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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2011 (part 6)

View Poll Results: Who would you trade for Kyle Turris?
Brendan Gallagher 1 3.57%
Nathan Beaulieu 0 0%
Lars Eller 1 3.57%
Alexander Avtsin & Michael Bournival 2 7.14%
Louis Leblanc & Yannick Weber 4 14.29%
Two first round picks 0 0%
One first round and two (or three) second round picks 0 0%
Nope! Ain't gonna do it. 20 71.43%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-06-2011, 04:52 PM
  #1
overlords
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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2011 (part 6)

continue here.

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Old
05-07-2011, 04:43 PM
  #2
Oleg Petrov
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COL - STL (What if)

At the deadline the biggest move that was made was the following involving STL & COL.

To COL: Erik Johnson, Jay McClement & A 1ST RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.
To STL: Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart & 2ND RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.

Would you have been happy if MTL had of done a similar deal?

To COL: PK Subban, Mathieu Darche & a 1st rnd pick in 2011 or 2012
To MTL: Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart & 2ND RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.

Would you do it? Would Colorado have preffered it?

Personally I think COL got hosed in that deal, and yes I would have moved PK for that package.

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Old
05-07-2011, 04:48 PM
  #3
Subban76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Petrov View Post
At the deadline the biggest move that was made was the following involving STL & COL.

To COL: Erik Johnson, Jay McClement & A 1ST RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.
To STL: Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart & 2ND RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.

Would you have been happy if MTL had of done a similar deal?

To COL: PK Subban, Mathieu Darche & a 1st rnd pick in 2011 or 2012
To MTL: Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart & 2ND RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.

Would you do it? Would Colorado have preffered it?

Personally I think COL got hosed in that deal, and yes I would have moved PK for that package.
With the fact that MaxPac seems to be our powerforward we were looking for, NO.

PK is 22 and will potentially be a Norris candidate for years to come. No.

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05-07-2011, 04:56 PM
  #4
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No way, Darche is too much valuable as a player to trade him.

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Old
05-07-2011, 05:14 PM
  #5
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No way, Darche is too much valuable as a player to trade him.
Glad I'm not the only one seeing this would be worse Habs trade in history.

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Old
05-07-2011, 05:18 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
With the fact that MaxPac seems to be our powerforward we were looking for, NO.

PK is 22 and will potentially be a Norris candidate for years to come. No.
Kevin Shattenkirk is also 22.

In 72 games, Kevin notched 43 points and finished with a +/- of -4. It's to be noted that he finished the season with St. Louis and was a +7 with them. In 77 games, Subban finished with 38 points and a -8.

So if at this point, Subban is a future Norris candidate, then so is Shattenkirk.

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Old
05-07-2011, 05:24 PM
  #7
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Blues wouldn't even consider this IMO. I like Subban, but if this was offered to the Habs and they don't take it I'd be a bit disappointed. Shattenkirk is going to be a very good offensive D, not as good defensively as Subban but offensively he's on par if not better. Stewart has 40 goal potential and just what our top 6 needs.

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Old
05-07-2011, 05:33 PM
  #8
Subban76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Kevin Shattenkirk is also 22.

In 72 games, Kevin notched 43 points and finished with a +/- of -4. It's to be noted that he finished the season with St. Louis and was a +7 with them. In 77 games, Subban finished with 38 points and a -8.

So if at this point, Subban is a future Norris candidate, then so is Shattenkirk.
That's just stats. I like Shattenkirk a lot, but he does not bring what Subban does. He's not the whole package like Subban is. I don't see Shattenkirk's game as Norris type.

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05-07-2011, 05:33 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Kevin Shattenkirk is also 22.

In 72 games, Kevin notched 43 points and finished with a +/- of -4. It's to be noted that he finished the season with St. Louis and was a +7 with them. In 77 games, Subban finished with 38 points and a -8.

So if at this point, Subban is a future Norris candidate, then so is Shattenkirk.
Fact: plus minus is stupid ****. I remember Marek Malik had the best plus minus one year so I guess he was also the best defenseman

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05-07-2011, 05:41 PM
  #10
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That's just stats. I like Shattenkirk a lot, but he does not bring what Subban does. He's not the whole package like Subban is. I don't see Shattenkirk's game as Norris type.
I guess it's a matter of opinion at this point. Both have played a full season now, and while Subban is more flashy of a player, Shattenkirk is a solid defenseman as well. I think it's too early to label either one of them as the entire package right now, but I'd say they're both on the same level and headed down the same path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyShea View Post
Fact: plus minus is stupid ****. I remember Marek Malik had the best plus minus one year so I guess he was also the best defenseman
I know. Just a little extra something to throw out there to show how similar they are in terms of production and stats.

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05-07-2011, 05:42 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Glad I'm not the only one seeing this would be worse Habs trade in history.
I dont make the deal because PK is a star in the making and a special talent

but the deal on paper is a fair one

Shattenkirk is solid for 10-12 years ....if he becomes a Rafalski type whats wrong with that ?

Stewart is a horse who will be a 30 goal 60 point guy for a decade and exactly what I need down low right now ...whats wrong with that ?

as for the picks only time will tell

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05-07-2011, 05:45 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Blues wouldn't even consider this IMO. I like Subban, but if this was offered to the Habs and they don't take it I'd be a bit disappointed. Shattenkirk is going to be a very good offensive D, not as good defensively as Subban but offensively he's on par if not better. Stewart has 40 goal potential and just what our top 6 needs.
agreed ...you dont hang up right away on the is deal

I dont move Subban but the trade will be a steal for us if Stewart scores 30+

all that Kevin is missing is some grit to his game ..the dude is solid

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05-07-2011, 05:50 PM
  #13
Subban76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
I dont make the deal because PK is a star in the making and a special talent but the deal on paper is a fair one

Shattenkirk is solid for 10-12 years ....if he becomes a Rafalski type whats wrong with that ?

Stewart is a horse who will be a 30 goal 60 point guy for a decade and exactly what I need down low right now ...whats wrong with that ?

as for the picks only time will tell
This!

I agree its a fair deal, but there's something about Subban that the other 2 guys don't have. And I'm not talking about being flashy.

I'd rather keep a star than get 2 solid players at this point

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05-07-2011, 05:56 PM
  #14
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I would've pulled the trigger on that deal. It would've been a hard decision factoring Subban's skills, work ethic, intangibles and incredible passion for the game and the Habs, but you can't pass a deal where you not only get a young defenseman of similar caliber (although probably not close in terms of intangible and passion), but you also get one of the best young powerforwards in the game. Having Stewart and Pacioretty would make our two top 6 lines very hard to stop and would answer our size problem against teams like the Bruins and the Flyers. This is all hypothetical though and I'm still ecstatic about Subban's perfomance this year.

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05-07-2011, 05:57 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Kevin Shattenkirk is also 22.

In 72 games, Kevin notched 43 points and finished with a +/- of -4. It's to be noted that he finished the season with St. Louis and was a +7 with them. In 77 games, Subban finished with 38 points and a -8.

So if at this point, Subban is a future Norris candidate, then so is Shattenkirk.
At even-strength Shattenkirk faced soft opposition and started more shifts in the offensive zone than the defensive zone (60% of the time in the offensive zone, ignoring all neutral zone faceoffs). Subban wasn't completely opposite, but he played tougher competition and started more of his shifts in the defensive zone (48% O-Zone%). Shattenkirk's teams also had normal shooting luck when he was out there while Subban was slightly below normal.

If Subban had played in the situations Shattenkirk had (easy opposition, loads of offensive zone faceoffs) he would have probably had more points and a better +/- than Shattenkirk. It's more difficult to rack up the impressive counting stats when you're playing the role of a top-4 defenseman rather than a bottom-pairing guy against weak competition.

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05-07-2011, 07:10 PM
  #16
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There is no way the Bruins would hate on Shattenkirk.

Thus, Subban stays in Montreal.

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05-07-2011, 07:51 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Kevin Shattenkirk is also 22.

In 72 games, Kevin notched 43 points and finished with a +/- of -4. It's to be noted that he finished the season with St. Louis and was a +7 with them. In 77 games, Subban finished with 38 points and a -8.

So if at this point, Subban is a future Norris candidate, then so is Shattenkirk.
Shattenkirk also played on the team (Colorado) with the most offense and not defense. Mtl and Col employed different strategies and PK got almost as many points in a much more defensive system...

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05-07-2011, 08:10 PM
  #18
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I think the difference between Subban and Shattenkirk is small enough to make the addition of Stewart a steal.

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05-07-2011, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
This!

I agree its a fair deal, but there's something about Subban that the other 2 guys don't have. And I'm not talking about being flashy.

I'd rather keep a star than get 2 solid players at this point
agreed buddy PK is special and the last time we had that dman was probably Larry Robinson or maybe Chelios but Chelly didnt have PK `s wheels

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05-07-2011, 08:31 PM
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The thing with PK isn't just his point production or plus minus. The kid brings intangibles that can't be measured. He's a money player like how Roy was for us. He plays better when the cards are down and lifts his team to the next level. Not only is he a star but he's a future super star IMO.

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05-07-2011, 10:16 PM
  #21
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That's not even the same value as what St. Louis gave up, with Johnson's potential he definitely has a higher value around the league right now than Subban even if he hasn't reached his potential yet. Also Darche shouldn't be a regular player for a playoff team in the NHL while McClement is one of the better penalty killers in the league. Valuewise I'd do that trade for sure but we would've had to give up more than Subban and friggin Darche to get that.

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Old
05-08-2011, 08:08 AM
  #22
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agreed buddy PK is special and the last time we had that dman was probably Larry Robinson or maybe Chelios but Chelly didnt have PK `s wheels
Maybe Chelly,but too compare him to Robinson, one of the top 5 dmen in the past 40 yrs ? Gimme a break .

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05-08-2011, 08:19 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by jlgib21 View Post
Maybe Chelly,but too compare him to Robinson, one of the top 5 dmen in the past 40 yrs ? Gimme a break .
Don't laugh. PK certainly has the potential to be that. Very little guys have is pure athletism.

BTW, PK, at the same age is ahead of Robinson who was in the AHL. Next year, when PK as another great year, well at the same age Robinson was still in the AHL and finally made the Habs at mid season with a whopping 6 pts in 36 games. Followed by a season of 26 pts in 78 games. PK, 2 years younger in a league where their is less offense is way surpassing Robinson.

Will PK be greater for sure??? Who knows, but he certainly has the talent and potential and as started is career this way.


Last edited by Subban76: 05-08-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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Old
05-08-2011, 08:37 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Petrov View Post
At the deadline the biggest move that was made was the following involving STL & COL.

To COL: Erik Johnson, Jay McClement & A 1ST RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.
To STL: Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart & 2ND RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.

Would you have been happy if MTL had of done a similar deal?

To COL: PK Subban, Mathieu Darche & a 1st rnd pick in 2011 or 2012
To MTL: Kevin Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart & 2ND RND PICK IN 2011 OR 2012.

Would you do it? Would Colorado have preffered it?

Personally I think COL got hosed in that deal, and yes I would have moved PK for that package.
Johnson > subban
McClement > Darche (as an absolute value)
1st pick STL > 1st pick MTL

so cant really compare

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Old
05-08-2011, 08:41 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
Johnson > subbanMcClement > Darche (as an absolute value)
1st pick STL > 1st pick MTL

so cant really compare
People say this because of the Jonhson hype and there draft order, but I'm not convinced of that. I see very similar values.

Wouldn't be the first time that a 2nd rounder surpasses a top pick.

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