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Kreider is staying at BC (Won't change mind. Summer school)

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05-08-2011, 09:12 PM
  #251
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Well given that we haven't offered him a contract yet, it seems unfair to blast the kid over the fact that "he doesn't want to sign with us when we clearly want to sign him."

We won't be 100% sure about what either he or the Rangers think until they make him an offer, so let's just wait and see how this plays out before we start tagging him with character issues.
I'm not doing that at all, I was just responding to the idea that going back to college shows his character. I just disagree with that idea, that's all.

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05-08-2011, 09:14 PM
  #252
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Well given that we haven't offered him a contract yet, it seems unfair to blast the kid over the fact that "he doesn't want to sign with us when we clearly want to sign him."

We won't be 100% sure about what either he or the Rangers think until they make him an offer, so let's just wait and see how this plays out before we start tagging him with character issues.
If anything, sticking with college is a Positive character move. Not that taking the contract is a neg, far from us to judge something we would never know the whole situation.

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05-08-2011, 09:30 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
id question his intelligence when it comes to this. he feels hes not ready to make the jump to the AHL based on 2 seasons of NCAA hockey...if thats the case, go play for the Q for 1 season, id understand that more than this decision. NCAA, imho, is not a great stepping stone league. McDonagh and Stepan are the exception, not the rule.
I don't think the Q is particularly great, either. Of the three CHL leagues, it's the worst at emulating and preparing players for the professional game. If his rights were held by a team from the WHL or OHL, I might feel differently. The Q, not so much. I'd rather he play NCAA hockey than QMJHL hockey.

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05-08-2011, 09:33 PM
  #254
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I think all athletes in college should stay the whole 4 years. He went to school, joined a team. Show some balls and lead your team. They have jrs for guys who have no interest in scholastic commitments.

This is hockey not football, please let's not turn it into the NBA
NBA is different. They should stay in college longer.

Simply because there's no farm club for NBA teams. I know people say college basketball is the farm club/s. lol
But seriously there isn't any actual farm clubs.

Also shorter roster. Can't really give a guy who isn't ready that many minutes, if any at all. There's no way to hide them. Like put them on the 4th line if it were hockey.

NBA players should stay for those reasons.
NHL players have the AHL and/or you can hide them.

Turning pro in the NBA = highest level of basketball
Turning pro in the NHL = not necessarily the highest level (NHL) but the AHL, if need be.

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05-08-2011, 10:15 PM
  #255
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As long as he is getting monster minutes. The one downside of playing in Hartford is that Gernander might give him 12 minutes a game which is not going to do much for his development.

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05-08-2011, 10:55 PM
  #256
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I personally believe Kreider shows A MASS AMOUNT OF CHARACTER for staying in College next year.

he could come over to us, get big money (Big money for HIM, not for the NHL average salary), and get a very good chance to make the big club next year as long as he doesnt crap the bed in training camp.

Kreider decided money and a good shot at a roster spot on the big club was not enough to sway his decision. He feels he is NOT READY YET. I commend him for that. Most if not all the other kids would want the money. Want the fame. Want the chance to crack the NHL roster. But Kreider feels he can DEVELOP more. Feels he can LEARN more in College. He wants to be ABSOLUTELY READY to make the team. THAT type of commitment to his career is uncanny. I LOVE his decision to stay in College one more year.

It wouldnt kill Kreider to stay in College for one more year. But if he signed now and didnt make the big club out of camp, that might have really hurt his mental toughness. He may think that making the jump right away was a bad thing and he would have a fragile psyche.

Let him do what he feels best for HIMSELF. Its about time a young man didnt have an agent making his decision for him or a family member who is just being greedy to get their son's money.

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05-08-2011, 10:57 PM
  #257
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As long as he is getting monster minutes. The one downside of playing in Hartford is that Gernander might give him 12 minutes a game which is not going to do much for his development.
Gernander would play Kreider exactly as much as the organization wants Kreider to play. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

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05-08-2011, 11:37 PM
  #258
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I don't think the Q is particularly great, either. Of the three CHL leagues, it's the worst at emulating and preparing players for the professional game. If his rights were held by a team from the WHL or OHL, I might feel differently. The Q, not so much. I'd rather he play NCAA hockey than QMJHL hockey.
in the Q he'd play what...70ish games? in the NCAA 30? He needs to play...play more...play offensively, get some goals under his belt. is the Q the ideal place for him? No, i think it would be the O personally...but its still better for his development than the NCAA...

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05-09-2011, 12:03 AM
  #259
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Racking up goals by being bigger, stronger and faster than the vast majority of the q would do absolutely nothing for Kreider's development - in fact I would argue it may even stunt it. He needs to continue to learn to harness his abilities against men - by getting major minutes in the NCAA or AHL.

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05-09-2011, 12:34 AM
  #260
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If he gets the big minutes and produces, good all round. If he doesn't produce, it would fan the flames of any criticism he's been getting.

For sure if he goes back to BC, people will be expecting big production from him. Should be interesting.

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05-09-2011, 01:09 AM
  #261
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Plans change based on circumstance. If the Rangers haven't offered him a contract yet, why are we still having the discussion the pros/cons of him going back to school 11 pages later? As far as he's concerned for right now, he IS going back to school next year, whether that's his first choice or not. The Rangers might change that and they might not. My point is, why speculate to the media? Say what you know to be true. There's no need to explain that future situations may make you change your stance.

11 pages of this? Ah yes, the offseason for the Rangers HF boards

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05-09-2011, 03:16 AM
  #262
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Plans change based on circumstance. If the Rangers haven't offered him a contract yet, why are we still having the discussion the pros/cons of him going back to school 11 pages later? As far as he's concerned for right now, he IS going back to school next year, whether that's his first choice or not. The Rangers might change that and they might not. My point is, why speculate to the media? Say what you know to be true. There's no need to explain that future situations may make you change your stance.

11 pages of this? Ah yes, the offseason for the Rangers HF boards
I'm surprised at all the hate for the BC Program. BC is one of the top programs in the nation which has prepared quite a few players for the NHL under Jerry York. A year to go back and dominate at BC is certainly nothing to get upset about.

If, next year, he dominates at BC and the talk is that he's going to go back again, then I'll grab a pitchfork, but not yet.

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05-09-2011, 06:20 AM
  #263
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I'm surprised at all the hate for the BC Program. BC is one of the top programs in the nation which has prepared quite a few players for the NHL under Jerry York. A year to go back and dominate at BC is certainly nothing to get upset about.

If, next year, he dominates at BC and the talk is that he's going to go back again, then I'll grab a pitchfork, but not yet.
I also believe Kreider does not want to go to Hartford. He would rather play @ BC.
Kreider believes his game isnt ready for the NHL. I also believe he is living his dream.
His dream was to play College Hockey in Boston.

It wouldnt suprise me if Kreider goes back for his Senior year too. He will come out very polished if he does that. I wouldnt be upset.

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05-09-2011, 06:34 AM
  #264
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Why is Kreider's intelligence being questioned?

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05-09-2011, 07:39 AM
  #265
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I don't think any prospect wants to be in the AHL.

McD likely didn't want to go there either when he signed.

But the truth is, you have to earn it. Nothing is given to you.

Stepan didn't spend 1 minute in the AHL. because he earned being with the big club.

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05-09-2011, 08:22 AM
  #266
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Kreider has made these kinds of comments before, and I'm undecided on how I feel about them at the moment...

On one hand, it can show a maturity and work ethic to identify holes in your game and know there is a lot you need to work on. On the other hand, I can't help but feel he doesn't have confidence in his skills and that is a big reason he hasn't done real well in college yet.

Look at the difference in his game between watching the first two WC games and then the game against Sweden. Against tougher competition, he looked more hesitant, more standing around, not as much work with the puck and attempting to make things happen.

I can't tell if it's purely that he feels overwhelmed playing against tougher competition, or if he mentally things "**** I better not make a mistake and I better play it safe, I don't feel like I can play my best against these guys".

it's easy to read a lot into a few comments, and tough to figure out the truth. Part of me keeps thinking he needs to stop underestimating himself, but there's a lot that can go into a players confidence...his experience, how his team relies on him, how much the coach trusts him, etc.

He needs to not overthink things and just go out and play, have a good year wherever he goes

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05-09-2011, 08:39 AM
  #267
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The only thing that concerns me about Kreider is that big minutes aren't a guarantee. If he's not on the top line with linemates that give him the opportunity to develop his offensive game, it's going to be a wasted year.

From what I've read, he got 3rd line minutes last season with some special teams duty sprinkled in. York seems to work on a seniority-based system as far as playtime goes, so hopefully Kreider will get tons of ice as a junior. Otherwise, there was no reason for him to go back.

It would seem that he already has the defensive part of his game in order, and we've seen what he can do when he has linemates with some offensive awareness. It all depends on what role York gives him this year, but I certainly hope he got assurances from BC that he'll be one of the go-to guys in the scoring department, and be paired with players that will support his development.

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05-09-2011, 10:21 AM
  #268
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If Kreider wants to stay in school why is he missing at least two weeks during potentially finals?

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05-09-2011, 12:13 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
in the Q he'd play what...70ish games? in the NCAA 30? He needs to play...play more...play offensively, get some goals under his belt. is the Q the ideal place for him? No, i think it would be the O personally...but its still better for his development than the NCAA...
The benefit of NCAA is that you practice more. Drills and study the game not just, play, play, play. That's why Stepan and McDonagh were so prepared. Mike Eaves spent so much time training them. BC has an excellent program too. If he wasn't in an elite program, it'd be different. With NCAA, it all depends on the program and the division.

If he's going to play in Hartford, I can see the logic in keeping him College and keeping him off of his ELC. Why burn up valuable years of an ELC in Hartford when you can use them on the big club in NY on a player like Kreider. In the end. This may save the Rangers several million in cap space an allow them to squeeze in that extra player. Not to mention, what's to happen with the new CBA. Waiting until next year, may give them another option when signing Kreider.

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05-09-2011, 12:18 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
The benefit of NCAA is that you practice more. Drills and study the game not just, play, play, play. That's why Stepan and McDonagh were so prepared. Mike Eaves spent so much time training them. BC has an excellent program too. If he wasn't in an elite program, it'd be different. With NCAA, it all depends on the program and the division.

If he's going to play in Hartford, I can see the logic in keeping him College and keeping him off of his ELC. Why burn up valuable years of an ELC in Hartford when you can use them on the big club in NY on a player like Kreider. In the end. This may save the Rangers several million in cap space an allow them to squeeze in that extra player. Not to mention, what's to happen with the new CBA. Waiting until next year, may give them another option when signing Kreider.
If he plays in Hartford for a year, none of his ELC will be burned off.

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05-09-2011, 12:40 PM
  #271
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I also believe Kreider does not want to go to Hartford. He would rather play @ BC.
Kreider believes his game isnt ready for the NHL. I also believe he is living his dream.
His dream was to play College Hockey in Boston.

If that's the case let him live it... taste it... conquer it.

That's a big part of self development. He'll get his shot to dream about winning the Cup too and have the belief in himself to get it done.

I don't see him as the magic fix on Broadway next season, so whats the rush? He plays at BC, a quality hockey program. Let him grow....

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05-09-2011, 01:38 PM
  #272
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Arthur Staple wrote about Kreider again this morning

Quote:
Those are two fairly different things -- Kreider's purely hockey-based feeling that he's not ready for the grind of the NHL and the Rangers' salary-cap juggling. But they may combine to keep Kreider in BC for another year. The Rangers definitely want Kreider in their system rather than in college, even if it's a full season with Connecticut of the AHL, but Kreider wants to be a pro when he's mentally and physically prepared for whatever may happen.
Quote:
The Rangers may yet sway Kreider to sign and spend next season in the AHL, learning their system. If Kreider spends a full year in the minors, his bonus money won't matter; but if he signs, comes to camp and pulls a Derek Stepan, the Rangers will have some tough decisions to make.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...9?showAll=true

How much bonus money is the 19th pick in the draft getting? McDonagh was the 12th pick in 07 and he got $425,000 in bonuses. JVR has a $1,654,166 cap number and he was a 2nd pick overall.

Nick Leddy was the 16th pick in 09 and his cap number is $1,116,666. He didn't get any performance bonuses for this season. $325,000 per in years 2 and 3. Louie LeBlanc taken 1 pick before Kreider got $1.2M. $900,000 MAX. $300,000 in performance bonuses. Kreider will get similar to LeBlanc.

They're all NCAA players.

The Rangers will find a way to fit in $300,000 if Kreider makes the team.

I don't buy the performance bonus argument.

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05-09-2011, 03:22 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
in the Q he'd play what...70ish games? in the NCAA 30? He needs to play...play more...play offensively, get some goals under his belt. is the Q the ideal place for him? No, i think it would be the O personally...but its still better for his development than the NCAA...
If he were in the Q, he'd be able to rely on his superior physical attributes to get by. I don't know how much mental and physical development he'd get there. Like Grachev in his single OHL year, there wasn't much development...it was just physical domination. The Q is half comprised of 16 and 17 year old kids, whereas in college he's going up against guys his age and older. Better athletes. Guys he can't simply physically dominate. I think the competition in Hockey East is above the competition in Quebec.

He'll come out of HE a more well-rounded player. Obviously, we need his offense to develop above all else, but I don't really think that would happen playing up in the Q. Again, he'd just fly around and dominate everyone. That won't happen in the professional game, so I don't see it helping him.

He plays 35-40 NCAA games. Would have played more than 32 if not for the injury. He played WJC games. WHC games. He's gonna have 50 games under his belt when the tourney is over. He's getting enough games. NCAA players also practice a ton. I'm not concerned with the amount of hockey he is playing. And I'd rather have him learning how to score in Hockey East, than cruising through the Q scoring like he did in New England HS hockey.

Ideally, he'd sign and play in the AHL. That's obviously the best preparation for him. Barring that, I think he'll become a better hockey player by spending another year in Hockey East.

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05-09-2011, 04:18 PM
  #274
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If he were in the Q, he'd be able to rely on his superior physical attributes to get by. I don't know how much mental and physical development he'd get there. Like Grachev in his single OHL year, there wasn't much development...it was just physical domination. The Q is half comprised of 16 and 17 year old kids, whereas in college he's going up against guys his age and older. Better athletes. Guys he can't simply physically dominate. I think the competition in Hockey East is above the competition in Quebec.

He'll come out of HE a more well-rounded player. Obviously, we need his offense to develop above all else, but I don't really think that would happen playing up in the Q. Again, he'd just fly around and dominate everyone. That won't happen in the professional game, so I don't see it helping him.

He plays 35-40 NCAA games. Would have played more than 32 if not for the injury. He played WJC games. WHC games. He's gonna have 50 games under his belt when the tourney is over. He's getting enough games. NCAA players also practice a ton. I'm not concerned with the amount of hockey he is playing. And I'd rather have him learning how to score in Hockey East, than cruising through the Q scoring like he did in New England HS hockey.

Ideally, he'd sign and play in the AHL. That's obviously the best preparation for him. Barring that, I think he'll become a better hockey player by spending another year in Hockey East.
The AHL is the key, and if he had gone to the QMJHL, he'd be all but guaranteed to be in the AHL this season. While your argument for HE has merit, if he returns for another year of college hockey, you should be comparing the following two potential development cycles:

QMJHL
QMJHL
AHL/NHL

HE
HE
HE

I prefer the first without question.

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05-09-2011, 04:27 PM
  #275
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The AHL is the key, and if he had gone to the QMJHL, he'd be all but guaranteed to be in the AHL this season. While your argument for HE has merit, if he returns for another year of college hockey, you should be comparing the following two potential development cycles:

QMJHL
QMJHL
AHL/NHL

HE
HE
HE

I prefer the first without question.
That's assuming that we could go back and change the way things have unfolded. If I had known that he'd want to remain at BC for at least three years, then I would have preferred he play a season or two in the QMJHL and then moved onto AHL hockey. But we can't go back and change that--so we have to focus on what is best for him under the current circumstances.

The current discussion Inferno and I are having centers on whether he'd be better served playing next year in Hockey East or in Quebec. Those are the options presented by his (seeming) hesitance to sign and go pro. Given those two potential options, I think that another year of NCAA/HE hockey is the best for his future.

Starting in the Q versus starting in the NCAA is a different discussion.

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