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How close is Grachev?

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Old
05-09-2011, 12:47 AM
  #76
Pizza
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Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Two words...Johan. Franzen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Franzen

Picked 97th overall 2004
Didnt do squat in the SEL.
Came to NHL in 2006 @ age of 26
Didnt do squat in the NHL till 2008
Now....priceless and every fan of the other 29 NHL teams wet dream.

Give Grachev time, he's not even 26...... he's 20, twenty, twenty, 20, two-zero, TWENTY!
21

Birthday is 2/21.

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05-09-2011, 12:56 AM
  #77
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For every Franzen there are 500 big young players that never make it. Grachev might develop, but right now his only asset is his age.
True. Though I'd say he's got some skill and his size that are assets as well.

He was amazing to watch that first year in the OHL. He's not been able to come close since. But he is improving and he is still young. Might as well be patient. Nothing to lose with that.

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05-09-2011, 01:04 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
For every Franzen there are 500 big young players that never make it. Grachev might develop, but right now his only asset is his age.
While you are absolutely right about the chances of development, albeit a little exaggerated, I don't understand what you mean by "his only asset." If that were the case, I have a friend John who isn't even a hockey player, but I think he should sign with the Rangers. He's only 22, after all. I can only assume you were exaggerating again.

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Old
05-09-2011, 06:23 AM
  #79
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Evgeny has two years left on his ELC. For a 3rd Round pick, I am willing to be patient. Everyone wants to go young. Sometimes Young isnt ready.

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05-09-2011, 08:54 AM
  #80
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Remember a couple years ago how Grachev was considered by some untradeable? My how things change.

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05-09-2011, 09:12 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Just an admittedly premature hunch, but I think Torts eats this guy alive and it doesnt end well.
I agree. I think that there are certain players who simply don't have the mental-toughness to thrive under Torts:

ie: Gaborik, Zherdev

I'm not saying this will be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know much about Grachev's personality. He's still very young, so I'm sure his on-ice personality, and confidence, are a work in progress.

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05-09-2011, 09:45 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
I agree. I think that there are certain players who simply don't have the mental-toughness to thrive under Torts:

ie: Gaborik, Zherdev

I'm not saying this will be the case, but I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know much about Grachev's personality. He's still very young, so I'm sure his on-ice personality, and confidence, are a work in progress.
I don't really agree with this. I don't think it has anything to do with mental toughness. Torts won't tolerate floaters. There are certain coaches that will let players float due to the offensive benefits. Torts is not that kind of coach. You better be getting your butt back on the backcheck and show some defensive effort, or else you're going to get chewed out and benched real quick.

If Grachev is willing to play both sides of the puck and give consistent effort, I don't think he will have any problems with Torts. You don't need mental toughness to do what the coaching staff tells you.

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Old
05-09-2011, 10:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
While you are absolutely right about the chances of development, albeit a little exaggerated, I don't understand what you mean by "his only asset." If that were the case, I have a friend John who isn't even a hockey player, but I think he should sign with the Rangers. He's only 22, after all. I can only assume you were exaggerating again.
If there were no pre expectations here it would not be a discussion.

Remember, I said he might yet make it. Never said he would not. Just said that so far he has shown nothing as advertised.

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05-09-2011, 10:35 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
I don't really agree with this. I don't think it has anything to do with mental toughness. Torts won't tolerate floaters. There are certain coaches that will let players float due to the offensive benefits. Torts is not that kind of coach. You better be getting your butt back on the backcheck and show some defensive effort, or else you're going to get chewed out and benched real quick.

If Grachev is willing to play both sides of the puck and give consistent effort, I don't think he will have any problems with Torts. You don't need mental toughness to do what the coaching staff tells you.
hahaha this is exactly what I'm saying, though. I guess I should have clarified. Floaters are usually Divas that won't be able to handle Tort's tongue-lashings.

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05-09-2011, 11:28 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Remember a couple years ago how Grachev was considered by some untradeable? My how things change.
Par for the course in the development cycle of any Rangers prospect.

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05-09-2011, 11:36 AM
  #86
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Grachev is not a floater......

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05-09-2011, 12:47 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Grachev is not a floater......
I never said Grachev was a floater. I was referring to Gaborik and Zherdev from the poster I quoted.

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05-09-2011, 02:42 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
I never said Grachev was a floater. I was referring to Gaborik and Zherdev from the poster I quoted.
Gaborik is not a floater either. I still think a lot of this year's struggles were due to not having anyone close to his skill level to play with and next year he will be a lot better, particularly if a puck carrier is brought in:

"I'm going to train hard, come back in great shape and bring it to another level," Gaborik said. "It would definitely be great to have someone you can click with. You know they're going to葉hey always have葉ried everything to get guys, and I'm sure Glen (Sather) will try to do something."

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05-09-2011, 02:48 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
I don't really agree with this. I don't think it has anything to do with mental toughness. Torts won't tolerate floaters. There are certain coaches that will let players float due to the offensive benefits. Torts is not that kind of coach. You better be getting your butt back on the backcheck and show some defensive effort, or else you're going to get chewed out and benched real quick.

If Grachev is willing to play both sides of the puck and give consistent effort, I don't think he will have any problems with Torts. You don't need mental toughness to do what the coaching staff tells you.
Torts doesn't have to tolerate Gaborik if he doesn't want to, but if the guy is putting up 84 points I sure as hell will.

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05-09-2011, 02:51 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
Two words...Johan. Franzen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Franzen

Picked 97th overall 2004
Didnt do squat in the SEL.
Came to NHL in 2006 @ age of 26
Didnt do squat in the NHL till 2008
Now....priceless and every fan of the other 29 NHL teams wet dream.

Give Grachev time, he's not even 26...... he's 20, twenty, twenty, 20, two-zero, TWENTY!
Okay, I see... Grachev is 7-8 years away. Cool.

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Old
05-09-2011, 03:10 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Okay, I see... Grachev is 7-8 years away. Cool.
no, instead we should trade him for Michael Ryder.

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Old
05-09-2011, 03:33 PM
  #92
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21

Birthday is 2/21.
Doh !

In that case, changed my status header too.

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05-09-2011, 07:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Gaborik is not a floater either. I still think a lot of this year's struggles were due to not having anyone close to his skill level to play with and next year he will be a lot better, particularly if a puck carrier is brought in:

"I'm going to train hard, come back in great shape and bring it to another level," Gaborik said. "It would definitely be great to have someone you can click with. You know they're going to葉hey always have葉ried everything to get guys, and I'm sure Glen (Sather) will try to do something."
Gaborik was most definitely a floater this year.

Are we supposed to be impressed that a 10-year pro is saying he is going to come back in great shape? Does this mean that he regards this as a special effort on his part? Isn't that what he is supposed to do every year, or is a salary over 7 million not enough to guarantee full effort?

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05-09-2011, 08:58 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Gaborik is not a floater either. I still think a lot of this year's struggles were due to not having anyone close to his skill level to play with and next year he will be a lot better, particularly if a puck carrier is brought in:

"I'm going to train hard, come back in great shape and bring it to another level," Gaborik said. "It would definitely be great to have someone you can click with. You know they're going to葉hey always have葉ried everything to get guys, and I'm sure Glen (Sather) will try to do something."
Gaborik is the definition of a floater.

He doesn't excel with the puck on his stick.

He can't win battles in the corner.

He floats into the slot and waits for a pass. That's how he scores. And that's ok, as long as he puts in the effort on the defensive side of the puck.

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05-10-2011, 11:36 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
Evgeny has two years left on his ELC. For a 3rd Round pick, I am willing to be patient. Everyone wants to go young. Sometimes Young isnt ready.
Thats fine but lets say he has another bad camp and with new kids coming in on contracts he gets bumped down to the ECHL? Then what? Goodbye trade value.

Please remember that these kids don't have forever to "make it". Every season you have to earn to have one of those 50 contracts the team can give out, more prospects are ready to challenge for contacts every fall, guys have to be moved out so new ones with more promise can be moved in.

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05-10-2011, 11:38 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Gaborik is the definition of a floater.

He doesn't excel with the puck on his stick.

He can't win battles in the corner.

He floats into the slot and waits for a pass. That's how he scores. And that's ok, as long as he puts in the effort on the defensive side of the puck.
He does not score just from the slot, his shot is dangerous anywhere in the offensive zone. BTW who's pass is he waiting for? Christensen's? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me.

lol @ waiting for a pass.


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Old
05-10-2011, 11:38 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Thats fine but lets say he has another bad camp and with new kids coming in on contracts he gets bumped down to the ECHL? Then what? Goodbye trade value.

Please remember that these kids don't have forever to "make it". Every season you have to earn to have one of those 50 contracts the team can give out, more prospects are ready to challenge for contacts every fall, guys have to be moved out so new ones with more promise can be moved in.
He will not be bumped down to the ECHL. He is 21. Not 24.

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05-10-2011, 11:46 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He will not be bumped down to the ECHL. He is 21. Not 24.
21 going into his 3rd season in the league.

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05-10-2011, 11:46 AM
  #99
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my buddy at work makes a good point. Out of the final 5 right now how many Russians are there?

Daysyuk is the exception as he is the freaking man

Even the Flyers only had Bob and Z who did'nt do squat

It's not often Russians win the cup lately.

Grachev may become the typical Russian in that he may score in the NHL eventually but work ethic may be a factor. Honestly I have no clue as this is a stereo type but we should find out soon

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05-10-2011, 11:50 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
21 going into his 3rd season in the league.
Correct. Which, according to his age, should be his second. Would people really be all that upset if he took another year to put it all together and finished the season with 55-60 points this year? I wouldnt be upset at all.

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