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How close is Grachev?

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Old
05-06-2011, 04:51 PM
  #26
vipernsx
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He's got the size, speed and shot and he played much better the 2nd half then he did in his first 1.5 down in the AHL. That said, he's yet to dominate the minor ranks like AA has and he's yet to show that he think the game at the high pace of the NHL. He doesn't show the killer instinct it takes to be an NHLer and he needs it. He needs a little bit of Ryan Hollweg reckless in him. He needs some Ryan Callahan drive. He's got too much Drury Valium.

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05-06-2011, 08:16 PM
  #27
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Don't even get me started on Grachev. I haven't gotten in a fight on here in a couple weeks and I'd like to keep it going

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05-06-2011, 10:30 PM
  #28
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I wasn't going to comment in this thread as I am perhaps his most ardent supporter going back to when he was drafted, but seeing people question his speed and shot changed my mind. Both are excellent. Period.

Does he need to perform better? Absolutely. But the issues are in his aggression and decisiveness (which are apparently improving). If you're going to question his physical attributes, his speed and shot are not the right place to direct your attention. He's not a wizard-like stickhandler. He is a pretty decent, but not stepan-esque passer. But to question his speed or his shot?

His assets are, in order:
- size
- speed
- shot

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05-07-2011, 12:33 AM
  #29
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Grachev has superb straight away speed, and his shot is hard and heavy. ive read nothing but great things about him down the stretch.

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05-07-2011, 01:07 AM
  #30
Jarkko Immonen
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He needs to start the year in Hartford. He showed a lot of improvement this season, but not enough that I'd consider him ready to step onto a scoring line for the Rangers.

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05-07-2011, 02:03 AM
  #31
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I expect him to remain trade bait.

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05-07-2011, 05:18 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I wasn't going to comment in this thread as I am perhaps his most ardent supporter going back to when he was drafted, but seeing people question his speed and shot changed my mind. Both are excellent. Period.

Does he need to perform better? Absolutely. But the issues are in his aggression and decisiveness (which are apparently improving). If you're going to question his physical attributes, his speed and shot are not the right place to direct your attention. He's not a wizard-like stickhandler. He is a pretty decent, but not stepan-esque passer. But to question his speed or his shot?

His assets are, in order:
- size
- speed
- shot

I don't think the problem is that he lacks any particular attribute. I think the problem is his ability to put it all together. If he had Stepan's brain (hockey sense, vision, patience, leadership), Grachev would be a first liner already.

But he does not and hockey is not a skills competition. You can just have a big body skating fast hoping that he'll use his hard shot. He has to get in the right position, know when to pass and when to stickhandle, do all the little things that result in a player being in position to score.

He lacks that. I don't have huge hopes for him being a top-6 forward.

I think Prust - Boyle - Feds/Hagelin is a great third line, and if we got another line of Grachev - Werek - Weise to perform on the same level, we would have tremendous depth in the bottom-6 that would actually give us a boost in scoring the same way a good bench can help an NBA team's starters. They wouldn't be our primary scorers, but they would chip in enough goals to make up for at least part of the top-6 offensive deficiencies.

For more on this, see: Devils circa 1995.

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Old
05-07-2011, 07:45 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I expect him to remain trade bait.
WHY?

Lets stop with the quick fixes. They always bite us in the ass. Lets keep him and hope he develops into the top 6 forward we need.

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05-07-2011, 08:22 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
WHY?

Lets stop with the quick fixes. They always bite us in the ass. Lets keep him and hope he develops into the top 6 forward we need.
We can't keep every friggin prospect can we? Where is getting value for our assets that way? Wait till they fullly bust then trade them when they are at no value? We have tons of kids, why not see what we can get for the ones being passed by on the depth chart like Grachev? Sometimes a change is just what they need to get back on track.

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05-07-2011, 09:03 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
We can't keep every friggin prospect can we? Where is getting value for our assets that way? Wait till they fullly bust then trade them when they are at no value? We have tons of kids, why not see what we can get for the ones being passed by on the depth chart like Grachev? Sometimes a change is just what they need to get back on track.
Yes, let's trade a 6'4 220lb 20 year old because we have given him 2 years to develop...lets get rid of that bum.

I would like to hear your trade prospal...who are we trading him away for?

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05-07-2011, 09:07 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Yes, let's trade a 6'4 220lb 20 year old because we have given him 2 years to develop...lets get rid of that bum.

I would like to hear your trade prospal...who are we trading him away for?
Ok so when Sather makes calls there has to be a list of players who he would trade. I myself think Grachev is on that list. I don't have a particular deal in mind but I think he would be moved in a potential deal. You just listed why teams would be interested in him.

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05-07-2011, 09:10 AM
  #37
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Got better as the season went on so hopefully he puts up big numbers there next season. No rush, big guys develop slower.

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05-07-2011, 09:20 AM
  #38
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If Grachev had stayed in juniors and tore it up, then moved on to the AHL and put up the numbers he did this year, no one would be suggesting we should trade him. Some people just don't seem to grasp how young he still is development-wise.

Sauer was a 2nd round pick and didn't make the Rangers until he was 23. Now everyone who had given up on him loves him. Good thing we didn't trade him, huh? I think we can afford to give a 3rd round pick in Grachev another couple years to see how he progresses, though I don't think he'll need that long. I expect him to be a full time Ranger by the start of the 2012 season.

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05-07-2011, 09:33 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
WHY?

Lets stop with the quick fixes. They always bite us in the ass. Lets keep him and hope he develops into the top 6 forward we need.
It wouldn't be a quick fix.

I'm all for letting Grach stay in the AHL and develop. I'm also all for moving him in a good deal.

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05-07-2011, 10:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BrianNYR View Post
Will he need another year in the AHL?
AA played 2 years in the AHL before making the bump. What do you think EG's chances are at camp?
I don't see him making the team this year, I think he stays in Connecticut for another year, then will have a good shot at the team in 2012-2013

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Old
05-07-2011, 10:25 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Yes, let's trade a 6'4 220lb 20 year old because we have given him 2 years to develop...lets get rid of that bum.

I would like to hear your trade prospal...who are we trading him away for?
Jamal Myers + 7th.

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Old
05-07-2011, 10:29 AM
  #42
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Like I said awhile back: he's either a bust or late bloomer.

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05-07-2011, 10:54 AM
  #43
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Ya hold on to Grachev unless he is part of a bigger package. Whether he's a piece for a top line Center, Wing, or PMD. Once this falls camp concludes and of course this off-season not only will all of us GM's of HFBoards have a better understanding, but clearly the NYR organization. In a logical sense we need 8 wingers 4 left, and 4 right.

Left - Dubinsky, Wolski, Avery..Now of course the last two are prolly bought out so it may be only Dubi.

Right - Gaborik, Callahan, Prust, and I suppose Zuccarello although he may be more of a prospect still.

Figure the buyouts happen of Wolski and Avery and Zuccarello isn't a lock. That leaves us with..

Left wing - Kreider, Hagelin, Grachev

Right Wing - Zuccarello, Thomas

3 out of the 5 closest prospects haven't sniffed the NHL game yet. Zuccarello might not be what Torts wants in his lineup and Grachev hasn't showed consistency yet. So once it becomes a bit clearer what spots are taken in this lineup then I think one to two of our prospected wingers could be dealt.

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05-07-2011, 11:22 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ke11y96 View Post
Ya hold on to Grachev unless he is part of a bigger package. Whether he's a piece for a top line Center, Wing, or PMD. Once this falls camp concludes and of course this off-season not only will all of us GM's of HFBoards have a better understanding, but clearly the NYR organization. In a logical sense we need 8 wingers 4 left, and 4 right.

Left - Dubinsky, Wolski, Avery..Now of course the last two are prolly bought out so it may be only Dubi.

Right - Gaborik, Callahan, Prust, and I suppose Zuccarello although he may be more of a prospect still.

Figure the buyouts happen of Wolski and Avery and Zuccarello isn't a lock. That leaves us with..

Left wing - Kreider, Hagelin, Grachev

Right Wing - Zuccarello, Thomas

3 out of the 5 closest prospects haven't sniffed the NHL game yet. Zuccarello might not be what Torts wants in his lineup and Grachev hasn't showed consistency yet. So once it becomes a bit clearer what spots are taken in this lineup then I think one to two of our prospected wingers could be dealt.
I disagree with Tort not wanting Zucc's.

The kid breaks up playes well, plays with alot of juice, and makes at least one eye opening play per game. Thats a Trots player, and IMO all he needs to do it the same thing Stepan & McD need to do. Get stronger and conditioned for the 82 game NHL schedual. All three of them were knocking our socks off till they hit their respective walls and even then the talent shined through the clouds of mental mistakes made from fatigue.

Zuccs will be fine, and will improve on last season for sure, although it may take 1-2 more seasons till we see his true form.

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Old
05-07-2011, 11:28 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If Grachev had stayed in juniors and tore it up, then moved on to the AHL and put up the numbers he did this year, no one would be suggesting we should trade him. Some people just don't seem to grasp how young he still is development-wise.

Sauer was a 2nd round pick and didn't make the Rangers until he was 23. Now everyone who had given up on him loves him. Good thing we didn't trade him, huh? I think we can afford to give a 3rd round pick in Grachev another couple years to see how he progresses, though I don't think he'll need that long. I expect him to be a full time Ranger by the start of the 2012 season.
I'm not saying he's gonna bust. I'm saying we can't hold onto every damn kid in the system forever now can we? Why wait till they get to the Jessiman level of value to decide it's time to trade them?

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05-07-2011, 11:46 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
I disagree with Tort not wanting Zucc's.

The kid breaks up playes well, plays with alot of juice, and makes at least one eye opening play per game. Thats a Trots player, and IMO all he needs to do it the same thing Stepan & McD need to do. Get stronger and conditioned for the 82 game NHL schedual. All three of them were knocking our socks off till they hit their respective walls and even then the talent shined through the clouds of mental mistakes made from fatigue.

Zuccs will be fine, and will improve on last season for sure, although it may take 1-2 more seasons till we see his true form.
Well the only reason I brought that point up is in one of Torts' end of the year video's he discusses how Zucc might not be able to handle the rigors of the NHL game. I personally agree with you that he should get a 3rd line spot next season, and yes he needs conditioning and strength at a higher level.

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Old
05-07-2011, 11:48 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Like I said awhile back: he's either a bust or late bloomer.
Well, we took him in the third round. Even if he ends up as a bottom six grinder, that's not a bust.

I think it would be unfair to label him as such based on the hype surrounding him. The hype was unfair. As I said, third round pick. A huge majority of players picked in round three never see a regular NHL shift.

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05-07-2011, 11:50 AM
  #48
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I'm not saying he's gonna bust. I'm saying we can't hold onto every damn kid in the system forever now can we? Why wait till they get to the Jessiman level of value to decide it's time to trade them?
Exactly! Personally I think this team is doing quite well with implementing draft picks and acquired prospects.

Callahan, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Sauer, Gilroy, Stepan, Staal, Girardi, McD, Sauer, Del Zotto, Lundqvist..

Thats 12 of a possible 20 roster spots of home grown talent.

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05-07-2011, 01:31 PM
  #49
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I'm not saying he's gonna bust. I'm saying we can't hold onto every damn kid in the system forever now can we? Why wait till they get to the Jessiman level of value to decide it's time to trade them?
He's 20 years old.

He's a 3rd Round Pick.

We can afford to see if he pans out. He's not going to be anything more than a throw-in in a trade.

Let him develop.

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05-07-2011, 01:33 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
He's 20 years old.

He's a 3rd Round Pick.

We can afford to see if he pans out. He's not going to be anything more than a throw-in in a trade.

Let him develop.
If a Grachev throw in is what it takes to get us a LWer to play on a top line, so be it.

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