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Old
05-06-2011, 02:57 PM
  #51
luongo321
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I really hope your owner will spend to the cap next season. You guys have a really solid team with incredible coaching. If you could pick up a gamebreaker (easier said than done), your team would be lethal.

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05-06-2011, 03:29 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
I read over on the main boards that the Predators spend more on forwards than the Canucks do.

This is totally shocking to me. WTF?
I guess this is true when you factor in Dumont's 4+ on the bench, Lombardi's 3.5 (not played since game 2), and Sullivan's overpriced 3.75.

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05-06-2011, 03:43 PM
  #53
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Erat, Legwand, Sully, Fish and Horny are all making more than I think their FMV is, and with Dumont and Lombardi... well, might as well have tossed a briefcase filled with $8 million dollars into a fire. I wouldn't be surprised if they overpay for SK should they retain him, although I hope his terrible playoff performance brings his value back down in the eyes of management.

We've been lucky that our last few goalies have been unproven and signed for beans yet perform like elite goaltenders. Don't know how long we can keep that up for, though.

Anyway, if we're this bad financially managing forwards BEFORE Weber/Suter/Rinne/Whoever else steps up get their big raises, I cringe to think how it'll be in the near future. Maybe we can dump, er, trade Dumont for some future considerations... cough.

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05-10-2011, 12:57 AM
  #54
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Maybe too early to start talking about this but I'm trying to distract myself from the depression that comes with no Predators hockey for 5 months...

Do you guys think we will always have an "internal cap" at the midpoint? If so, how are we ever gonna afford to ice a team that can be a true Cup contender? If not, when do you think we'll deem our chunk of revenue sharing money unnecessary and spend a little more?

I keep hearing fans of other teams talk about how dangerous we could be if we could pick up someone like Brad Richards (and how he might be interested in coming here), and I long for the ability to do it...but I don't know if it'll ever happen.

Thoughts?

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05-10-2011, 01:14 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
Maybe too early to start talking about this but I'm trying to distract myself from the depression that comes with no Predators hockey for 5 months...

Do you guys think we will always have an "internal cap" at the midpoint? If so, how are we ever gonna afford to ice a team that can be a true Cup contender? If not, when do you think we'll deem our chunk of revenue sharing money unnecessary and spend a little more?

I keep hearing fans of other teams talk about how dangerous we could be if we could pick up someone like Brad Richards (and how he might be interested in coming here), and I long for the ability to do it...but I don't know if it'll ever happen.

Thoughts?
As long as we are able to meet the requirements for revenue sharing, we will try to get it. I don't know the details, but at some point we will no longer qualify I think.

But until we average ~16K paid attendance, better TV contract, etc., we aren't getting off of revenue sharing. So no, not forever, but not in the immediate future either.

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05-10-2011, 02:07 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
As long as we are able to meet the requirements for revenue sharing, we will try to get it. I don't know the details, but at some point we will no longer qualify I think.

But until we average ~16K paid attendance, better TV contract, etc., we aren't getting off of revenue sharing. So no, not forever, but not in the immediate future either.
Old thread where handtrick posts some deets about revenue sharing requirements:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=162356


WTF I hate math. I don't even understand what all that shiz means. Can an accountant/business guy come in and boil it down for the rest of us?!

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Old
05-10-2011, 05:34 PM
  #57
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working on updating this.. what picks did we lose for fisher?

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Old
05-10-2011, 06:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Trade Legwand View Post
working on updating this.. what picks did we lose for fisher?
1st and a 3rd

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Old
05-10-2011, 06:37 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I guess this is true when you factor in Dumont's 4+ on the bench, Lombardi's 3.5 (not played since game 2), and Sullivan's overpriced 3.75.
and we still have to eat dumont and lombardi salary next year..

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05-10-2011, 06:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
1st and a 3rd
Just to clarify the 3rd is in 2012

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05-10-2011, 06:41 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
and we still have to eat dumont and lombardi salary next year..
Unless Poile can package these guys to another team. Sully is gone. Dumont can become a 1,333,333 buyout. Lombardi. Who knows. If he comes back great. if not. I think Nashville is going to have to package him and Wilson to a capmax team for a 3 million salary dump.

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($6.000m) / Matthew Lombardi ($3.500m) / Sergei Kostitsyn ($1.750m)
Colin Wilson ($0.875m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($3.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.350m) / Mike Fisher ($4.000m) / Joel Ward ($1.750m)
Nick Spaling ($0.800m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.800m)
/ Cal O'Reilly ($0.750m) / Dumont buyout ($1.333m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($3.500m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Kevin Klein ($1.350m) / Jonathon Blum ($0.787m)
Cody Franson ($0.800m) / Francis Bouillon ($1.200m)
Teemu Laakso ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($4.000m) / Anders Lindback ($0.737m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $54,200,000; CASH PAYROLL: $51,183,333; BONUSES: $1,112,500
CASH SPACE (22-man roster): $3,016,667

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05-10-2011, 06:56 PM
  #62
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ok, so i obviously don't know how buyouts work...

explain please.


i automatically thought, wrongly apparently, that a buyout meant we would pay him his whole salary that was owed to him.

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Old
05-10-2011, 07:02 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
ok, so i obviously don't know how buyouts work...

explain please.


i automatically thought, wrongly apparently, that a buyout meant we would pay him his whole salary that was owed to him.
Not sure, per capgeek.com

Dumont's cap hit would be

11-12: 1,333,333
12-13: 1,333,333

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Old
05-10-2011, 07:08 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
ok, so i obviously don't know how buyouts work...

explain please.


i automatically thought, wrongly apparently, that a buyout meant we would pay him his whole salary that was owed to him.
Sometimes it's complicated, but Dumont's case is simple.

His cap hit is $4M with 1 year left

2/3's of $4M = 2.6666

Spread that out over double the remaining years left gives us 1.3333 over 2 years

There's a good explanation on capgeek in their faqs

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05-10-2011, 07:10 PM
  #65
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I wonder if any teams would be willing to buy Dumont out in exchange for a salary dump or picks/prospects? Kind of like last year when Edm traded O'Sullivan to Phoenix for Vandermeer, then Phoenix immediately bought O'S out.

I still feel pretty confident that we'll find a taker for Dumont. I really think he could excel under the right situation.

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05-10-2011, 07:25 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
Maybe too early to start talking about this but I'm trying to distract myself from the depression that comes with no Predators hockey for 5 months...

Do you guys think we will always have an "internal cap" at the midpoint? If so, how are we ever gonna afford to ice a team that can be a true Cup contender? If not, when do you think we'll deem our chunk of revenue sharing money unnecessary and spend a little more?

I keep hearing fans of other teams talk about how dangerous we could be if we could pick up someone like Brad Richards (and how he might be interested in coming here), and I long for the ability to do it...but I don't know if it'll ever happen.

Thoughts?
It isn't revenue sharing we should be looking at. It's FULL revenue sharing.

The way I understand it, there are two tiers of revenue sharing. One dependent on your attendance and one dependent on your salary being below the cap midpoint (since its entire purpose is to aid teams in getting to the cap midpoint). We will always get the first tier so long as attendance continues to be good (and I don't believe there is a cap, so even if we begin to sell out every night we're ok in that regard.) It's the second tier that is interesting. At some point management is going to realize that the extra money they receive from being a midpoint team isn't worth the backlash from the fan base over not spending close to the cap. I don't see this scenario happening any time soon, but with a couple of seasons of similar attendance growth and being able to raise ticket prices without seeing a dent in attendance it's definitely possible in the future.

I'm also under the impression that some revenue from non-hockey events goes to the Preds management, too, so that's something else to factor in when trying to determine when we'll be able to stop relying on full revenue sharing, if ever.

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Old
05-11-2011, 07:41 AM
  #67
triggrman
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To be honest. I can't remember the last time this team said they could only spend to the midpoint.. Also, just because you go over them mid point doesn't mean all the money is gone, it just reduces the amount. I don't know if it's dollar for dollar or just drops a percentage for every dollar over the mid point. So if going 3 million over the mid point cost you 3 million in rs but you gain 6 million in ticket revenue, then the extra 3 mil is worth it.

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05-11-2011, 08:50 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
It isn't revenue sharing we should be looking at. It's FULL revenue sharing.

The way I understand it, there are two tiers of revenue sharing. One dependent on your attendance and one dependent on your salary being below the cap midpoint (since its entire purpose is to aid teams in getting to the cap midpoint). We will always get the first tier so long as attendance continues to be good (and I don't believe there is a cap, so even if we begin to sell out every night we're ok in that regard.) It's the second tier that is interesting. At some point management is going to realize that the extra money they receive from being a midpoint team isn't worth the backlash from the fan base over not spending close to the cap. I don't see this scenario happening any time soon, but with a couple of seasons of similar attendance growth and being able to raise ticket prices without seeing a dent in attendance it's definitely possible in the future.

I'm also under the impression that some revenue from non-hockey events goes to the Preds management, too, so that's something else to factor in when trying to determine when we'll be able to stop relying on full revenue sharing, if ever.
Interesting take. All we usually hear about in the newspaper (terrible source I know) is $10 million for revenue sharing, but the link earlier does talk about 2 tiers. I don't understand how much of that $10 million is one tier and how much is the other, but it'd be good to figure out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
To be honest. I can't remember the last time this team said they could only spend to the midpoint.. Also, just because you go over them mid point doesn't mean all the money is gone, it just reduces the amount. I don't know if it's dollar for dollar or just drops a percentage for every dollar over the mid point. So if going 3 million over the mid point cost you 3 million in rs but you gain 6 million in ticket revenue, then the extra 3 mil is worth it.
This is interesting too. Now that I think about it I don't think I've ever even heard these owners talk publicly about staying below the midpoint. It used to be all we ever heard about, but I can't remember the last time this was said. I'd be interested to know what the owners' attitudes are about spending now.

Is there any fantasy scenario under which we could get Brad Richards?

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Old
05-11-2011, 08:59 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by AEM6729 View Post
Interesting take. All we usually hear about in the newspaper (terrible source I know) is $10 million for revenue sharing, but the link earlier does talk about 2 tiers. I don't understand how much of that $10 million is one tier and how much is the other, but it'd be good to figure out.



This is interesting too. Now that I think about it I don't think I've ever even heard these owners talk publicly about staying below the midpoint. It used to be all we ever heard about, but I can't remember the last time this was said. I'd be interested to know what the owners' attitudes are about spending now.

Is there any fantasy scenario under which we could get Brad Richards?
If we can unload Dumont then yes.

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Old
05-11-2011, 09:42 AM
  #70
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I was thinking about Brad Richards last night and people were asking about how it would be possible to get him. He's a possiblity if Poile were to manage to do this, it would rank right up with the miracle of moving Arnott.

Trade Wilson, Dumont, and Lombardi to Philly with picks. Philly sends back Versteeg. Philly then LTIRs Lombardi and buyout Dumont. They get Wilson basically at 2.2 million dollars, picks, and 800k of cap space. This is IF Lombardi is done and Dumont is willing to come back to Nashville at a lower cash numbera and waive the NTC. Insane? Yup, but that's ok that's what my shrink says is my specialty.



CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($6.000m) / Brad Richards ($8.000m) / Sergei Kostitsyn ($1.500m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($3.000m)
J.P. Dumont ($0.600m) / Mike Fisher ($4.000m) / Joel Ward ($1.500m)
Nick Spaling ($0.800m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.800m)
/ Marcel Goc ($1.250m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.350m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($3.500m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.200m) / Kevin Klein ($1.350m)
Teemu Laakso ($0.650m) / Cody Franson ($0.800m)
Jonathon Blum ($0.787m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($4.000m) / Anders Lindback ($0.737m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,208,333; BONUSES: $262,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,991,667

Please tell me where my math is wrong?


Last edited by BigFatCat999: 05-11-2011 at 09:48 AM.
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Old
05-11-2011, 09:59 AM
  #71
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BFC, not withstanding if your math is wrong or right but why are we giving up on Wilson so soon? Not a smart idea in my book. Finding a team willing to take on Dumont is one thing but that money is allotted to re-sign Suter and Rinne and as good as Richards is, he's not worth that type of money. I'd rather keep Weber, Suter and Rinne than to have Weber, Richards and one of Suter and Rinne.

You're also assuming SK and Ward re-sign with us for those numbers.

Big thing is knowing what is up with Lombardi and Bouillon. If they're done, put them on LTIR and go from there. It can be done if we're creative but I don't see throwing that much money at Richards as the answer. We need snipers, not another play maker type up front.

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05-11-2011, 10:10 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
BFC, not withstanding if your math is wrong or right but why are we giving up on Wilson so soon? Not a smart idea in my book. Finding a team willing to take on Dumont is one thing but that money is allotted to re-sign Suter and Rinne and as good as Richards is, he's not worth that type of money. I'd rather keep Weber, Suter and Rinne than to have Weber, Richards and one of Suter and Rinne.

You're also assuming SK and Ward re-sign with us for those numbers.

Big thing is knowing what is up with Lombardi and Bouillon. If they're done, put them on LTIR and go from there. It can be done if we're creative but I don't see throwing that much money at Richards as the answer. We need snipers, not another play maker type up front.
LTIR does not help the Predators. LTIR only can help teams who are cap max. LTIR removes the cap value of a player not the cash spent on the player. Also once a player is on LTIR they can not be traded to another team, they are anchored to the Predators.

My buyout knowledge is fuzzy but I BELIEVE, don't quote me, that when a team buys out a player that player can not return to the team who bought him out. I'm researching on this. IF, Dumont wants to keep playing in Nashville and the prior is true, he would have to agree to a team and then be bought out from them and then re-sign with Nashville. The Dumont Family likes Nashville. Why not give Dumont a carrot to lower his salary to not move his team from Nashville?

If Lombardi is done Wilson and picks would be the carrot for a cap max team to take the deal and remove 3.5 m in cash from the Preds. I'm not giving up on Wilson. I'm realizing that I'm trying to make a move to give Nashville the cash flexibility they need to make moves, they will have to part with Wilson and deal from a position of strength. Nashville was the youngest team in the playoffs. They should try and trade for GOOD experience. Yes, they could have a center line of O'Reilly/Fisher/Dumont/Smithson. but with a Versteeg deal they are getting a 20 goal scorer and a strong center. Nashville is losing a lot of age with Sully going, Dumont, next to go, Lombardi possibly done. Nashville can afford to make a deal for veteran players who can help with the scoring.

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05-11-2011, 10:12 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
BFC, not withstanding if your math is wrong or right but why are we giving up on Wilson so soon? Not a smart idea in my book. Finding a team willing to take on Dumont is one thing but that money is allotted to re-sign Suter and Rinne and as good as Richards is, he's not worth that type of money. I'd rather keep Weber, Suter and Rinne than to have Weber, Richards and one of Suter and Rinne.

You're also assuming SK and Ward re-sign with us for those numbers.

Big thing is knowing what is up with Lombardi and Bouillon. If they're done, put them on LTIR and go from there. It can be done if we're creative but I don't see throwing that much money at Richards as the answer. We need snipers, not another play maker type up front.
it's kind of perfect ... ward had an awful season & sk had a horrible playoffs

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05-11-2011, 10:23 AM
  #74
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And either way, I got my answer. This would be cap circumvention.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=27107328&postcount=2

Which could be interesting since Nashville would not be circumventing the 'cap' but the salary.

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05-11-2011, 10:25 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I was thinking about Brad Richards last night and people were asking about how it would be possible to get him. He's a possiblity if Poile were to manage to do this, it would rank right up with the miracle of moving Arnott.

Trade Wilson, Dumont, and Lombardi to Philly with picks. Philly sends back Versteeg. Philly then LTIRs Lombardi and buyout Dumont. They get Wilson basically at 2.2 million dollars, picks, and 800k of cap space. This is IF Lombardi is done and Dumont is willing to come back to Nashville at a lower cash numbera and waive the NTC. Insane? Yup, but that's ok that's what my shrink says is my specialty.



CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Martin Erat ($6.000m) / Brad Richards ($8.000m) / Sergei Kostitsyn ($1.500m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($3.000m)
J.P. Dumont ($0.600m) / Mike Fisher ($4.000m) / Joel Ward ($1.500m)
Nick Spaling ($0.800m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.800m)
/ Marcel Goc ($1.250m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.350m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($3.500m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.200m) / Kevin Klein ($1.350m)
Teemu Laakso ($0.650m) / Cody Franson ($0.800m)
Jonathon Blum ($0.787m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($4.000m) / Anders Lindback ($0.737m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $57,208,333; BONUSES: $262,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,991,667

Please tell me where my math is wrong?
Neither Richards no Weber will get such money here. IMO

It is not much options out there this off season, so I think Ward is gone.

SK will get no less then 1.75m
I'd rather keep O'B and package Lombardi and Bully to Phily.
O'R will get another chance here, we will keep Goc.
Buy Dumont out...
Try to move Erat.


Also, what about all our minor league FAs? Who are you willing to keep? Who can contribute?

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