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Should the Rangers Sign Simon Gagne If They Sign Brad Richards?

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Old
05-09-2011, 05:49 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
No. Prospal and Gagne, both need to go. Sorry, but Vinny's knee is done. There's almost no way he recover from that serious of a knee injury this late in his career. He looked even slower than he already was down the stretch. I don't like him healthwise either.
Yet somehow, he was almost averaging a point per game. We don't make the playoffs if Vinny doesn't come back.

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05-09-2011, 05:56 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
you're looking at their current contracts. Fleishmann is going to get a fairly big pay raise, Gagne will be lucky to sniff anything higher than 2.5 mil.
I am looking at their current deals and the point is that one is obviously outscoring the other at a younger age. While the other has proven himself and is already making big money and is going to look to get it again. Gagne is going to use his reasons for getting big money to try to get big money again while Fleischmann has to try to justify his raise. IMO they're both going to get about the same and if they do, you go with the young stud who is up over the aging veteran on the decline. Flash is the superior option in every way!


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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
No. Prospal and Gagne, both need to go. Sorry, but Vinny's knee is done. There's almost no way he recover from that serious of a knee injury this late in his career. He looked even slower than he already was down the stretch. I don't like him healthwise either.
Vinny Prospal was one of our top scorers along with Callahan at the end of the season. Go check the stat sheets bud.

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05-09-2011, 06:09 PM
  #78
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Fleishmann, or any other second rate players that will command multi years and an overpayment are quite literally the last thing the Rangers should be looking into.

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05-09-2011, 06:15 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
There is a difference. He's Simon Gagne. He's North American. He's never had inconsistency issues. Injury issues.
Where he's from doesn't matter.

40 points in 58 and 63 games the 2 last seasons on a pretty good TB team is nothing to get excited about. Prospal's scoring rate was better and when you factor in that Prospal wasn't playing at full speed because of recovery from knee surgery, that bodes better for Prospal next year if he can strengthen the knee during the offseason.

Gagne's about as soft as a bag of eggs...one hit and he's down for the count for months, AND he's concussed as we speak of course, whether the Lightning release that fact or not.

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05-09-2011, 06:24 PM
  #80
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No to Gagne...his career has been unfortunate because of all the injuries he has endured but he's way too much of a gamble when it comes to that kind of stuff.

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05-09-2011, 06:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You only rebuild for so long before it's time to start making moves. You want to start signing free agents when Cally and Dubi are 30? They're entering their primes. Now is the time.
Totally agree you can't keep saying we need to wait a little longer...not every prospect is gonna pan out, so if they have some value you need to turn them into NHL players...I think everyone can agree that we have a pretty good core...time to make some noise

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05-09-2011, 06:37 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NHRangerfan View Post
Totally agree you can't keep saying we need to wait a little longer...not every prospect is gonna pan out, so if they have some value you need to turn them into NHL players...I think everyone can agree that we have a pretty good core...time to make some noise
No, we must hang onto every prospect we have, as they all will undoubtedly become surefire NHLers and solid contributors.

Also, I think the average roster age of 26 or so is a bit high. Perfect example of us needing to get younger.



It is time. We have the centerpiece (Hank) and the core, it is time to start making moves. Richards is hopefully the first of many.

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05-09-2011, 06:38 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I am looking at their current deals and the point is that one is obviously outscoring the other at a younger age. While the other has proven himself and is already making big money and is going to look to get it again. Gagne is going to use his reasons for getting big money to try to get big money again while Fleischmann has to try to justify his raise. IMO they're both going to get about the same and if they do, you go with the young stud who is up over the aging veteran on the decline. Flash is the superior option in every way!



Vinny Prospal was one of our top scorers along with Callahan at the end of the season. Go check the stat sheets bud.
Since the lockout, this hasn't been the case at all. Guys breaking out or on the verge of a breakout get the big bucks. Guys on the decline, especially ones with concussion issues, are lucky to get a contract. Sure, they get a respectful deal when they get it, but not top dollar and its always a cut in pay.

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05-09-2011, 07:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Fleishmann, or any other second rate players that will command multi years and an overpayment are quite literally the last thing the Rangers should be looking into.
This x1000.

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05-09-2011, 08:05 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You only rebuild for so long before it's time to start making moves. You want to start signing free agents when Cally and Dubi are 30? They're entering their primes. Now is the time.
There's a middle ground between extremes. Obviously I am not suggesting that we rebuild another 5 years. I think our greatest chance to succeed will come in about 2 years. I think so because I believe most of our biggest holes (offensive defenseman, first center and another offensive option) will get filled by MDZ, Stepan and either Kreider or Thomas.

I don't think all 3 of these holes will get filled, but I think 2 of these 3 options will turn out well. And then we can fill the remaining one through free agency or trade when we know what that hole will be.

But that's not what I wrote in this thread. You are citing from my previous discussions on other threads.

Here, I said that if the Rangers sign Brad, then they might as well go all out. Not sure I'm excited about Gagne, but whoever it is, they should add another offensive player in addition to Brad.

If they will go for the Stanley Cup right now, they should not do it half-hearted. Go all out. Do it like you mean it. When the team will actually be going for the Cup, I will be all in favor of youth-for-age trades. I just want to make sure the team does it at the right time so that we aren't just dealing away our youth for rentals, only to wind up with neither prospects nor a championship.


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05-09-2011, 08:36 PM
  #86
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The Rangers should NOT sign Prospal or Gagne. Both are not the answer.

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05-09-2011, 09:59 PM
  #87
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would not touch gagne!!

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05-10-2011, 01:53 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
If we land Richards, many here have proposed the idea of signing Simon Gagne to fill the first line left wing position. Gagne in his current expiring contract has a $5.25 million cap hit and is 31. He tallied just 17 goals this season, but has averaged a solid 23 goals over his 11 year career, twice cracking the 40 goal mark with 47 is 05'-06' and 41 in 06'-07'.

Gagne is clearly an offensively talented player, and with Richards I say he could net around thirty or so pretty confidently. We may be able to take advantage of his age and his less than average contract year and sign him for a little cheaper than his current cap hit. Thoughts?
I can see this happening if there is any cap room left after BR (unlikely) and it is only a 1-year deal (like Frolov), but I'm not sure it would be a good signing. We need YOUNG talented players. Gagne would just be a stopgap. I doubt he will be available as one, given he will probably get multi-year deals on the UFA market.

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05-10-2011, 05:48 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
I am looking at their current deals and the point is that one is obviously outscoring the other at a younger age. While the other has proven himself and is already making big money and is going to look to get it again. Gagne is going to use his reasons for getting big money to try to get big money again while Fleischmann has to try to justify his raise. IMO they're both going to get about the same and if they do, you go with the young stud who is up over the aging veteran on the decline. Flash is the superior option in every way!
Teams are much more willing to take a financial risk on a young player with no concussion history. And they will.

It's the same reason a guy like Fedotenko has to come and tryout for a team when if a younger player was just as good and had the same stats, same ability; they'd probably get at least a 1 year deal right off the bat.

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05-10-2011, 05:54 PM
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The talent pool for winger, especially left winger, is deep enough where Gagne's going to get overlooked if he outprices himself. Samsonov, J. Jokinen, Fleischmann, Prospal, Tanguay, Zherdev, Moreau, Dvorak, Dupious, Bergenheim, Frolov, Ponikarovsky, Kovalev, Stillman

Sure, a lot of those guys have the question marks as well. I don't doubt Gagne will get a contract, most likely one very similar to Frolov's. Maybe a team will give him 2 years even. You have to realize that the reward could be maybe he doesn't get another concussion and stays healthy and posts 30-30 numbers.

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05-10-2011, 10:57 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
The talent pool for winger, especially left winger, is deep enough where Gagne's going to get overlooked if he outprices himself. Samsonov, J. Jokinen, Fleischmann, Prospal, Tanguay, Zherdev, Moreau, Dvorak, Dupious, Bergenheim, Frolov, Ponikarovsky, Kovalev, Stillman

Sure, a lot of those guys have the question marks as well. I don't doubt Gagne will get a contract, most likely one very similar to Frolov's. Maybe a team will give him 2 years even. You have to realize that the reward could be maybe he doesn't get another concussion and stays healthy and posts 30-30 numbers.
I just don't see it though. Concussions are an injury that are known to get worse and more frequent the more they occur, and he's had his fair share. Not only that, he's only played one close to full season out of the last 4. Deck is stacked against those odds. At this point he's fragile and soft. A lot here are remembering what he once was, but you've got to look at what he is now. And that's a guy who will put up 35-40 points in 50 to 60 games, tops.

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05-10-2011, 11:03 PM
  #92
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We need something to improve the skill level on this team. However Gange might fit into the bad signing category if he suffers in 5 on 5 play. But its def worth a look. If Dvorak is avaiable i would much rather go after him if we were to sign Richards. Gaborik and Dvorak speed and Richards passing could cause and D trouble.

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05-10-2011, 11:08 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
There's a middle ground between extremes. Obviously I am not suggesting that we rebuild another 5 years. I think our greatest chance to succeed will come in about 2 years. I think so because I believe most of our biggest holes (offensive defenseman, first center and another offensive option) will get filled by MDZ, Stepan and either Kreider or Thomas.

I don't think all 3 of these holes will get filled, but I think 2 of these 3 options will turn out well. And then we can fill the remaining one through free agency or trade when we know what that hole will be.

But that's not what I wrote in this thread. You are citing from my previous discussions on other threads.

Here, I said that if the Rangers sign Brad, then they might as well go all out. Not sure I'm excited about Gagne, but whoever it is, they should add another offensive player in addition to Brad.

If they will go for the Stanley Cup right now, they should not do it half-hearted. Go all out. Do it like you mean it. When the team will actually be going for the Cup, I will be all in favor of youth-for-age trades. I just want to make sure the team does it at the right time so that we aren't just dealing away our youth for rentals, only to wind up with neither prospects nor a championship.
Dont forget Henrik is right in his prime and finding a replacement to a quality goalie like him will be next to impossible.

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05-10-2011, 11:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
The talent pool for winger, especially left winger, is deep enough where Gagne's going to get overlooked if he outprices himself. Samsonov, J. Jokinen, Fleischmann, Prospal, Tanguay, Zherdev, Moreau, Dvorak, Dupious, Bergenheim, Frolov, Ponikarovsky, Kovalev, Stillman

Sure, a lot of those guys have the question marks as well. I don't doubt Gagne will get a contract, most likely one very similar to Frolov's. Maybe a team will give him 2 years even. You have to realize that the reward could be maybe he doesn't get another concussion and stays healthy and posts 30-30 numbers.
go check the before the storm thread. i had a plan try to sign them. another guy who i like is Upshall who is an UFA.

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05-10-2011, 11:18 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
There's a middle ground between extremes. Obviously I am not suggesting that we rebuild another 5 years. I think our greatest chance to succeed will come in about 2 years. I think so because I believe most of our biggest holes (offensive defenseman, first center and another offensive option) will get filled by MDZ, Stepan and either Kreider or Thomas.

I don't think all 3 of these holes will get filled, but I think 2 of these 3 options will turn out well. And then we can fill the remaining one through free agency or trade when we know what that hole will be.

But that's not what I wrote in this thread. You are citing from my previous discussions on other threads.

Here, I said that if the Rangers sign Brad, then they might as well go all out. Not sure I'm excited about Gagne, but whoever it is, they should add another offensive player in addition to Brad.

If they will go for the Stanley Cup right now, they should not do it half-hearted. Go all out. Do it like you mean it. When the team will actually be going for the Cup, I will be all in favor of youth-for-age trades. I just want to make sure the team does it at the right time so that we aren't just dealing away our youth for rentals, only to wind up with neither prospects nor a championship.
I agree that if we get Richards it's time to go all-out. There's no sense in waiting. And say we do sign Richards to something like $8mil/year...that probably means at least Drury was bought out if not Wolski. In 2 years, those cap penalties are gone and completely off the books. Frolov is off the books now. Boogaard is bound to be off the books sooner than later. Avery is $2mil more in relief. We'll have some money to lock Dubi and Cally up long term. Staal and Girardi are already signed fairly long term. Hank is signed through 13-14. You may also see a guy like Stepan outperforming his contract as early as next season, when he's on his ELC until 13-14. That's immediate savings.

Gaborik and Richards provide primary scoring and a legitimate first line, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, MZA secondary scoring. Then you need to bolster your powerplay and find players that perform when it counts. Gagne is that. Ask flyers fans. If it's not Gagne, then I really think we need to make a trade. Should we land Richards, our biggest and possibly only hole TRULY holding us back from contending is the lack of a PP QB.

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05-10-2011, 11:21 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
go check the before the storm thread. i had a plan try to sign them. another guy who i like is Upshall who is an UFA.
But why would you want to sign them? These are guys that are looking to get locked in for 3 or 4 years. That doesn't fit into our plan considering Anisimov, Dubinsky, Callahan, MZA, and maybe Kreider and/or Thomas are most likely all guys I'd like to see dawning a Rangers sweater for years to come.

The most attractive aspect to signing Gagne is that you can roll the dice and if it works out, you get good offensive production and secondary scoring at a discount rate for 1 or 2 years.

I understand that people are like "Great, another Frolov" but what harm did signing Frolov really do? Oh, that's right, not much harm at all. It's n ot as if he was detrimental to the team, he just couldn't score.

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05-10-2011, 11:24 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
I just don't see it though. Concussions are an injury that are known to get worse and more frequent the more they occur, and he's had his fair share. Not only that, he's only played one close to full season out of the last 4. Deck is stacked against those odds. At this point he's fragile and soft. A lot here are remembering what he once was, but you've got to look at what he is now. And that's a guy who will put up 35-40 points in 50 to 60 games, tops.
I also see a guy that's going to produce when we get to the playoffs. This year, two years ago. Guys couldn't score when it mattered. Gagne is that guy, and I have no doubt he still is. They've been in bunches, but 7 points in 8 games. And when TB has ran away with a game, Gagne's been the one of the stars. If they make it to the finals I bet he has a good series.

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05-10-2011, 11:25 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satrabyk View Post
We need something to improve the skill level on this team. However Gange might fit into the bad signing category if he suffers in 5 on 5 play. But its def worth a look. If Dvorak is avaiable i would much rather go after him if we were to sign Richards. Gaborik and Dvorak speed and Richards passing could cause and D trouble.
Doesn't Dvorak play RW though?

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05-10-2011, 11:25 PM
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Given how bad our luck has been with aging finesse players in the past such as Markus Naslund most recently, and other players of this type, I don't think its worth it to take a risk and use that much cap room on a guy like Gagne despite him being a solid plyer throughout his career. I think his best years are behind him, and going forward I would rather give some of our kids a shot than go back to the old Rangers methods of signing aged superstars that eat away at salary cap and underperform.

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05-10-2011, 11:25 PM
  #100
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Dont forget Henrik is right in his prime and finding a replacement to a quality goalie like him will be next to impossible.
Henrik is a goalie. For a goalie, 29 years old is still young. Barring a freak injury, he'll be around at a minimum another half a dozen years and probably another full decade.

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