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If You Had to Choose?

View Poll Results: Who is should be held accountable?
Fire the Coach, he is a bum who overworked the crew. 1 1.92%
Send a message, do not resign Leino, move one of Carter or Richards or Hartnell. 21 40.38%
Strip the C off Richards, and move Carter or Hartnell. 13 25.00%
Do nothing, everything is fine, just let them talk it out. 13 25.00%
Fire the Coach and GM, the core needs to stay intact. 4 7.69%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-11-2011, 09:48 AM
  #101
Garbage Goal
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Kind of ridiculous poll options. Ideally I'd like to shed a guy like Carle and/or Versteeg and sign Bryzgalov or Vokoun and leave the rest of the team relatively intact. In reality, we'll probably go into next season with an extremely similar team and still no safe solution in net which is probably the second best thing to do.

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05-11-2011, 09:51 AM
  #102
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Are you kidding me?

I'm shocked that so many are still routing for the 'Do nothing, everything is fine...' option!

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05-11-2011, 09:51 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What, that I do not see the player that you see? Maybe we just have different views on what our expectations for the palyers are amd what we see them do. We all know Carter does not hit, does not play physical, and when the games get tight disappears. That is proven with the eye test and the facts on the stat sheet everyone wants to refer to.
You don't need to see him, there is empirical data saying that you are full of ****.

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05-11-2011, 09:52 AM
  #104
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I'm shocked that so many are still routing for the 'Do nothing, everything is fine...' option!
Really? The other options are largely moronic in how they are phrased.

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05-11-2011, 09:53 AM
  #105
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Really? The other options are largely moronic in how they are phrased.
Pretty much. I didn't even vote myself.

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05-11-2011, 09:58 AM
  #106
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Really? The other options are largely moronic in how they are phrased.
I agree that there should be a 'Trade someone else' or 'None of the above' option in the poll.
But the whole 'we are fine and can work through it mentality' is what hurt the team big time after the ASG and should be the least viable option imho.

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05-11-2011, 10:06 AM
  #107
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I agree that there should be a 'Trade someone else' or 'None of the above' option in the poll.
But the whole 'we are fine and can work through it mentality' is what hurt the team big time after the ASG and should be the least viable option imho.
I didn't vote, but of those options... that's the one I would pick.

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05-11-2011, 10:29 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Defense is a team game, look at the HBL line as a prime example. Briere is a horrible defensive center, but when the line clicks and plays as a unit they are pretty good at both ends of the ice.
This may be the most absurd thing you've ever posted. The Briere line as a whole is horrendous defensively. They are continually caught in their own end, unable to clear the zone and unable to interrupt a cycle by the other team.

I like the chemistry they have had, but defensively they're are the weakest group the Flyers have.

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05-11-2011, 10:39 AM
  #109
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This may be the most absurd thing you've ever posted. The Briere line as a whole is horrendous defensively. They are continually caught in their own end, unable to clear the zone and unable to interrupt a cycle by the other team.

I like the chemistry they have had, but defensively they're are the weakest group the Flyers have.
Why do I feel like Handzus would make the line better . I miss Zus...

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05-11-2011, 11:57 AM
  #110
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Jeff Carter in relation to the rest of the team:

Goals: 1st
Assists: 7th
Points: 3rd
+/-: 3rd
PPG: 2nd
GWG: 1st (but...he's not clutch!)
Even Strength Goals: 1st
Average goals per game: 1st
Shots: 1st
Faceoff %: 1st (for people who took a real number of faceoffs)
Blocked Shots: 5th amongst forwards, 1st among "non-PK" FW (but he has no heart!)
Takeaways: 4th
TOI: 3rd amongst FW

But the team can just trade him away, and magically fill those holes, right? Surely, the young goalie and prospects Carter returns will make all right! The team will never miss him!



I have a better idea: dispose of the dead weight (Shelley, Leighton, Walker, Carcillo, etc.) and sign a goalie. Keep Carter. Team fixes problem, doesn't get worse overall.

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05-11-2011, 12:11 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You don't need to see him, there is empirical data saying that you are full of ****.
Your opinion, but it is only a matter of time before this continues to be the same conversation again next season, and only time until I can simply say..."I told you so".

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05-11-2011, 12:13 PM
  #112
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Your opinion, but it is only a matter of time before this continues to be the same conversation again next season, and only time until I can simply say..."I told you so".
Told us what? You have yet to be correct.

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05-11-2011, 12:15 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
SO, hold here. Guy is the King Of Sea Isle, golden boy in Philly. Leading goals scorer who everyone slobbers over, but yet a 10 year contract for the next coming is a "unfriendly contract" for trading??????? So is it the player who is overrated or the contract?
A) People don't trade assets for a contract that long, in case the guy gets injured.

B) Maybe it's just me, but trading Carter this offseason would be a PR nightmare and players might think twice before signing/resigning here. Why commit to an organization that makes a show of committing to you and then jettisons you to the other side of the country?

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05-11-2011, 12:18 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Your opinion, but it is only a matter of time before this continues to be the same conversation again next season, and only time until I can simply say..."I told you so".
if that makes you feel better then good for you.

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05-11-2011, 12:22 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
This may be the most absurd thing you've ever posted. The Briere line as a whole is horrendous defensively. They are continually caught in their own end, unable to clear the zone and unable to interrupt a cycle by the other team.

I like the chemistry they have had, but defensively they're are the weakest group the Flyers have.
I bet you were not saying the same thing during last seasons playoffs when they were continuously playing in the opponents end.

So let's look at the facts, I do not like +/- too much but it does apply when looking at this line I do believe:

2010-11 Reg Season:
Briere- 34 goals/34assist/68pts/+20...........28 goals at even strength
Leino- 19 goals/34assists/53pts/+14..........14 goals at even strength
Hartnell- 24 goals/25assts/49pts/+14........20 goals at even strength
Total- 77 goals/ 93assts/170pts/ +48 .....so 62 of the 77 are scored at even strength.


So while you may think they are horrible because that is what each individual piece would tell you, as a unit they are actually a pretty proficient line.

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05-11-2011, 12:24 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
if that makes you feel better then good for you.
No, but I would rather not have people looking around to find the solution and wondering why the Flyers as an organization did not win the trophy again this year. I would prefer to see all of us in June having a beer on Broad St cheering and enjoying the moment with family in friends. I would prefer to not get the same result every year and look at this roster and see a solution but everyone is too naive to think that players in this roster are so untouchable.

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05-11-2011, 12:29 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I bet you were not saying the same thing during last seasons playoffs when they were continuously playing in the opponents end.

So let's look at the facts, I do not like +/- too much but it does apply when looking at this line I do believe:

2010-11 Reg Season:
Briere- 34 goals/34assist/68pts/+20...........28 goals at even strength
Leino- 19 goals/34assists/53pts/+14..........14 goals at even strength
Hartnell- 24 goals/25assts/49pts/+14........20 goals at even strength
Total- 77 goals/ 93assts/170pts/ +48 .....so 62 of the 77 are scored at even strength.


So while you may think they are horrible because that is what each individual piece would tell you, as a unit they are actually a pretty proficient line.
They are fine in the offensive zone controlling the puck when the line is clicking, and they're a lot of fun to watch.

However, when they're in the defensive zone or when the line is struggling, they're one step above a trainwreck defensively. Briere has always been a defensive liability whose offense more than makes up for it. Leino isn't a whole lot better defensively, and Hartnell runs hot and cold.

Let me put it this way. If the Flyers are defending a 1 goal lead, with 1.5 minutes to go in the game, and a faceoff in the defensive zone, which line would you put out there?

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05-11-2011, 12:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Jeff Carter in relation to the rest of the team:

Goals: 1st
Assists: 7th
Points: 3rd
+/-: 3rd
PPG: 2nd
GWG: 1st (but...he's not clutch!)
Even Strength Goals: 1st
Average goals per game: 1st
Shots: 1st
Faceoff %: 1st (for people who took a real number of faceoffs)
Blocked Shots: 5th amongst forwards, 1st among "non-PK" FW (but he has no heart!)
Takeaways: 4th
TOI: 3rd amongst FW

But the team can just trade him away, and magically fill those holes, right? Surely, the young goalie and prospects Carter returns will make all right! The team will never miss him!



I have a better idea: dispose of the dead weight (Shelley, Leighton, Walker, Carcillo, etc.) and sign a goalie. Keep Carter. Team fixes problem, doesn't get worse overall.


The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Do not get caught in the idea that one player is greater than the whole. The Bruins did fine without Kessel. They replaced him with guys who care and work hard every shift, battle for the loose pucks, develop a game.

Not just skate the puck down the ice, drive wide, take bad angle shot, watch puck skate out going the other way.

Or, skate in on forecheck, see d-man with puck, skate towards him and as he goes to pass puck peel off and avoid hit.

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05-11-2011, 12:32 PM
  #119
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I'm surprised anyone takes Cartsiephan seriously anymore. At least in regards to Carter.

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05-11-2011, 12:34 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Do not get caught in the idea that one player is greater than the whole. The Bruins did fine without Kessel. They replaced him with guys who care and work hard every shift, battle for the loose pucks, develop a game.

Not just skate the puck down the ice, drive wide, take bad angle shot, watch puck skate out going the other way.

Or, skate in on forecheck, see d-man with puck, skate towards him and as he goes to pass puck peel off and avoid hit.
You love making unsubstantiated and incorrect claims, don't you? We get it. You hate Carter. You want him off the team, at all costs.


When you first arrived, you were more aggressive about it. When several other posters demolished your claims with statistics and balanced arguments, you switched to the more subtle argument of "well...if he's so good, that means we can get a lot for him!" Either way, it's clear you have some strange vendetta and want him off the team no matter what, despite what common sense, statistics, and reasoned consideration of Carter's strengths and weaknesses says.

Or you're trolling. One of the two.

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05-11-2011, 12:37 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
No, but I would rather not have people looking around to find the solution and wondering why the Flyers as an organization did not win the trophy again this year. I would prefer to see all of us in June having a beer on Broad St cheering and enjoying the moment with family in friends. I would prefer to not get the same result every year and look at this roster and see a solution but everyone is too naive to think that players in this roster are so untouchable.
The Flyers not winning the Cup had little to do with who should be the Captian of the Flyers or how little you think of Jeff Carter.
you see a solution, but is it a viable one? its easy to play fantasy GM and say I would trade Carter for this and this or Richards for so and so.
I think we are fine down the middle. We have issues in other areas. Our role players arent good enough. We have a couple of defenseman who need to go in Carle and OD. Of course there is that goaltending thing.
i would love to find a couple of wingers who are a pain in the ass to play against but are disciplined. I am tired of the stupid hockey players this organization tends to employ.

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05-11-2011, 12:38 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
What, that I do not see the player that you see? Maybe we just have different views on what our expectations for the palyers are amd what we see them do. We all know Carter does not hit, does not play physical, and when the games get tight disappears. That is proven with the eye test and the facts on the stat sheet everyone wants to refer to.
Actually someone pointed out that he had 65 hits last year which is pretty good for a guy who is a goal scorer.

Also, I'm disappointed that you took down your avatar. What's next, a name change? Can you change it to CartsieHater so it makes more sense?

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05-11-2011, 12:39 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Your opinion, but it is only a matter of time before this continues to be the same conversation again next season, and only time until I can simply say..."I told you so".
You realize that empirical data is not a matter of opinion, right?

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05-11-2011, 12:40 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
[B]B]

Do not get caught in the idea that one player is greater than the whole. The Bruins did fine without Kessel. They replaced him with guys who care and work hard every shift, battle for the loose pucks, develop a game.

.
really dude? Kessel is not that good. He doesnt do any of those things you mention. he is a goal scorer. period. I hope you are not trying to compare Kessel to Carter because that is laughable.

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05-11-2011, 12:41 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Do not get caught in the idea that one player is greater than the whole. The Bruins did fine without Kessel. They replaced him with guys who care and work hard every shift, battle for the loose pucks, develop a game.

Not just skate the puck down the ice, drive wide, take bad angle shot, watch puck skate out going the other way.

Or, skate in on forecheck, see d-man with puck, skate towards him and as he goes to pass puck peel off and avoid hit.
The bruins had the worst offensive team in the league after they dealt Kessel! They had to go make deals last summer to correct the hole left by that deal.

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