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Laviolette still building trust with captain Richards

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Old
05-10-2011, 09:59 AM
  #26
MiamiScreamingEagles
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Was it about five years ago that I grumbled when Richards was mentioned in the same breath as Bobby Clarke? This is the reason. He is not and never will be. Nor will anyone else. It is unfair. Clarke is in a select group of all-time great Captains in pro sports. Not just hockey. A leader of infinite proportions and monumental achievements. What Clarke did with Reggie Leach alone, not just as a hockey player but as a benevolent being is in itself something that is unlikely to be repeated in modern times. The term has been applied to Ken Linseman, Ron Sutter and Mike Ricci among others. Refrain from the ultimate comparison. Let Richards be the best Mike Richards there's ever been, not the next coming of Bobby Clarke.

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05-10-2011, 10:33 AM
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Was it about five years ago that I grumbled when Richards was mentioned in the same breath as Bobby Clarke? This is the reason. He is not and never will be. Nor will anyone else. It is unfair. Clarke is in a select group of all-time great Captains in pro sports. Not just hockey. A leader of infinite proportions and monumental achievements. What Clarke did with Reggie Leach alone, not just as a hockey player but as a benevolent being is in itself something that is unlikely to be repeated in modern times. The term has been applied to Ken Linseman, Ron Sutter and Mike Ricci among others. Refrain from the ultimate comparison. Let Richards be the best Mike Richards there's ever been, not the next coming of Bobby Clarke.
Agreed. And I hope he doesn't end up wanting to get the heck out of Philly because of the pressure from some fans and the stupidity of the media. Let the guy play hockey. He played injured for quite some time this season and now we're finding out Versteeg did the same, as did kimmo, as did Pronger, as did Carter. I'm sick of people calling them quitters. All of these guys are proven hockey players and when they aren't playing well, you have to know something is wrong. They're not robots.

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05-10-2011, 10:51 AM
  #28
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Something just doesn't seem right here.

Almost two years now that Lavi has been the head coach and he and Richards are still trying to build a relationship?

Also, not everyone is on the same page?

Strange stuff.

If push must really come to shove though, then I say see you later Richards.

Especially after his performance in the playoffs. Where the hell does this guy get the nerve to call out his coach?

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05-10-2011, 10:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ShotScore View Post
Something just doesn't seem right here.

Almost two years now that Lavi has been the head coach and he and Richards are still trying to build a relationship?

Also, not everyone is on the same page?

Strange stuff.

If push must really come to shove though, then I say see you later Richards.

Especially after his performance in the playoffs. Where the hell does this guy get the nerve to call out his coach?
If you had ever had a job, you'd know that you don't always agree with your boss.

Holy ****, the overreaction on this board is simply a sight to behold. Excuse me while I bang my head against the wall. It'll be less painful that reading some of the **** around here.

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05-10-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Was it about five years ago that I grumbled when Richards was mentioned in the same breath as Bobby Clarke? This is the reason. He is not and never will be. Nor will anyone else. It is unfair. Clarke is in a select group of all-time great Captains in pro sports. Not just hockey. A leader of infinite proportions and monumental achievements. What Clarke did with Reggie Leach alone, not just as a hockey player but as a benevolent being is in itself something that is unlikely to be repeated in modern times. The term has been applied to Ken Linseman, Ron Sutter and Mike Ricci among others. Refrain from the ultimate comparison. Let Richards be the best Mike Richards there's ever been, not the next coming of Bobby Clarke.
Bingo. While they play a similar style on the ice, the comparison is absurd. When Clarke says it, it's modesty. When anyone else says it, it's ridiculous.

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05-10-2011, 11:16 AM
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This is why I just read Bill M's stuff...

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05-10-2011, 11:19 AM
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Agreed. And I hope he doesn't end up wanting to get the heck out of Philly because of the pressure from some fans and the stupidity of the media. Let the guy play hockey. He played injured for quite some time this season and now we're finding out Versteeg did the same, as did kimmo, as did Pronger, as did Carter. I'm sick of people calling them quitters. All of these guys are proven hockey players and when they aren't playing well, you have to know something is wrong. They're not robots.
I agreed with you, until you added Carter. He is a quitter. Has all the talent in the world but lacks heart. Why, does he shoot from every fricken angle, because turning, cycling and trying to generate something else will result in physical play. His big bodies frame can't handle it??????? The guy is a useless and lazy wuss and needs out of here for someone with heart (or a goalie).

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05-10-2011, 11:23 AM
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Except, according to all reports, Richards and Stevens were bestest friends and Richards and crew were pissed when Stevens was fired. Stevens wasn't fired because Richards decreed it, he was fired because he was a crappy coach.
Stevens was fired because the players quit on him. I love how a coach who takes the team to the ECF's one year, and then two years later has an inconsistent season from his players who as most who will watch seem to lack effort on any given night and the coach gets fired. Then just a year and a half later the same thing happens, and once again it is a coach at fault.

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05-10-2011, 11:25 AM
  #34
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Wow the emotional responses over this are pretty amazing. The sensitivities are so fragile that you can't take any kind of seed of doubt about the relationship between the coach and captain and discuss it without getting into personal attacks on posters etc. Seriously..get over yourselves is right.

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05-10-2011, 11:25 AM
  #35
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I agreed with you, until you added Carter. He is a quitter. Has all the talent in the world but lacks heart. Why, does he shoot from every fricken angle, because turning, cycling and trying to generate something else will result in physical play. His big bodies frame can't handle it??????? The guy is a useless and lazy wuss and needs out of here for someone with heart (or a goalie).
He's also our top scorer, top face off guy and he's come back from pretty significant injuries. You have to shoot to score goals and if they don't produce goals, you hope for rebounds and scrums around the net. That's what he does best and if you take away half his goals from this season we don't even make the playoffs. You can ***** all you want but this year he came back from the flu, his grandfather's funeral and a badly sprained MCL. Now there's report saying he may need hip surgery. So while you're sitting around criticizing, I'll give him credit for gutting through a lot of adversity.

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05-10-2011, 11:46 AM
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He's also our top scorer, top face off guy and he's come back from pretty significant injuries. You have to shoot to score goals and if they don't produce goals, you hope for rebounds and scrums around the net. That's what he does best and if you take away half his goals from this season we don't even make the playoffs. You can ***** all you want but this year he came back from the flu, his grandfather's funeral and a badly sprained MCL. Now there's report saying he may need hip surgery. So while you're sitting around criticizing, I'll give him credit for gutting through a lot of adversity.
You lose Carters scoring and obviously you are getting porductivity from somewhere else. Giroux led the team in scoring, Briere almost matched Carters goal scoring in less games. The point that was being made is teams win by not coming down the ice and shooting from every angle, you need to establish the cycle, get the puck deep, get traffic to the net. It is not the quantity of the shots, it is the quality of the shots. He came back from the flu, oh man that is priceless.

Bottom line is he is a piece of the puzzle but he is far from being a piece that should not be considered in a move to help address a more serious issue, in goal.

This team could give up Carters production, fill the RW with a legit winger who can battle the boards, dig for pucks, and provide a more physical game and not be a lesser team. Then fill the real need on this team which is a legit #1 goalie. Carters game is well suited for the regular season, but come the playoffs, he is a zero. Better use of salary to get Bryzgalov.

The Bruins had one 30 goal scorer, Lucic. TB had Stamkos with 45, St Louis with 31, Lacavalier and then the rest were all a bunch of 10-18 goal scorers. Guys like Purcell, Moore, Malone, Bergenheim, Downie, Gagne, and Thompson.

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05-10-2011, 12:15 PM
  #37
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Richards hates the media. the media, in turn, hates richards and all of a sudden he's "moody". Totally overblown media sensationalism.

And Richards (and the rest of the team) are completely in the right for calling Lavy out on the Leighton issue. total **** show

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05-10-2011, 12:17 PM
  #38
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He's also our top scorer, top face off guy and he's come back from pretty significant injuries. You have to shoot to score goals and if they don't produce goals, you hope for rebounds and scrums around the net. That's what he does best and if you take away half his goals from this season we don't even make the playoffs. You can ***** all you want but this year he came back from the flu, his grandfather's funeral and a badly sprained MCL. Now there's report saying he may need hip surgery. So while you're sitting around criticizing, I'll give him credit for gutting through a lot of adversity.
Who cares what he does in the regular season. We have enough depth. We trade him for a number 1 goalie and his 36 goals aren't needed. You mention a few injuries this year but it has nothing to do with this year. Carter is a frustrating, predicatable and lazy player and always has been. He should be trying a lot harder and hitting often. No doubt he is good but I also think for that reason he can be traded for a real valuable asset in goal. With JVR playing the way I wished Carter would, we don't need Carter as much we do for a goalie.

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05-10-2011, 12:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Stevens was fired because the players quit on him. I love how a coach who takes the team to the ECF's one year, and then two years later has an inconsistent season from his players who as most who will watch seem to lack effort on any given night and the coach gets fired. Then just a year and a half later the same thing happens, and once again it is a coach at fault.
So you believe that Stevens was a good coach?

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05-10-2011, 12:25 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
You lose Carters scoring and obviously you are getting porductivity from somewhere else. Giroux led the team in scoring, Briere almost matched Carters goal scoring in less games. The point that was being made is teams win by not coming down the ice and shooting from every angle, you need to establish the cycle, get the puck deep, get traffic to the net. It is not the quantity of the shots, it is the quality of the shots. He came back from the flu, oh man that is priceless.

Bottom line is he is a piece of the puzzle but he is far from being a piece that should not be considered in a move to help address a more serious issue, in goal.

This team could give up Carters production, fill the RW with a legit winger who can battle the boards, dig for pucks, and provide a more physical game and not be a lesser team. Then fill the real need on this team which is a legit #1 goalie. Carters game is well suited for the regular season, but come the playoffs, he is a zero. Better use of salary to get Bryzgalov.

The Bruins had one 30 goal scorer, Lucic. TB had Stamkos with 45, St Louis with 31, Lacavalier and then the rest were all a bunch of 10-18 goal scorers. Guys like Purcell, Moore, Malone, Bergenheim, Downie, Gagne, and Thompson.

I hate this logic. It doesn't work like that, ever. Remember when they moved Knuble, and it was all as simple as "Hartnell will replace him!"?

Yeahhh. Didn't happen. Nobody on the team will replace Carter.

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05-10-2011, 12:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Stevens was fired because the players quit on him. I love how a coach who takes the team to the ECF's one year, and then two years later has an inconsistent season from his players who as most who will watch seem to lack effort on any given night and the coach gets fired. Then just a year and a half later the same thing happens, and once again it is a coach at fault.
Stevens was fired because he blows. Don't put that on anyone but Stevens.

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05-10-2011, 12:32 PM
  #42
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Meltzer on the possible Captain/and other players and Coach rift

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This is why I just read Bill M's stuff...
I do too..presume you caught today's piece about this issue??..nice and reasoned. Again there is an issue with the coach and captain..nothing new like Meltzer says. Lavi and Brind'amour did butt heads as well and then got on the same page. Richards will have to do the same and I guess others if what Meltzer says is true. Again it bears following b/c no matter what it's important.

Instead people on here right away take it as some kind of personal slight against Richards when that is hardly the case although yeah there are people who propagate that angle. Nobody should be suggesting that Richards gets traded due to this...because he isn't and shouldn't. However, he's going to have to have total buy in to Lavi at some point if the team is going to accomplish it's cup goal. If not well the coach may become a liability..sad but true. If it means the team brings in other leaders or reassesses the leadership roles on the squad well so be it. That is what should be discussed not childish attacks against posters insinuating that any talk about this captain and coach rift is "hate" talk.....so freaking annoying....


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Over the last few months, but especially throughout the playoffs, there have been numerous rumors about dissent between various Flyers' players and head coach Peter Laviolette. One of the most prevalent rumors behind the scenes was that team captain Mike Richards was no longer on speaking terms with Laviolette.

Yesterday, 610 WIP's Glen Macnow reported the Richards story on the air. While Laviolette said it was untrue that he and the captain were not speaking at all, he did admit that his relationship with Richards is "something we're working on" moving forward. It's been said that Laviolette initially clashed with Rod Brind'Amour in Carolina but the two eventually got on the same page and won a Cup together.

It should also be noted that Richards is not the only player involved here. There have been equally prevalent rumors from credible sources that there was a lot of player anger directed at Laviolette for the goaltending carousel during the playoffs; namely the decision to elevate Michael Leighton and then start him over Brian Boucher in Game 6 after Leighton had only played in one regular season game with the big club this season.

I have a world of respect for commentator Bill Clement, but I have to partially disagree with his comment after Game 4 of the Boston series along the lines of "it would be 100 percent wrong to blame Peter Laviolette and the coaches." The primary blame goes on the players, no doubt about it. But Laviolette came up every bit as small as the team and he deserves his fair share of blame.

His handling of matchups in the first game of the Boston series left a lot to be desired, and some have said that his day-in and day-out intensity needs to be toned down just a bit because it's the main reason why he's gained the reputation as a coach with a short shelf life until he gets tuned out.

Let me be crystal clear here that I do not advocate firing Laviolette because the captain and other players aren't his biggest fans. The Flyers have changed coaches too many times in recent years, and I still think Laviolette has pushed the right buttons more often than not during his tenure here so far. But he has also alienated several players who carry influence around the locker room, and mending fences and establishing better communication needs to be a priority if the relationship is to be successful going ahead. Alternatively, Paul Holmgren will need to remove some of those influences.

Winning cures a lot of ills in hockey. It's easy to forget now that, near the trade deadline this year, Homer avoided making any moves involving current roster players because he didn't want to disturb the chemistry that seemed to be in place.

Likewise, it's just as easy to forget that there were as many -- if not more -- rumors of dissent and locker room factions last season after the Olympic break. Somehow, the team found a way to get on the same page and come within a whisker of winning the Cup. Several players have said they like playing the system Laviolette preaches, so getting buy-in in that regard is not a problem.

Can Laviolette coexist successfully with his players next year? Absolutely. But it's going to take a little more flexibility on his part, and perhaps a few changes in the locker room to remove players with negative influences. I also think at least one assistant coaching change or addition may be in order.

During Mike Keenan's most successful years as a coach, he had EJ McGuire as his right hand man. The gentlemanly, brainy and calm McGuire used to joke that his main job under Keenan was to "clean the blood off the walls" -- in other words, sooth hurt feelings with a more positive message, provide a sounding board for players and intelligently decide which issues needed to be brought to the head coach's attention and which ones did not.

There was only one EJ McGuire in many, many ways but the Flyers could use an assistant who balances off Laviolette's fiery disposition and is equally trusted by the coach and players alike. That's not meant as an indictment of Craig Berube or Kevin McCarthy, but rather an acknowledgment that there was a disconnect that developed this season between the head coach and his team and that perhaps an additional liaison would be helpful come next season.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...lette/45/35767

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05-10-2011, 12:33 PM
  #43
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So you believe that Stevens was a good coach?
I'd like to know this answer as well.....my God I hope not!

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05-10-2011, 12:48 PM
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Story out of nothing.

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05-10-2011, 12:49 PM
  #45
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Bottom line is he is a piece of the puzzle but he is far from being a piece that should not be considered in a move to help address a more serious issue, in goal.

This team could give up Carters production, fill the RW with a legit winger who can battle the boards, dig for pucks, and provide a more physical game and not be a lesser team. Then fill the real need on this team which is a legit #1 goalie. Carters game is well suited for the regular season, but come the playoffs, he is a zero. Better use of salary to get Bryzgalov.
Jesus ****ing Christ, how can you not get it through your ****ing head? CARTER IS NOT BEING TRADED! HE HAS AN 11 YEAR CONTRACT THAT THE ORGANIZATION JUST GAVE HIM!

I don't care how much you ****ing hate him or how much you want a goalie, Carter is here for the ****ing long haul. Don't like it? Well ***** and moan all you want, opine all you want, come up with hypothetical deals all you want, but he's NOT LEAVING! What is your unhealthy obsession with the guy? This thread is about another stupid issue and you STILL manage to turn it to trade Carter!

Now, on topic. Agreed with MSE, the Clarke comparisons from the start were unfair. Clarke was one of the greatest players of in the NHL, not to mention one of the greatest captains.

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05-10-2011, 12:50 PM
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If Lavi goes can we get Ted Nolan?
Post of the Year.

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05-10-2011, 12:50 PM
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Story out of nothing.
Thanks for the tweet...

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05-10-2011, 12:53 PM
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Jesus ****ing Christ, how can you not get it through your ****ing head? CARTER IS NOT BEING TRADED! HE HAS AN 11 YEAR CONTRACT THAT THE ORGANIZATION JUST GAVE HIM!

I don't care how much you ****ing hate him or how much you want a goalie, Carter is here for the ****ing long haul. Don't like it? Well ***** and moan all you want, opine all you want, come up with hypothetical deals all you want, but he's NOT LEAVING! What is your unhealthy obsession with the guy? This thread is about another stupid issue and you STILL manage to turn it to trade Carter!

Now, on topic. Agreed with MSE, the Clarke comparisons from the start were unfair. Clarke was one of the greatest players of in the NHL, not to mention one of the greatest captains.
I remember when Gretzky got traded by the Oilers..albeit for financial reasons..still nobody is untouchable and shouldn't be. That's just bad business...

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05-10-2011, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Stevens was fired because the players quit on him. I love how a coach who takes the team to the ECF's one year, and then two years later has an inconsistent season from his players who as most who will watch seem to lack effort on any given night and the coach gets fired. Then just a year and a half later the same thing happens, and once again it is a coach at fault.
It was all supposed to change when Laviolette was swapped in for Stevens. They were supposed to be better conditioned. Their breakouts were to be better. Special teams were going to get better. They were supposed to be more consistent. They were supposed to give better effort. The SYSTEM would cut down on mistakes and breakdowns.

The result?

Ultrafail.

Personally, I don't blame the coach. But it is clear that many here deify the "core" players and will rail at any criticism of them. Those jerseys in the stands are real expensive, and no one buys a coach's jersey...

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05-10-2011, 01:00 PM
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It was all supposed to change when Laviolette was swapped in for Stevens. They were supposed to be better conditioned. Their breakouts were to be better. Special teams were going to get better. They were supposed to be more consistent. They were supposed to give better effort. The SYSTEM would cut down on mistakes and breakdowns.

The result?

Ultrafail.
I guess you already forgot the time that Lavi turned the team around and they went to the Finals.

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