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Should the Rangers Sign Simon Gagne If They Sign Brad Richards?

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Old
05-08-2011, 05:43 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
If we land Richards, many here have proposed the idea of signing Simon Gagne to fill the first line left wing position. Gagne in his current expiring contract has a $5.25 million cap hit and is 31. He tallied just 17 goals this season, but has averaged a solid 23 goals over his 11 year career, twice cracking the 40 goal mark with 47 is 05'-06' and 41 in 06'-07'.

Gagne is clearly an offensively talented player, and with Richards I say he could net around thirty or so pretty confidently. We may be able to take advantage of his age and his less than average contract year and sign him for a little cheaper than his current cap hit. Thoughts?
I know we are in desperate need of offense but how many high risk/high reward gys are we going to have on the roster? Simon Gagne would be HR/HR but in a different way...he is an injury waiting to happen

EC - was a HR/HR project
WW - is a HR/HR project

IMHO pass please.

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05-08-2011, 10:05 PM
  #52
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I was thinking Gagne was the best LW on the market this summer but he looked like he got concussed in the Bolts last game. Outside of Richards, I think the Rangers need to set themselves up to have enough cap space to make at least one major signing in the 2013 UFA class which features Crosby, Iginla, Getzlaf, Perry, Horton, Roy, J.Staal, Burrows, Clowe, Enstrom, Edler, the list goes on and on.

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05-08-2011, 10:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
And he will be if he shows that he is ready. If he isn't I have no problem with him developing in CT for another year. He's still very young and there's no need to rush him.
We might not have a choice. Sophomore slumps happen, and if Gilroy is the #5, the 6th defenseman comes down to Del Zotto, Valentenko and Eminger pending him re-signing.

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Originally Posted by Janerixon View Post
Why should Del Zotto be an NHl Player next season? He has to earn himself a spot and this year he was pretty terrible, had a broken finger to end the season and is now coming off hernia surgery. His offensive game disappeared, making bad outlet passes, doing a terrible job on the PP, and he couldn't hit the net to save his life. We aren't even discussing his defensive game, Torts said he wants a puck moving d-man, that means unless MDZ wows him at camp he will be Hartford to start the season where he can get a ton of minutes.

Wishful thinking with EC? The guy can be waived and probably won't be claimed, hence he ends up in Hartford. Boogard may have to retire as he can't fight with his concussion issues and even if he tries a comeback he may not get cleared anytime soon. I have a hard time believing he will be with the team to start the season if at all.

I never said I think buying out Wolski is the best move, however his buyout # is really in our favor and if they (Torts and Sather) feel they can't get what they want from him thats their decision. I like him personally and think with a summer to know what is expected of him he can hopefully turn it around, he has so much skill he just needs to put it together, but I can also see Zherdev 2.0 where he is bought out goes to a team like Detroit and becomes a force.

Dubi getting less than 4 to 4.2 is very realistic. Lets compare him to another younger player who had a great season in their contract year. Wolski - 2009/2010 he had 24 goals, 42 assists for 66 points. Dubinsky had 24 goals and 30 assists for 54 points this season. Wolski got a 3.8 million dollar deal for 2 season... Dubinsky is not going to get 4.2 million, he may get 4 million a season for 3 years, I have him at 3.9, very very realistic.

Pitkanen made 4 million last season with the Canes, to leave them he is going to want a raise not a paycut, he can stay there for 3.5 I'm sure, I think it will take 4.5 (a doable number) to bring him into the fold.
Del Zotto is going to be a good player. With a summer to recover and work on getting stronger, and a training camp to work on his defensive game, it's very realistic that he'll be back up with the big club next season.

Tortorella seems to love Christensen, and he'll probably be back as a fourth liner or spare forward. That wouldn't really help us much at all, while the cap room would be beneficial, so hopefully he is gone. Also do hope that Boogey retires.

It would be great to get Dubinsky locked up for 4/15.5 for $3.875 Million a season, but after his hold out last time I wouldn't count on less than 4.25. Callahan should come cheaper.

Pitkanen isn't good enough to warrant a $4.5 Million contract, likely a multi-year one. Takes up yet another spot that in a season or two can be held by Tank or McIlrath. I think in 12-13 we're guaranteed to have spots filled by Staal, Girardi, Sauer, McDonagh and Del Zotto pending a trade. No need to have Pitkanen here too. One year for 3, fine, take it or leave it.

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05-08-2011, 10:30 PM
  #54
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I could not in good conscious give Pitkanen a larger salary/cap than Staal.

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05-08-2011, 11:11 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
I know we are in desperate need of offense but how many high risk/high reward gys are we going to have on the roster? Simon Gagne would be HR/HR but in a different way...he is an injury waiting to happen

EC - was a HR/HR project
WW - is a HR/HR project

IMHO pass please.
Except Gagne is no longer high risk-high reward. More like high risk-medium reward. His numbers over the past 4 seasons generally bear that out.

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05-08-2011, 11:33 PM
  #56
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yah I am against Gagne coming to the rangers.

And for the poster who said he hopes Boogard will retire. I doubt that. YES he was hurt for 3/4 of the season. But he has never had a payday like Sather gave him and he has 3 more years at that salary. He knows either the rangers will waive him and he will go to the AHL for 1.4 mill a year for three more years and play small minutes (But who cares, you are still making 1.4 million to be a hardly used player), he goes on LTIR and gets to make his money and not play or they buy him out and he gets all that money for nothing.

Why retire and throw it all away?

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05-09-2011, 02:48 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Except Gagne is no longer high risk-high reward. More like high risk-medium reward. His numbers over the past 4 seasons generally bear that out.
Except it isn't really high risk anymore because I doubt he gets anything more than $3mil/1 year

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05-09-2011, 02:50 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
I know we are in desperate need of offense but how many high risk/high reward gys are we going to have on the roster? Simon Gagne would be HR/HR but in a different way...he is an injury waiting to happen

EC - was a HR/HR project
WW - is a HR/HR project

IMHO pass please.
Please explain to me how these guys are high risk. Erik Christensen is probably the most disposable player on the roster. He makes less than a million a year. Yet, there was a shot he was going to mesh with Gaborik for an entire season on a line. That is what we call low risk, high orfreward. We gave up very little for Wojtek Wolski, and got rid of Roszival in the process. The only downside to WW is his contract. Still, easily bought out if they want. Low risk, high reward.

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05-09-2011, 02:51 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Short answer; if you can fit him without cutting any other deals short and its for one year, then yes.

Multiple years or having to sacrifice RFA contract terms? No.

Prospal-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Gagne-Stepan-Zucc/Thomas
Feds/Avery-Boyle-Prust

You could argue that we don't have enough kids, but as we saw last year injuries do happen and there will be opportunities aplenty.
I don't know how you can argue that we don't have enough "kids" when I still consider Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan, Stepan, Zuccarello/Thomas all kids. That's almost half the lineup.

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05-09-2011, 03:21 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Except it isn't really high risk anymore because I doubt he gets anything more than $3mil/1 year
OK, but basically what you are confirming with that statement is that there is no difference between him and Alex Frolov (who made 3/1 last year).

I don't want either.

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05-09-2011, 11:20 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Except it isn't really high risk anymore because I doubt he gets anything more than $3mil/1 year
And if he is in and out of the lineup with nagging injuries he is a risk because you are pencilling him in for X amount of offense...and now you can't go out and get another guy.

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05-09-2011, 11:24 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Please explain to me how these guys are high risk. Erik Christensen is probably the most disposable player on the roster. He makes less than a million a year. Yet, there was a shot he was going to mesh with Gaborik for an entire season on a line. That is what we call low risk, high orfreward. We gave up very little for Wojtek Wolski, and got rid of Roszival in the process. The only downside to WW is his contract. Still, easily bought out if they want. Low risk, high reward.
Maybe I didn't word it quite correctly, how about WW and EC are Hail Mary's? Both guys have shown flashes of skill but haven't put it together...so you are comitting both dollars (low in EC's case) but more importantly roster spots...how many more seasons do EC and WW get to "get it"

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05-09-2011, 11:39 AM
  #63
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At LW hands down Tomas Fleischmann is the much better option. Cheaper and on the rise rather than Simon Gagne who is more expensive and on the decline.

Go with Flash!!! like I've been preaching!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I was thinking Gagne was the best LW on the market this summer but he looked like he got concussed in the Bolts last game. Outside of Richards, I think the Rangers need to set themselves up to have enough cap space to make at least one major signing in the 2013 UFA class which features Crosby, Iginla, Getzlaf, Perry, Horton, Roy, J.Staal, Burrows, Clowe, Enstrom, Edler, the list goes on and on.
No he's not!

80pts in 121 gms 31 year old @ 5.25m
or
82pts in 114 gms 26 year old @ 2.6m


Last edited by vipernsx: 05-09-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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05-09-2011, 11:46 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
i get what your saying but id much rather send that same amount of money to jussi jokinen, hes finally put it together and would be a very talented young forward that can play top 6 minutes.
100% agree. He would be a great signing regardless of who else we get. Just an overall good, versatile, and reasonably-priced player.

Can't see CAR letting him go though.

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05-09-2011, 12:20 PM
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100% agree. He would be a great signing regardless of who else we get. Just an overall good, versatile, and reasonably-priced player.

Can't see CAR letting him go though.
We don't need another Matt Cullen!!! JJ would be a bad Idea. This guy has more question marks then a dr seus riddle.

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05-09-2011, 12:41 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post
We might not have a choice. Sophomore slumps happen, and if Gilroy is the #5, the 6th defenseman comes down to Del Zotto, Valentenko and Eminger pending him re-signing.



Del Zotto is going to be a good player. With a summer to recover and work on getting stronger, and a training camp to work on his defensive game, it's very realistic that he'll be back up with the big club next season.

Tortorella seems to love Christensen, and he'll probably be back as a fourth liner or spare forward. That wouldn't really help us much at all, while the cap room would be beneficial, so hopefully he is gone. Also do hope that Boogey retires.

It would be great to get Dubinsky locked up for 4/15.5 for $3.875 Million a season, but after his hold out last time I wouldn't count on less than 4.25. Callahan should come cheaper.

Pitkanen isn't good enough to warrant a $4.5 Million contract, likely a multi-year one. Takes up yet another spot that in a season or two can be held by Tank or McIlrath. I think in 12-13 we're guaranteed to have spots filled by Staal, Girardi, Sauer, McDonagh and Del Zotto pending a trade. No need to have Pitkanen here too. One year for 3, fine, take it or leave it.
You didn't counter how or why mdz is going to be with the rangers next season? He just had surgery and probably is going to take a good amount of time off, that's gonna make his offensive game which disappeared come back and suddenly he is going to have a defensive game? Torts flat out said he wants to add a puck moving defenseman that sends a signal to me that they will sign a pitkanen type to properly run the PP and let mdz develop and improve his game at the minor level.

The wolski contract shows what Dubinsky is worth, he is not going to get 4.25 from sather unless he signs a 4-6 year deal which seems a bit odd as his numbers will probably improve and he is locking himself into a long term deal. I see a 3 year deal for 3.9 a season.

Pitkanen is a player i am not in love with but I can see sather overpaying for his services, have you seen our track record with d-men via ufa (redden, Malik, markhov, etc). To get him it is going to cost and he isn't going to take a spot from a kid as the 6th spot will be open to competition between valentenko and mcilrath and gilroy as the 7man if he comes back or eminger back as the 7th man. Torts wants a puck moving d-man and it will be pitkanen or someone brought in.

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05-09-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
We don't need another Matt Cullen!!! JJ would be a bad Idea. This guy has more question marks then a dr seus riddle.
Another Matt Cullen would be Brooks Laich. JJ would be a fine addition IMO.

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05-09-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Maybe I didn't word it quite correctly, how about WW and EC are Hail Mary's? Both guys have shown flashes of skill but haven't put it together...so you are comitting both dollars (low in EC's case) but more importantly roster spots...how many more seasons do EC and WW get to "get it"
EC was a healthy scratch half the time. There was no one else worthy of having a permanent roster spot. If there was, then EC would've been gone awhile ago. He's a stopgap player.

Wolski takes up a roster spot, but so did Roszival. Getting rid of him opened up the door for McDonagh.

I agree that Gagne's kind of a hail mary at this point. When he's healthy, we know he's still capable of producing. But it's not clear if he can stay healthy.

The good thing about signing Gagne is it allows Grachev to start in the AHL and then, should he get hurt, we can call Grachev or someone else up.

We're a little too obsessed with the youth movement here -- you need balance. Additionally, there isn't really anyone that will be ready next year other than maybe Kreider, and it looks like it's going to take some convincing

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05-09-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
EC was a healthy scratch half the time. There was no one else worthy of having a permanent roster spot. If there was, then EC would've been gone awhile ago. He's a stopgap player.

Wolski takes up a roster spot, but so did Roszival. Getting rid of him opened up the door for McDonagh.

I agree that Gagne's kind of a hail mary at this point. When he's healthy, we know he's still capable of producing. But it's not clear if he can stay healthy.

The good thing about signing Gagne is it allows Grachev to start in the AHL and then, should he get hurt, we can call Grachev or someone else up.

We're a little too obsessed with the youth movement here -- you need balance. Additionally, there isn't really anyone that will be ready next year other than maybe Kreider, and it looks like it's going to take some convincing
EC got a sweater for 63 games this season about the same number of games as Gagne...I agree that there wasn't a better option, why there wasn't a better option is another discussion.

And as much as I disliked Rosy, I would say that he brought more to the table night in and night out than EC or WW

I didn't post anything about someone from the Whale taking either WW or EC's spot so if your directing your youth comment at me, it's misdirected.

I just happen to think having 3 Hail Mary's compromise 25% of your forwards is a bit much.

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05-09-2011, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
At LW hands down Tomas Fleischmann is the much better option. Cheaper and on the rise rather than Simon Gagne who is more expensive and on the decline.

Go with Flash!!! like I've been preaching!!!




No he's not!

80pts in 121 gms 31 year old @ 5.25m
or
82pts in 114 gms 26 year old @ 2.6m
you're looking at their current contracts. Fleishmann is going to get a fairly big pay raise, Gagne will be lucky to sniff anything higher than 2.5 mil.

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05-09-2011, 01:48 PM
  #71
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Sign Richards, keep Gagne/Flash - sign Markov.

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05-09-2011, 04:19 PM
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If the Rangers do wind up signing Brad, no reason to keep any of the remaining cap space open. They will have to sign another player and go all out for it in 2011-12. I doubt it will work, but if you are going for it, then do it like you mean it.

This means that if you are rebuilding, then rebuild all the way. And if you are trying to win the Cup immediately, then go do that all way.

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05-09-2011, 05:41 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
If the Rangers do wind up signing Brad, no reason to keep any of the remaining cap space open. They will have to sign another player and go all out for it in 2011-12. I doubt it will work, but if you are going for it, then do it like you mean it.

This means that if you are rebuilding, then rebuild all the way. And if you are trying to win the Cup immediately, then go do that all way.
You only rebuild for so long before it's time to start making moves. You want to start signing free agents when Cally and Dubi are 30? They're entering their primes. Now is the time.

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05-09-2011, 05:43 PM
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No. Prospal and Gagne, both need to go. Sorry, but Vinny's knee is done. There's almost no way he recover from that serious of a knee injury this late in his career. He looked even slower than he already was down the stretch. I don't like him healthwise either.

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05-09-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
OK, but basically what you are confirming with that statement is that there is no difference between him and Alex Frolov (who made 3/1 last year).

I don't want either.
There is a difference. He's Simon Gagne. He's North American. He's never had inconsistency issues. Injury issues.

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