HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Official Nashville Predators 2011 Off-Season Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-10-2011, 11:04 PM
  #76
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoveTheTeamAlready View Post
Hartnell and Trotz are like matter and anti-matter...If hartness is traded back to NSH, I can easily see Trotz sitting Hartnell right next to Dumont in the pressbox all year.
Based on what? When did Trotz ever scratch Hartnell? He called him out for some bad penalties, but the Trotz\Hartnell relationship was overblown not even by the media, but by messageboard dummies such as ourselves.

Legwand has been called out far, far worse than Hartnell ever was.

__________________
www.thepredatorial.com

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
05-10-2011, 11:19 PM
  #77
tserberis*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,597
vCash: 500
Floor would be 62.2M if they raise. ( And dew to all prices raise they should).

Per NY Post.

tserberis* is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 12:59 AM
  #78
tserberis*
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,597
vCash: 500
We should work out some deal with Flyers around Carter or Giurox. They desperate for money and we can dump Lombardi there for LTIR purpose.

Hartnell has NTC

tserberis* is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 07:40 AM
  #79
Pentothal
Listen with one ear
 
Pentothal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: It's not even close
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
I wouldn't count on it with Josi and Ellis in the system, but stranger things have happened. Maybe he'll blow away competition in camp ala Lindback.
If this kid was a prospect of the Leafs his name would be all over this site, but now you don't hear any hype whatsoever. Probably since you have so many young talented d-men coming through.

I guess you could trade him but a guy like that probably won't fetch a great return before proving himself in the NHL. I think he could become a good top 4 defenseman who can play in all situations.

Pentothal is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 07:51 AM
  #80
worstfaceoffmanever
These Snacks Are Odd
 
worstfaceoffmanever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,462
vCash: 500
There are entirely too many variables to start talking about moves right now. We have to get Weber signed and get the Dumont situation resolved, and those each have a radical series of possible outcomes.

My personal preference would be simply to hold on to what we have, unless a package containing Wilson and Franson brings back something we just can't turn down. That said, I do think we'll make a big* acquisition shortly after the Finals conclude.


*By "big," I mean, "big in Europe with little or no NHL experience."

worstfaceoffmanever is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 09:37 AM
  #81
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Wilson has a long future with the Predators, Trotz is just doing his young guy thing with him for now.
This "young guy thing" you mention worries me. As has been discussed previously, the Predators have a history of players who showed promise very early on and then progressed only slightly offensively, if at all. The Preds have had 6 players show early promise (excluding Radulov and Hornqvist for reasons that will be obvious) and then had little offensive development after age 22.

Hartnell, Arkhipov, Erat, Legwand and Upshall all had seasons at age 22 or younger where they scored at a 0.5ppg pace or better. Adam Hall scored 16 goals in 79 games as a 22 year old. These years represent better statistical years than their career averages in all instances except Erat, whose career average is almost identical to his age 22 performance.

What's even more stunning is that in all but Hartnell's case, this young breakout year occured at age 22 (give or take a few months). Most of these players are close to 30 now and have struggled to ever match that performance, which, sadly, was in the heart of the dead puck era for all except Upshall. A strong argument could be made for most that this was their best or second best statistical season.

Guess what age Hornqvist was in his breakout year?

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 09:59 AM
  #82
DEVILS ALL THE WAY*
Yes, I'm a hypocrite
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,477
vCash: 500
Devils fans coming in peace.

First off, congrats and your solid run. Secondly, what are the odds that management will sign both Weber and Suter to a LTC's, eating close to 14M$ in cap space for two blueliners.

It's been discussed on the main board but going straight to the source is always a better option. I wanted to know if this fanbase would be in favor of a Weber for Parise swap? I think it would be a solid move for both clubs since we need help on the blueline and (I think) you need help on offense.

Your prospect pool is loaded with talented blueliners, so a move like this wouldn't hurt as much IMO since guys like Franson, Blum, Klein and Ellis (Roussell is another solid prospect as well) are going to be a important part of your blueline for years to come IMO.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 10:02 AM
  #83
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
Devils fans coming in peace.

First off, congrats and your solid run. Secondly, what are the odds that management will sign both Weber and Suter to a LTC's, eating close to 14M$ in cap space for two blueliners.

It's been discussed on the main board but going straight to the source is always a better option. I wanted to know if this fanbase would be in favor of a Weber for Parise swap? I think it would be a solid move for both clubs since we need help on the blueline and (I think) you need help on offense.

Your prospect pool is loaded with talented blueliners, so a move like this wouldn't hurt as much IMO since guys like Franson, Blum, Klein and Ellis (Roussell is another solid prospect as well) are going to be a important part of your blueline for years to come IMO.
I'm good with this move only if we can sign Parise long term, he's recovered from his knee injury and we can re-sign Suter long term after next year. If those three things happen I say let's do it.

glenngineer is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 10:13 AM
  #84
deanwormer
Registered User
 
deanwormer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,002
vCash: 437
Kinda' nice seeing all the possibilities speculated out there; means we have some talent and maybe Poile has the pieces to make a move to fill a gap.

However, seems to me 2 things have to be figured out before we can do anything; 1 - do we get Lombardi back or is he out permanently, and 2 - we get Weber's contract settled. Everything else kinda' works around those things, I think, except buying out Dumont - that seems obvious.

deanwormer is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 10:18 AM
  #85
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Some thoughts in random order...

The same glaring weakness is still glaring at us-- no true 1st line players.

We have a couple of OK 2nd line players, several 2nd/3rd line 'twenners, and the rest.

Scoring 4 goals a game vs the Ducks in the playoffs is the anomaly. The stars had to align for that one (i.e. Tootoo becoming a scoring machine). We will continue to have to scrape out wins, which can only get us so far...

Resigning Suter, Weber, Rinne would be great and all, but that just maintains the status quo.

Getting to the 2nd rd of playoffs was key to growing the game in Nashville. The 'excitement' is in the air, tickets are selling easily, and the Preds have a chance to become a staple. We need front line talent to make the next step, and there is no easy answer to that.

We have to find out what the deal is with Suter and Weber. If either of them looks they may bolt (for money or other reasons), we have to deal them for offense. We can not afford another Hamhuisian lost asset situation. It would be a major step back.

If we can not find front line talent, I feel our offense would be better servered to get a left-handed blast to Weber, as opposed to another make-shift front-line player (Fisher, Lombardi, etc). Someone who can truly impact the PP-- like a Christian Erhoff. This would also give us flexibility if one of Suter/Weber has to be traded.

How are we going to take the next step?
In some regards, I agree... although I think it's foolish to think that Hamhuis was going to bring some king's ransom, even at the deadline. The offer that we were apparently considering was Parent and a second for Hamhuis. For that return, I'm glad we rolled the dice. It also played in that Poile supposedly told Hamhuis that we'd resign him for 4-ish if we made the second round of the playoffs. Have heard that a few times from a few people.

I do worry a little about the long-term "direction" of the team. I know that it seems silly when we make the playoffs year in and year out, and where we made it further than ever, but it seems that our strengths are the same every year, but our weaknesses are also always the same. The problem is that there's nothing really in the pipeline to make you think that will be different at any point soon. We'll have Halischuk and likely Geoffrion full time next year, likely as a replacement for two of Ward, Sullivan or Goc...but what does that do for PP\scoring improvement?

I worry that something we saw in the third period of game 6 is what defines us now, and going forward:

1 man deep, four guys at the blue line, waiting to hopefully capitalize on a Canucks mistake. That's the game our personnel dictates, and it's given us modest success to this point, but at some point, but I think that in order to get past this particular plateau, some changes need to be made to improve the aforementioned weaknesses, likely through some financial and philosophical changes.

Yeah, we can tie up 20 million in 2 defensemen and a goalie, but is that wise, if it means continuing to rely on 2-3 million dollar, 20 goal, 2-way forwards for your primary offensive production?

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 10:42 AM
  #86
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
In some regards, I agree... although I think it's foolish to think that Hamhuis was going to bring some king's ransom, even at the deadline. The offer that we were apparently considering was Parent and a second for Hamhuis. For that return, I'm glad we rolled the dice. It also played in that Poile supposedly told Hamhuis that we'd resign him for 4-ish if we made the second round of the playoffs. Have heard that a few times from a few people.
Personnally, I would have traded Hamhuis at the deadline. He didn't properly fit into our future. He wasn't good enough to play top minutes on this team, and the salary disparity between what Hamhuis would have made and what Blum, Josi, Laakso would have made would have far exceeded the actual on-ice quality gap.

On top of that, he was merely an above average to good player for us. He's not the type of player that, realistically, can propel us a round deeper in the playoffs. And he certainly wasn't the type of player to make us Cup caliber.

So if he's got no future with the team and his present value wouldn't really push us a round deeper into the playoffs, I think you get value for him, even if that value was only a solid prospect and a higher pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Yeah, we can tie up 20 million in 2 defensemen and a goalie, but is that wise, if it means continuing to rely on 2-3 million dollar, 20 goal, 2-way forwards for your primary offensive production?
I agree that the franchise needs to think long and hard about that. But I'm more concerned with us having $25M in cap hit tied up in 6 players who combined for less than 170 total points in 2010 from the forward position. We can't continually miss at the forward position like we have. Sullivan, Lombardi and Dumont, combined, provided 3rd liner production for more than Ovechkin's cap hit. Regardless of how or why that happened, it can't continue if we invest in Rinne, Suter, and Weber. Our margin for error is greater with those players on RFA contracts and 2nd contracts. It is down to almost zero once they get paid like a UFA.

SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 12:16 PM
  #87
lstcyr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
Personnally, I would have traded Hamhuis at the deadline. He didn't properly fit into our future. He wasn't good enough to play top minutes on this team, and the salary disparity between what Hamhuis would have made and what Blum, Josi, Laakso would have made would have far exceeded the actual on-ice quality gap
I think the concern was "do we make the playoffs without Hamhuis? Can we depend upon one of the youngsters to perform well enough?"

Would it be worth trading Hamhuis for the limited return (assuming it was Parent and a second) and miss out on the three playoff games' revenue at home? I don't think so.

lstcyr is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 12:37 PM
  #88
BigFatCat999
I love GoOoOlD
 
BigFatCat999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Oy. http://twitter.com/#!/JoshuaCooper

Pole not sounding confident about Lombardi for next year also.

BigFatCat999 is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 12:43 PM
  #89
SmokeyClause
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Miami, FL
Country: Cuba
Posts: 9,999
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SmokeyClause
Quote:
Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
I think the concern was "do we make the playoffs without Hamhuis? Can we depend upon one of the youngsters to perform well enough?"

Would it be worth trading Hamhuis for the limited return (assuming it was Parent and a second) and miss out on the three playoff games' revenue at home? I don't think so.
You are right that trading Hamhuis and missing out on the playoffs wouldn't be desirable. But how likely was it that the loss of an above average defenseman would cost us a playoff spot?

In the end, as with almost everything, it's risk/reward. The reward of trading Hamhuis isn't likely to be great. But I believe the risk to be minimal. Here's why:

The Predators were roughly 4 points up on 9th place with 20 games remaining (per dropyourgloves.com) and were comfortably ahead in the first tiebreaker. Meaning they would have to cede 5 points. Dan Hamhuis isn't worth 5 points to ANY NHL in an 82 game season, much less over a 20 game span of that season (which would extrapolate out to 20 points over a full season).

I guess Poile could have been paralyzed by fear of making a move and having it backfire (even though I'd wager that it would be almost impossible for us to lose a 5 point advantage simply because of losing Hamhuis). But you could always reverse that argument and say, "why didn't you trade for Kovalchuk if you were afraid of missing out on the playoffs?"

I'm not sure I want my GM to have an irrational fear of failure. And not trading away a #3/4 defenseman on your team for fear of him costing you 5 points in 20 games is completely irrational and actually sounds like a joke as I say it outloud to myself. But, then again, I'd wager to bet that if any GM in the league subscribes to that very risk-averse thinking, it's Poile.


Last edited by SmokeyClause: 05-11-2011 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Softening it up a touch
SmokeyClause is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:10 PM
  #90
BigFatCat999
I love GoOoOlD
 
BigFatCat999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Poile says Fenton talked to Radulov. According to Poile, Radulov said he could get out of his contract.

From Cooper's twitter.

QUIT TEASING US LIKE THAT!!!

BigFatCat999 is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:16 PM
  #91
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Poile says Fenton talked to Radulov. According to Poile, Radulov said he could get out of his contract.

From Cooper's twitter.

QUIT TEASING US LIKE THAT!!!
Wait, who is this? Never heard of him....

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:21 PM
  #92
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,192
vCash: 500
blah blah, we hate radulov.

i'll take him back and buy a jersey, in september. He'd still be our best forward.

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:23 PM
  #93
Viqsi
carrying the flag
 
Viqsi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Scary Internet
Country: United States
Posts: 20,825
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Viqsi
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Wait, who is this? Never heard of him....
Some Russian hotshot who's among the KHL's leading scorers, IIRC.

We've got the rights to Sergei Mozyakin, and he's never coming over either. Best not to think too hard about this Radulov kid.



__________________
Remember - when you're a hockey fan, it's not "reckless driving", it's "good forechecking".
"Viqsi, you are our sweet humanist..." --mt-svk on the CBJ boards

Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Viqsi is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:44 PM
  #94
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,390
vCash: 500
Can someone much smarter than me explain our options with Lombardi if he isn't healthy? I've never really understood the full ramifications of a buyout/LTIR/IR all year/etc. I assume we can't just release him, right?

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:48 PM
  #95
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,192
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Can someone much smarter than me explain our options with Lombardi if he isn't healthy? I've never really understood the full ramifications of a buyout/LTIR/IR all year/etc. I assume we can't just release him, right?
not without buying him out. LTIR doesn't really help us because we don't have cap issues, we have real dollars issues. We can have him not counting against our cap, but we still have to pay him 3.5 per year, whether he plays or not. He could nobly "retire," but why would\should he?

It's a very, very unfortunate situation for us. We have a player that can't play for us, and we have 3.5 million dollars we can't spend elsewhere.

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 01:52 PM
  #96
Top 6 Spaling
Registered User
 
Top 6 Spaling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Smashville
Country: United States
Posts: 10,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
not without buying him out. LTIR doesn't really help us because we don't have cap issues, we have real dollars issues. We can have him not counting against our cap, but we still have to pay him 3.5 per year, whether he plays or not. He could nobly "retire," but why would\should he?

It's a very, very unfortunate situation for us. We have a player that can't play for us, and we have 3.5 million dollars we can't spend elsewhere.
Anybody want a Lombardi + Dumont package

Honestly though, I think our best option is throwing one or both of them into a package with other assests and send them to a rebuilding team. If poile decides that Franson, Wilson, or Ellis do not fit into our future plans here, I see no reason EDM, NYI, etc. wouldn't be willing to take on a LTIR player if it meant picking up a strong prospect.

Top 6 Spaling is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 02:05 PM
  #97
TMI
Mod Supervisor
 
TMI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 44,754
vCash: 500
Tom Callahan is tweeting notes from the post-season presser with Trotz, Poile, Cogan, and briefly Peterson.

Some highlights include:

Trotz and co. getting choked up while talking about it perhaps being Peterson's last season coaching. Peterson joked and said he would be "getting Trotzy's coffee"

DP says Weber would like to be wrapped up before July 1

DP says time will tell with Bouillon and Lombardi, but they have a spot on the depth chart.

Lombardi's contract will be against the cap regardless (we knew that)

Top six forward, either developed or acquired, is on the wish list (obviously)

Trotz likes the strides SK made, but wants him to shoot more.

http://twitter.com/#!/predsradio

TMI is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 03:09 PM
  #98
BigFatCat999
I love GoOoOlD
 
BigFatCat999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Campbell, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Can someone much smarter than me explain our options with Lombardi if he isn't healthy? I've never really understood the full ramifications of a buyout/LTIR/IR all year/etc. I assume we can't just release him, right?
Pure and simple:

LTIR means nothing to Nashville because it only effects the cap situation. Not the cash flow. Thus, a team who maxes the cap all the time: Philly, Toronto, Boston. Can put him of LTIR and they don't have to worry about his cap number. They still have to pay him, but he is not on the cap.

Matthew Lombardi buyout from CapGeek.com
2011-12: $1,166,667
2012-13: $1,166,667
2013-14: $1,166,667
2014-15: $1,166,667

With a buyout of Dumont, that would be 2.5 Million in cash not spent on players.

Retirement can't be forced. Nashville signed a contract and so did Lombardi. It wasn't insured and it bit the Preds in the crotch.

BigFatCat999 is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 03:14 PM
  #99
SK74 Snipes
Registered User
 
SK74 Snipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Franklin,TN
Country: United States
Posts: 405
vCash: 500
Should be an interesting offseason

SK74 Snipes is offline  
Old
05-11-2011, 04:06 PM
  #100
dulzhok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
You are right that trading Hamhuis and missing out on the playoffs wouldn't be desirable. But how likely was it that the loss of an above average defenseman would cost us a playoff spot?
If you go back to the offseason before Hamhuis was UFA (like Suter is now), several people foresaw the Hamhuis "walk" and wanting to capitalize on the assets he could get in return. I think Poile had hopes of re-signing him.

I think a Hamhuis trade would have yielded significant assets in the offseason, especially if packaged Dan Ellis, 1st rd pick, etc. I think a team like Philly would have paid a lot to get at least a year of Hamhuis, Ellis (when his value was decent), and change for *something significant*.

Don't forget that in keeping Hamhuis that year, we also had to let Greg Zanon walk. I feel like that has been one of the worst "easy decisions" that last couple of years. Zanon is one of the best bang-for-the-buck defenseman out there, and would have done wonders in stabilizing our defensive core past Suter and Weber.

The Suter situation is not as easy to predict has Hamhuis. Nashville wants him, but at what cost? If he wants $6.5m a year, I don't think he's worth it. He's a very solid player, but his lack of shot and offense puts him in a class below most other $6-7m dmen. If you look at Lidstorm, he's solid as they come defensively, but also runs a PP like a machine and scores 15 goals a year. Or Pronger, who also has the dominant physicality as well. I feel like Suter should be about $5.5m. I also think he doesn't belong on a good 1st PP, which would take down his point totals considerably.

If we can get a left-handed bomb opposite Weber, I think our PP would improve-- not the best in the league, but maybe average or slightly above average. Weber is the only real weapon we have on the PP and it's too easy for people to plan against that.


Last edited by dulzhok: 05-11-2011 at 04:17 PM.
dulzhok is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.