You need to keep in mind there are 3 better left-wingers than him that would be placed on the PP before him.
Better based on what? I understand Cammalleri and Gionta being LW and RW sure shots. However, pacioretty and AK are equally as talented as Pouliot. BP has even beat them in EV PTS/TOI as evidenced by the other chart. We can say quality of opposition and all that, but even if AK and Maxpac are better, doesn't mean pouliot is a bad player. He still needs PP time, just like them.
I'd want nothing more then for him to live up to his potential but I'm afraid its just not going to happen. He is what he is and i doubt he'll ever be better than this.
It's hard to really put a finger on what has exactly gone wrong with Pouliots development so far. He has all the talent in the world, he's just missing a little je ne sais quoi...
There's a chance he's a late bloomer, so I certainly wouldn't want to give him away. And considering all 4 of our centers are offensive minded, he fits on our bottom 6 like a glove...
I don't think he was on the Habs' radar at the draft. Actually, I wouldn't know, but I hope not. That was a pretty terrible pick. You have to think development was less than effective for him, but that was a high-risk pick to begin with. I don't put much stock in his supposed "work ethic issues"; rather, I think he lacks the hockey sense and the awareness to be an effective NHLer. It's a shame, because he has the physical tools, but there you go.
And I'm not sure where this fashion of blaming the coach comes from in this case. Pouliot is a regular at Martin's hockey school and you would think that, if anything, the coach would be predisposed towards him rather than against him. The reason Pouliot hasn't been used by the coach is that whenever the coach tried to use him in a role other than the one he ended up with, he flopped. Pouliot simply isn't capable of handling top-6 matchups, and even third-line matchups are a stretch for him. That's why Martin didn't use him other than on the fourth line, not because he is young.
Putting up points on the fourth line has value, but at some point, you can only have so many players you need to shelter.
And the coach using Gomez consistently -- which he had excellent reasons to, mind -- does not constitute a ready-made excuse to question his every other decision.
I like Pouliot. Thing is, he seems very shy and differs from the personality of say, a PK Subban. Pouliot seems like an introvert and by such, I'd imagine his confidence and quesitoning of his own ability fluctuate pretty often. This guy has tremendous skill and a willingness to get better, but at same time, I think he's not going in the right direction. 3rd line duties are fine, but give the guy a little PP time. Really, the level of PP time this guy gets is insanely low:
He's 16th on the team in PP TOI/G
He's 23rd in TOI/G
1:37 total TOI SH. Good for 26th on the team, an TOI SH/G of 0:01.
Really, he's not been given confidence to play much EV, much SH or much PP.
If we do a chart based on EV PTS/ EV TOI:
Yeah, I'm bored so I took the time to do it. BP is one of the best EV performers on the team, I did everybody on the team so you have reference. BTW, I rounded minutes down because I wasn't in the mood to calculate what every second converted to fraction was. If there's a mistake, let me know.
Edit: I missed Dawes, but basically 0 EV PTS so irrelevant.
Thanks for adding on. It's mind boggling (well, not really seeing the way Martin is handling the youth) to see how short of a leash Pouliot has had. The same could have been said about Latendresse before him. Yet Kostitsyn has had 5 years of slack.
Coming from the poster who said the Bruins were the most overrated team in the East and would be the best match-up for the Habs...
Back to Pools, nobody really knows whether or not he is or will be a flop.
What we do know is that at ~ 1 Million, we'd have to be stupid to give up on a player that is 6'3, skates well and can score 15.... playing the 3rd line.
I mean, if we're ready to give up on a cheap 24 year old talent who is still a few years removed from his prime, we should sooner be ready to give up on a 7.3 million cap sucking 31 year old who is good for 45 points (or, 70 points with a bit of luck )
Coming from the poster who said the Bruins were the most overrated team in the East and would be the best match-up for the Habs...
And look what happened: the Habs were actually better and the Bruins needed all their loose change and a great deal of luck to win it in 7, going 3-0 in overtime in the process. And the Habs actually outscored the Bruins if you dismiss the empty-netter. In other words... the Bruins were the best available match-up for the Habs.
Pretty hilarious you'd attack me on this after the way the series went.
Hockey's a game where the better team doesn't always win; you'd think that after the playoffs last year Hab fans would recognize that. You can either recognize this and deal with it, or remain clueless. Unfortunately, Boston got lucky and the Habs didn't, and that was that.
I still maintain the Bruins are the weakest club in the playoffs, incidentally. Unfortunately, Philly blew it, not least because they were idiots about their goaltending.
Pouliot has the right skill set to be a star player in this league, maybe not a super star but a star and can score 30 goals with a good play making centre, however, he has serious off ice issues and problems (that I know for a fact).
In my opinion, he will never live up to expectations and the 4th overall status, he should be packaged with a draft pick or prospect to get a better asset in Montreal, maybe a defenseman or possibly a really good young centre (a la Eller and Leblanc).
I occurred to me that Pouliot was drafted and played mainly as a centre. We saw how bad Eller was when he was put on the wing. Who's to say that Pouliot wouldn't prosper from playing his natural position and gain the confidence he's desperately lacking that we all saw with Eller.
He was scouted by the Habs to be the big, skilled centre they've always coveted so why play him on wing when we acquired him. I saw play him as the 3rd line centre and hope he can start to gain some confidence. Who knows, maybe he can work his way up the depth chart and eventually step in for Gomez which at this point wouldn't be all hat hard to do.
I fully realize this is a pipe dream but hey, it's May and there's no Habs hockey so my mind is wondering.
24 years old, big, fast and some decent offensive skills. I'd give him one more year to prove himself. I'm sure he'll be a great player one day, but I don't know it will be with Jacques Martin...
Nailed it. Pouliot will be a successful hockey player under the right coach. Jacques Martin is not that right coach.
Pouliot needs someone who does not lose confidence in him after he takes a penalty or makes a turnover. Martin's quick benching after a mistake led to Benny's complete loss of self confidence.
Pouliot was on a roll with the Habs until the Vancouver game when he took a penalty at the end of the 2nd Period. Martin benched him for the entire 3rd Period. He then had his minutes cut from around 15 minutes per game down to less than 10 for the remainder of the season. He had a couple of games that were over 10 minutes TOI.
Pouliot never recovered from that and he began his inability to score and yes, his inability to even stay on his skates.
I would love to see Pouliot stay here as he is a talented kid and is willing to fight if needed. But, with Martin here, we may as well trade him. It will suck to read about him scoring goals for another team just like Sergei is right now. And it will happen. But, sadly for us, it is what it is.
I like Pouliot. Thing is, he seems very shy and differs from the personality of say, a PK Subban. Pouliot seems like an introvert and by such, I'd imagine his confidence and quesitoning of his own ability fluctuate pretty often. This guy has tremendous skill and a willingness to get better, but at same time, I think he's not going in the right direction. 3rd line duties are fine, but give the guy a little PP time. Really, the level of PP time this guy gets is insanely low:
He's 16th on the team in PP TOI/G
He's 23rd in TOI/G
1:37 total TOI SH. Good for 26th on the team, an TOI SH/G of 0:01.
Really, he's not been given confidence to play much EV, much SH or much PP.
If we do a chart based on EV PTS/ EV TOI:
Yeah, I'm bored so I took the time to do it. BP is one of the best EV performers on the team, I did everybody on the team so you have reference. BTW, I rounded minutes down because I wasn't in the mood to calculate what every second converted to fraction was. If there's a mistake, let me know.
Edit: I missed Dawes, but basically 0 EV PTS so irrelevant.
Great post. This sums up why Pouliot struggled this year. He was not allowed to play through and learn on the ice from his mistakes.
That being said, I wouldn't let im go, I'd rater see Moen walk
A line of Pouliot-Desharnais-Eller would be amazing
I think your crazy to let Moen walk over Pouliot, just compare them in the playoffs Moen is willing to make sacrafices and play hard shift in and shift out.
The coach is more comfortable with him as a result.
The team is going to need vetrans who giver as we have alot of young inexperienced guys like Eller or Desharnais. He was great on the pk in the playoffs.
Its probably more between Kostitsyn and Pouliot for a roster spot, battle of the most inconsistant players on the team I think Kostitsyn wins as while more expensive he is just all around better and shows more effort.
And look what happened: the Habs were actually better and the Bruins needed all their loose change and a great deal of luck to win it in 7, going 3-0 in overtime in the process. And the Habs actually outscored the Bruins if you dismiss the empty-netter. In other words... the Bruins were the best available match-up for the Habs.
Pretty hilarious you'd attack me on this after the way the series went.
Hockey's a game where the better team doesn't always win; you'd think that after the playoffs last year Hab fans would recognize that. You can either recognize this and deal with it, or remain clueless. Unfortunately, Boston got lucky and the Habs didn't, and that was that.
I still maintain the Bruins are the weakest club in the playoffs, incidentally. Unfortunately, Philly blew it, not least because they were idiots about their goaltending.
They came down 2-0 in the series. Hard to imagine them being weakest in the east even if we happen to win in 7 games. Even if we scored that OT goal in game 7, your prediction on the B's was a weak one. B's would beat Caps, Rags and Pens easily too.
And I'm not attacking you at all, I'm just reminding you that you have been wrong in the past and that your ''he lacks hockey sense'' is completely inaccurate and a non-issue - imo.
His hockey sense is pretty good, it's his confidence that takes a huge dip. And maybe it comes down to his inability to maintain balance and stay on his skates, which affects his game and consequently confidence. But hey, he's 24, cheap and has talent -- lets cut the ties with him, while we continue to protect our high-cap under-achievers.
Coming from the poster who said the Bruins were the most overrated team in the East and would be the best match-up for the Habs...
Euhhh, still waiting for the punch line there...
The Bruins WERE the best match up for the Habs, and they probably were the most overrated team in the East. Although, I would say most team in the East had question marks around them.
Wsh..questions about their PO leadership.
Philly..goaltending.
Bruins...major choke from last year, question about how they would bounce back but pretty much everybody chose them to move on.
Pitts..injuries.
TB..possible ''surprise'' team.
Mtl..injuries.
Buf..possible upset team.
NYR..no chance.
Boston isn't that good of a team. They're not bad, at all, but they're not that good either, and they were the best match up for us. I don't see why you would contradict that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE
Back to Pools, nobody really knows whether or not he is or will be a flop.
What we do know is that at ~ 1 Million, we'd have to be stupid to give up on a player that is 6'3, skates well and can score 15.... playing the 3rd line.
I mean, if we're ready to give up on a cheap 24 year old talent who is still a few years removed from his prime, we should sooner be ready to give up on a 7.3 million cap sucking 31 year old who is good for 45 points (or, 70 points with a bit of luck )
I crack myself up.. ok Ill stop now
Pouliot, as of today, is a flop. He was chosen 4th overall and hasn't shown much sign of being able to live up to that draft pick. Now, maybe your understanding of a flop will defer.
AK is a flop. He's still good, and is a safe bet for 20G a year, but when you look at his draft position/year, he's a flop.
The way I define whether or not they're flops is if they live up to what was expected of them when they were drafted. Pouliot hasn't lived up to it, at least so far. For that reason, I call him a flop. Maybe he will be a late bloomer and have progressing seasons of 50/60/80+/80+/80+pts, but until then, I'll view him as a flop.
That doesn't mean I'm not interested in bringing him back. I think there's absolutely no risk in re-signing him. He's young, he's cheap, and can bring some aggressivity. With our depth down the middle, we should definitely keep him around for at least another year.
Sitting at his table at the amateur draft back in 2005, having to select fifth overall, Bob Gainey has his plan of action. His target? Benoit Pouliot, a 6’2″ French-Canadian winger who just finished his rookie season with the Sudbury Wolves with 67 points including 29 goals in 67 games. However, the Minnesota Wild picks him just ahead of the Canadiens… who then have to go to plan B: Carey Price.
Pouliot returned to the Wolves where he collected 65 points, 35 of them goals, in only 51 games. He then struggled to bring his game to the next level, going back and forth between Houston and Minnesota for the next 3 years, before being traded to the Canadiens on November 23, 2009 for Guillaume Latendresse. We know the rest. Pouliot finished the season strong collecting 15 goals in 39 games for the Habs, playing on a line with Scott Gomez and Brian Gionta.
Where did you read he was Gainey's no.1 target? Its far from being a fact as far as Im concerned.. Second, he never teared up the OHL.. Third, if he really worked on his legs strength during the past off season, it certainly didnt appear during the season.. Fourth, do you seriously think Martin will risk to lose games just in hope Benoit Pouliot become the player some of you think he can be? lol
He had plenty of chances to prove the coach he deserved more ice time on the top lines and never gave his coach a reason to do this..
As far as Im concerned, we have a very hyped kid who will never establish himself as a good NHLer..
Last edited by NewHabsEra: 05-09-2011 at 12:22 AM.
I have been a fan of Pouliot even when he was in junior. I really like the guy and think he has the talent to be a top 6 forward. I don't think he got much of a chance in the playoffs either. I would have had him in the line up instead of tommy pyatt. All that said, I can't see PG bringing him back. What if we tried him with Plekanec and Cammy.
Cammy-Pleks-Pouliot
Maxpac-Gomez-Gionta
Kostitsyn-Eller-Upshall(sign him pls)
Moen-Desharnais-White
This might work, but we might be better off just finding a top 6 forward in the free agency.
I'd say hang on to him for now, play him as a third line winger.
I don't think he's confident enough for top 6 duties yet.
Looking at the past season, it appears to me (I don't have the stats to back this up, maybe one of you more stat minded people can show if my reasoning is right or wrong) that Pouliot's best two spans of the season where back on the PHD line and then with Desharnais and Darche.
Common factor: Darche. Maybe its his work ethic, maybe they just get along, or maybe it's his presence in front of the net that assists Pouliot's signature shot from the top of the left face off circle reach the net.
He's an up and down player, when he's up he's great but when he's down, man is he down.
