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If You Had to Choose?

View Poll Results: Who is should be held accountable?
Fire the Coach, he is a bum who overworked the crew. 1 1.92%
Send a message, do not resign Leino, move one of Carter or Richards or Hartnell. 21 40.38%
Strip the C off Richards, and move Carter or Hartnell. 13 25.00%
Do nothing, everything is fine, just let them talk it out. 13 25.00%
Fire the Coach and GM, the core needs to stay intact. 4 7.69%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-10-2011, 09:31 AM
  #1
Cartsiephan*
 
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If You Had to Choose?

Do you hold the coach accountable and fire him if the players cannot get along with him?

Would you make a statement to the dressing room and get rid of some of the core; Carter, Richards, Hartnell, Leino(not part of core but spoke out against the coach)?


Just wondering where people stand on this given the recent history of the coaches being thrown out over the years but the players always being able to stay. A couple years back Lupul was sent packing, and Upshall was a cap casualty, but one by one a lot of the young guys have had a change of scenery. If there is a rift in the dressing room it is up to the coach and GM to sit down and finalize a plan, not quite sure "talking it out" is the right way to go, at this point the coach needs to have the ability to coach and a leader to help lead.

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05-10-2011, 09:33 AM
  #2
CharlieGirl
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I vote for option C. Leave it to the people involved and in the know to resolve and work out the best solution.

Most of the stuff we read and hear about is complete and utter ********, made up by desperate newspaper writers who need to fill a column. How much truth is in anything they write, only they know for sure.

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Old
05-10-2011, 09:49 AM
  #3
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Strip the C off Richards, and move Carter or Hartnell.

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05-10-2011, 10:03 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I vote for option C. Leave it to the people involved and in the know to resolve and work out the best solution.

Most of the stuff we read and hear about is complete and utter ********, made up by desperate newspaper writers who need to fill a column. How much truth is in anything they write, only they know for sure.
I agree that we cannot take the writersin Philly as journalists who are going to preach the truth, they are looking for an angle. But if we go back over the last couple years there have been a lot of similar issues. Even going back to the Bill Barber years, with Mark Recchi as the voice to the media saying that the players did not respect Barber.

I put a lot of blame on Snider and at this point Luuko who seem seem to play the enabler roles.

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05-10-2011, 10:08 AM
  #5
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I don't know what goes on in the locker room, but Richards has been annoying me the entire year. Give Pronger the 'C' and move Hartnell, if anyone is willing to take Scotty

Or you could always give Richards another year and see if he gets back to playing with heart, but this is Philadelphia. One year is enough to warrant a lynching.

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05-10-2011, 10:53 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Mgkibbles View Post
I don't know what goes on in the locker room, but Richards has been annoying me the entire year. Give Pronger the 'C' and move Hartnell, if anyone is willing to take Scotty

Or you could always give Richards another year and see if he gets back to playing with heart, but this is Philadelphia. One year is enough to warrant a lynching.
Problem is the window for a Cup is next year, maybe two years. Timonen and Pronger are not getting younger. This comes down to whether the core group can handle listening to what the coach tells them to do, even if it means doing some extra skating, because the coach is paid to get the maximum out of the group.

It is really discerning that the only voices complaining of the extra work are part of the core group: Leino, Richards, and Hartnell. What is even more disturbing is not only are the players quoted about being overworked, but also telling the coach how to manage the PP to the media. Seems like a lot of double-standard going on. The plaeyrs do not want to get called out by the media, but have no issue griping to the media about their issues. Spilled milk if you ask me.

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05-10-2011, 11:10 AM
  #7
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Give the C to Prong!

Moove Hartnell if you can.. But he has a NTC... Carter i want to keep him cause it's a true natural goal scorer

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05-10-2011, 11:15 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by buff View Post
Give the C to Prong!

Moove Hartnell if you can.. But he has a NTC... Carter i want to keep him cause it's a true natural goal scorer
Interesting, from Philly.com poll:

Should Jeff Carter stay or go?
Stay
925 (40.9%)
Go
1335 (59.1%)
Total votes = 2260

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05-10-2011, 11:16 AM
  #9
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Richards is a third line center and probably the best you can have in a team with Jordan Staal. Giroux and Briere are the number one and two with the order you want. Richards must be use to lock the best player of the order team. I think the coachs need to teach him like that for the future of the team. 5.7M a years is expensive but what it's done it's already done and we have to live with him.

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05-10-2011, 11:16 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Leave it to the people involved and in the know to resolve and work out the best solution.
Spot on.

No one on this message board is in a position to make a definitive statement about what should be done. We aren't there, we don't see what goes on, and we have to have faith in the people who are there to get things straight.

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Old
05-10-2011, 11:21 AM
  #11
Beef Invictus
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Why does nearly every option involve gutting this teams core?

Do we need to rebuild, or something?

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Old
05-10-2011, 11:23 AM
  #12
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I don't think most people realize what it would be like to lose 35 goals a year in Carter.

I think we need to make a statement and move a player or land a big player, but Richards and Carter are going no where.

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05-10-2011, 11:24 AM
  #13
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Get a Goalie.

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Old
05-10-2011, 11:27 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Why does nearly every option involve gutting this teams core?

Do we need to rebuild, or something?
Three coaches possibly in three years, continuing questions in the dressing room, failure to take the final step in the quest for the Cup. Getting swept by the Bruins, almost losing to a putrid Sabres team. A drop in play SINCE FEBRUARY!

It is not a rebuild, it is called a reallocation of assets. Get a goalie AND get the attention of the dressing room, AND possibly replenish positions of needs(RW, draft picks, prospect system, and of course a goalie).

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05-10-2011, 11:31 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
I don't think most people realize what it would be like to lose 35 goals a year in Carter.

I think we need to make a statement and move a player or land a big player, but Richards and Carter are going no where.
So what! You are going to be moving a RW to play alongside Giroux and JvR. You may see a drop in production, but is even 15 goals that big of a deal?


Pretty funny that people think if you move Carter all of the sudden they are going to play short a winger.....!

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05-10-2011, 11:33 AM
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Fire Lavi, trade Carter, strip the C from Richards and give it to Pronger and have Snider and Homer switch jobs.

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05-10-2011, 11:33 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Three coaches possibly in three years, continuing questions in the dressing room, failure to take the final step in the quest for the Cup. Getting swept by the Bruins, almost losing to a putrid Sabres team. A drop in play SINCE FEBRUARY!

It is not a rebuild, it is called a reallocation of assets. Get a goalie AND get the attention of the dressing room, AND possibly replenish positions of needs(RW, draft picks, prospect system, and of course a goalie).
Have you seen the number of players who need surgery? Doing something drastic isn't the solution. We don't need to trade Carter (I know, that reality must give you an aneurysm) to acquire a goalie. We have a guy named Bobrovsky, who can learn the ropes behind a Bryz or a Vokoun.

Let this team heal and rest. They've worked their ***** off for over a year, with less rest than anyone else. I include the Blackhawks, since so much of that winning team was scattered to the wind. The list of players who need surgery makes it pretty clear that everyone is more banged up than expected. Trading everyone because they can't play like superstars when so many key people are gimpy is a knee-jerk reaction.

Acquiring goalie should be the chief concern. Fulfilling your obsessive fantasy by trading Carter should be last on the list.

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05-10-2011, 11:55 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Fire Lavi, trade Carter, strip the C from Richards and give it to Pronger and have Snider and Homer switch jobs.
And do not allow Lukko around this team, period.

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05-10-2011, 11:56 AM
  #19
JVR21
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You missed the "Trade any variation of Carle, Hartnell, Versteeg and sign #1 goaltender" option.

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05-10-2011, 11:59 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Have you seen the number of players who need surgery? Doing something drastic isn't the solution. We don't need to trade Carter (I know, that reality must give you an aneurysm) to acquire a goalie. We have a guy named Bobrovsky, who can learn the ropes behind a Bryz or a Vokoun.

Let this team heal and rest. They've worked their ***** off for over a year, with less rest than anyone else. I include the Blackhawks, since so much of that winning team was scattered to the wind. The list of players who need surgery makes it pretty clear that everyone is more banged up than expected. Trading everyone because they can't play like superstars when so many key people are gimpy is a knee-jerk reaction.

Acquiring goalie should be the chief concern. Fulfilling your obsessive fantasy by trading Carter should be last on the list.


Trading Carter, Hartnell, or Richards solves the cap issues, and makes the young guys pay attention to the matter at hand. The coach is in charge, not the players. Moving the cap space allows Homer to be aggressive in getting Bryzgalov signed, mentoring Bobrovsky for the future, and give this team the best chance to move fwd to next year with a clean slate.

It is about bettering the position of this team, right now they are not good enough to win, and it showed. Not just in the playoffs, since February 26th, the last 30 or so games this team was bad. That does not bode well for your defense.

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05-10-2011, 12:02 PM
  #21
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I can't believe folks think they should strip the C from Richards.
Colossally stupid, IMO

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05-10-2011, 12:04 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
You missed the "Trade any variation of Carle, Hartnell, Versteeg and sign #1 goaltender" option.
To be honest I like Carle and Versteeg as part of the plan going into next year, Versteeg and Richards could be a nice pair and Carle had a very good year, just got overmatched in the playoffs.

I would not be against moving Carle if they feel Gustafsson can step up next season, which would mean bring back O'Donnell too.

Meszaros/Pronger
Timonen/Coburn
Gustafsson/O'Donnell

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05-10-2011, 12:06 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Trading Carter, Hartnell, or Richards solves the cap issues, and makes the young guys pay attention to the matter at hand. The coach is in charge, not the players. Moving the cap space allows Homer to be aggressive in getting Bryzgalov signed, mentoring Bobrovsky for the future, and give this team the best chance to move fwd to next year with a clean slate.

It is about bettering the position of this team, right now they are not good enough to win, and it showed. Not just in the playoffs, since February 26th, the last 30 or so games this team was bad. That does not bode well for your defense.
1) You have decided the players are in charge. You base this on nothing except speculation. If the players were in charge, the goaltending carousel we just witnessed wouldn't have happened. According to Meltzer, everyone was dissatisfied with it. So, since they're in charge, why didn't they do something about it? Go ahead. Explain.

2) Richards goes nowhere. If you think he is, you are out of touch with reality. Carter is going nowhere. If you think he is, you are out of touch with reality. Hartnell moving will likely result in Homer getting Yzerman'd again because of his NTC.

3) This team was injured and tired. We saw what they could do when healthy last year. Aside from all that, Holmgren has handcuffed himself to the salary cap. Any trade that moves Richards or Carter will only result in the team getting worse, because no player on this team or that we would get back in a trade replaces them. How you fail to see this...I don't know.

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05-10-2011, 12:07 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by buff View Post
5.7M a years is expensive but what it's done it's already done and we have to live with him.
Sadly, you're right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by buff View Post
Richards is a third line center
If there was a draft of only team captains, he'd be like the 20th player taken.

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05-10-2011, 12:08 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Any trade that moves Richards or Carter will only result in the team getting worse, because no player on this team or that we would get back in a trade replaces them.
You base this on nothing except speculation.

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