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The Bruins Model

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Old
05-10-2011, 01:52 AM
  #51
Ace2008
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Originally Posted by JanErixon20 View Post
In watched the Bruins the past couple of seasons, I starting thinking that this is a model that the Rangers could follow. As Tortorella said, they are never going to be able to build like the Caps or Pens did with top 10 picks for a few seasons in a row.

The Bruins are built from the back of the ice. Solid goaltending. Their best player leads a strong defense. And a group of forwards that are good, but not great. Their top line is Lucic Krejci and Horton. The rest of the forward group is filled by guys like Bergeron and Mark Recchi, Michael Ryder, etc.

I think the Rangers can become what the Bruins are. A solid 100 point team that has the potential to challenge for the Cup. They have the goaltender and a strong, young defense. Their forwards are good, hard working guys with some skills, who are also young and hopefully getting better.

I think it's a good model to follow, just without the whole choking up in tight spots in the playoffs.


every watched the Bruins w/o Zdeno....exactly limp like the Flyers w/o pronger


and you can save the comparisons....a 6'6" NHLer gets to legally use a longer stick....longer stick_+bigger reach+narrow NHL rink= legalized form of competitive advantage
Chara skates and passes well and is 6'9" against someone like a Briere or a Gerbe thats a full 13 inches of reach advantage minimum


thats why teams are scouting smooth skating giant defenders like Jamieson Olympiak and Tyler Myers/ V.Hedman etc....every NHL GM wants the next chara type of Dman....heck even JAgr said that Gill was the toughest NHL Dman to play against...and thats a slow 6'7 gill....enough said.

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05-10-2011, 03:36 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Frankly I'm sick and tired of being a hard working grind it out team full of 3rd liners. I'd rather have a real top line full of lazy snipers. Dumping the puck in and forecheking all game does nothing for you if you don't have the skating and stick skills to work it into the slot and score. The Bruins only got to where they are because TT stood on his head for the entire season. We if anything need to follow the Red Wings model. But that of course requires an owner who genuinely cares about his team.

We have a premiere goalie and top defensive line. Gaborik is a glass statue and is too unreliable. What we need is a true center, we've been trying to work around having one for years not and it's not working. No NHL (or NBA team for that matter) has won a championship in recent memory without a true legitimate front line center, who can above all else score.
It's quotes like these that make me wonder how many people here were actually fans from 98 until 04.

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05-10-2011, 06:15 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Frankly I'm sick and tired of being a hard working grind it out team full of 3rd liners. I'd rather have a real top line full of lazy snipers. Dumping the puck in and forecheking all game does nothing for you if you don't have the skating and stick skills to work it into the slot and score. The Bruins only got to where they are because TT stood on his head for the entire season. We if anything need to follow the Red Wings model. But that of course requires an owner who genuinely cares about his team.

We have a premiere goalie and top defensive line. Gaborik is a glass statue and is too unreliable. What we need is a true center, we've been trying to work around having one for years not and it's not working. No NHL (or NBA team for that matter) has won a championship in recent memory without a true legitimate front line center, who can above all else score.
If you think Gaborik is too unreliable, then why would you want a whole team of him?

Also as someone said before, this extreme will get us just as far as a team full of grinders. The only difference is that we probably will go down without a fight.

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05-10-2011, 07:52 AM
  #54
JanErixon20
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Originally Posted by Ace2008 View Post
every watched the Bruins w/o Zdeno....exactly limp like the Flyers w/o pronger


and you can save the comparisons....a 6'6" NHLer gets to legally use a longer stick....longer stick_+bigger reach+narrow NHL rink= legalized form of competitive advantage
Chara skates and passes well and is 6'9" against someone like a Briere or a Gerbe thats a full 13 inches of reach advantage minimum


thats why teams are scouting smooth skating giant defenders like Jamieson Olympiak and Tyler Myers/ V.Hedman etc....every NHL GM wants the next chara type of Dman....heck even JAgr said that Gill was the toughest NHL Dman to play against...and thats a slow 6'7 gill....enough said.
Nobody on the Rangers is going to be compared to Chara. But if Staal develops into the player the Rangers think he will, and you add in McDonagh and Girardi and maybe McIlrath and Sauer ....that's not a bad group of physical d-men. Instead of the Bruins having Chara, one guy, out 25 minutes a night, the Rangers could possibly have 4 or 5 very good dmen playing 20+ minutes a night.

I'm not saying they have to be built EXACTLY how Boston is. But the way the Rangers are run, finishing with the top pick and worst record is not an option. They have to be creative in both their drafting and UFA/trade pickups. Boston has done a good job building that way. At least I think so.

Someone mentioned Detroit. What they have done is remarkable. Datsyuk was drafted 171st. Zetterberg was #210. Holmstrom was #257. Franzen was taken at 97. That's the perfect storm, it doesn't happen that often.

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05-10-2011, 08:56 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JanErixon20 View Post
In watched the Bruins the past couple of seasons, I starting thinking that this is a model that the Rangers could follow. As Tortorella said, they are never going to be able to build like the Caps or Pens did with top 10 picks for a few seasons in a row.

The Bruins are built from the back of the ice. Solid goaltending. Their best player leads a strong defense. And a group of forwards that are good, but not great. Their top line is Lucic Krejci and Horton. The rest of the forward group is filled by guys like Bergeron and Mark Recchi, Michael Ryder, etc.

I think the Rangers can become what the Bruins are. A solid 100 point team that has the potential to challenge for the Cup. They have the goaltender and a strong, young defense. Their forwards are good, hard working guys with some skills, who are also young and hopefully getting better.

I think it's a good model to follow, just without the whole choking up in tight spots in the playoffs.
I agree but one thing the blueshirts are missing and its a big thing or guy named Chara. Ever since Chara was traded from the NYI at age 23 or something like that his teams have become eastern conference power houses. Ottawa and now the B's. He is alot like Pronger where his teams go far in the playoffs. The ting with Chara are his stats are not overwhelming but he controls the entire game. It's no coincidence his teams are always powerhouses. Unless the undertaker from the 2010 draft becomes that guy I see no one in the rangers system that can do this. To be real the whole league wishes they had a player or prospect like pronger

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05-10-2011, 09:12 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
We are already a similar team to the Bruins. While they are a team that can somewhat score, they have to play a game like ours because they don't have much skill. They desperately need a true sniper if they ever want to be an elite team.


Milan Lucic - David Krejci - Nathan Horton
Brad Marchand - Patrice Bergeron - Mark Recchi
Rich Peverley - Chris Kelly - Michael Ryder
Daniel Paille - Gregory Campbell - Shawn Thornton

Zdeno Chara - Johnny Boychuk
Dennis Seidenberg - Tomas Kaberle
Andrew Ference - Adam McQuaid

Tim Thomas
Tuukka Rask


___________ - Brad Richards* - Marian Gaborik
Brandon Dubinsky - Artem Anisimov - Ryan Callahan
Wojtek Wolski - Derek Stepan - Mats Zuccarello
___________ - Brian Boyle - Brandon Prust

Marc Staal - Dan Girardi
Ryan McDonagh - Michael Sauer
__________ - Michael Del Zotto

Henrik Lundqvist
Martin Biron


If the Bruins didn't get lucky this year with Tim Thomas, and they were very lucky because he'll never be able to come close to what he did again, then they'd have the same amount of points as us. Likewise, if we had a little bit more lucky on our side, we'd have a few more games in hand.
Didn't Tim Thomas win a Vezina trophy a few seasons ago? I think he should win it again this year as well so after cleaning up the NHL for 2 out of the last 3 seasons one cannot think it's luck anymore in my opinion

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05-10-2011, 11:17 AM
  #57
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First we wanted to copy the Devils.

Then the Redwings.

Now the Bruins?

WTF

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05-10-2011, 11:56 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by mm11 View Post
I agree but one thing the blueshirts are missing and its a big thing or guy named Chara. Ever since Chara was traded from the NYI at age 23 or something like that his teams have become eastern conference power houses. Ottawa and now the B's. He is alot like Pronger where his teams go far in the playoffs. The ting with Chara are his stats are not overwhelming but he controls the entire game. It's no coincidence his teams are always powerhouses. Unless the undertaker from the 2010 draft becomes that guy I see no one in the rangers system that can do this. To be real the whole league wishes they had a player or prospect like pronger
As I said in my post above yours, the Rangers don't have a Chara, or even a Pronger, but they do have a bunch of physical, young d-men to build around.

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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
First we wanted to copy the Devils.

Then the Redwings.

Now the Bruins?

WTF
Who said anything about those other teams? And as I mentioned earlier with the Wings, they are the perfect storm. They drafted guys way down in the draft who turned into stud players. That doesn't happen often.

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05-10-2011, 12:23 PM
  #59
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
First we wanted to copy the Devils.

Then the Redwings.

Now the Bruins?

WTF
Anything is better than following the Glen Sather game plan.

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05-10-2011, 01:58 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Anything is better than following the Glen Sather game plan.
IDK, the Glen Sather game plan has seemed to be doing pretty well all things considered.

I guess 10 homegrown players plus a few who were nobodies until they came to NY is a bad system.

Sather has done terrible with FAs, but since 2004, the way that they have been able to integrate youth while keeping the team competitive is quite a feat. Only one year since the lockout of no playoffs.

I know some would have loved to have a top 5 pick and such, but no matter what as long as Henrik Lundqvist is our goalie, that won't happen.

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05-10-2011, 02:19 PM
  #61
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
IDK, the Glen Sather game plan has seemed to be doing pretty well all things considered.

I guess 10 homegrown players plus a few who were nobodies until they came to NY is a bad system.

Sather has done terrible with FAs, but since 2004, the way that they have been able to integrate youth while keeping the team competitive is quite a feat. Only one year since the lockout of no playoffs.

I know some would have loved to have a top 5 pick and such, but no matter what as long as Henrik Lundqvist is our goalie, that won't happen.
I think we are headed in the right direction but 2 playoff wins in 10 years is failure, no matter how you slice and dice it.

Selecting Bobby S., when Giroux and Lucic is painful, not even going to discuss 2003 draft.

He has done far more evil than good....

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05-10-2011, 03:14 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
IDK, the Glen Sather game plan has seemed to be doing pretty well all things considered.

I guess 10 homegrown players plus a few who were nobodies until they came to NY is a bad system.

Sather has done terrible with FAs, but since 2004, the way that they have been able to integrate youth while keeping the team competitive is quite a feat. Only one year since the lockout of no playoffs.

I know some would have loved to have a top 5 pick and such, but no matter what as long as Henrik Lundqvist is our goalie, that won't happen.
It's been working to a decent degree lately, but as a whole, I don't know how anyone could look at it as anything but an abject failure. We're one of the NHL's premiere franchises, and I don't really consider first round exits each year to be a success.

Again, I think we're heading in the right direction, but the whole of his 11 year tenure has been pretty abysmal.

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05-10-2011, 03:18 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It's been working to a decent degree lately, but as a whole, I don't know how anyone could look at it as anything but an abject failure. We're one of the NHL's premiere franchises, and I don't really consider first round exits each year to be a success.

Again, I think we're heading in the right direction, but the whole of his 11 year tenure has been pretty abysmal.
I don't think anybody here can rationally argue against that.

But I think it's not too nuts to say post-lockout the Sather era has been much more bearable. I just wish we had as much success with first rounders as we have with second rounders.

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05-10-2011, 03:21 PM
  #64
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I don't think anybody here can rationally argue against that.

But I think it's not too nuts to say post-lockout the Sather era has been much more bearable. I just wish we had as much success with first rounders as we have with second rounders.
I don't know. The drafting has been better, and he's made some solid trades. But he also signed Wade Redden, Chris Drury, Scott Gomez, Ales Kotalik, Donald Brashear, etc in the post-lockout era. There have been some positives, for sure, and we've become respectable again, but I still don't consider it a "good job" by any means. If he had done a good job, we'd be competing for conference titles and Stanley Cups. Not squeaking into the postseason each year.

Slightly less unbearable, for me.

I'll still be dancing in the streets when the guy retires.

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05-10-2011, 03:30 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I don't know. The drafting has been better, and he's made some solid trades. But he also signed Wade Redden, Chris Drury, Scott Gomez, Ales Kotalik, Donald Brashear, etc in the post-lockout era. There have been some positives, for sure, and we've become respectable again, but I still don't consider it a "good job" by any means. If he had done a good job, we'd be competing for conference titles and Stanley Cups. Not squeaking into the postseason each year.

Slightly less unbearable, for me.

I'll still be dancing in the streets when the guy retires.
We all should be, but in the grand scheme of things we were able to turn Gomez into McDonagh who looks like he has the potential to be a studly d-man, he's gotten rid of Kotalik and Brashear. The biggest problems are Drury and Redden, and our lack of first round impact players.

On the other hand, i think our second round and beyond drafting has been some of the best in the NHL, we've been able to carve out an almost entirely homegrown team (especially if you count the "scrubs" who came here and became good players like Prust and Boyle), have a great top 4 with 3 of them being homegrown guys (arguable, just my opinion) and all around have a very solid team. If we were able to draft Giroux instead of Sangs, and another offensive stalwart to have a real top line, we'd be competing for Cups.

Has he done a good job? No. However, in spite of that we're still a team very close to competing for a Cup, atleast the way I see it.

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05-10-2011, 03:33 PM
  #66
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Yeah, I agree, we're not far from competing for a Cup. It just pisses me off that it took 11 years for him to get us to that point. I was only a hockey fan for a few years before our Cup, but I remember what that was like. Anything less than competing for a Cup annually, in my eyes, is unacceptable for our franchise.

So it's like 11 years of failure, with hopefully the 12th being an acceptable season.

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05-10-2011, 03:51 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Has he done a good job? No. However, in spite of that we're still a team very close to competing for a Cup, atleast the way I see it.
Very close? I think that's pushing it, personally. I mean if we're very close, then what's Vancouver, Detroit, SJ, Pitt, Philly, Washington, Chicago, Boston & TB?

We have some very good pieces but we're still a team that has a putrid powerplay, is more than just a little bit green, and lacks game breakers.

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05-10-2011, 03:54 PM
  #68
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Very close? I think that's pushing it, personally. I mean if we're very close, then what's Vancouver, Detroit, SJ, Pitt, Philly, Washington, Chicago, Boston & TB?

We have some very good pieces but we're still a team that has a putrid powerplay, is more than just a little bit green, and lacks game breakers.
They're cup contenders already.

We're close to a cup contender. Richards (a PPQB and an elite first liner) and perhaps another scoring winger and we're there.

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