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How close is Grachev?

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Old
05-07-2011, 01:05 PM
  #51
RangerBlues
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Another full year at the A with a few cup-a-coffee call up to check on progress.
Too soon to think about dealing him unless it's for a big deal.

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Old
05-07-2011, 01:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If a Grachev throw in is what it takes to get us a LWer to play on a top line, so be it.
Grachev is not going to be the difference between netting us that top line LW. That's my point. Throw in some other prospect like Bourque and I won't be upset.

It's well known that big guys like Grachev tend to develop slower. Why give away his potential to another team if another prospect will do the job?

I seriously doubt there is a situation where Grachev is the deal-breaker in order to get bone-fide top-end talent coming back. If he is, then so be it if the deal is good. I just don't see that happening though.

If he ends up as a Ryan McDonagh type throw-in, I'm going to be pissed.

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Old
05-07-2011, 01:50 PM
  #53
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Two words...Johan. Franzen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Franzen

Picked 97th overall 2004
Didnt do squat in the SEL.
Came to NHL in 2006 @ age of 26
Didnt do squat in the NHL till 2008
Now....priceless and every fan of the other 29 NHL teams wet dream.

Give Grachev time, he's not even 26...... he's 20, twenty, twenty, 20, two-zero, TWENTY!

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Old
05-07-2011, 02:08 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I don't see him making the team this year, I think he stays in Connecticut for another year, then will have a good shot at the team in 2012-2013

I can see him getting called up mid-season and staying up here permanently.

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Old
05-07-2011, 02:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
I don't think the problem is that he lacks any particular attribute. I think the problem is his ability to put it all together. If he had Stepan's brain (hockey sense, vision, patience, leadership), Grachev would be a first liner already.

But he does not and hockey is not a skills competition. You can just have a big body skating fast hoping that he'll use his hard shot. He has to get in the right position, know when to pass and when to stickhandle, do all the little things that result in a player being in position to score.

He lacks that. I don't have huge hopes for him being a top-6 forward.

I think Prust - Boyle - Feds/Hagelin is a great third line, and if we got another line of Grachev - Werek - Weise to perform on the same level, we would have tremendous depth in the bottom-6 that would actually give us a boost in scoring the same way a good bench can help an NBA team's starters. They wouldn't be our primary scorers, but they would chip in enough goals to make up for at least part of the top-6 offensive deficiencies.

For more on this, see: Devils circa 1995.

From what little I saw of him in the pre-season, he looked like a lost sheep. Embarrassingly so.

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Old
05-07-2011, 04:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Two words...Johan. Franzen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Franzen

Picked 97th overall 2004
Didnt do squat in the SEL.
Came to NHL in 2006 @ age of 26
Didnt do squat in the NHL till 2008
Now....priceless and every fan of the other 29 NHL teams wet dream.

Give Grachev time, he's not even 26...... he's 20, twenty, twenty, 20, two-zero, TWENTY!
Going to take awhile until he puts it all together. Those bigger bodies are usually a work in progress, which I don't even feel Grachev will be. But you're absolutely right. Losing patience with a 20 year old is ridiculous.

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Old
05-08-2011, 01:25 AM
  #57
Orr Nightmare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
If a Grachev throw in is what it takes to get us a LWer to play on a top line, so be it.
What LWer, because if we are talking about a 32 year with declining numbers then that would just be dumb...

If you are talking Bobby Ryan, Rick Nash, JVR, Jamie Benn...then I wouldn't be against it.

This is kid is growing into his buddy and learning how to use it. He is progressing...I would much rather throw in Hagelin or Horak or Bourque or Fasth before I am throwing him into anything.

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Old
05-08-2011, 01:27 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
From what little I saw of him in the pre-season, he looked like a lost sheep. Embarrassingly so.
Well that is enough to convince me....lets burn the *******!

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Old
05-08-2011, 01:29 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Jamal Myers + 7th.
We are not giving up enough in the trade...throw Thomas in and then maybe they will consider it.

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Old
05-08-2011, 01:39 AM
  #60
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Is another season in the A HLthe best course, or playing him on a line with Boyle and Prust (for example) where he will get some meaningful NHL minutes but not be expected to produce too much?

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Old
05-08-2011, 02:52 AM
  #61
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Hfboards, where a 20 year old first year is a bust.

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Old
05-08-2011, 05:59 AM
  #62
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Anyone who is saying we should move him is off base IMO. First, he's got minimal value and second, he's a nice prospect who is only 20. ya really need to let him develop.

Having said that, I've seen quite a lot of mr grachev. He's free kin huge but he doesn't really play big.

He's pretty fast for a big guy, but not that fast with the puck. He's a guy who shouldn't have the puck that long anyway. Get it, dish it, and go to the net. The more he handles the puck, the more he will look slow.

He's got some scoring ability for sure, but he's not in position to score with the puck nearly enough. He needs to just go to the net hard with the puck whenever he has it downlow. He's a load, he needs to exploit that advantage. He doesn't enough and that's one of his biggest problems.

Bottom line, he needs to be the whales best forward, then he'll be ready, he s not, so he's not ready yet.

He's got tools, he just needs to figure out what kind of player he is and start producing.

And as someone said earlier in this thread, he looked clueless in camp last year. He was 6'4 and 210 lbs of invisible. That needs to change. Hes hard to miss out there unless he's doing nothing. he needs to make some plays and score some dirty goals and make people notice him.

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Old
05-08-2011, 06:23 AM
  #63
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Trading Grachev is definitely the type of trade we'd regret in 5 years

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Old
05-08-2011, 07:10 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
Is another season in the A HLthe best course, or playing him on a line with Boyle and Prust (for example) where he will get some meaningful NHL minutes but not be expected to produce too much?
This could be viable. Arty did play between 3rd/4th line his 1st year in too.

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05-08-2011, 07:24 AM
  #65
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According to Mitch Beck, he's thisclose to the ECHL.

But, then again, Mitch Beck thinks Hugh Jessiman has a future, so grain of salt.

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Old
05-08-2011, 08:18 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Hfboards, where a 20 year old first year is a bust.
Alternatively: "Hfboards, where every prospect 'just needs some time.'"

That said, I'll go with BlushirtBlitz on this. There's no reason to feel the kid must be moved in the next year or two. Likewise, there's no reason to to feel he can't be moved in a good deal.

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05-08-2011, 10:15 AM
  #67
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Let him be. His numbers improved last year and he played about 8 NHL games. In about half of those games he looked like he was starting to get it and use his body.

He'll get there, just need time and patience.

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Old
05-08-2011, 10:36 AM
  #68
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looking at the LW depth chart he does have a shot with Dubinsky the only long term solution. Wolski and Avery I believe will be back this yr but after that I doubt it so Grachev, Hagelin, Kreider have legit shots at stepping in.

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Old
05-08-2011, 04:06 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Two words...Johan. Franzen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Franzen

Picked 97th overall 2004
Didnt do squat in the SEL.
Came to NHL in 2006 @ age of 26
Didnt do squat in the NHL till 2008
Now....priceless and every fan of the other 29 NHL teams wet dream.

Give Grachev time, he's not even 26...... he's 20, twenty, twenty, 20, two-zero, TWENTY!
For every Franzen there are 500 big young players that never make it. Grachev might develop, but right now his only asset is his age.

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Old
05-08-2011, 05:21 PM
  #70
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
For every Franzen there are 500 big young players that never make it. Grachev might develop, but right now his only asset is his age.
Why are you a Ranger fan again?

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Old
05-08-2011, 05:29 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Why are you a Ranger fan again?
There's no reason that being skeptical of Grachev makes him not a fan.

The fact is Grachev didn't live up to the hype. Not his fault. Let's see if he continues his last half of this season into all of next year. If he does we possibly have a bottom 6 player in him right now. If he doesn't I doubt he becomes Johan Franzen. That's just wishful thinking.

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05-08-2011, 05:47 PM
  #72
chosen
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Why are you a Ranger fan again?
I am a fan of the Rangers and hockey. You are a fan of no-talent goons, no matter the uniform they wear, as evidenced by your name here.

Because I do not blindly worship every player drafted by the Rangers does not mean I do not root for the team. I am not surprised that you do not grasp these basic concepts.

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Old
05-08-2011, 05:48 PM
  #73
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If Grachev does not make the team as a regular next season I think he will go back to Russia and play in the KHL.

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Old
05-08-2011, 05:49 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Why are you a Ranger fan again?
Why do differing opinions eventually devolve into the questioning of someones fan cred?


Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

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Old
05-08-2011, 08:08 PM
  #75
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Do you want to know the problem Grachev is having?

In juniors he was able to carry the puck for as long as he wanted to because of his natural skill and size. Once he got to the AHL, the coaches realized this and tried to change his game to a more give-and-go type of power forward game which would translate MUCH better to the NHL when he makes the jump.

He is going through the growing pains that MOST big players go through when they reach a level of competition where they cant simply dominate with their size. Grachev just happens to have to change his game. That is the reason the Rangers wanted him in the AHL ASAP. That is why he excelled with a player like Stepan who can control the puck and dish it off.

He is SO close to putting it all together and when he does it will be night-and-day. People will be clamoring that he is a top-6 LW again. Until then people will continue to be down on him.

People just don't seem to fully grasp the complexities of moving from juniors to the pros for a big skilled player like Grachev which is understandable. Players his size with his skill-set don't come along all that often(and no, I am not saying he is a generational talent, just that he is a power-forward who isnt a fighter).

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