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Scott Hartnell is good in front of the net

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Old
05-10-2011, 12:22 PM
  #26
Coppy
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
I like Hartnell. But we need a guy like Kesler, who does everything known to man in hockey. Goes in front of the net, plays good D, can stay on his feet, good deflections, great shot, Always on ice for PP/PK.

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05-10-2011, 01:15 PM
  #27
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Villa View Post
Yeah, I would rather have ALL of these players instead of Hartnell. All you've done there is illustrated just how overpaid Hartnell is, because all of those players are better.

The point isn't whether you'd prefer those guys, it's that they do lots of things similar to Hartnell. It makes sense that he makes what he makes.

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05-10-2011, 01:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
I think you're selling Hartnell way short here by comparing him to Knuble. Knuble was better at literally parking himself in front of them net. But Hartnell is a better all around player. By saying that Hartnell isn't Knuble you act like Hartnell is bad at being in front of the net.

He generates rebounds, and when he is on his game plays those rebounds really well to other players crashing late (as he did in last years playoffs). He can park himself infront of the net. He is, by no means, immovable, but certainly can create screens and tips.

And more importantly, there is no one else on this roster that can/should play that role. You mentioned Richards. Playing Richards or Jvr (as others have mentioned) in that role would be a massive waste of their talents.

Hartnell is not worth his 4 mill cap hit. But at the same time, you can not simply get rid of him to create cap space without bringing in someone else who can give you what he does.
I don't compare Richards and jvr implying we should use them...but rather we are mis -using hartnell...I agree with you That we don't have a in front of the net role player, that's mt point!

Hartnell is paid too much (and too good at other stuff) to be a role player

Who isn't very good at his role

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05-10-2011, 05:59 PM
  #29
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Our best guy in front of the net is Pronger

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05-10-2011, 06:43 PM
  #30
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scott hartnell is a 4 million dollar a year mistake.

we have versteeg who is a 3 million dollar a year mistake

Leighton who is the 2 million dollar a year mistake

and shelley who is the 1 million dollar a year mistake

that is 1/6th of the cap wasted.

versteeg is the only one who can change my mind as he didnt have a full year in the system.

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05-10-2011, 07:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by goodrev View Post
scott hartnell is a 4 million dollar a year mistake.

we have versteeg who is a 3 million dollar a year mistake

Leighton who is the 2 million dollar a year mistake

and shelley who is the 1 million dollar a year mistake

that is 1/6th of the cap wasted.

versteeg is the only one who can change my mind as he didnt have a full year in the system.
Lets be real. Hartnell isn't worth 4 million, Versteeg probably isn't worth 3.1 million. But they are still two 20+ goal scorers who both bring more than just goals to their teams. That isn't 7 million cap WASTED. Each is slightly overpaid.

Shelley/Leighton hopefully will be in the AHL next year, so their money won't count against the cap.

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05-10-2011, 08:51 PM
  #32
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its not a complete waste, but its money that could be much better spent elsewhere.

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05-10-2011, 09:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by goodrev View Post
its not a complete waste, but its money that could be much better spent elsewhere.
Every contending team has a bad contract or two. Flyers just happen to have more than most/all

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05-10-2011, 09:50 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
Every contending team has a bad contract or two. Flyers just happen to have more than most/all
No. No. No.


Last edited by decadentia: 05-10-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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05-10-2011, 09:55 PM
  #35
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We don't need to move him off the team...just out of the crease. ><

And a knuble esque role player wouldn't be frowned upon in the offseason imo

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05-10-2011, 10:08 PM
  #36
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this thread started out nice with the comments about how vital hartnell is to this team. he's a real hockey player. he grinds it out and sacrifices to make things happen. a great example of his ability to will things in our favor is the stanley cup finals game 6 3rd period ping pong tying goal. thats the play of a player who refused to let things die. when he's on, he's one of our best players. Everyones gonna get bumps and bruises but he really does play fearless , like a true Flyer should. He didnt have the best year but he rolls with the vibe and the vibe sucked this year in the playoffs. I think he's essential to us winning a cupple cups. We're a couple months of healing and a goalie away! I still believe. I was born in 1976. one year to late for our last cup and this is the greatest team i've ever seen us assemble. We cannot piss it away.

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05-10-2011, 10:49 PM
  #37
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And a knuble esque role player wouldn't be frowned upon in the offseason imo
How many of those are there in the whole league, and how many are available this offseason?

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05-10-2011, 11:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
True. True. But im sorry to say, but Richie will not score 43 goals in a season like Kesler did.

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05-10-2011, 11:37 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
True. True. But im sorry to say, but Richie will not score 43 goals in a season like Kesler did.
Might as well trade him then eh.

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05-11-2011, 12:14 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
True. True. But im sorry to say, but Richie will not score 43 goals in a season like Kesler did.
Player X career stats:
GP: 453
G:133
A:216
Pts: 349

Player Y career stats:
GP: 484
G: 131
A:157
Pts:288


Which would you rather have?

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05-11-2011, 01:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
True. True. But im sorry to say, but Richie will not score 43 goals in a season like Kesler did.
You don't really know Richards and his play nor do you know Kesler and his play I'm guessing. I'll clear things up a bit for you though so you are lucky.


First we'll start with Kesler. How much do you really know about him, his career and his abilities???? Probably just what you read in box scores I'm guessing. Here's the 411 on Kesler. Until this past season he ALWAYS played on Vanc's 3rd line matching up against the opposing teams top line. He is a gifted 2-way player who is VERY good in his own zone. Until 2 years ago he rarely saw any PP time and never had a legit offensive partner on his line until Sundin was signed by the Canucks midway through the 08/09 season and it's no coincidence that this was the 1st year he topped 25 goals in a season. If Kesler was playing on their 3rd line still, it's VERY unlikely that he would have topped 30 goals this or any season. It's not that he isn't capable of doing so (obviously because he just hit 41 goals this year) but that he was FOCUSING on a different role.

Now for Richards. Mike Richards plays on the Flyers 3rd line. He is ASKED to play a defensive minded game at even strength and to shut down the opposing teams top line. Fully HALF of his points over the last 4 years have come on special teams. Think about that for a second. He has scored 112 goals, 171 assists, 283 points. During that span, he scored 50 goals, 89 assists, 139 points on special teams. NOBODY has that high of a percentage on his points from special teams. Richards HAS the ability to be a very good offensive player (as is evident that he's been on our #1 PP unit for the past 4+ seasons and the points he produces on special teams) but he is simply NOT asked to do so at even strength. IF he were to be moved up to a scoring line and we had another true shut-down center to take on the other teams top line then it is COMPLETELY plausable for Richards to top the 40 goal mark. Hell, he topped the 30 goal mark twice and was at 26 another season ALL while playing a defensive role first at even strength. He's no slouch offensively, it's simply better for the TEAM to have him shut down the other teams top line and let other guys provide the offensive punch at even strength.


While we are on this train of thought, CARTER fell victum to this part of this year and last too. He is a very capable 2-way player and when we put him on Richards wing he sacraficed personal stats for the good of the team. You guys need to look further than just what the stats "tell you."

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05-11-2011, 08:21 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You don't really know Richards and his play nor do you know Kesler and his play I'm guessing. I'll clear things up a bit for you though so you are lucky.


First we'll start with Kesler. How much do you really know about him, his career and his abilities???? Probably just what you read in box scores I'm guessing. Here's the 411 on Kesler. Until this past season he ALWAYS played on Vanc's 3rd line matching up against the opposing teams top line. He is a gifted 2-way player who is VERY good in his own zone. Until 2 years ago he rarely saw any PP time and never had a legit offensive partner on his line until Sundin was signed by the Canucks midway through the 08/09 season and it's no coincidence that this was the 1st year he topped 25 goals in a season. If Kesler was playing on their 3rd line still, it's VERY unlikely that he would have topped 30 goals this or any season. It's not that he isn't capable of doing so (obviously because he just hit 41 goals this year) but that he was FOCUSING on a different role.

Now for Richards. Mike Richards plays on the Flyers 3rd line. He is ASKED to play a defensive minded game at even strength and to shut down the opposing teams top line. Fully HALF of his points over the last 4 years have come on special teams. Think about that for a second. He has scored 112 goals, 171 assists, 283 points. During that span, he scored 50 goals, 89 assists, 139 points on special teams. NOBODY has that high of a percentage on his points from special teams. Richards HAS the ability to be a very good offensive player (as is evident that he's been on our #1 PP unit for the past 4+ seasons and the points he produces on special teams) but he is simply NOT asked to do so at even strength. IF he were to be moved up to a scoring line and we had another true shut-down center to take on the other teams top line then it is COMPLETELY plausable for Richards to top the 40 goal mark. Hell, he topped the 30 goal mark twice and was at 26 another season ALL while playing a defensive role first at even strength. He's no slouch offensively, it's simply better for the TEAM to have him shut down the other teams top line and let other guys provide the offensive punch at even strength.


While we are on this train of thought, CARTER fell victum to this part of this year and last too. He is a very capable 2-way player and when we put him on Richards wing he sacraficed personal stats for the good of the team. You guys need to look further than just what the stats "tell you."
Never thought of it like that. Richards has always been playing with the 3rd line and makes those guys look good like Versteeg. Richards probably assisted on everyone of his goals.

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05-12-2011, 11:39 AM
  #43
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The Flyers have a guy like that. And he wears the same number, too.
I'll take Kes over Carts any day. Kesler's 1st round performance against Chicago is on par with Carter's career playoff performance.

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05-12-2011, 11:45 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
Never thought of it like that. Richards has always been playing with the 3rd line and makes those guys look good like Versteeg. Richards probably assisted on everyone of his goals.
On a related side note, Richards' numbers from last year likely would be higher if he hadn't spent about two months feeding Gagne passes, trying to get him going. It got to the point where I was yelling at him to shoot as much as I was at Giroux.

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05-12-2011, 12:32 PM
  #45
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I'll take Kes over Carts any day. Kesler's 1st round performance against Chicago is on par with Carter's career playoff performance.
Kesler's first round performance against Chicago is on par or better than his own career playoff performance. Up until last week, he was pitifully bad.

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05-12-2011, 12:40 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Kesler's first round performance against Chicago is on par or better than his own career playoff performance. Up until last week, he was pitifully bad.
one good playoff round makes you a playoff performer tho. Just ask certian people on this very board.

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05-12-2011, 12:47 PM
  #47
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Kesler's first round performance against Chicago is on par or better than his own career playoff performance. Up until last week, he was pitifully bad.
Jeff Carter: 47 GP, 13 G, 8 A, -14
Ryan Kesler: 36 GP, 8 G, 21, A, +7

I'll take Kesler in the playoffs over Carter.

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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
one good playoff round makes you a playoff performer tho. Just ask certian people on this very board.
I'm not sayng Kesler is a god in the playoffs based on his performance this round...I'm just saying I'd rather have their #17 than our #17.

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05-12-2011, 01:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by hof2120 View Post
Jeff Carter: 47 GP, 13 G, 8 A, -14
Ryan Kesler: 36 GP, 8 G, 21, A, +7

I'll take Kesler in the playoffs over Carter.

I'm not sayng Kesler is a god in the playoffs based on his performance this round...I'm just saying I'd rather have their #17 than our #17.
Remove this year's stats from Kesler and you see 3 whole goals and 11 assists since he entered the league.

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05-12-2011, 01:10 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by hof2120 View Post
Jeff Carter: 47 GP, 13 G, 8 A, -14
Ryan Kesler: 36 GP, 8 G, 21, A, +7

I'll take Kesler in the playoffs over Carter.



I'm not sayng Kesler is a god in the playoffs based on his performance this round...I'm just saying I'd rather have their #17 than our #17.
that was not directed at you btw. I like Kelser. But he isnt a playoff performer.

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05-12-2011, 01:35 PM
  #50
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Remove this year's stats from Kesler and you see 3 whole goals and 11 assists since he entered the league.
14 points in 25 games isn't stellar but it's not absolutely pitiful. It's about the same career playoff PPG ratio that Carts has right now.

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that was not directed at you btw. I like Kelser. But he isnt a playoff performer.
Fair enough, my bad...but he may not have been in the past, but this year (or series at least) he is.

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