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Old
05-08-2011, 08:32 PM
  #26
GoneFullHextall
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They are pretty much the same team that was tearing everything-on-skates a new ******* from the middle of last season to the middle of this season. They got tired. Let them get fresh, perhaps retool a bit, and see how they look in September.
So are we a good team if we are good for 40 plus games then we start playing like a lottery team for the last 35 plus games? I am noy buying the tired excuse. We are not good enough. Goaltending isnt the only problem.

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05-08-2011, 08:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
So are we a good team if we are good for 40 plus games then we start playing like a lottery team for the last 35 plus games? I am noy buying the tired excuse. We are not good enough. Goaltending isnt the only problem.
They're a good team as long as they have the legs to excel in Laviolette's fore checking dependent system. There were a lot of X's and O's issues with the team down the stretch. I tend to think those issues would sort themselves out if the team is hungry and mentally sharp. And of course the goal tending wasn't up-to-par against offensively capable teams that are hungry to score (though I think Bobrovsky could've been great with a little longer leash). In my opinion the goal tending is the only issue that requires a personnel solution (though other upgrades or better fits are possible throughout the lineup of course). Also, hopefully Laviolette learns to pace things better, or the team learns to pace itself better over the course of a season.

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05-08-2011, 10:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They're a good team as long as they have the legs to excel in Laviolette's fore checking dependent system. There were a lot of X's and O's issues with the team down the stretch. I tend to think those issues would sort themselves out if the team is hungry and mentally sharp. And of course the goal tending wasn't up-to-par against offensively capable teams that are hungry to score (though I think Bobrovsky could've been great with a little longer leash). In my opinion the goal tending is the only issue that requires a personnel solution (though other upgrades or better fits are possible throughout the lineup of course). Also, hopefully Laviolette learns to pace things better, or the team learns to pace itself better over the course of a season.
i agree to some extent...i think you may be crediting last years success more than this years failure.

Last year we had a Cinderella story to motivate and drive the team, along with some pretty perfect matchups for us. Not to discredit the team, but this year we were EXPECTED to go a lot further, so i think we may have over valued some of our role-players (imo especially Hartnell and Leino) I wouldnt do anything to drastic, but it does seem like a few key moves would go along way (as a message and for actual improvements to the team)

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05-09-2011, 11:59 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Yes, we're a soft team. It was most notable with Pronger out - absent him there's not a single banger on the blueline corps.
Since when is Pronger a banger?

He has a hit every 3 games or so.

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05-09-2011, 12:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Since when is Pronger a banger?

He has a hit every 3 games or so.
First off, Pronger in the playoffs does hit. Did you watch the Stanley Cup Finals last year? He laid into almost every player on the Hawks.

Also:
Not soft =/= hitting more

Boston's forwards started their forecheck by taking care of the soft Flyers defenders who attempted to throw the puck around the boards rather than use their bodies to protect the puck. Look at the Game 2 winner.

Pronger has the ability to use his body to shield the puck to counteract the forecheck. Hence, he's not a soft player. Matt Carle hesitates entering corners for puck battles and throws the puck away to avoid contact. Hence, he's soft.

This isn't what soft players do:


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05-09-2011, 12:35 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
The Bruins are pretty big. The Flyers took it as well as you can expect a team to, but they didn't have anything to give back. this wasn't going to be our year IMO.
I would be more inclined to give em more credit if our effort was better. I didnt like our effort at all for most of the series. Game 4 they waited until mid way thru the 3rd period to wake the **** up.
Maybe it wouldnt of mattered, who the **** knows especially with Thomas playing well. I just am completely dissapointed and frustrated with this team right now. This was a complete organization failure from Holmgren on down to the the 20th guy on this team.

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05-09-2011, 01:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They are pretty much the same team that was tearing everything-on-skates a new ******* from the middle of last season to the middle of this season. They got tired. Let them get fresh, perhaps retool a bit, and see how they look in September.
Excuses. Team is easy to paly against, they quit on their coach. So not only are they physically soft, but it seems unless properly motivated they are also mentally soft. Not a good mix that when Pronger goes out of the lineup this team turns into a bunch of marshmellows.

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05-09-2011, 01:53 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They're a good team as long as they have the legs to excel in Laviolette's fore checking dependent system. There were a lot of X's and O's issues with the team down the stretch. I tend to think those issues would sort themselves out if the team is hungry and mentally sharp. And of course the goal tending wasn't up-to-par against offensively capable teams that are hungry to score (though I think Bobrovsky could've been great with a little longer leash). In my opinion the goal tending is the only issue that requires a personnel solution (though other upgrades or better fits are possible throughout the lineup of course). Also, hopefully Laviolette learns to pace things better, or the team learns to pace itself better over the course of a season.
The truth lies somewhere in the vast field between, "OMG, we suck! Trade everyone!!!!" and just unlucky/tired/banged up. I'll begrudgingly give some belief to the toll the long playoff run took on the team, but these are professional athletes who are paid to play at high intensity for a full season. I can understand a little slump here and there by some of the personnel, but when the whole team goes into an extended nosedive year in and year out, there's something fundamentally wrong somewhere. Maybe it is Laviolette's high-octane system, but then for crying out, they should be able to adjust to basic X's and O's. They have looked lost since March, with only fits and starts of the brilliance to which we were spoiled through most of the season.

This off-season has to be more than just knee-jerk reactions, blockbuster trades and flimsy excuses. There needs to be a year-long strategy that everyone buys into for 2011-2012.

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05-09-2011, 02:10 PM
  #34
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the team is not soft just small up front. Hartnell is the only player that makes a living banging away in the crease. Carter & JVR will do it but they do not have the same make up as Hartnell. This is why the PP suffered so much. If they can't get clean passes for pretty set ups they don't score. They can't just get the puck on net and win scrambles in front, They have no one that will draw a dman into a skirmish besides Hartnell.

Plus they have noone to wear down a d or make them look over there shoulder when they are going back for a puck. Look at what eager did in the LA series. He was filthy. Look at Torres against CHI.

They would have been better off adding someone like Eager or Winchester at the deadline instead of Versteeg.

They need to let some guys walk so they can become more of a well rounded team. Hoepfully, Sestito can win a spot in camp. Plus add someone like Winchester (big, tough, inexpensive)


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05-09-2011, 02:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
They would have been better off adding someone like Eager or Winchester at the deadline instead of Versteeg.

They need to let some guys walk so they can become more of a well rounded team. Hoepfully, Sestito can win a spot in camp. Plus add someone like Winchester (big, tough, inexpensive)
Eager would have not been a better option then Carcillo. We dont need more guys who do stupid things and take dumb penalties. We need players that make this team hard to play against in a good way.

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05-09-2011, 03:04 PM
  #36
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We looked really tired and almost surprised that Boston finished their checks in the end. I don't think it was because of "softness" that we lost however.

Also, I don't necessarily want to see our guys going for the huge hit. A guy like Denis Gauthier for instance would have been a better defender if he wasn't constantly looking for that. Raffi Torres would have been a better checking line player for Vancouver at the moment if he actually focused on forechecking instead of going for the hit at all times.

We could perhaps use some more size up front though. Not so sure I'd like to see Eager however, and while Winchester might be a decent fit for our 4th line I don't want to see him on the pp next year. That big third line center who is good at winning face offs would be nice to have as well... but now we're entering fantasy land.

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05-09-2011, 04:23 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Excuses. Team is easy to paly against, they quit on their coach. So not only are they physically soft, but it seems unless properly motivated they are also mentally soft. Not a good mix that when Pronger goes out of the lineup this team turns into a bunch of marshmellows.
If you're tired, you're tired.

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05-10-2011, 04:40 AM
  #38
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The team is soft there is no doubt about it. They were also tired. I made concerns about it at the start of the year. The defense stepped up this year which was nice to see though.

Last year, our fourth line was feared, it was one of the best in the business. This year, betts has been half the player he was with the shoulder injuries, Carcillo has been tamed, Shelley is far to slow to make an impact on the game, Nodl isn't going to throw checks that change the game.

Richards was injured all year. JVR didn't step up until the play-offs. What we really needed was probably 2 big bodies that could of gone around hitting anything that moved, and sat them on the fourth line. Lappy did it last year so effectively. Him and Carcillo were like the bash brothers. Asham also was such a good player that we missed.

We lost allot of size. That hurts us in the game we need to play. Down the middle looking at Richards(injured), Briere and Giroux. We were always going to get manhandled unless the wings stepped up. They didn't, we got hammered.

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05-10-2011, 05:34 AM
  #39
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We aren't soft, we just got worn out. Lavy's system is tough, but I'm sure this does make them stronger in the end.

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05-10-2011, 02:30 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
If you're tired, you're tired.
kind of a lame excuse for professionals, though.

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05-10-2011, 02:58 PM
  #41
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Losing Lappy & Asham really hurt the team when it came to physicality. Between those 2, Carcillo, Powe, Betts, Hartnell, & Richards we had a nice mix of physical players, and skill players.

I also think Lappy was a really good influence on Carcillo, playing together seemed to really help Carcillo's game. Because he had an older veteran similar to him to lean on seek out advice on what he should & shouldn't be doing.

As this season went on it became apparent that our forward group were too small, and not physical enough this year. They need to get bigger up front. Or at least get guys who play bigger than they are ala Asham & Lappy.

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05-11-2011, 09:24 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
kind of a lame excuse for professionals, though.
They're professionals, not robots. The other team are professionals too. So like I said, if you're tired, you're tired. You can still compete, but you're not going to be as good as you are when you're fresh.

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05-11-2011, 10:35 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
kind of a lame excuse for professionals, though.
Professionals are still human.

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05-11-2011, 10:57 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They're a good team as long as they have the legs to excel in Laviolette's fore checking dependent system. There were a lot of X's and O's issues with the team down the stretch. I tend to think those issues would sort themselves out if the team is hungry and mentally sharp. And of course the goal tending wasn't up-to-par against offensively capable teams that are hungry to score (though I think Bobrovsky could've been great with a little longer leash). In my opinion the goal tending is the only issue that requires a personnel solution (though other upgrades or better fits are possible throughout the lineup of course). Also, hopefully Laviolette learns to pace things better, or the team learns to pace itself better over the course of a season.

So, you are giving the excuse of the players just did not have enough gas in the tank and this was a result of a team who competed all season? Quotes tell a different story:

2/26: Following a first period in which the Senators trailed 1-0 and were thoroughly dominated by the Flyers, Ottawa turned the tables over the final 40 minutes and outshot Philadelphia 27-15 the rest of the way.



"In the first period we dominated the game and we skated and were playing together," Flyers forward Claude Giroux said. "There was no issue for the first period, then we just stopped playing and it cost us two points."



3/3: We know that they're in a fight for their lives right now, and they played with a certain sense of desperation," Flyers defenseman Chris Pronger said. "We needed to match that, at times, and we didn't."

3/5: It just wasn't enough.

"Little mistakes are costing us," Pronger said. "We're playing teams that are battling for their lives."

"The month of March is going to be a month where we've got to push in practice and in games," Flyers coach Peter Laviolette said. "The way to turn things is to keep on pushing, and we will."



3/6: The sluggish Flyers (40-19-6) have dropped a season-worst four in a row and are in danger of losing their hold on first place in the Eastern Conference.

"We're at the stage now where it's a test of our character," defenseman Chris Pronger said. "We're facing some adversity and we've got to show our mettle here and understand it's going to take some hard work to get out of it and get everybody on the same page.

"We are still in a good position, but I don't think anybody in this locker room is happy with the way we're playing right now. It's up to us to figure out a way how to come together and get back to playing as a team."



Sat 3/12: Loss to Thrashers in OT after giving up a 3rd period 3 goal lead.

Philadelphia has lost five of eight and is struggling to stay atop the East. They lost for only the second time this season when leading after two periods.

"It's been like this the last few games," Timonen said. "We stop playing. When you stop playing in this league you are going to lose games. This game is about hard work and making simple plays. It seems like every time we get it to be 3-0, 4-0, or whatever, we start turning the puck over. We think the game is over. It's not. That's one of those things we have to change now."



4/3: Philadelphia is 1-4-4 in its last nine home games.

"We need to go harder and play with a lot higher energy and emotion," Flyers forward Daniel Carcillo said. "When we do that, we play our best. Right now, it's not happening

4/5 Philadelphia has lost four straight and five of six overall.

"It's not good enough at all, by any stretch," said Flyers coach Peter Laviolette, whose team fell two points behind Washington in the East after the Capitals beat Toronto in shootout.

"It was a big game for us, and pretty much the whole team came out flat and didn't really help our goalie," Flyers right wing Claude Giroux said. "We've got two games left, and I don't think you can turn on a switch when playoffs come, so I think the next two games are going to be huge.


"If we play like that in the playoffs, we'll be in trouble."



4/8: "It's so frustrating," Flyers forward Danny Briere said. "We're not looking at positioning as much as trying to come up rolling to start the playoffs."

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05-11-2011, 11:00 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They're professionals, not robots. The other team are professionals too. So like I said, if you're tired, you're tired. You can still compete, but you're not going to be as good as you are when you're fresh.
And professionals need to put themselves in a position that come playoff time you need to be a professional and prepare for that moment. Laviolette was trying to do that in March, players said no, so Laviolette gave them the rope and noose. The result was a total flop in the playoffs. This is on the players who thought that the rest and time off was the way to go, and Laviolette obliged, cancelling practices, giving days off. Heck, the captain did not even show up for the last practice before the playoffs. Well, he showed up but Homer told him to go home because he was late. Well prepared core gorup we have here. Just ooooooozes confidence.

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05-11-2011, 11:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
If you're tired, you're tired.
I am tired when I go into work, up with my son @6am, work until 5pm, come home, take care of my son. Get him to bed @8-8:3pm. My wife and I then sit for dinner, in bed @10:30pm. My weekends consist of getting up early, spend the morning with my boy doing some activity, get some time in the afternoon to myself. Sunday I am up early, play soccer in a mens league in the Boston area. Come home and spend the afternoon playing with my son. Get up monday and do it all over again. I am tired too, but it does not stop me from maximizing my effort to be at work on time, prepare as a professional, and aslo maximize the time I can spend with my son.


I am tired, it does not stop me. And do not tell me professional athletes are different. You have doctors who work all night on two hours sleep, saving lives. These guys take pregame naps and hit the clubs after games. I really think that the delusional level of how we treat these athletes/stars has gotten bad.

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05-11-2011, 11:17 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I would be more inclined to give em more credit if our effort was better. I didnt like our effort at all for most of the series. Game 4 they waited until mid way thru the 3rd period to wake the **** up.
Maybe it wouldnt of mattered, who the **** knows especially with Thomas playing well. I just am completely dissapointed and frustrated with this team right now. This was a complete organization failure from Holmgren on down to the the 20th guy on this team.
They stopped skating, that has to do with conditioning, not being "tired". Out of @256 minutes I think they were outskated for at least 200 of those minutes. We are not talking about hitting. We are talking about the ability to skate harder every shift, get to the bench, pay attention on line changes. Maximize the effort.

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05-11-2011, 11:57 AM
  #48
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We were outplayed by the Bruins, yes. Was it because we were tired? Maybe, I don't know to be honest, but we didn't lose this season when the players wanted a little rest back in March.

Look, I'm sure you are great in what you do and is a terrific father and all. I don't know what you do for a living, but I doubt you're in a position where you are so directly in competition with others as professional athletes are however, not many people are. I mean, I try to do my best at work as well, but heaven knows I'm not on top of my game every day. Sometimes I can work magic and find solutions to every little problem that occurs and not only impress with ideas and initiatives but also be a great coworker and friend. Some other days, things are heavier and it takes a little longer for things to get sorted out. I stilll do my job, I sure as hell doesn't excel at it those days however. Sometimes I don't come up with the solution until it's way too late. Then, I guess it could be argued that I haven't really done my job, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I was doing a bad job, I might not have had the resoources at the moment to carry out what needed to be done, or maybe it's really out of my job description to be able to solve such issues.

We're simply not gonna get 100% perfection out of ourselves too many moments in time. Things doesn't work like that.

Look, this is a little rantish, but I just grow more and more nervous the closer we're getting to free agent seaso that Homer will panic and make a lot of hasty moves because the grass is always greener on the other side. There are a few players on this team I wouldn't mind trade, and I could definitely come up with trades for each and every player that I'd do in a heartbeat, but that doesn't mean I'd actively look to trade them. If we come back with pretty much the exact same team next year I don't think it will be a wasted off season. I don't want Leighton or Walker on this team next year, but other than that, well maybe drop Shelley as well...

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05-11-2011, 07:47 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
They're professionals, not robots. The other team are professionals too. So like I said, if you're tired, you're tired. You can still compete, but you're not going to be as good as you are when you're fresh.
that's why they get paid to just train and play. nothing else. train and play.

if you started falling asleep at work, do you think your boss would say to you: "oh well you're still human!"

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05-11-2011, 09:23 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
that's why they get paid to just train and play. nothing else. train and play.

if you started falling asleep at work, do you think your boss would say to you: "oh well you're still human!"
You are showing yourself to have no experience or idea what it means to compete at that level, or what it means to be physically exhausted. When you're run down, it doesn't matter how hard you push, how willing you are, or how brightly your competitive fire is lit, you're a step slower and not as sharp.

You seem to think the idea that they get payed means they should have super human regenerative powers. The body can only train and play so much, even if you feed it well and rest it enough. There's only so much training and playing you can do before you start to suffer from reduced performance.


EDIT: You show me a Flyer that fell asleep on the bench and then your rhetorical question might be relevant.


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