepan or arty + 1st round return?

mcsauer2738 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:52 AM
  #85
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
sure as hell sounds like stepa or arty to me. So let me propose this, what would a deal of Stepan or arty + 1st round return?
More than likely, someone who is older, costs more and whose production won't justify the trade.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:54 AM
  #86
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Who is replacing Girardi? We were damn lucky last year that both Sauer and McD were able to handle top 4 minutes as rookies. But even then, both Staal and Girardi played a ton of minutes.

If you trade Girardi and slide one of Sauer or McD up to play with Staal, then who do you put on the 2nd pair? Do you really think we'll be fortunate enough that another rookie can come in and do what Sauer and McD did? And what about injuries? If Staal got hurt, what then?

The ONLY way Girardi gets traded is if we are getting a dman back who can play top 4 minutes AND provides offense. In other words, someone a whole letter better than McCabe, Eminger or Gilroy.
People seem to think that just because a team has a younger player who might reach the potential of one of their current players, that current player becomes expendable. For example, in SJ people are saying Pavelski is expendable because of the emergence of Couture. So let me get this straight. SJ invests years into Pavelski, grooming him in their system, only to trade him away because Couture "might" be able to replace him "soon"? Does anyone else see how backwards this logic is? The idea is to stack as many good players on a team as can be, not trade one away because you have another guy that "might" be able to replace him.

We're not trading Girardi because McD "might" be able to replace him. The idea is to KEEP girardi and KEEP McD. Not to mention Girardi is on a great contract. Sheesh.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:54 AM
  #87
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,059
vCash: 500
Is Hemsky the new Penner?

Remember when Penner was the shiny new toy that so many wanted?

Pizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:55 AM
  #88
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsauer2738 View Post
sure as hell sounds like stepa or arty to me. So let me propose this, what would a deal of Stepan or arty + 1st round return?
Hemsky or Doan...

I will rage if it's another Toots for Zherdev type trade.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 10:57 AM
  #89
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
I fully agree with your logic, but Schonfeld specifically said the org has 4-5 young 2nd/3rd line centers and one would go if something can get done.

Honestly, I have no idea who he is talking about as outside Stepan/Arty I dont see any other bonified 2nd line centers.
Horak? Yogan? both very unproven.
Boyle? Ideal 3rd line center at best.
Christensen? Garbage not a 3/4 and not consistent enought o be a serious 1/2

IMO, you go:

Richards
Stepan/Arty as interchangable 2/3 depending on the chemistry of linemates
Boyle as #4 if he can improve his faceoff percentage.

Thats a great 4 center system and you juggle the wings till it clicks.
He said 2nd/3rd line centers.

Arty, Stepan, Boyle, Christensen, Drury ()

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 11:01 AM
  #90
x BEUKEBOOM x
Buuuuuuuuuuuk !
 
x BEUKEBOOM x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY Rangerville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
People seem to think that just because a team has a younger player who might reach the potential of one of their current players, that current player becomes expendable. For example, in SJ people are saying Pavelski is expendable because of the emergence of Couture. So let me get this straight. SJ invests years into Pavelski, grooming him in their system, only to trade him away because Couture "might" be able to replace him "soon"? Does anyone else see how backwards this logic is? The idea is to stack as many good players on a team as can be, not trade one away because you have another guy that "might" be able to replace him.

We're not trading Girardi because McD "might" be able to replace him. The idea is to KEEP girardi and KEEP McD. Not to mention Girardi is on a great contract. Sheesh.
All great points.

When there was no salary cap.

That line of thinking doesnt work anymore, the rules of the game have changed.

x BEUKEBOOM x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 11:41 AM
  #91
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
All great points.

When there was no salary cap.

That line of thinking doesnt work anymore, the rules of the game have changed.
Actually, you're wrong. With the cap it matters more than ever that you develop your own players and hold onto them.

In a non-cap world we could trade Anisimov and whatever for any player we wanted, no matter the cost. Now we have to consider cost vs production. Artie put up 44 points this season. I don't think 50 points next season is a stretch, and he won't make more than 2 mil. If we trade him for a 60 point player who makes twice as much, is that really worth it?

In a non-cap world, it doesn't matter, at least to the Rangers. But in a cap world you would be foolish to make that trade. 2 mil for 10 extra points? And that's not even considering other things like age, defensive play and durability.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 11:46 AM
  #92
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Why are people worried about Henrik"s age? He is 29 years old. Tim Thomas is 36 years old.

Why is there such a rush to trade a center if Richards is signed? SJ has 4 good centers with Thornton,Marrleau,Pavelski and Couture. Philly has 4 good centers with Ricahrds,Carter,Briere and Giroux. Marleau plays LW and the Flyers seem to find enough icetime by alternating a center on the wing.
When did Thomas come into the league..how old was he? When did Lundqvist come into the league...how old is he? Who's closer to a cup today?

Players don't play at the same level forever. Some fall of quicker than other. Enough said.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 11:51 AM
  #93
x BEUKEBOOM x
Buuuuuuuuuuuk !
 
x BEUKEBOOM x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY Rangerville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Actually, you're wrong. With the cap it matters more than ever that you develop your own players and hold onto them.

In a non-cap world we could trade Anisimov and whatever for any player we wanted, no matter the cost. Now we have to consider cost vs production. Artie put up 44 points this season. I don't think 50 points next season is a stretch, and he won't make more than 2 mil. If we trade him for a 60 point player who makes twice as much, is that really worth it?

In a non-cap world, it doesn't matter, at least to the Rangers. But in a cap world you would be foolish to make that trade. 2 mil for 10 extra points? And that's not even considering other things like age, defensive play and durability.
Ok Mr Contrarian.

What mythical 'elite' player are talking about that produces 60pts to win your bogus arguement.

Because I sure a ***** never said we should trade Arty, Stepan, Girardi or any of our players for a 60pt player. Your either putting words in my mouth or talking out your backside just to win an opposing view arguement. IMO Arty and Step will be 60pt players AT THE LEAST. Arty as soon as next season if his NHL growth mirrors his AHL growth.

Your argueing with my points like I'm in the trade it all for a 1 year cup crowd and you clearly did not go back and read the previous 24hrs posts. As I have clearly stated numorous times I'm not down with that, but have given solid reasoning as to what resonable moves would be if NYR Brass follow through with JIM SHOENFELDS own statement on RangerBoys youtube post.

x BEUKEBOOM x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 11:58 AM
  #94
TreeSapLlama
Registered User
 
TreeSapLlama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 713
vCash: 500
The "Player on the last year of a contract" SCREAMS Semin to be. He definitely has elite level talent. It is unfortunately his effort level that I would question, which might not be a good combination with torts. I would not hate the idea of signing Richards and trading for Semin, his value now is probably at it's lowest point (not that low).

On the other hand, I do not want the Rangers to trade Anisimov under any circumstance. I will basically guarentee that he will get 60 points next year (barring injuries, I guarentee a 60point/82 game pace at least). He is a very tradeable asset, but I really think he will be an awesome player next year.

TreeSapLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 12:03 PM
  #95
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Begins at 28 minutes

http://youtu.be/UyDIIHw-F8Q
Thanks, great find.

Torts will drive Euros out I suspect. So my avatar may follow previous. I think Hemski is not considered for the same reason.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 12:14 PM
  #96
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,316
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Ok Mr Contrarian.

What mythical 'elite' player are talking about that produces 60pts to win your bogus arguement.

Because I sure a ***** never said we should trade Arty, Stepan, Girardi or any of our players for a 60pt player. Your either putting words in my mouth or talking out your backside just to win an opposing view arguement. IMO Arty and Step will be 60pt players AT THE LEAST. Arty as soon as next season if his NHL growth mirrors his AHL growth.

Your argueing with my points like I'm in the trade it all for a 1 year cup crowd and you clearly did not go back and read the previous 24hrs posts. As I have clearly stated numorous times I'm not down with that, but have given solid reasoning as to what resonable moves would be if NYR Brass follow through with JIM SHOENFELDS own statement on RangerBoys youtube post.
I never said that you suggested trading anyone. The other poster gave an example of SJ keeping Pavelski despite having Couture, and you disagreed with him that they could/should keep both because of the salary cap.

That is what I disagreed with. Because of the cap, they are better off keeping players that provide more bang for their buck, even if the bang is less than they might get from another player in a trade.

My hypothetical 60 point player was just an example. Maybe it's an 80 point player making 3 times as much. The point is, you can't just look at the player and say, he's better, make the deal. The cost is a HUGE factor now, and players like Pavelski and Couture, or Artie and Stepan, that provide good values for low costs are extremely important.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 12:43 PM
  #97
x BEUKEBOOM x
Buuuuuuuuuuuk !
 
x BEUKEBOOM x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY Rangerville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,382
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I never said that you suggested trading anyone. The other poster gave an example of SJ keeping Pavelski despite having Couture, and you disagreed with him that they could/should keep both because of the salary cap.

That is what I disagreed with. Because of the cap, they are better off keeping players that provide more bang for their buck, even if the bang is less than they might get from another player in a trade.

My hypothetical 60 point player was just an example. Maybe it's an 80 point player making 3 times as much. The point is, you can't just look at the player and say, he's better, make the deal. The cost is a HUGE factor now, and players like Pavelski and Couture, or Artie and Stepan, that provide good values for low costs are extremely important.
Agreed.

Unfortunatly, and like Shoeny said in the vid, we cant stink for 5 years and draft a couple 80/90/100 pt players and he also pointed out how guys like that more often then not lose their edge once they cash in via FA.

So where does that leave us?

We have to trade our youthy at some point. There are just so many roster spots, we are lacking in elite scoring talent, & for the 1st time in decades we have a stocked cubord in defenceman & (talented) grinders.

I'd like to ride out Drurys contract, let our core grow & take leadership responsibilities and fill in the blanks with whats availble at that point. Hoping the established leaders at that point can kick any FA slackers in line when they take off shifts or games.

The wrench in that plan is if Richards gets signed, then obviously were looking to accelerate that plan a bit and push for a 2nd round playoff performance or better. Once again scrificing possible multi cup runs for a 1 time win.

Hopefully old habits die hard and stay dead.

x BEUKEBOOM x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:07 PM
  #98
CM PUNK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,304
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Why is there such a rush to trade a center if Richards is signed? SJ has 4 good centers with Thornton,Marrleau,Pavelski and Couture. Philly has 4 good centers with Ricahrds,Carter,Briere and Giroux. Marleau plays LW and the Flyers seem to find enough icetime by alternating a center on the wing.
i don't think anyone WANTS to trade stepan or AA. i think the ideal situation would be to sign richards and then be 4 deep down the middle with richards, anisimov, stepan and boyle. at the same point i don't want to trade away girardi or sauer or mcdonagh, etc.

but if we are looking to make a trade to bring in top end players, whether it be a top winger or a #1 dman than center and defense becomes an obvious area of depth to deal from. and to get a top player we are gonna have to give up guys that we don't want to trade.

CM PUNK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:10 PM
  #99
Lion Hound
@JoeTucc26
 
Lion Hound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
We didn't have what Dallas was looking for to trade for Neal. They wanted a PPQB. We don't have one for ourselves, let alone one to spare.

And as for the LW... uhh.. Dubinsky? Hello?
I think they had the assets to make the deal work. I think it's part of a GM's job to be an opportunistic feeder. When Neal was made available I am almost certain Sather would have known about especially with all the Richards rumors. Glen had the assets and could have structured it around MDZ. I think he missed his chance to pounce on this one.

Onto Dubi, yes I agree. Physical guy and falls into that category. But...ZERO chemistry with Gaborik while he excelled with Callahan and Anisimov. I love the idea of this line together again and to go deeper into this...If the organization is successful in securing a first line surrounding Gabby and Richards...then the second of Dubi/Ani/Cally becomes that much more valueable. I think they will asolutly give the opposition fits trying to contain them. IMO these guys in another season will be as good as any 1st line in the East as they will not hurt you defensively, but can raise hell in the offensive zone when they play on the aggressive.


Last edited by Lion Hound: 05-05-2011 at 01:22 PM.
Lion Hound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:32 PM
  #100
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,176
vCash: 500
I'd give Stepan or Arty a First and MDZ if it got us a young elite player.

Barbara Underhill is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.