HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

The Bruins Model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-03-2011, 11:21 PM
  #26
Machinehead
Brauch und Stolz
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: Germany
Posts: 33,340
vCash: 500
When the Rangers can go out and get the most physically dominant force in the NHL, then we can be the Bruins. There's only one model that can be centered around a monster.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 08:28 AM
  #27
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
When the Rangers can go out and get the most physically dominant force in the NHL, then we can be the Bruins. There's only one model that can be centered around a monster.
Physicality is going away. Its yesterday hockey. First head shots, then boarding, then late hits, then fights, then the rest. Sport needs to be sold to US consumers. That's the reality.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 05:16 PM
  #28
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Frankly I'm sick and tired of being a hard working grind it out team full of 3rd liners. I'd rather have a real top line full of lazy snipers. Dumping the puck in and forecheking all game does nothing for you if you don't have the skating and stick skills to work it into the slot and score. The Bruins only got to where they are because TT stood on his head for the entire season. We if anything need to follow the Red Wings model. But that of course requires an owner who genuinely cares about his team.
Dubinsky and Callahan still 3rd liners in your eyes? Both were on track for 60 points this season minus the time missed due to injuries, Callahan was on pace for 30 goals or so. Just because they bang, and cycle, and grind, and do most of their play below the hash marks, doesn't mean they're not suited to be Top 6 forwards. Would you prefer the Zherdev types? Who only play good hockey in small stretches, and show little heart & intensity when it matters most?

The Red Wings model right now constitutes 11 players on their roster over the age of 30. Seven of which are 35 or older. Is that really what you want?

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 09:10 PM
  #29
Machinehead
Brauch und Stolz
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: Germany
Posts: 33,340
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Physicality is going away. Its yesterday hockey. First head shots, then boarding, then late hits, then fights, then the rest. Sport needs to be sold to US consumers. That's the reality.
The people who watch NASCAR because they like the crashes and the NFL which is by far the most violent legal activity known to man? Way to go Bettman!

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 09:35 PM
  #30
Dojji*
Fight the Hate
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 16,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Thats more about Claude Julien
Julien is part of the Bruins model. His ability to run a system and integrate kids while getting an entire team to buy into his schemes is badly underrated by Bruins fans, much less the rest of the league.

Seguin is only 19 and didn't have a great year, and the 4th line was a strength of the team so breaking it up is ill-advised. Yeah you could probably find a couple guys you'd want to sit for him if you looked at individual players in a vacuum, but for the most part our lines are clicking in the playoffs, so we haven't really had an opportunity to need to think about playing the guy.

Also I agree with Julien that the kid is just a little too raw for playoff duty unless you're desperate which we aren't. I'd play Jordan Caron over Seguin personally, from an effort perspective if for no other reason.

As for the Bruins model, here's what I see Chiarelli going after in order of significance:

1: Dominant talent in net, as good as you can get

2: Great first pairing D

3: Depth at center. The Bruins exploded into relevance when Krejci joined Savard and Bergeron. Peverley (and Wheeler before the trade) provided adequate coverage of center after the Savard injury. And of course we have Seguin in development. The result is that while any one center isn't great, we're 4 men deep in centers that are good enough to play up a line (remember, Krejci was NOT Plan A as the first line center, that was Savard

4: High-effort forwards in general. Chia has drawn a fair bit of fire for things like preferring Krejci to Kessel and Peverley to Wheeler, but the results speak for themselves -- they've made the Bruins a lot better at transition, which is the key complement to a trap system to make it sufficiently dynamic to create good offense.

5: Puckmoving on D. This is an area Chia had to learn about the hard way. "God defense" isn't just about stopping the puck in the defensive zone. A trap system cannot be built with tanks in the middle pairings. You have to have players who can skate defensively if you fill your roster with guys who defend at wing. The result when done perfectly is 5 guys on the ice that play in all 3 zones. That's the reasoning behind ultimately swapping out Wideman, who was a nice puckmover but not very mobile, for ultimately Kaberle. It's also why the Bruins have Ference, who is an underrated B option as a puckmover and transition defenseman (at least when healthy) and why the Bruins had Kampfer featured so prominently in the Bruins pairings despite being a rookie defenseman before he got concussed.

Combine those 5 elements, and that's your key to success in modern hockey. Forwards who defend, defensemen who skate and chip in offensively, depth at center rather than obsessing about the top line, a good first pairing shutdown defenseman and all the goaltending smart money can buy.

Dojji* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 09:36 PM
  #31
nycbruins*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,933
vCash: 500
Did I just hear a Rangers fan talk about the Bruins being boring??

Mighty big glass house to live in. The Bruins have scored a lot of goals in 2 of the past 3 seasons.

nycbruins* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 09:37 PM
  #32
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 18,616
vCash: 500
Only Bruin's fans think the Rangers are a boring trap team. Sorry scoring 5 goals on you guys wasn't interesting enough.

And read the thread, most of us are complimenting your team.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 10:20 PM
  #33
Ryan McDonut
McD for Captain
 
Ryan McDonut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,626
vCash: 500
the bruins are playing incredible hockey right now. theyre my current favorite for the cup. unless of course, the choke against philly again

Ryan McDonut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-04-2011, 11:51 PM
  #34
mucker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Let's Be Safe!
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
Poster who mention Sidenberg is dead on...he is the difference this season...Chara is overrated a lot.

mucker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 12:43 AM
  #35
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHudlander View Post
Poster who mention Sidenberg is dead on...he is the difference this season...Chara is overrated a lot.
Should have posted this last night

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 12:47 AM
  #36
mucker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Let's Be Safe!
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
I'll say this much. I never understood why Sather didn't sign Chara or Savard in 2006.
He goes out every year and signs people to multi-year deals, but decides to sit out Chara then, don't get why.

mucker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 12:49 AM
  #37
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHudlander View Post
I'll say this much. I never understood why Sather didn't sign Chara or Savard in 2006.
He goes out every year and signs people to multi-year deals, but decides to sit out Chara then, don't get why.
I've heard rumors/speculation that Chara had no interest in signing with the Rangers... Can't assume it's the right fit for every high profile FA....

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:06 AM
  #38
mucker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Let's Be Safe!
Posts: 3,082
vCash: 500
I never heard, that Chara wouldn't sign with the Rangers (even though he is massively overrated, he is NOT a Norris caliber defenseman) he still would have been better than any other long term FA we did get.

Can not think of why he would say he would not sign here, never heard any FA say that about the Rangers, can't see him saying it as well.

mucker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:30 AM
  #39
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanErixon20 View Post
Bergeron had 57 points this past season. Krecji led the team with 62. The hope here is that Anisimov and perhaps Stepan can become similar point producers. And who knows with Richards.
Both players also had 70+ seasons. Horton and Lucic are also not slouches either. And Chara; we don't have anything close to Chara. As good as Staal is defensively, Chara's passing and shooting on the PP... well just ask Callahan and Drury's broken hands. or was it Girardi's ankle? Anyways, Staal is not gonna find a howitzer like that out of nowhere. Marchand is as promising of a rookie as Dubinsky ever was. Minus a few inches. Recchi and Ryder were good depth scorers. Peverley has had his share of success. They also have the Seguin kid who's just riding the pine. A lot needs to happen for our talent pool to catch up. A healthy and successful Gaborik immediately helps but Boston also had Savard before he went down.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 01:31 AM
  #40
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHudlander View Post
I never heard, that Chara wouldn't sign with the Rangers (even though he is massively overrated, he is NOT a Norris caliber defenseman) he still would have been better than any other long term FA we did get.

Can not think of why he would say he would not sign here, never heard any FA say that about the Rangers, can't see him saying it as well.
well he was once an Islander.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-05-2011, 11:42 PM
  #41
hockeyman001
Registered User
 
hockeyman001's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanErixon20 View Post
In watched the Bruins the past couple of seasons, I starting thinking that this is a model that the Rangers could follow. As Tortorella said, they are never going to be able to build like the Caps or Pens did with top 10 picks for a few seasons in a row.

The Bruins are built from the back of the ice. Solid goaltending. Their best player leads a strong defense. And a group of forwards that are good, but not great. Their top line is Lucic Krejci and Horton. The rest of the forward group is filled by guys like Bergeron and Mark Recchi, Michael Ryder, etc.

I think the Rangers can become what the Bruins are. A solid 100 point team that has the potential to challenge for the Cup. They have the goaltender and a strong, young defense. Their forwards are good, hard working guys with some skills, who are also young and hopefully getting better.

I think it's a good model to follow, just without the whole choking up in tight spots in the playoffs.
The biggest thing that makes the Bruins good (no pun intended) is Zdeno Chara. When you can sic a guy like that on the opposing top line, it helps you out by a mile.

Lucky for the Ottawa Senators, they chose to keep Redden over Chara. Whoops.

Lucky for the Rangers, they didn't learn from Ottawa's mistake and signed Redden to be their version of Chara (at least based on salary). Double whoops.

One guy I do like in the Bruins system that may become available is Valabik. Another big tough shut down defenseman (but one who needs to be coached to take less penalties...reminds me a little of a young Chara). But with McIlrath in the system he may be redundant.

hockeyman001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 07:34 AM
  #42
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
We are already a similar team to the Bruins. While they are a team that can somewhat score, they have to play a game like ours because they don't have much skill. They desperately need a true sniper if they ever want to be an elite team.


Milan Lucic - David Krejci - Nathan Horton
Brad Marchand - Patrice Bergeron - Mark Recchi
Rich Peverley - Chris Kelly - Michael Ryder
Daniel Paille - Gregory Campbell - Shawn Thornton

Zdeno Chara - Johnny Boychuk
Dennis Seidenberg - Tomas Kaberle
Andrew Ference - Adam McQuaid

Tim Thomas
Tuukka Rask


___________ - Brad Richards* - Marian Gaborik
Brandon Dubinsky - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan
Wojtek Wolski - Derek Stepan - Mats Zuccarello
___________ - Brian Boyle - Brandon Prust

Marc Staal - Dan Girardi
Ryan McDonagh - Michael Sauer
__________ - Michael Del Zotto

Henrik Lundqvist
Martin Biron


If the Bruins didn't get lucky this year with Tim Thomas, and they were very lucky because he'll never be able to come close to what he did again, then they'd have the same amount of points as us. Likewise, if we had a little bit more lucky on our side, we'd have a few more games in hand.
Lucky with Thomas? This is the second time in 3 years he's displayed Vezina trophy type play. How is that remotely luck?

Incidentally seguin while a disappontment to me is still only 19 and capable of becoming Boston's top skill player by say 2012-2013. Boston is set up right now
to contest with Pittsburgh for the next year or two for EC dominance.

Boston has overcome the loss of their top skill center, so they have proven they
have quite a bit of depth. They also lead the NHL in 5 on 5 goal differential which many people overlook.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 07:47 AM
  #43
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
Lucky with Thomas? This is the second time in 3 years he's displayed Vezina trophy type play. How is that remotely luck?
He is on PEDs, IMO. They have to clean NHL at some point.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 08:04 AM
  #44
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He is on PEDs, IMO. They have to clean NHL at some point.
Really? Want to provde any proof with that statement? If TT is on PED's rest assured the rest of the NHL is also.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 09:00 AM
  #45
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Dubinsky and Callahan still 3rd liners in your eyes? Both were on track for 60 points this season minus the time missed due to injuries, Callahan was on pace for 30 goals or so. Just because they bang, and cycle, and grind, and do most of their play below the hash marks, doesn't mean they're not suited to be Top 6 forwards. Would you prefer the Zherdev types? Who only play good hockey in small stretches, and show little heart & intensity when it matters most?

The Red Wings model right now constitutes 11 players on their roster over the age of 30. Seven of which are 35 or older. Is that really what you want?
This is really an intellectually dishonest post. Detriot won the SC just three years ago
with that model. What do you expect them to do throw away some of their best assets?

Lidstrom had an excellent year and Rafalski is still an effective player. Are you trying to tell me you wouldn't take them on Boston?

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 09:48 AM
  #46
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanErixon20 View Post
In watched the Bruins the past couple of seasons, I starting thinking that this is a model that the Rangers could follow. As Tortorella said, they are never going to be able to build like the Caps or Pens did with top 10 picks for a few seasons in a row.

The Bruins are built from the back of the ice. Solid goaltending. Their best player leads a strong defense. And a group of forwards that are good, but not great. Their top line is Lucic Krejci and Horton. The rest of the forward group is filled by guys like Bergeron and Mark Recchi, Michael Ryder, etc.

I think the Rangers can become what the Bruins are. A solid 100 point team that has the potential to challenge for the Cup. They have the goaltender and a strong, young defense. Their forwards are good, hard working guys with some skills, who are also young and hopefully getting better.

I think it's a good model to follow, just without the whole choking up in tight spots in the playoffs.
I agree.. Good post..

Also, there really is not much separating this Ranger team to the Bruins.

Both teams have real good goalies
Both teams have a strong defense
Both teams are comparable on offense. (Boston scored only 13 more goals than the Rangers all season)

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 09:56 AM
  #47
NHRangerfan
enfoonts
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Country: United States
Posts: 3,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
He is on PEDs, IMO. They have to clean NHL at some point.


really? and you know this how?

NHRangerfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 10:32 AM
  #48
frozenrubber
Registered User
 
frozenrubber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHudlander View Post
I never heard, that Chara wouldn't sign with the Rangers (even though he is massively overrated, he is NOT a Norris caliber defenseman) he still would have been better than any other long term FA we did get.

Can not think of why he would say he would not sign here, never heard any FA say that about the Rangers, can't see him saying it as well.
Chara's agent immediately notified the Rangers on July 1st that his client (Chara) was not interested in playing for the NYR. The Rangers had interest.

Another player a Rangers made a strong pitch to, but "missed out" on was Patrick Elias.

frozenrubber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 10:52 AM
  #49
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,615
vCash: 500
Maybe it's just me, but I'd hesitate to model my team after another one if they have yet to win a Cup. We'll see what happens with Boston in the next month.

What it comes down to, as it always does, is having an eye for talent throughout the draft, making smart trades, and signing the right free agents. The first and third ones have been a bit of an issue for Sather.

OverTheCap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2011, 11:37 AM
  #50
JanErixon20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
I agree.. Good post..

Also, there really is not much separating this Ranger team to the Bruins.

Both teams have real good goalies
Both teams have a strong defense
Both teams are comparable on offense. (Boston scored only 13 more goals than the Rangers all season)
Thank you. It just seems the logical way to form this Ranger team. Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, etc. are not going to be drafted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I'd hesitate to model my team after another one if they have yet to win a Cup. We'll see what happens with Boston in the next month.

What it comes down to, as it always does, is having an eye for talent throughout the draft, making smart trades, and signing the right free agents. The first and third ones have been a bit of an issue for Sather.
That's part of the whole building process. We'll see if the Bruins learned anything from last year. But they are consistent 100 point team and a boarder line conf. finals team the last 3 seasons, including this one.

JanErixon20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.