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Flyers notes: Holmgren dubs Bruins the better team (& the Value of Goaltending?)

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Old
05-07-2011, 02:22 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Listen, this team needs a starting goaltender, everyone knows it, all of us want one. However, even if it had been Vokoun in net for us, we still probably would have lost, because regardless of goaltending, you can't win a series when the entire team decides they don't want to show up. It, sadly, probably wouldn't have made a difference this year, and THAT is what is concerning to me.
Goaltending took this team out of the series from the jump. The Flyers weren't playing that bad at the start of game 1, but it was clear Boosh was completely off his game, even for his standards. Team quit when they realized no matter how good they could be, the goalie was going to cost them that game.

Game 2, they came out flying like we expected them too, but two bad goals (1 with half a minute left in the period) again took them off their game till midway through the 3rd. And then a crap goal in OT.

Game 2 is where the series turned. The Flyers really brought it that game and were undone by great goaltending at one end, and poor goaltending at the other. After that, I think it was clear to the players and the coach that they had no chance in this series.

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Old
05-07-2011, 04:00 AM
  #27
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I dont buy all of the we got outplayed that is why we lost, it wasnt because of our goalies. I agree with the fact the flyers were outplayed, but you could see they had nothing left. After coming back in almost every single game in the first round, then just to have your goalies get even worse in the second round deflated them to the point where they just had nothing left to give.

Most teams would not have been able to overcome the horrid goaltending of the first round. I think they showed alot of heart overcoming that, and it just proved to be too much mentally on them in the end.

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Old
05-07-2011, 04:48 AM
  #28
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he used "words"

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Old
05-07-2011, 07:30 AM
  #29
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The worst part is.....

That now you don't really know if goaltending was for sure a problem. Laviolette's choice to play Boucher for most of the post season this year prevents knowing what Bobrovsky was capable of.

Mike Peca on TSN said the same thing during the game last night. They should have played Bobrovsky. He's the one who had the good numbers in the regular season, he should have been expected to compete in the playoffs and given the opportunity to prove if he is capable of being the #1 goalie.

Presumably, Holmgren already must have made his choice that either:

1) Bobrovsky isn't the goalie of the future and he needs to upgrade at the #1 goalie spot.

2) Bobrovsky was too young to throw into the fire, and wanted to place the burden on Boucher/Leighton ideally.

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Old
05-07-2011, 07:36 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Goaltending was part of the problem, not a symptom of the problem.

Better goaltending and we may win game 2. Game 3 may go differently if we get avstop on the second goal.

Disregarding that fact, Brian Boucher isn't going to lead you to a championship. I don't care how deep you are, and that is on Holmgren. Unfortunately, this was an obvious problem 9 months ago.
Neither is Leighton, and neither is Bob (as a rookie).

I know it's been discussed, but people should give props to Yzerman. On January 1st, his team was in first place in the SE, but he knew that there was no chance his team was going anywhere with his current goalies. He traded for Roloson -- something Holmgren should have done two years in a row -- and it's proven to be a difference maker.

Holmgren's inability to see his goaltending's weaknesses -- or at lest not do anything about it -- is so damn frustrating.

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Old
05-07-2011, 10:09 AM
  #31
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If only this happened...
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...have-talked-to

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Old
05-07-2011, 10:17 AM
  #32
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Eklund's take...I think it's an interesting slant and still goes back to the goaltending. Lavi def didn't help the situation...


Quote:
This series was a total collapse for the Flyers, and it starts with the coaching of Peter Laviolette.

Laviolette's handling of the goaltending throughout the playoffs was atrocious. It is one thing to play the hot goalie, but in doing so a coach can do the small things to try and keep the confidence level of the team higher. The Flyers players were solidly behind Boucher and from Game 6 of the Buffalo series on a rift developed between the players and coach that could be heard in everyone you talked to. I am not saying Boucher was stellar, be was very up and down, but the fact he was being handled the way he was had his teammates very upset and made Laviolette look indecisive and on more than one occasion I heard the word, "guessing" being used.

The worst moment for Laviolette came 90 seconds into game 3 when he called a timeout to just address Boucher individually. The better way to handle this would have been to swap goalies, even if for a few minutes, and let Boucher catch his breath. Instead I get the impression Laviolette was afraid the team would react badly to Boucher being pulled.

In the end the Flyers had to change their game to compensate for the goalie caravan and the forwards became less and less offensive minded and stopped playing their roles.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...inated/1/35717

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Old
05-07-2011, 10:32 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Eklund's take...I think it's an interesting slant and still goes back to the goaltending. Lavi def didn't help the situation...


Lavi did the same thing with Leighton when the Bruins went up 3-0 in game 7 last year and it worked fine. CBC was talking about it during the timeout in game3. A rift over the goaltending wouldn't surprise me though, all the more reason to get Bryzgalov or Vokoun. Pay him starters money and he's your starter.

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Old
05-07-2011, 10:37 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
2011 brings the Holmgren era into it's fifth year. Before that, it was 19 years of Bobby Clarke.

So many competitive squads. So many fixable flaws. So many close calls.

As stated so eloquently by another poster last night - it's long past time that this organization existentially and spiritually divorce itself from 1975.
They tried that with Russ Farwell. It did not work.

The only traditon the Flyers have always maintained is stubbornness. Last year it worked great. This off season it did not work at all.

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Old
05-07-2011, 11:49 AM
  #35
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not including the last 2 ENG they allowed 30 goals in the last 7 playoff games. yeah that is all on the defense. yup sure.
Can Snider fire this guy already? Jesus Christ.

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Old
05-07-2011, 12:35 PM
  #36
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Yeah, the guy should his back up free agent goalie under the bus right before he goes on the market for a contract. Or, no, he he should throw his rookie goaltender under the bus and screw with his head.
Aside, from OD the defensemen are under contract and he is telling them he expects more from them. He is letting these guys know he expects more from them.

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Old
05-07-2011, 12:41 PM
  #37
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I dont think we can fault our goaltending at any point in the series, he said. I know it looks bad when you pull a guy all the time but goaltending, as I said before, is a function of your team.


This TERRIFIES me if he buys into it. I don't necessarily disagree with him tbh, but I think the opposite is true as well...your team is a function of your goaltending. When the team is playing their tails off and Bob/Boosh/Leights let in a softie, it crushes their confidence and drive (which shouldn't happen, but clearly did this year).

I think the Flyers played at about 150% in front of Leighton last year, which is why we made the cup. This season they seemed a bit more playing in spite of the goalie. If this team had a guy like Bryz, or Vokoun behind them to steal an occasional game, I think the team would play with much more confidence and moxie.

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Old
05-08-2011, 11:32 PM
  #38
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In other words......... GET A BONAFIDE GOALIE HOLMGREN AND STOP BEING IN DENIAL BECAUSE YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE FACE. YOU ARE FOOLING NOBODY BUT YOURSELF....

Recchi on goaltending

Quote:
"Goaltending . . . I believe, is a function of your team," Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren said.

"It plays on your mind," Bruins forward Mark Recchi said. Twice a Flyer, he has lived and died many a playoff death with it. He was there for Roman Cechmanek. The Flyers didn't score much for him, either.

"You don't have that confidence," Recchi said. "You don't know what to expect as a team, and it doesn't allow you to play the way you're supposed to play, the way you want to play."


Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1LpFpXDO2

Meltzer on the goaltending dilemma

Quote:
Last year after the Stanley Cup Final, it suddenly became fashionable around the NHL to say that a team can win with "average" goaltending as long as it scores enough and has a strong team defense in place. I never agreed with that idea. While a team need not have a big-name goalie to reach the Final or win the Cup, the goalie (regardless of his past reputation) has to play solid hockey and inspire confidence in his team.

It's not just about how many goals a team's goaltender gives up. It's not even about save percentage. It's about making timely saves. It's about not letting up a soft goal when your team is down by one or has just scratched and clawed to get on the board. It's about making a few difficult stops with the score tied in the third period.

When a team receives consistently strong goaltending, it skates with more energy and confidence. The defensive play actually becomes more alert and, when an opposing goal is scored, the genuine attitude is, "No problem. We'll get it back and we won't give up another one." At the offensive end, the team is more dynamic in its forecheck because it doesn't have to constantly worry what will happen if the other team gets a counterattack.

On the flip side, if a team has to hold its breath every time the puck goes over their blueline -- when every opposition shot is a potential goal or dangerous rebound no matter the angle or distance -- it quickly saps energy. Nothing in hockey is as disheartening as having to battle for real estate and getting repeatedly denied by the opposing goalie and then giving up a softie in your end of the ice.

Yes, it is responsibility of every position player on the ice to do his own job as effectively as possible regardless of the play of the goaltender. Defense is everyone's responsibility, and there are times every goalie needs help with a key block, a rebound clear or a stick lift on the backcheck to prevent a surefire goal. But team D and goaltending work in syngery. When one falls apart for long enough, the other goes with it. When one truly shines, the other picks up to a level suitable for winning.

Continue: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...art-I/45/35732

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Old
05-09-2011, 01:51 PM
  #39
IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
In other words......... GET A BONAFIDE GOALIE HOLMGREN AND STOP BEING IN DENIAL BECAUSE YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE FACE. YOU ARE FOOLING NOBODY BUT YOURSELF....

Recchi on goaltending




Meltzer on the goaltending dilemma
I agree with Meltzer. Shaky goaltending kills confidence. The team played like crap after most of the bad goals.

While everyone is too blame, I like Laviolette a lot. The only issue I had with him was how he didn't seem to matchup the Krejci line at all, that line killed us.

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