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Jaromir Jagr

View Poll Results: Do you think Jaromir will be back with the NYR (after retiring) in some capacity?
Yes, as a representative of the organization 11 8.66%
Yes, as a guest at special Ranger events 57 44.88%
No, Sather has permanently burned that bridge 68 53.54%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-05-2011, 04:03 PM
  #101
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Just watched that video a few minutes after NYorts post.

Man...imagine that Jagr on this team.

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05-05-2011, 11:32 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
After seeing our former captain's name being brought up in the "Richards-LW" thread, it really got me to thinking about how he left, and what a bad taste in left in everyone's mouth.

I know most fans would have liked to see him come back, and the way Sather just bluntly told him he wasn't in the plans was a slap in the face IMO. He didn't want to leave, and despite having opportunities to stay in the NHL, went to Russia. NYR was the only team he wanted to play for.

He loved NY and the fans, and we loved him. He made hockey relevant again, when it could have faded into even more obscurity following the lockout. He got us back into the playoffs, and along with Henrik, got MSG rocking again. Although he was here for a short time, I feel like he made a pretty big impact on this team.

What I'm saying here is, do you think anytime in the future he will be back with the team? Not as a player, but perhaps for special ceremonies? Retirement nights? Public relations type gig?

Or do you think there will be/should be a Jaromir Jagr night in the future sometime? Obviously not a retiring of his jersey, but a final chance for the Garden Faithful to say thanks and goodbye?

Sorry if this has been brought up before, just thought it was interesting to discuss.
I agree with this. The saddest part is this: I really thought the 2005-06 team was the strongest the Rangers had since the lockout since it had the scoring and the defense and they just underperformed badly in the playoffs. That lineup was quite epic and actually had a legit top 6: Jagr/Straka/Nylander/Sykora/Rucinsky/Prucha (who was actually good that year). I mean you know you had depth and defense when Steve Rucchin and Blair Betts were playing 3rd/4th line center. 06/07 and 07/08 went farther but like today they did not have the same scoring punch as 05/06.

Two things would have made the Rangers even better that year: 1) Pavel Bure never hurts his knee and is healthy and still a Ranger. Him and Jagr in the same lineup gives me goose bumps to think about.

2) The Rangers never stupidly trade Brian Leetch for Kondratiev/Immonen/picks, and they actually have a legitimate PP quarterback the whole year. Then they never have to trade for Ozolinsh who was past his prime and not a good defender.

I think the Rangers should have kept Jagr but it's way too late now. If you listen to his quotes about the NHL now, he sounds like he's at peace with his career and doesn't want the pressure of being a top line player anymore, he sounds like he wants to round out his career as a role player in a foreign league and mostly play for fun. Plus I don't think he'd be that great anymore...maybe a 60 point player at this point. But I still like him and appreciate what he did to get this team relevant again after the lockout.

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05-07-2011, 01:14 AM
  #103
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Voted No.

He will be remembered as a Pen and he and Mario are still buddies. I think he stays in Europe and becomes one of the top coaches over there.

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05-07-2011, 08:44 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Voted No.

He will be remembered as a Pen and he and Mario are still buddies. I think he stays in Europe and becomes one of the top coaches over there.
Meanwhile breaking almost every offensive NYR record.

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05-07-2011, 10:26 AM
  #105
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Meanwhile breaking almost every offensive NYR record.
In a season of league-wide inflated offense.

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05-07-2011, 10:31 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
In a season of league-wide inflated offense.
Lol? Yes that season doesn't count because of inflated offense...It's a conspiracy.... That's down right pathetic... to try to take away the records Jagr broke as a Ranger. Accept the fact that he's a special player and move on.

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05-07-2011, 11:10 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Lol? Yes that season doesn't count because of inflated offense...It's a conspiracy.... That's down right pathetic... to try to take away the records Jagr broke as a Ranger. Accept the fact that he's a special player and move on.
Accept the fact that he's a special player? I accepted that fact long before he ever joined this team, when he was a Pittsburgh Penguin and the enemy.

You should accept the fact that acquiring Jagr was a horrible move in the first place, and helped set this franchise back another half-decade, no matter how special a player he was, or how many records he "broke."

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05-07-2011, 11:39 AM
  #108
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The only thing that set this organization back half a decade is the albatross contracts of Drury, Gomez and Redden. If we actually allocated that money effectively we couldve built a competitive team without tanking. Don't see why you feel the need to marginalize Jagrs accomplishments here by quoting the fact he did indeed break records here.

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05-07-2011, 11:42 AM
  #109
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Those contracts don't happen if the team actually rebuilt instead of acquiring Jagr and signing his friends. I have nothing against Jagr. He's probably the greatest European player of all time. But he shouldn't have been on this team, and I'll never understand this attachment Ranger fans have for him. I, for one, think it's a shame that he's the holder of some important team records, especially when he achieved those records in a season full of statistical anomalies.

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05-07-2011, 11:44 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Accept the fact that he's a special player? I accepted that fact long before he ever joined this team, when he was a Pittsburgh Penguin and the enemy.

You should accept the fact that acquiring Jagr was a horrible move in the first place, and helped set this franchise back another half-decade, no matter how special a player he was, or how many records he "broke."
I've never heard such an abysmal statement. If you were running this team (Thank God you're not) we'd be rebuilding every season.

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05-07-2011, 11:48 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I've never heard such an abysmal statement. If you were running this team (Thank God you're not) we'd be rebuilding every season.
If I was running the team, we'd have rebuilt ONCE, something that has NEVER happened, even when a glorious opportunity to do so following the purge of 2004 was an option.

If you were running the team, Hemsky and Plekanec would be leading this team to perennial first round playoff exits till the end of time.

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05-07-2011, 12:05 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Those contracts don't happen if the team actually rebuilt instead of acquiring Jagr and signing his friends. I have nothing against Jagr. He's probably the greatest European player of all time. But he shouldn't have been on this team, and I'll never understand this attachment Ranger fans have for him. I, for one, think it's a shame that he's the holder of some important team records, especially when he achieved those records in a season full of statistical anomalies.
No, those contracts don't happen if Sather isn't an idiot. It's as simple as that. Jagr didn't want Drury, Gomez and Redden. I can see what you're saying but the fact is if we used the money in those guys to actually get better players (or in the case of Drury not overpay out of the ass for him) we'd have been a great team.

That's not Jagr's fault.

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05-07-2011, 12:18 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
No, those contracts don't happen if Sather isn't an idiot. It's as simple as that. Jagr didn't want Drury, Gomez and Redden. I can see what you're saying but the fact is if we used the money in those guys to actually get better players (or in the case of Drury not overpay out of the ass for him) we'd have been a great team.

That's not Jagr's fault.
Nothing is Jagr's fault. But those contracts don't happen if the team isn't trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the fanbase and convince them that the Rangers were actually a good team, and not a collection of has-beens and scrubs being pulled into early playoff exits by Lundqvist, Jagr and Shanahan.

If they don't get Jagr OR his friends before 05-06, we're probably a top 3 pick in 2006 and 2007.

It's not Jagr that I have a problem with, it's the glorification of those teams and this myth that they were somehow a great thing for us as a fanbase. I think that whole era was a travesty. Just wasted years.

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05-07-2011, 12:43 PM
  #114
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I do understand Sting's point although I love Jags and respect everything he did to make this franchise relevant again. We were supposed to be a rebuilding team that year after the lockout and finish dead last. Probably would have been like that for another year or two but instead we surprised everybody. And the 05-06 team and 06-07 team had everyone thinking we were Cup contenders from the fans up to the management and they moved away from the rebuilding process and went out and signed Gomez and Drury. If we had a better GM, we wouldn't have been in as bad of a spot but instead, he completely scrapped the rebuilding idea until he had no more cap space to work with. Now he's pretty much forced to develop and hang on to the kids.

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05-08-2011, 04:48 AM
  #115
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Jagr and his so called "friends" were some of the best players on those teams, and things didn't go bad until the Drury/Gomez deals, and only got worse with the Redden/Rozsival ones.

Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Rucinsky, Sykora were the backbone and best players of some very good teams and allowed Lundqvist to come up, play well and experience some success, and not live a soul crushing Dan Blackburn like existence in his first NHL action.

Not only that, the reason the Rangers would have been so abysmal that year without "Jagr and his friends" is the players the Rangers drafted. Look at some of the picks that should have been producing for the team back then (Lundmark/Brendl, Malhotra, Savard - I still hate that trade, Jessiman, and the randoms like Jeff Brown, Stefan Cherneski, and Christian Dube)...I don't think you can say the Rangers definitely would have rebuilt through the draft. Best they could've hoped for out of the 06 draft would be Toews or Backstrom, but even still that's only one player and Jagr by himself was better than both. The 07 draft was Kane or bust, so that's a real roll of the dice to assume the team would have benefitted so much from the presence of say, Sam Gagner, if they hadn't won the lottery.

The team was up the creek BEFORE the Jagr trade and when you figure they got to get rid of Anson Carter too the deal was a no brainer. Jagr brought this franchise back to the playoffs and with him there the rebuild was nearly complete to make a serious cup contender until Sather went out and shot his load on the Drury/Gomez albatrosses and set the whole thing back again.

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05-08-2011, 12:01 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Jagr and his so called "friends" were some of the best players on those teams, and things didn't go bad until the Drury/Gomez deals, and only got worse with the Redden/Rozsival ones.

Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Rucinsky, Sykora were the backbone and best players of some very good teams and allowed Lundqvist to come up, play well and experience some success, and not live a soul crushing Dan Blackburn like existence in his first NHL action.

Not only that, the reason the Rangers would have been so abysmal that year without "Jagr and his friends" is the players the Rangers drafted. Look at some of the picks that should have been producing for the team back then (Lundmark/Brendl, Malhotra, Savard - I still hate that trade, Jessiman, and the randoms like Jeff Brown, Stefan Cherneski, and Christian Dube)...I don't think you can say the Rangers definitely would have rebuilt through the draft. Best they could've hoped for out of the 06 draft would be Toews or Backstrom, but even still that's only one player and Jagr by himself was better than both. The 07 draft was Kane or bust, so that's a real roll of the dice to assume the team would have benefitted so much from the presence of say, Sam Gagner, if they hadn't won the lottery.

The team was up the creek BEFORE the Jagr trade and when you figure they got to get rid of Anson Carter too the deal was a no brainer. Jagr brought this franchise back to the playoffs and with him there the rebuild was nearly complete to make a serious cup contender until Sather went out and shot his load on the Drury/Gomez albatrosses and set the whole thing back again.
The bolded statement is absurd and simply untrue. The rebuild was nearly complete?

The entire team was using superhuman performances from Jagr and Lundqvist as a crutch. It was ready to go off a cliff even without the subsequent terrible free agent signings.

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05-08-2011, 12:20 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
If I was running the team, we'd have rebuilt ONCE, something that has NEVER happened, even when a glorious opportunity to do so following the purge of 2004 was an option.

If you were running the team, Hemsky and Plekanec would be leading this team to perennial first round playoff exits till the end of time.
I get your approach, but Schoenfeld's post Whale interview pretty much said exactly what I've been saying to counter your arguments about finishing last and drafting top 3: it isn't an option for the Rangers and that's exactly what he said. Whatever the reason: money, fans, TV viewership, ticket sales, etc... the Rangers organization simply doesn't want to/can't do a Pittsburgh-type rebuild.

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05-08-2011, 01:12 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The bolded statement is absurd and simply untrue. The rebuild was nearly complete?

The entire team was using superhuman performances from Jagr and Lundqvist as a crutch. It was ready to go off a cliff even without the subsequent terrible free agent signings.
Yes, but what was so bad about relying on one or two star players? A lot of teams do it and Jagr was one of the best in the game at it...I'm not saying we would have won a Stanley Cup obviously that way...but now imagine the Rangers hadn't made those awful signings, you're still getting those good performances and the then kids come up and grow as players...when they get good, now you have some depth, and when Jagr gets old you haven't burned the free agent budget on overrated second line garbage, and you can go out and sign another superstar.

Imagine if the Rangers had kept Jagr, and in not signing Drury still had the money to go out and get Gaborik? Last season would have been a very different story.

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05-08-2011, 01:14 PM
  #119
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I get your approach, but Schoenfeld's post Whale interview pretty much said exactly what I've been saying to counter your arguments about finishing last and drafting top 3: it isn't an option for the Rangers and that's exactly what he said. Whatever the reason: money, fans, TV viewership, ticket sales, etc... the Rangers organization simply doesn't want to/can't do a Pittsburgh-type rebuild.
Pittsburgh also had the fortune of doing their rebuild in draft years where ELITE players were available...guys that come along maybe 3 or 4 times in a whole generation.

The quality of the players in the draft since then has not been quite as good. There are many good players available but not a lot of 100 point potential types like Malkin/Crosby.

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05-08-2011, 02:00 PM
  #120
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Jagr wasn't the problem, the UFAs Sather got afterward were.

We could have ended up with either Danny Briere, Paul Kariya, or even Brian Rafalski (Although he was a Red Wings fan growing up) in 2007.

If he only got one of those players that year, we could have landed the big fish in 2008: Marian Hossa. If not him, maybe the Rangers could have went after Corey Perry (Also don't believe he would have signed here because he did win the Cup with the Ducks the year prior).

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05-08-2011, 05:18 PM
  #121
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Jagr with limited icetime could still do stuff. especially on PP.

Nice goal against Russia at the WC btw

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05-09-2011, 08:59 AM
  #122
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Jagr with limited icetime could still do stuff. especially on PP.

Nice goal against Russia at the WC btw
Limited icetime?

Have you followed the stats?

Jagr has been the leading minutes guy among forwards on the Czech team.

Even playing in the KLH where they play on the bigger ice surface, Jagr was the leading minutes forward for Omsk playing 21 minutes a game.

What some poeple fail to realize is that Jagr's impact on hockey goes beyond his stats. Even in 2007-08 when he struggled in the regular season, he was still the leading scorer for the Rangers and what he provides is someone that takes the pressure off the rest of the offense. He commands the double teams, the shadowing, and his size and strength allow him to open the ice for the rest of his line and on the powerplay.

What is also forgotten is that Jagr struggled more because of lack of chemistry with Gomez and Drury than because of age or fatigue. Jagr is a type of player that says one thing and means another.

He wasn't going to criticize Sather's decision to bring in Drury and Gomez, but clearly he was upset that Nylander was let go for 2 over-paid, overrated centermen.

So what he did is claim he was saving himself for the playoffs.

Is it a coincidence that the moment Jagr was paired with Dubinsky (a player that understands the cylcing game) that Jagr's play picked up?

This was also a few weeks before the playoffs. Jagr's play didn't just suddenly turn up in the playoffs, it started in March.

Otherwise, as some might remember, Jagr would have actually finished 2nd in team scoring behind Gomez.


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05-09-2011, 09:50 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Nothing is Jagr's fault. But those contracts don't happen if the team isn't trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the fanbase and convince them that the Rangers were actually a good team, and not a collection of has-beens and scrubs being pulled into early playoff exits by Lundqvist, Jagr and Shanahan.

If they don't get Jagr OR his friends before 05-06, we're probably a top 3 pick in 2006 and 2007.

It's not Jagr that I have a problem with, it's the glorification of those teams and this myth that they were somehow a great thing for us as a fanbase. I think that whole era was a travesty. Just wasted years.
As opposed to the other 69 years we haven't won the cup? Jagr got us, pretty much single-handedly, the closest to a cup in the last 11 years.

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05-09-2011, 11:16 AM
  #124
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I have nothing against Jagr. He's probably the greatest European player of all time. But he shouldn't have been on this team, and I'll never understand this attachment Ranger fans have for him. I, for one, think it's a shame that he's the holder of some important team records, especially when he achieved those records in a season full of statistical anomalies.
You claim not to have anything against him (yet you take the opportunity to knock his accomplishment whenever possible) and then you state that it's a "shame" that he holds team records.

How exactly does it matter that his #'s were achieved in a "season full of statistical anomalies?" He led the team in points by 40+. He scored over 20 goals more than the next guy on the team. He led the league in goals & points for most of the season. His dominance over the NHL in that season is without question and his status as team leader in goals & points were well earned...especially when considering the amount of hooking/holding/interference that he took compared to his peers.

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05-09-2011, 11:42 AM
  #125
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You claim not to have anything against him (yet you take the opportunity to knock his accomplishment whenever possible) and then you state that it's a "shame" that he holds team records.

How exactly does it matter that his #'s were achieved in a "season full of statistical anomalies?" He led the team in points by 40+. He scored over 20 goals more than the next guy on the team. He led the league in goals & points for most of the season. His dominance over the NHL in that season is without question and his status as team leader in goals & points were well earned...especially when considering the amount of hooking/holding/interference that he took compared to his peers.
That season in particular wasn't even as inflated as some claim.


Check out this link.

http://www.dropyourgloves.com/Stat/LeagueGoals.aspx

There about 30 seasons in which the scoring was higher and that includes all of the 80's and most of the 70's (seasons in which Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux put up their record numbers). Even in the 90's alone, at least 1993-94, 1995-96 were higher.

Was what Lemieux accomplished in 1995-96 "useless" because scoring was higher?

Scoring is scoring, the fact is Jagr scored 123 Pts and only Thornton had 125 Pts and no one else had 110 or more.

So if it was that easy to score, how come no one else accomplished what Jagr and Thornton accomplished that season?

Nylander doesn't get career highs, Prucha doesn't score 30 as a rookie, the Rangers don't contend for 1st in their division until the last game of the season if not for Jagr.

That guy needs to admit that he doesn't like Jagr and just takes every opportunity to bash his accomplishments.

He did something that no other Ranger player has ever done, get 54 goals and 123 Pts, plain and simple.

Also what Jagr did in 2006-07 (season where scoring went down) was quite impressive; 96 Pts with a reconstructed shoulder at age 35 nonetheless.

It's not like 2005-06 was the first time Jagr scored 50 goals or had 123 Pts.

This is a guy who won 5 Art Ross trophies, and scored 60 and 50 before and had numerous 120 + Pts seasons before in times when scoring was much lower than at any time after the lockout.


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