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Scott Hartnell is good in front of the net

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Old
05-09-2011, 05:21 PM
  #1
tuckrr
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Scott Hartnell is good in front of the net

I want to stop seeing this posted, because its simply not true. Knuble ran ***** in front of the net, and when he left we patched the hole up with scotty. We had hartnell way before we moved knuble and back then never played him in front of the net (some of hartnells best years)

Scotty wasnt brought here to play in front of the net, he was forced into the role...and while he may have improved a little in front of the net, hes no better at it than richards would be given a week of practice.

can we move him away from the net again? and bring someone good at it in?

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05-09-2011, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Scotty wasnt brought here to play in front of the net, he was forced into the role...and while he may have improved a little in front of the net, hes no better at it than richards would be given a week of practice.

can we move him away from the net again? and bring someone good at it in?
He's being paid almost double what Knuble was making at the time, and 3x the term. He wasn't "forced" into the role, he inherited it as soon as he signed the contract.

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05-09-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by go david krejci 430 View Post
He's being paid almost double what Knuble was making at the time, and 3x the term. He wasn't "forced" into the role, he inherited it as soon as he signed the contract.
um no. Scotty's contract is way to big for him to fill, so dont let that fool you.

Knuble is a role-player with a great cap-hit (imo) Hartnell got pigeon-holed into this role b/c of his hair.

we never traded for hartnell with net-presence in mind.

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05-09-2011, 05:41 PM
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great thread title

"Rumor"

LOL

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05-09-2011, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
um no. Scotty's contract is way to big for him to fill, so dont let that fool you.

Knuble is a role-player with a great cap-hit (imo) Hartnell got pigeon-holed into this role b/c of his hair.

we never traded for hartnell with net-presence in mind.
That's Hartnell's fault. If he wants to be a star player who is getting big time money, then he needs to get his ass in front of the net and bang in some rebounds, and fans and media alike shouldn't dismiss it just because "it's not what he was signed to do." Yes it was.

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05-09-2011, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by go david krejci 430 View Post
That's Hartnell's fault. If he wants to be a star player who is getting big time money, then he needs to get his ass in front of the net and bang in some rebounds, and fans and media alike shouldn't dismiss it just because "it's not what he was signed to do." Yes it was.
no, his best year was when he played with lupul/carter

Hartnell lacks a few things to succeed with what you suggested.

balance, he's not very good at standing on ice...ironic eh?

Hand-eye coordination, cant see cause of hair

good deflections, scotty takes more shots to the thigh per game than hes deflected (on net) in his career.


hes just not a "in front of the net" guy. and will never have as much success there as he did when he was crashing recklessly into people on the boards, and grinding like crazy.

instead the only player he recklessly crashes into is the goalie.

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05-09-2011, 07:14 PM
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Terence Peterman
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Hartnell actually is good in front of the net...watch him in Nashville, it's where he scored a lot of his goals. He's just been misused here.

Comparing him to Knuble also isn't fair...Knuble didn't really do anything til he was, what, 31? It took him a while just like it always takes that kind of player a while to emerge.

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05-09-2011, 09:20 PM
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He's good at falling down in front of the net.

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05-09-2011, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Hartnell actually is good in front of the net...watch him in Nashville, it's where he scored a lot of his goals. He's just been misused here.

Comparing him to Knuble also isn't fair...Knuble didn't really do anything til he was, what, 31? It took him a while just like it always takes that kind of player a while to emerge.
He was doing it when he was here though. When Knuble left it was kind of on Hartnell to be that hell-raiser, and get 30-35 goals a year.

Even at that, he remains an enigma, and makes entirely too much to wonder whether or not he feels like playing on a given night. I actually wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to leave anyways.

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05-10-2011, 02:33 AM
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In my opinion Harts is one of our most consistent players at crashing the net, he is constantly in front of goalies getting whacked and hacked, Xchecked etc..He is a pretty tough guy in my opinion.

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05-10-2011, 02:53 AM
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I think you're selling Hartnell way short here by comparing him to Knuble. Knuble was better at literally parking himself in front of them net. But Hartnell is a better all around player. By saying that Hartnell isn't Knuble you act like Hartnell is bad at being in front of the net.

He generates rebounds, and when he is on his game plays those rebounds really well to other players crashing late (as he did in last years playoffs). He can park himself infront of the net. He is, by no means, immovable, but certainly can create screens and tips.

And more importantly, there is no one else on this roster that can/should play that role. You mentioned Richards. Playing Richards or Jvr (as others have mentioned) in that role would be a massive waste of their talents.

Hartnell is not worth his 4 mill cap hit. But at the same time, you can not simply get rid of him to create cap space without bringing in someone else who can give you what he does.

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05-10-2011, 04:37 AM
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In my opinion, Hartnell was a total ghost in the post-season, and I'm not sure how many $4m cap hit ghosts the other teams had, but I'm guessing it wasn't many!

I know that the contract isn't Hartnells problem (quite the contrary), it's the managements, but the fact that he is on that dollar for that term is

A perfect example of cap mis-management, and if the Flyers could move Hartnell for ANYTHING this off-season, I would do it, and pick up a UFA winger for half the cap who can also be a ghost when it really counts.......For half the cap.

Hartnell sucks for this team.

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05-10-2011, 06:05 AM
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I still remember the times when everyone on this board wanted Knuble out of this town because he was too old, too slow to keep up with his linemates, way overrated.

We should have kept him the first time.

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05-10-2011, 06:28 AM
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Hartnell's role on that HBL line is a little bit more complicated as well since he has to take more of a defensive responsibility than the guy parked in front of the goal normally does. When they are on their game it has worked out in some strange way, but when Leino's spinoramas fail and Brière is trapped behind goal the line is exposed.

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05-10-2011, 06:45 AM
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Hartnell's role on that HBL line is a little bit more complicated as well since he has to take more of a defensive responsibility than the guy parked in front of the goal normally does. When they are on their game it has worked out in some strange way, but when Leino's spinoramas fail and Brière is trapped behind goal the line is exposed.

HBL line worked last year. This year? Not so much.

Fool me once.......

A player carousel is seriously required, and this team is so stale. They ran out of feasible ideas, and other teams smell blood when we get injuries, because everyone knows our depth is laughable.

I've said before in other posts, if your name isn't Giroux, JVR or Briere, then you are not safe in this team.

Everyone else underachieved after the All Star break, and when you look at the salaries and terms of those players, it's a disgrace. They ought to be ashamed.

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05-10-2011, 08:28 AM
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I like Hartnell. But we need a guy like Kesler, who does everything known to man in hockey. Goes in front of the net, plays good D, can stay on his feet, good deflections, great shot, Always on ice for PP/PK.

Hartnell is just goes in front of the net, gritty, OK defense, some goals.

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05-10-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Villa View Post
HBL line worked last year. This year? Not so much.

Fool me once.......

A player carousel is seriously required, and this team is so stale. They ran out of feasible ideas, and other teams smell blood when we get injuries, because everyone knows our depth is laughable.

I've said before in other posts, if your name isn't Giroux, JVR or Briere, then you are not safe in this team.

Everyone else underachieved after the All Star break, and when you look at the salaries and terms of those players, it's a disgrace. They ought to be ashamed.
I use to say that there are a few players here that it would take an awfully good offer for me to consider to trade (JvR, Giroux, Richards, Carter, Timonen and Pronger) but none of them are definitely untradeable. No one else is of course off the list, but that doesn't mean we should actively look for trades. I mean guys like Hartnell, Versteeg certainly didn't play as good as we can expect from them, but the guys you'd get in as replacements... well, they will most likely come from teams either missing out on the playoffs or not making it that far either.

I don't want Homer to panick this off season, I think his main problems previous off seasons has been his lack of patience. The signing of Leighton before free agency even started last year, the trade for Eminger the year before that just to take two examples.

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05-10-2011, 09:16 AM
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Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by go david krejci 430 View Post
He was doing it when he was here though. When Knuble left it was kind of on Hartnell to be that hell-raiser, and get 30-35 goals a year.

Even at that, he remains an enigma, and makes entirely too much to wonder whether or not he feels like playing on a given night. I actually wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to leave anyways.
He doesn't make too much. Go look up what other players with a similar game make -- David Backes, Brenden Morrow, Corey Perry, Shane Doan, Ryane Clowe (the only one making less than 4MM). Big, physical wingers you can pretty much bank on to score 20+ goals a year. And you can question how effective he is night in, night out, but I don't think you can ever really question if he feels like playing on a given night. He's always trying.

It's not his fault they expected him to just fill the void made by Knuble. If anyone's, it's the FO's. It's very arguable they shouldn't have let Knuble go in the first place, and they should've acknowledged those types of players don't often come into their own right away. Hell, Knuble didn't do much til he was 31. Hartnell's just 29.

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05-10-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
He doesn't make too much. Go look up what other players with a similar game make -- David Backes, Brenden Morrow, Corey Perry, Shane Doan, Ryane Clowe (the only one making less than 4MM). Big, physical wingers you can pretty much bank on to score 20+ goals a year. And you can question how effective he is night in, night out, but I don't think you can ever really question if he feels like playing on a given night. He's always trying.

It's not his fault they expected him to just fill the void made by Knuble. If anyone's, it's the FO's. It's very arguable they shouldn't have let Knuble go in the first place, and they should've acknowledged those types of players don't often come into their own right away. Hell, Knuble didn't do much til he was 31. Hartnell's just 29.
Yeah, I would rather have ALL of these players instead of Hartnell. All you've done there is illustrated just how overpaid Hartnell is, because all of those players are better.


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05-10-2011, 09:51 AM
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For the money he is paid to score where he is supposed to score, Hartnell is prone to ****ing up royally a little too much. I really like Hartnell's attitude, and I like that he goes balls out all the time, but I don't think there's ever been a less-talented player who has gotten paid like he has.

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05-10-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
I like Hartnell. But we need a guy like Kesler, who does everything known to man in hockey. Goes in front of the net, plays good D, can stay on his feet, good deflections, great shot, Always on ice for PP/PK.

Hartnell is just goes in front of the net, gritty, OK defense, some goals.
Kesler was a 'nobody' in the first round
he suddenly explodes in series against nashville and you make him out to be 'god-like'
whatever............
he's a one hit wonder
chances are good that, it will all end playing sanjose/detroit next round
they'll be all over him like white on rice

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05-10-2011, 10:08 AM
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I think we need a sticky thread to talk about every part of this team in a negative light. Let's dissect every little part, player by player, and attribute it to why this team failed. That's all I read on these forums any more. Give it some time before threads on Briere come back (people forget his playoff performance quickly), and give Giroux a few years to lose the "potential" sticker and we'll talk about him too.

/rant

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05-10-2011, 10:25 AM
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yeah
i still don't think there is anything wrong with the core of this team
my thinking is, if we had a different goalie in net, even the likes of Pekka Rinne , Ryan Miller , Niemi etc...
we would have had a totally different playoff run, and different motivation factor , and different attitude.

heck, if we had a different goalie last year during the SCFinals......... we just may have gone all the way
so, ONE bad position may have / may not have been the "root" of problems of what happened this year, and what could have potentially got them to last year

who knows. with a pekka rinne type goalie in between the pipes
we just may have had SC last year, and on our way to getting the second one
and guess what........... it could have been done with the same 'core' of players we have

imagine that ..


Last edited by Swiper the Fox: 05-10-2011 at 02:02 PM.
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05-10-2011, 12:07 PM
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phlocky
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I defended Hartnell when he was signed to his current contract. It was a little high for what he had accomplished to that point of his career but he had the potential to make that contract a bargin. I was willing to wait and see.

I gave him a pas last year as he was dealing with personal issues but after ANOTHER underwhelming performance this season I'm done with him. Get him out of here. Ditch his 4.2 mil and use it to get a REAL #1 goalie.

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05-10-2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
I like Hartnell. But we need a guy like Kesler, who does everything known to man in hockey. Goes in front of the net, plays good D, can stay on his feet, good deflections, great shot, Always on ice for PP/PK.
The Flyers have a guy like that. And he wears the same number, too.

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